My best friend believes I'm going to burn in hell

[StupidGirl]

That got your attention didn't it?

OK, apologies for the length of this post, but something my best mate and I have discussed today is really bothering me and I wanted the opinions of people who didn't know her (as I think this would cause them to judge her and change their opinions of her).

Basically, my friend is a Jehovah's Witness and I'm not. I'm no religion at all. I'm open-minded, I have been to her meetings and assemblies because I'm curious, but have never had any desire to become a Witness myself. I also have a basic knowledge of the beliefs behind being a Jehovah's Witness - which is that when Amargeddon comes, those that submit to God's will will be saved and enter into a new and righteous world, and those that don't (i.e. non-Witnesses) will be destroyed. Anyway, this has never really come up between me and my friend as we tend not to discuss her religion in great depth - but today, following hearing about the news about the blasts in London, I received this email from her.

"I know this is bad timing, but I've got to send you this. I know you are work, but I need to explain something to you, only because you are the greatest person I know, and because I couldn't not show you.

I know I told you a while ago that if you ever wanted to know anything about what I believed, to just ask. But I need to get this off my chest as it's something I've been thinking about for years. You know how much I respect you, and I would never impose what I believe on you as I 100% believe in free choice… but here it is.

Based on everything the bible says, we are living in the last days of this system. When Jehovah God created The Garden of Eden, it was a paradise and that was the way it was meant to be forever, but because Adam and Eve sinned, things changed and have gradually become as they are today. Back in Eden, Jehovah promised that the earth would become a paradise again. Leading up to the fulfilment of his promise, there were things there would be a great acceleration in the badness in the earth which has been happening since 1914. Now I look around and see terrorism, earthquakes, famine, things have never been worse.

I believe that soon things are going to come to a head in Armageddon, and that there will be a sorting of people. That doesn't just mean only true Christians will get through to the paradise, as there are so many people that have not been given an opportunity, people who are good hearted… it's too hard to explain right now.

I could go on for so long about facts, accurate prophesies, but the bottom line is that you are my best friend and although I would not feel any different about you whatever you do, I can't look around me, knowing what I know, and not say anything to you."

She then posted a link to a Jehovah's Witness website - http://www.watchtower.org/library/dg/article_09.htm for those of you interested - which went into more detail about what the future held for non-believers.

Obviously I was a bit thrown and didn't know what to say, but just responded along these lines...

"I don’t quite understand exactly what you’re telling me. I think I have some idea – I’m guessing you’re just warning me that because I’m not a Jehovah’s Witness I’m in line to suffer all this stuff on the website, and I know you are doing that out of the goodness of your heart so of course I’m not mad at you. I’m not going to argue with you, or ask you to prove anything, I will just accept that you felt you should tell me and thank you for doing what you thought was right and in my best interests."

She wrote back that she wasn't saying I was in line to suffer, and that she wasn't trying to push her views on me, only that she felt she had to explain this stuff to me but couldn't find the right words. So, I replied again...

"I know you’re not saying that directly – and I promise I’m not angry or upset, you believe what you believe and just as you don’t judge me, I don’t judge you. But I think deep down that that is what you’re telling me – and that’s why it’s so hard for you to say, because you’re my friend, and your beliefs are conflicting with how you feel about me as a person. Try not to wrestle with it too much mate. I’ve taken on board what you’ve said – I do understand what you believe and why you felt you had to tell me – and I don’t feel like you’re pushing anything on me. I know that might not be the response you want but it’s all I feel I can really reply to you. I promise I’m not angry and this won’t change how good friends we are."

Anyway. That's probably an unnecessary amount of detail for me to go into, and the outcome of it all is (on the surface anyway) that we will stay friends who just have different belief systems. The problem is though that no matter how hard I try not to let it, it's playing on my mind. How can I possibly be friends with someone who believes that no matter how good a person I am, how true a friend I am to her - because I'm not of the same religion as her I am in effect going to be destroyed with the rest of Satan's world when Armageddon comes? I'm not making fun of this - far from it. I am just at a loss as to where to go from here and how I feel. Has anyone else had any similar experiences, or can anyone empathise? Would you be able to remain best friends who believed something like that about you?

[tittletattle]

i think to be honest id be a little annoyed at her for that. to me it seems shes pushing her views on you and then just as an afterthought adding that shes not pushing her views on you which doesnt really make much sense.

i cant really offer any advice on the matter im afraid just thought id reply after reading your (ever so long) post!

hope ur friendship stays ok!

[satehen]

Your friend is a little extreme! You should tell her you have a right to your own beliefs and not to be force fed hers.

[Teh_Gerbil]

Your freind has strong beleif - good for her. But beleif is choice. She has no right to try to push her beleif upon you just because the world is a tad fucked up at the moment.

Tell her you understand her concern, etc etc, but you wish to remain not chosing any given faith.Tell her you respect her choice, and wish her to respect yours.

[Kermit]

I don't think she was being that forceful. She believes something strongly, and was (badly) trying to persuade you that she's right.

I do it with my mates all the time about politics.

[piccolo]

I have some similar experience, both as a non-Christian with Christian friends and later as a gay Christian. PM me if you want to chat. The best advice I can give you is to be open to listening to her but try to make her see that her form of evangelism is oppressive and isn't having an impact on you.

[Halloween]

Load of shite in my opinion. But different strokes and all that. Personally I wouldn't bother with her. Sure, it's her opinion that you're going to burn in hell, doesn't make it true. I love the star wars-esque illustrations showing : Soon, at Armageddon, those who do not submit to God's rule will be cut off. Those who do submit will survive into a righteous new world

:rolleyes:

My friend Nadine's best friend told her the same, you're going to burn in hell because you're gay. Fucking religious shit stirrers. Some just can't leave people alone without condemning us all to hell. Even when I just want to buy some fucking apples from the stall right behind where they're standing waving their 60 foot billboards. :mad:

Anyway....if she's upset you then you should maybe consider cutting off contact. Let her know she has annoyed you, tell her that your friendship was void of religious banter for good reason.

[Ballerina]

tbh i think religion does more bad than good these days

[satehen]

Heres me thinking Christianity was about being tolerant and respectful, not trying to convince people theyre going to Hell, if they don't believe the same things. I'm a protestent, but i respect other peoples religions, i believe all routes lead to God (well except for satanism) lol.

[Ballerina]

im christian, well ive been christened and i went to a CofE primary school - but im not religious. I guess all those years of praying and singing hymns put me off...it just got annoying in the end because i remembered when i tried praying it never worked....i used to pray for it to rain every p.e day cause i hated it so much lol.

[Pink_Angel]

Basically what you friend is saying is that she really cares about you and doesn't want to lose you, theres nothing wrong with that, in fact i think it is really nice. But I am not a religious type either and find the scare tactics rather bemusing, I guess this is just how they are taught and encouraged to believe in these things. But I think the following is utter rubbish...

there would be a great acceleration in the badness in the earth which has been happening since 1914. Now I look around and see terrorism, earthquakes, famine, things have never been worse.


Now earthquakes are a natural part of the earth there have always been earthquakes, there has not been an increase of earthquakes since 1914 http://www.eresonant.com/pages/earthquakes/quake-history.html

Terrorism I would suggest is a relatively new term to describe hostile attacks these types of attacks have regularly happened throughout history in wars etc.

Famine I beleive has also been around long before 1914.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/timelines/britain/vic_irish_famine.shtml
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/timelines/britain/mid_great_famine.shtml

I know this isn't really the point of the topic but it just makes me angry that people are led to believe rubbish and this is what their beliefs are built on. I hope I am not offending anyone on here, that is not my intention...so sorry to anyone I may have offended!

[morrocan roll]

I'm a protestent, i believe all routes lead to God .
the bible says the road leading to life is cramped and narrow ...there is only one road ...so your a protestant christian who goes against what the bible says ...just like the catholic lot.
i'll have to brush up on what the JW's believe ...

[Halloween]

the bible says the road leading to life is cramped and narrow ...there is only one road ...so your a protestant christian who goes against what the bible says ...just like the catholic lot.


What's that mean, that the bible says there's only one route to God? That sucks ass. I won't be seeing my missus when I pop my cork then :(

[Deep Fathom]

if you believe in no religion at all, you are an aethist, but i dont know the name of what you're proposing

[satehen]

the bible says the road leading to life is cramped and narrow ...there is only one road ...so your a protestant christian who goes against what the bible says ...just like the catholic lot.
i'll have to brush up on what the JW's believe ...


I have my own take on religion that does not strictly follow any organised religion, but i identify mostly with protestantism.

[Carriage Return]

I may be wrong, but your friend may have an ulterior motive.

My recollection is that the Witnesses take their Bible pretty literally, and Revelations puts a limit on the amount of people going into heaven (248832 ?)

It is my understanding that the Witnesses, in effect, believe that entrance into the Kingdom of God is a pyramid scheme based on the number of people you convert.

My parents used to employn a Witness as domestic help, so i looked into it a little - many yeas ago

[Kermit]

if you believe in no religion at all, you are an aethist

No you are not.

You're an agnostic.

[morrocan roll]

I may be wrong, but your friend may have an ulterior motive.

My recollection is that the Witnesses take their Bible pretty literally, and Revelations puts a limit on the amount of people going into heaven (248832 ?)

It is my understanding that the Witnesses, in effect, believe that entrance into the Kingdom of God is a pyramid scheme based on the number of people you convert.

My parents used to employn a Witness as domestic help, so i looked into it a little - many yeas ago
been doing some checking ...they believe that 144,000 men will go to heaven to rule over the earth as kings ...in gods kingdom.
after armagedon their are millions of survivors that no man can number ...their task is then to turn the earth into a paradise ...the dead are ressurected to live on this paradise earth.
they do not believe they can convert anyone ...they can teach you but then it's up to you and god ...sounds quite fascinating to be honest!
basicly mans misrule of the earth is to come to an end ...god has to intervene before we cpmpletely screw up ...we are then ruled directly from a government in heaven ...

[xfalling_to_piecesx]

no offense but she sounds a little wacked to me...

[StupidGirl]

It's been really interesting hearing all your opinions on this...it is quite an interesting subject which is what led me to go to her meetings and assemblies in the past (I have also been to Catholic services out of curiosity too, very bizarre to see the different rituals and beliefs my friends take part in and hold).
Anyway...the conclusion I've come to is that my friend believes what she believes because she has been brought up with it and is convinced it is all true. The Jehovah's Witnesses seem to rely very much on what they call "facts" - I have tried arguing with some of them on certain points before but it's pointless as they have water-tight reasons, quotes and said "facts" to back everything up with and if you're not all that clued-up (as I'm not) you are fighting a losing battle. The way I see it is, I don't want to be a Witness and that's the bottom line. So all I can do is accept that my friend is the way she is and be glad that she cares enough about me to try and "save" me by telling me what she honestly believes will happen to me. Like I said in my email to her, I can accept that she feels she's doing what is right and in my best interests and what is wrong with that? I don't see it as her being "wacked" - for all I know, she is absolutely correct and I WILL end up suffering the torments of hell for not submitting to Jehovah's will! But at the end of the day I've made my choice and she's made hers - all she has done is tried to express the reasons behind her choice to me a bit more clearly because she is concerned about me. I really don't think I can do anything other than accept that and try not to let it bother me.

[morrocan roll]

I WILL end up suffering the torments of hell .
the word hell means the common grave of mankind.
the hell of torment is a catholic invention.

[n00b1e]

fuck the jehova's witnesses they're all cunts anyway

[StupidGirl]

That's a very constructive post, thank you :rolleyes:

[morrocan roll]

they're all cunts anyway
you know ALL of them ...i'm impressed.

[funkyhouseboy11]

Is there a name for being undecided? It pisses me off. I was brought up a catholic. Done all the usual, confession, communion confirmation etc, and never understood a bloody thing. Now that I'm old enough I feel I need to form a decision. I'd hate to be told I have 3 days to live and not have decided what I beleive. It bloody scares me! I mean I'd be anything, I'm not just going to be a catholic 'cos I was brought up one. It would be really useful to have a website where it asked 50 questions and at the end told you what you were best matched too. Could be an idea for some religious techno folks out there? :chin:

[Museman]

Sorry to sound harsh, but JWs teach false doctrines. They take the bible far too literally and it is a load of rubbish. For example, there is some ridiculous thing about there only being a specific number of people (144,000 sticks in my mind, but that might be wrong) who can go to the 'good place'. It's cobblers, and whatsmore I've only ever met pushy ones (and I've met quite a lot). Don't buy into it.

I had peers at school who had been absolutely brainwashed by it. One lad would be locked in his house by his parents over school holidays so they couldn't broaden their horizons. An isolated example, but the whole thing is about brainwashing.

Check this link out, for example: Responses to a JW (http://www.carm.org/jw/jwresponse.htm)

Also check out the links under the 'Problems in the watchtower organisation' heading- HERE (http://www.carm.org/witnesses.htm)

The armageddon stuff is, frankly, hilarious.

I suggest you show these links to your friend too. A lot of JWs have been brainwashed to the extent that they have know idea that they speak of falsehoods. I personally find their bogus output, in the form of the Watchtower, absolutely repulsive.

[junker]

Is there a name for being undecided? It pisses me off. I was brought up a catholic. Done all the usual, confession, communion confirmation etc, and never understood a bloody thing. Now that I'm old enough I feel I need to form a decision. I'd hate to be told I have 3 days to live and not have decided what I beleive. It bloody scares me! I mean I'd be anything, I'm not just going to be a catholic 'cos I was brought up one. It would be really useful to have a website where it asked 50 questions and at the end told you what you were best matched too. Could be an idea for some religious techno folks out there? :chin:

As Kermit said, a name for the undecided or skeptical is an agnostic. Another descriptor would be a pagan.

An atheist is someone who completely disbands the idea of a God. Doesn't belive in a God and denies all possible existance of one.

I do believe religion on a large scale is corrupted and, of course, has multiple interpretations. It's the perversion of men that has ultimately made religion a hypocrisy.

[morrocan roll]

For example, there is some ridiculous thing about there only being a specific number of people (144,000 sticks in my mind, but that might be wrong) who can go to the 'good place'. It's cobblers
.
i have only recently come across this myself but ...it has nothing to do with 'the good place'.
it says 144'000 men will rule over the earth from heaven when ...the dead in all the burial tombs and those buried under the seas ...are resurected back to life on this earth.
remember ...the meek shall inherit the earth?
seeing as resurection is the cornerstone of christian belief then surely this bible information goes along nicely with the rest of it all?
the bible doesn't actualy teach that we all end up playing harps on cloud nine ...it teaches that god will have to step in to stop us bringing to ruin the entire planet ...then under the direction of that 1444,000 we rebuild and start again.
revelation 11:18

[sexpod]

Your friend has problems only if you believe in hell will you go "there." Originally it wasnt part of Christianity, but was adopted in Judaisim through Zoroastranism. Tell her to get lost and shove it.

[Museman]

i have only recently come across this myself but ...it has nothing to do with 'the good place'.
it says 144'000 men will rule over the earth from heaven when ...the dead in all the burial tombs and those buried under the seas ...are resurected back to life on this earth.
remember ...the meek shall inherit the earth?
seeing as resurection is the cornerstone of christian belief then surely this bible information goes along nicely with the rest of it all?
the bible doesn't actualy teach that we all end up playing harps on cloud nine ...it teaches that god will have to step in to stop us bringing to ruin the entire planet ...then under the direction of that 1444,000 we rebuild and start again.
revelation 11:18

I haven't looked at any theology for a long time, but I remember thinking that this part had been taken out of context. I'd have to have a look at it again.

The damning criticisms, nae complete discreditation of their beliefs contained in the links I posted above say it all, I think. They're absolute jokers.

What I also dislike about them, as displayed in this instance, is that they indulge in scaremongering tactics. That is no way to convert/recruit someone. You should believe through faith, not through fear.

[StupidGirl]

Yeah, I agree with that. I would like to show my friend the links you posted Museman (which I've been reading all day and found v interesting, cheers) but I really don't want to make things even more awkward between us, plus she is having a hard time at the moment with some other stuff so it's not really a good time. I might buy one of the books by that guy who left the WatchTower Governing Body though, Ray Franz I think his name was, and just leave it lying around my room next time she comes down :chin: I'd rather try a subtle way of getting an alternative view across rather than just telling her to "get lost and shove it".

[Museman]

You might like to try this book, it is informative and also cheap!!

Ron Rhodes' 10 things (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0736905359/qid%3D1121778888/202-6363223-4823022#product-details)

[StupidGirl]

Nice one, thanks. I notice that you can buy it with the one I was thinking of, "Crises of Conscience", for £12, so might get the two together.

[witchhunt]

Heh, you probably deserve to burn in hell.

Maybe that's why she said it!!!!!

[Museman]

So, two posts on thesite witchhunt, and they are as follows:

"Heh, you probably deserve to burn in hell.

Maybe that's why she said it!!!!!"

And....

"A boner is an erection, doofus.

Who the shit doesn't know that?"


Well done. A grand entrance. Now get lost.

Edited- Oh, and as soon as I post this, your post count goes up to 3, this time, in another thread......

"Keep it to yourself, doofus.


Die then, fucknut.


Why do you ignore the advice of people you care about? You fucking retard.


Pfft, no one fucking cares if you "feel down". "

[StupidGirl]

Obviously a troll. Ignore it.

[Franki]

Obviously a troll. Ignore it.
It's been banned now anyway.