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Thread: Horse Racing

  1. #16
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    They did try to improve the course, and i think they may still carry on to improve it, i think its going to be a thing of trial and error, you dont just find a cure for cancer, you cant just find a way to stop the horses getting injured. They are making more changes to the rules, like they said no horses under a certain age and certain things. I dont know to be honest i think there are risks in every sport and it doesnt stop the competitiors.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arctic Roll View Post

    Horses do die at other jump events, they die at Badminton, but they don't have the media coverage so don't have the media hysteria.
    When a human died at Savernake, they removed the offending jump immediately and discontinued the course in following years.
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  3. #18
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    I don't know enough about three-day eventing to have an informed opinion, although according to wikipedia 37 riders have died in the last fifteen years, primarily following falls in the cross country phase of the event.

    Horses also die in flat racing, so removing the jumps of the Grand National wouldn't actually remove the risk either.

    It's a very difficult one. I think it is right to question the safety at the Grand National, two horses dying is two horses too many. Personally, I'd say that the field was too big now, and a smaller field would be much safer by reducing the number of melees.

    But I really don't like the way the loonytunes over at Animal Aid try and claim that the race is some sort of barbaric blood-letting exercise "masquerading as sport". The way they talked about the death of Synchronised, who yes unseated his rider before the event and ran loose, was ridiculous; the horse died after carrying on through the course. I firmly believe that you cannot make a horse, providing it's been treated properly, do anything that it doesn't want to do; you see this from refusals in various events.

    To answer the other question, the speed and size of the horses means that the leg will often shatter on falling. Unlike humans, who can use other limbs to get around, a horse cannot. For a clean fracture you're looking at 6-8 weeks in traction, which can be done. But for more complicated fractures it's difficult to do anything other than euthanise. It's not as though you can put a horse in a wheelchair if it loses function in a leg.
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  4. #19
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    Can you not amputate? Dogs manage on 3 legs. Hell, I've even seen an elephant with a false leg.

  5. #20
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    I don't know, I'm not a vet

    I'd imagine it's very difficult given the size of a horse and how it moves.
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  6. #21
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    Just Googled 3 legged horse and came up with this.



    It's only half a leg, but it's a start.

    There are quite a few on Google images, but they all seem to be below the knee. I haven't seen a picture of a 3 legged horse standing by itself yet though.


  7. #22
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    The important thing to remember is that it depends very much on the nature of the injury, as arctic roll says, horse legs tend to shatter, that can cause a lot of muscle, nerve and blood vessel damage. Furthermore, it's not necessarily in the horse's best interest to wack on a prosthesis. They can't run with that for a start. And lastly, it costs a shit load.
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  8. #23
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    I've read alot of the posts here and don't get what you people mean. You compare horses to people. You don't seem to realise that human athletes have a lot more free will and choice when it comes to their respective sports, that they can discern risks for themselves and that injury doesen't always result in death. People here talk about a horse being made by it's rider to jump and snap it's neck like it's exactly the same thing as some up and coming champ in boxing that gets an awkward punch to the temple. Some people here are even as silly to compare it to smoking and such. You all don't seem to realise that humans have a choice when it comes to such things, horses do not. Horses love to run and thats why normal horse racing doesen't bother me. But can you really compare a horse being made to jump and die straight away, or be put down. to a human that just dreams about their sport, breathes it, trains day and night and usually sign contracts that tell people that they're fine with getting hurt, they just want to compete? Like if a runner in the olympics tripped and broke their leg, would their trainer come out, drag them off into the locker room and put them down? They'd recieve expert care in hopes that they'd run again, when it comes to a horse, people don't give a shit.

  9. #24
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    Horses don't have a choice? Really? You know when the entry list states "refused" as a reason for not finishing? That means the horse has gone "fuck that" and refused to jump the fence. Sounds pretty much like a choice to me. Horses are very clever creatures, you simply cannot make a 8-foot-tall, 500kg animal do something it doesn't want to do.

    As for owners and trainers not giving a shit, go tell it to the owners of the horses this year, both of whom have said it was the same as losing a pet. As with pets, euthanasia is not an easy choice but it is sometimes the most humane choice.

    Any sport has a risk, all we can do is minimise that risk. Take motor racing; the HANS device now stops drivers who crash getting basal skull fractures (which is what killed both Ratzenberger and Senna in 1994, for instance) but it doesn't protect them if they fly into the catch fencing pillar (which is what killed Wheldon last year). Marshalls, who are not even competing in the sport, have been killed, for instance in the Australian GP in 2001. Should we ban motor racing?
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  10. #25
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    Well, I don't like motor racing because it seems like an offensive extravagance, but I do love the builders points, what a brilliant thing for an engineer to do. Not just does your aerofoil work, but it works better than aerofoils built by the best in their field. Wicked.

    Again, Powdongprime, it's just manners to put some paragraphs into your posts. I won't wrestle with your bullshit blocks of text because you're lazy/inconsiderate.
    "We're Starfleet officers, weird is part of the job." (Capt. Janeway)

  11. #26
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    You don't realise that the animal doesen't have a choice because it doesen't understand the risks, or even comprehend the situation at hand. My point is that an athlete would have signed a contract knowing full well the risks, and an animal thats been trained to do what it's being made to do since a very early age doesen't. Just because a horse is doing what it's made to doesen't mean it wants to, and even then it doesen't understand that it can easily die at any jump. As for the trainers not giving a shit, first of all, it'd be very bad for their reputation etc. to just say "nope, i'm more interested in the money". Would you enter a pet you loved dearly into a sport in which there was a very high chance that it could die? Especially seeing as it wasn't the animals choice in the first place. Again you start talking about human casualties in sports...I don't care if some idiot decides to go into a sport knowing there's a high chance he'll die, signs a contract full knowing well he could die, not being discouraged, and then dying. That was his or her choice. If people want to compete in sports and die, i don't care, in fact i love quite a few dangerous sports. I found it a bit annoying when i hear people try to justify this sort of stuff though...Especially when they make it out like the animals just signed a contract.

  12. #27
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    Just to make it clear, you can't say that a horse is intelligent on a cognitive level to ours, thats just silly. Yes they're intelligent, yes they get spooked and don't run, this results in people going "well i suppose they've made their decision". What you lot don't understand, is that they don't have the compacity to make such a decision. If people said that they just did this to animals for the money and entertainment, i'd think they were a bit sick, but i'd admire their balls for just admitting it. This whole silly idea that they know what they're doing annoys me a bit though.

  13. #28
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    I don't ask you to. If i'm lazy and inconsiderate...Then why do i bother raising an opinion in the first place? I'm not claiming to be a moral authority, i'm just trying to debate. If you can't 'wrestle with my bullshit blocks', then fuck off and don't bother with me. I don't need your opinion if you want me to jump through hoops for it.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powdongprime View Post
    I don't ask you to. If i'm lazy and inconsiderate...Then why do i bother raising an opinion in the first place? I'm not claiming to be a moral authority, i'm just trying to debate. If you can't 'wrestle with my bullshit blocks', then fuck off and don't bother with me. I don't need your opinion if you want me to jump through hoops for it.
    Lol. Someone needs to take a time out I think.

    On Horse Racing: I'm no authority, but my dad helped train racing horses when he was young and I've been round horses a fair bit. Nobody has really hit on one of the crueller aspects of horse racing: the age at which training starts. It's when the horse is still developing, so that its bones can warp and mould to be the most agile for racing. This can and does cause crippling problems for the horse.

    As for the refusals etc. and wanting to run... you have to look at horse psychology. Horses are herd animals, and their defence mechanism from predators is running the hell away. They instinctively will run, just the same as dogs instinctively bark at every single thing. In a race though it's not like the horse is doing it for shits and giggles. It's been trained from its teenage years (after being broken in much younger than a typical horse) to run races, and it will run at the behest of the rider because of the power relationship. The reason they call it 'breaking in' is because they break the horses spirit in a way, until they no longer resist.

    However horses remain skittish a lot of the time and so may refuse because they just don't have the balls to jump it. The whole excitement in the sport though is derived from taking this anxious animal by nature, riding atop it and throwing it at an incredibly demanding and tough course. Only the strong survive as it were.
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  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powdongprime View Post
    Just to make it clear, you can't say that a horse is intelligent on a cognitive level to ours, thats just silly. Yes they're intelligent, yes they get spooked and don't run, this results in people going "well i suppose they've made their decision". What you lot don't understand, is that they don't have the compacity to make such a decision. If people said that they just did this to animals for the money and entertainment, i'd think they were a bit sick, but i'd admire their balls for just admitting it. This whole silly idea that they know what they're doing annoys me a bit though.
    It depends what you mean by intelligence, doesn't it. Horses have an understanding of risk, like all animals do, and to say they don't is just stupid. Whether that's the same as a human understanding of risk, I don't know, I'm not a horse. But they're not some dumb animal blindly padding along wherever their rider takes them.

    As for the last bit, "[racing horses] for money and entertainment" being "sick", I think you show your own position fairly clearly. There's nothing cruel about racing horses, there's nothing cruel about euthanising horses that are so badly injured that they'll never have a good standard of living again. And, even more to the point, anyone who complains about horse racing being "sick" whilst eating meat, or wearing leather shoes, needs to have a good long look at themselves in the mirror. If these people really gave a toss about animal welfare they'd stop eating animals before worrying about horse racing.

    Also, learn to paragraph properly. It's called etiquette.
    Can you hold me like you held someone you shouldn't have let go?
    Can you keep me deep inside like the regrets that burned a hole?
    Can you love me like you loved someone you loved so long ago?

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