Shy and mighty

[**Helen**]

Should we suppress shyness or should we embrace it? This is the latest issue in our rants section. Find out what Rosemary is angry about.

[Infinite Part Deux]

Being shy fucking sucks.

There something to be said for maybe being a bit reserved and not obnoxiously loud, but I'm several million miles away from being proud of my awesome ability to clam up in every social situation.

You can be confident and not loud. In fact, most of the loud people I've met are desperately trying to cover up their insecurity and shyness.

I'd give my right ball for a drug that cured shyness. Hear that scientists! My right testicle is yours if you can make me confident.

[Yerascrote]

It's a two way thing. I'm pretty confident and like talking, when I see a shy person I do wonder "why don't they talk up, I'm sure they've got plenty of things to say" but I'm just not in that sort of mindset and they don't have mine so it's hard for us to understand each other. Then again, I never walk up to anyone and say "why you so quiet", bad manners really.

I don't like this though:

If you're shy you should be proud of it and rejoice in the fact that you aren't an irritatingly loud person

Yeh like cos every non-shy person is irritatingly loud?

[Melian]

Originally Posted by Infinite Part Deux

Being shy fucking sucks.

There something to be said for maybe being a bit reserved and not obnoxiously loud, but I'm several million miles away from being proud of my awesome ability to clam up in every social situation.

You can be confident and not loud. In fact, most of the loud people I've met are desperately trying to cover up their insecurity and shyness.

I'd give my right ball for a drug that cured shyness. Hear that scientists! My right testicle is yours if you can make me confident.

Agreed. I'm shy and most of my friends are loud. I always get told off because I don't talk enough.

I never walk up to anyone and say "why you so quiet", bad manners really.

I would personally find this very rude.

[StrubbleS]

Originally Posted by Infinite Part Deux

Being shy fucking sucks.

quoted for truth.

[MrG]

Wise men speak because they have something to say.

Fools speak because they have to say something.




So shy people or slightly reserved people can sometimes and often do suprise people, they sit back and watch things unfold better than others might.

[Infinite Part Deux]

Originally Posted by MrG

Wise men speak because they have something to say.

Fools speak because they have to say something.

So shy people or slightly reserved people can sometimes and often do suprise people, they sit back and watch things unfold better than others might.

Except that 99% of shy people won't be sitting back watching things unfold. They'll be so busy worrying about how they're coming over, should they say something, do people like them that they don't attention to anything happening outside their little bubble.

There's a fallacy that all shy people are quiet and that all quiet people are shy. A confident person is more likely to sit back and let a conversation flow than someone who's terrified of awkward silence and rushes to fill the gaps with bullshit. Ditto being loud. Someone who's secure in themselves doesn't need to make a spectacle, someone who's trying to prove themselves will.

Being shy doesn't somehow elevate you to another plane of conversational insight.

Sorry, no one should be proud of being shy. I'm not. It's the bane of my fucking life.

Now I'm off to bed for a restless night of soul searching because I'm too shy to ask a girl out for a drink. If anyone can point me to the benifits of being shy please do, I'd love to hear them. 'Cos as far as I'm concerned it's an albatross around my neck. A social awkward albatross who can't have normal conversations with people even though he's cool as fuck.

[I'm With Stupid]

I agree with Infinite. Being shy and being quiet are two different things. You can be quiet and confident, but being shy is lacking confidence by definition, and that can't be a good thing.

But I agree with the rant. Lacking confidence isn't a condition that needs curing. There might be certain conditions that manifest themselves in a lack of confidence, but the lack of confidence is just the symptom, not the condition. Confidence is something that can be built up merely by putting yourself in the situation more often, I think. But of course the problem with that is that you have to essentially be able to get through the bit where you're not very good at whatever you're doing (as is often the case with anything you're doing for the first time), and I guess this is where shy people have the problem and avoid doing it rather than putting themselves through it no matter how cringeworthy. But there are a lot of actors and comedians who are famously shy off-stage, for example. But they're confident in their abilities in that particular task, and so they appear outgoing and relaxed. I suspect that a hell of a lot of academics have the same sort of problem when they have to present their research to a room full of people for the first time.

I used to be quite shy as a kid and it was never a positive thing. It would manifest itself in me refusing to do things that I was afraid of failing at, and if I'm honest, even affected me right up until university. That included stuff like asking girls out, competing at sports, speaking in front of class or in a play, even trying out a different haircut in case everyone pointed and laughed. It's actually less about failing, and more about what other people would think of you. I had no problem with failing. I once had a situation where I fancied a girl, knew she fancied me too, and was so bothered about what people would think that I didn't do anything about it. And it was completely irrational, because it's not as if she wasn't a good looking girl either. It's not so much about failing, but other people finding out that you've failed. I think that's why in my university options, I picked the one with the lower requirements as my first choice, and then switched when I got good enough grades. It was close between the two universities (the lower one had a larger practical element that interested me), but I think the requirements just swung it, so that I wouldn't have that disappointment in front of my parents. Then during university, I sort of got over myself and stopped caring what anyone else thought (in a good way).

Ironically now, I probably most quiet with my existing friends. With new groups of people, I'm actually quite sociable, because to some degree I make a conscious effort to talk to new people more. But I'm certainly not nervous in that situation, and don't really care what they think of me.

[T-Kay]

Well. I agree to the fact that shyness shouldn't be classified as a disease or psychological issue unless we're talking about something as grave as social anxiety or other diagnoses like that. Thus the pharmacological company is just trying to make profit under the excuse of "being nice to the world playing the role as the happy fairy making everyone non-shy and extrovert" overnight.

That being said, being shy, or even quiet is nevertheless going to have at least some negative impact in your life. Of course it's good to be able to lean back and not having to make the most of yourself all the time, but there are undeniably situations where you need to be extrovert, ongoing and show initiative, such as when working as a manager in some companies or when applying for a leadership position. I think that shy/quiet people, at least to some extent, have less chances of success in such positions in general and in the long run.

[**Helen**]

Originally Posted by I'm With Stupid

I agree with Infinite. Being shy and being quiet are two different things. You can be quiet and confident, but being shy is lacking confidence by definition, and that can't be a good thing.

But I agree with the rant. Lacking confidence isn't a condition that needs curing. There might be certain conditions that manifest themselves in a lack of confidence, but the lack of confidence is just the symptom, not the condition. Confidence is something that can be built up merely by putting yourself in the situation more often, I think. But of course the problem with that is that you have to essentially be able to get through the bit where you're not very good at whatever you're doing (as is often the case with anything you're doing for the first time), and I guess this is where shy people have the problem and avoid doing it rather than putting themselves through it no matter how cringeworthy. But there are a lot of actors and comedians who are famously shy off-stage, for example. But they're confident in their abilities in that particular task, and so they appear outgoing and relaxed. I suspect that a hell of a lot of academics have the same sort of problem when they have to present their research to a room full of people for the first time.

I used to be quite shy as a kid and it was never a positive thing. It would manifest itself in me refusing to do things that I was afraid of failing at, and if I'm honest, even affected me right up until university. That included stuff like asking girls out, competing at sports, speaking in front of class or in a play, even trying out a different haircut in case everyone pointed and laughed. It's actually less about failing, and more about what other people would think of you. I had no problem with failing. I once had a situation where I fancied a girl, knew she fancied me too, and was so bothered about what people would think that I didn't do anything about it. And it was completely irrational, because it's not as if she wasn't a good looking girl either. It's not so much about failing, but other people finding out that you've failed. I think that's why in my university options, I picked the one with the lower requirements as my first choice, and then switched when I got good enough grades. It was close between the two universities (the lower one had a larger practical element that interested me), but I think the requirements just swung it, so that I wouldn't have that disappointment in front of my parents. Then during university, I sort of got over myself and stopped caring what anyone else thought (in a good way).

Ironically now, I probably most quiet with my existing friends. With new groups of people, I'm actually quite sociable, because to some degree I make a conscious effort to talk to new people more. But I'm certainly not nervous in that situation, and don't really care what they think of me.

Really interesting post.

[ShyBoy]

Have to say I always grit my teeth when I read in 90% of rants "Rosemary is an art student from London who wants to be a journalist.". It's just the cynicism in me that thinks they're writing it for something to put in their portfolio. Over half the public contributed content is from aspiring journos. Anyway.. (I should do my own rant on that )

Have to say I agree and disagree with the rant to differening extents. It isn't a bad thing to be quiet, reserved, to stop and think for an extra moment before you talk. But I think, as IWS said, it is a fear of real situations which you shouldn't have to avoid for your whole life.

How many people refuse to go out to parties if there are people they don't know because they're nervous about all the what ifs. I mean, it even comes through in the rant: "Tests have shown that this drug is more likely to make us approach strangers and give money to charity. Great, so we're going to end up broke and drugged, but at least we'll be sociable."

Stranger danger. So you go through your life, unable to make social connections which are -incredibly- important to your emotional wellbeing, as I know too well. I suffered from bad anxiety where it would manifest itself physically as well. So throwing up, diahrea etc. which is more extreme than a bit of shyness, but its all on the same scale.

It's ironic maybe I'm saying extreme shyness is a bad thing with my name being shyboy, but I think the point I'm really trying to make is that it's ok to be reserved, and think things through. But it's not ok to let the anxiety control you and stop you living your life.

When I see people who give in to it and wont expose themselves to situations, I feel bad for them. And I do turn into the annoying person trying to bring (some) people out of their shells at university. And in 90% of cases, it works. It doesn't mean turning into someone who is loud and obnoxious, because if you're a quiet person - then thats just who you are. But its about having that quiet confidence and ability to fulfill your hopes and goals, and not letting things get in the way. It's incredible how a -tiny- bit of acceptance can help someone feel better about talking about themselves and so on.

Sorry, I might have ranted a bit and missed the point just because of my own experiences . But - if you don't believe in yourself, who will?

edit: also don't like the dig at pharma companies, yes they make money like any other business, but they do it by producing medicines that help people. The fact is people just want something to hate, whether its big corporations, the government, microsoft, they will always be easy targets... nobody ever blames the dodgy mechanic round the corner, or in fact, themselves...

[stargalaxy]

I used to be shy, to the point when it was crippling me. I was absolutely useless in social situations - still am, really. There was honestly no point putting me in a room and expecting me to go talk to people. I simply wasn't capable of doing it. Whenever anyone did come up to me, my immediate instinct was to pull up the defensive shutter and try and get them to piss off as quickly as possible. This usually meant looking away from them and keeping my answers as short as I could. Most people would get the message, but one or two couldn't resist having a pop at me because of this. I was often accused of being rude. I simply didn't have the courage or stamina to try and respond. By that point, I already felt so crap that I simply didn't want to bother anyway.

One example - I certainly remember the reaction when I went to a TheSite meet a few years back now. Several members accused me of the heinous crime of being rude to them. They know who they are. Since then, I've come to realise that shyness is a gift that can be used to my own advantage. It can help me to get out of doing something I don't really want to do. I've also noticed that these same people would accuse me of rudeness regardless of what I did. If I'd told them the truth - that I simply didn't want to be seen dead chatting to these certain individuals. Therefore, their opinions count for nothing. Some would say this is an extreme approach, but it works well for me.

Some would also argue that I couldn't ever be called shy in a month of Sundays. Think what you like, really. People care far too much what others think. If you're perceived as shy, it's not a criminal offence. It can be your greatest asset - you just don't know it yet.

[JavaKrypt]

I get told alot that I'm quiet. And that royally pisses me off. for one main reason, I'm not. With people I know I'm not exactly the loudest in the bunch, but I'm still not the clown in the pack. I do hate it sometimes, but it comes with benifits. People trust me easyier over someone who can't keep their gob shut. People who take the time to get me to open up, (not being bigheadded, just self-aware) that people love me after they get to know me.

However much it makes me kind of depressed for being as shy as I am, I don't let people around me making me out to be someone I'm not. I've changed so many perceptions that people thought of me over the years, and it makes them realise that not everyone who doesn't talk alot, is boring, or just a social outcast.

The point is, I can be open and honest to people, as long as they are open and honest to me. If someone makes the first move to have a conversation, and where it isn't just small talk, then I'd open up, letting them get to know me.

I'm not making much sense right now, I'm about to hit the hay.

[Infinite Part Deux]

How exactly can shyness be your "greatest asset"?

[Hyacinth Girl]

Shyness is in no way an asset. And I agree that lack of confidence should be dealt with, but dunno if being doped really helps that... Some people say I'm confident and not shy, but it's a kind of fake confidence that I can put on to cover my shyness. I'm only really comfortable with a very small group of people that I trust. Sometimes I get so shy I can't bear to talk, and then people think I'm arrogant, which only makes me more shy. I can't say that being shy has ever helped me in any way.

Pretending to be confident and loud, even though I can't always do it, is a million times better than sitting in the corner of a room and being unable to talk.

(I'm horribly jetlagged right now, so I've no idea if what I'm saying is in any way valid.)