Coke come down

[GINGA]

Okay quick question. I have been craving coke for a while now and have decided I better get round to trying it before I'm in the middle of my exams. Before taking anything I always try and get as much information about the drug before hand. Anyway, I was wondering what is the come down like and how long are its effects on average?

[DanJ]

It varies on how much you take, the strength of the coke and if you take it with anything else.

My very first time I did a lot and I mean, a lot - I ended up in bed really ill for 2 days.

Since then it's just like having a hangover from booze for me and sometimes barely even that.

[Martin_Bashir]

be careful, if you have a craving for coke now i really do wonder what you will think after you have tried it.

one of the problems with cocaine actually is that many people (although not all) find that they can develop usage patterns which do not result in amazingly profound or undesireable comedown symptoms in the same sense as, say E. This means its use isnt as restricted and you can end up using it more often for this reason.

Just remember that you are doing this as an experiment...a long term coke habit is easy to pick up and VERY hard to put down.

[GINGA]

My very first time I did a lot and I mean, a lot - I ended up in bed really ill for 2 days.

Damn thats bad, I tend to be very conservative on my first doses of something new so I hope that won't be a problem.


Just remember that you are doing this as an experiment...a long term coke habit is easy to pick up and VERY hard to put down.

I dont actually know anyone who has tried coke and not done it again. Im going to have a long think about this, with exams and all it may not be the right time to experiment. Thanks for both of your help.

[Mushy24]

I haven't done it for years but when I did - I would get sick (stuffy nose, sore throat etc.) every morning after. I have to agree with some of the other posters - it's a very easy habit to pick up and if you do - it's very difficult to stop! Just be careful - as with many other drugs you absolutely can OD (even on the first time), I don't want to sound like a "mommy type" but I would stay away from it if I were you.......but I don't want to tell you what to do, so if you do decide to use it - Just be careful.

[Skive]

Coke can give me stinking headache sometimes.

[Martin_Bashir]

I dont actually know anyone who has tried coke and not done it again. Im going to have a long think about this, with exams and all it may not be the right time to experiment. Thanks for both of your help.

then you hould consider this very carefully. coke can wait, your exams wont. if you are mixing in circles where regular coke use is going on then you really are at risk of becoming part of that practice. Just because they've done it 'again' does not mean of course 'regularly', but im sure it wont take long for you to find out who's dabbling on friday night and who's using more regularly.

Coke is extremely expensive, not a student drug. If i were you i would do alot more reviewing of both your situation in the immediate sense and also alot more thinking about who is caining what in the groups you mix with.

[Yerascrote]

never done it on it's own so haven't got a clue but when i mixed it with yokes it gave me a sore head yes...

[Spliffie]

one of the problems with cocaine actually is that it does not have an amazingly profound comedown in the same sense as, say E. This means its use isnt as restricted and you can end up using it more often for this reason.


Not true. Comedowns from cocaine are comparable to E in most respects.

[Martin_Bashir]

no not really it isnt. Cocaine's effect on the body and brain differ from E, as many comedown experiences from E stem from exhaustion due to exhertion while under the influence. This can be combined with a state of serotonin depletion in the brain which is commonly thought to be a primary factor in enacting the temporary depressive states many exhibit after E.

Consumption of large amounts of cocaine, particularly by non-regular users and by those with low tolerance can result in a 'comedown' phase which includes depression and paranoia but the physiological reasons for this are quite different.

What i accept i did not make clear and i failed to mention was that the after effects of cocaine are far more dose specific for many people than E.

I stand by my original implication however that cocaine has the potential for greater abuse in many differing usage patterns because of the ability of the user to take at a gratifying doseage level that will not bring on amazingly profound comedowns similar to E. This is of course dependant upon the psychological and physical predispositions of the user, but simply in preferrence terms many recreational users of cocaine state that their use is precipitated by a disillusionment with other narcotics such as E, for its greater potential to induce the symptoms described above.

This is only an expression of opinion and does not reflect any valid harm comparison between the two but it does acknowledge the differing physiological effects and usage patterns inherent in each substance.

(in light of this i have edited my previous post, i hope it is more clear now. I really should have picked that up in the first place because i can quite see how it could be misleading)

[junker]

I've done coke once and never touched it again. Such a waste of time. It felt like a strong cigarette buzz for about 5-10 minutes then I felt extremely bored. I did 2 1/2 lines (someone couldn't finish their second so I took the other half).

I'll never understand how anyone could ever become addicted to that pointless drug.

[badboy4life]

you cant of had good coke

[Skive]

you cant of had good coke

Still even with great coke it's not a very strong buzz as such. Crack is much better.

[Martin_Bashir]

poppers in a fag? crack? you just love winding people dont you sunshine :D

[Skive]

poppers in a fag? crack? you just love winding people dont you sunshine :D

I'm not winding anyone up mate.

[Spliffie]

no not really it isnt. Cocaine's effect on the body and brain differ from E, as many comedown experiences from E stem from exhaustion due to exhertion while under the influence. This can be combined with a state of serotonin depletion in the brain which is commonly thought to be a primary factor in enacting the temporary depressive states many exhibit after E.

Consumption of large amounts of cocaine, particularly by non-regular users and by those with low tolerance can result in a 'comedown' phase which includes depression and paranoia but the physiological reasons for this are quite different.

What i accept i did not make clear and i failed to mention was that the after effects of cocaine are far more dose specific for many people than E.

I stand by my original implication however that cocaine has the potential for greater abuse in many differing usage patterns because of the ability of the user to take at a gratifying doseage level that will not bring on amazingly profound comedowns similar to E. This is of course dependant upon the psychological and physical predispositions of the user, but simply in preferrence terms many recreational users of cocaine state that their use is precipitated by a disillusionment with other narcotics such as E, for its greater potential to induce the symptoms described above.

This is only an expression of opinion and does not reflect any valid harm comparison between the two but it does acknowledge the differing physiological effects and usage patterns inherent in each substance.

(in light of this i have edited my previous post, i hope it is more clear now. I really should have picked that up in the first place because i can quite see how it could be misleading)

Ok...there are pyschological/scientific/biological differences in terms of effect and comedown...i was just pointing out that the comedown from cocaine is comparable to E - in the sense of depression, lethargy etc.

Although cocaine is obviously an addictive drug...the prices restrict use for most people, whereas with pills, at £2 a pop, finances aren't really that much of an issue...

To say cocaine has less of a comedown than E isn't true...I had about 7/9 pills last night, and while the comedown is unpleasant, i've had worse from cocaine. That said, they were pretty weak pills.

Also with pills...there is an added risk with fucking your head up in pyschedelic sense, i'm sure a lot of us have experienced some very weird pyschedelic effects.

Both drugs will run you down badly.

[Martin_Bashir]

im not winding anyone up mate

i know i was being ironic :D or a smart cunt...or both :D

fucking west brom drew today man, we're back in the bottom 3

Spliffie: I am not saying coke does not have a comedown, and yes price does restrict use for most people, this is what i was getting at when i was talking about usage patterns.

You have stated that you have experienced worse comedowns from coke than a considerable amount of pills (although you didnt specify how much coke and what else you took with it). Cocaine stimulates production of dopamine and temporarily prevents reuptake, which then results in accelerated reuptake which causes a comedown. Because this differs from the effect of serotonin which E has, it is reasonable to state that not everyone will agree with you. Physiological differences may mean for you, a coke comedown is worse than most of the E comedowns you have experienced, however this wont be true for everyone.

One of the reasons for the rise of cocaine use over the last 5-6 years has been the fall away of E. There is not the massive E culture that there was in 1995, or even in 1998. Cocaine has not replaced this in the same model, although some do favour it over E because it is easier to dose and prevent prolonged comedowns, rather it has rememerged for many at least as something for the weekend and special occasions (like a bottle of champagne).

Cocaine's use has left a great number of people percieving it on occasion as less harmful and harsh on the comedown than pills. Just because it may produce comparable effects in experience does not mean that these come about via the same means or physiological processes. They are comparable by relative and subjective experience only, much like people describe pain in relation to other painful experiences.

At the moment the bottom line seems to be that there are a large group of people flirting with a potentially extremely addictive drug that has different barriers to use than E. Where for many E use could not be sustained over long periods regularly (talking about every day or a considerable number of times a week), cocaine's barriers to use are financial. What stops people munching beans everyday will not neccessarliy do for coke, if you had the money and disposition it is demonstrably far more habit forming than E.

[GINGA]

For me there is no pressure from my group of friends, those who do coke keep it very quite, they probably don't know I know they do it. I'd say the pressure for me is from inside the more I read about it, the more i see it as less harmful as i first percieved it. The only catch for is how addictive it is.

[Martin_Bashir]

this is the big mistake with drug education in this country. When you start educating yourself and finding out that not everyone who touches drugs dies, ends up in prison or as a junky, you start (or at least i did) to think that certain things arent as harmful as you first thought.

Just remember that 'Cocaine KILLS' is not as snappy a headline as 'Cocaine has addictive properties, is a coagulant and thickens the blood but also increases heart rate and pulpitations. If you have an undiagonsed heart problem you dont know about or a history of cardio-vascular illness in the family then its probably best that you dont engage in taking cocaine because this is the instant in which it may actually kill you in the immediate sense.

Cocaine's major problem is that it is so very geared toward repeated use. Whereas E or cannabis to a certain degree can be experienced through the consumption of one joint or one pill (or dose if you like) cocaine lends itself to repeated use even on your first session. You do a line, 30 mins later you're back to square one and if you've got a gram on you then you are going to do that again because, its face it, no one (or very few people i should say) is really going to consider 30mins a decent experience.

You say you wont have problems with peer pressure mate, but the problem with your logic here is that you arent in those circles yet (you even went as far as to say you dont think they know that you have knowledge of their use) so how could you possibly know. Peer pressure is a buzz word and it doesnt mean 'Oh go on have another you know you want to' it is the simple and reasonable situation in which someone says 'Im gonna get a bag in, do you want in on it'. The point is if you are moving in circle where use of this drug is widespread then the contact points and potential times for use are going to increase. The same could be said of Marijuana except you are increasing contact with a considerably more addictive, harmful, habit forming and frankly illegal substance.

Im not sure how old you are but it you are under 17 and you get caught with it, you are in quite serious trouble and more so than if you had a few E's on you. You might (or might not) get off with a caution but they wont be so dismissive when they ask you where it came from and you say 'No comment', a 16-17 year old with a bag of coke and they will want to know where it came from.

If you are doing your exams now, at least leave it alone until after. take care of yourself mate.

[Girl_gunner]

Depends on you really, one of my mates tried and prolly around a month and now each time we go out shes got to get some. Ain't good for her.

[Martin_Bashir]

well it certainly does depend alot on the individual, but cocaine is particularly bad one for dependancy.

Oh and for your freind who gets it every time she goes out of it she might want to know of what it is thought cocaine does with repeated use and how it changes the brain of the user.

Cocaine use changes the production of reward sensations and dopamine, research suggests that this (see it here (http://cocaine.org/addiction/) ) effect can over time reduce the production of reward sensation for things like food, excercise and even sex. This suggests that addiction develops as the brain loses interest in other things and concentrates on cocaine and also frighteningly it is suggested that single exposure to cocaine creates a week-long 'Window' of receptivity to the drug.

This is the really scarey stuff about cocaine....apart from the people who are importing and distributing it...remember kids, every bag of coke down the line goes to fund mass murder and horrible civil war. From the streets of England to the jungles of Peru, for every Cha-Ching theres a bigger ka-boom.

[Skive]

A coke or crack comedown leaves me clucking for more where as a com edown from pills doesn't leave me wanting more pills.

It is far easier to abuse coke or crack.

[chax]

I have been craving coke for a while now and have decided I better get round to trying it before I'm in the middle of my exams.

I really wouldn't reccomend it. The problem with coke is that once you've done it a couple of times it's very difficult to say no to when you have the opportunity to do it again. Assuming you're a student I can tell you from personal experience that even a very occasional habit can skew your finances in a big way. Anyway it really isn't that mind blowing or exiting in the same way first times on pills or booze are, a lot of people find it to be a dissapointment their first time.

The comedowns aren't particularly bad until you graduate to heavier use which is part of the insidious nature of the drug. It will however make you think you can drink more than you can which can result in untold hangovers. Also has the nasty catch that if the coke wears off before you get home the booze all kicks in and you end up dangerously out of it.

[GINGA]

Im 18 going on 19. I overheard a couple of my mates talking in the pub one night. The information about the window is very interesting as well as the dis-satisfaction of the 30 minute experience. That probably holds very true for people, after spending all that cash and for it to only last 30min. You are most certainly right about the increased contact point.

You have all brought up some really good points for me to think about, espicially you Martin_Bashir, Thanks.

ps. Martin you are very wise.

[budda]

I think one of the biggest problems with cocaine is its variable affects on people, some just seem very pre-disposed to having problems with it, others just do it and then shrug it off.

[flame_g]

Started taking recreational drugs about 2 years. I only use beans when I know it is going to be a big night (club/gig) otherwise I have a bit of coke to keep me going and give me a bit of a buzz. I sometimes have a comedown from coke, but think half of it is just lack of sleep. Last time I had beans (only 2 of them) didn't have a comedown at all. I'm into my festivals so get completely mashed for 3 days at Reading and Glastonbury. Takes me 2-3 days to recover from these. Last Glasto was SOOO spaced out for 2 days after.

[Spliffie]

Cocaine's major problem is that it is so very geared toward repeated use. Whereas E or cannabis to a certain degree can be experienced through the consumption of one joint or one pill (or dose if you like) cocaine lends itself to repeated use even on your first session. You do a line, 30 mins later you're back to square one and if you've got a gram on you then you are going to do that again because, its face it, no one (or very few people i should say) is really going to consider 30mins a decent experience.



A gram of average coke will generally result in a shorter session than a few pills will, which are of course a fraction of the price. Likewise with amphetamine etc.

Unless you're a dealer or a millionaire, there really isn't much scope for an average user to head towards addiction.

[Spliffie]

Still even with great coke it's not a very strong buzz as such. Crack is much better.

Real cocaine will blow your fucking head off.

As for crack, I don't see the point really, a gram of good cocaine will last you well over 5 hours (if you're being conservative) and does the trick more than adequately.

[Martin_Bashir]

spliffie you are slightly missing the point of my posts, and im not sure what your last comment on my post was adding (unless you were just elaborating i guess).

As i have stated before cocaine has the potential for less barriers to repeated use than pills seem to in many cases. You are making the grave assumption that everyone stops when they run out of money.

[budda]

Unless you're a dealer or a millionaire, there really isn't much scope for an average user to head towards addiction.

Bollox.

Thats total and complete rubbish.

[LadyJade]

Bollox.

Thats total and complete rubbish.
:yes: Seconded. Completely untrue.

[Skive]

Real cocaine will blow your fucking head off.

What I meant was that it's not a druggies drugs as such. It may be 'real' strong coke but it doesn't get you 'wasted'.

[Martin_Bashir]

wouldnt that be thirded, or am i invisible these days...

[budda]

I know for an absolute and total fact that people without much money can get and do get addicted to cocaine.

[Martin_Bashir]

(looks around)...(sighs)

yes; spliffie your understanding of cocaine usage patterns seems to be very restrictive and very innaccurate. Cocaine can be used by anyone, most anywhere, most anytime.

If you follow your monetary arguement through, then there would only be rich addicts :confused:

[LadyJade]

wouldnt that be thirded, or am i invisible these days...
Aww, it was more the tone of Bong's post I was in support of, rather than just the sentiment, but of course you said it first...

[budda]

Aww, it was more the tone of Bong's post I was in support of, rather than just the sentiment..

See, I told you I was the Mods Choice Martin.

[Skive]

See, I told you I was the Mods Choice Martin.

Nobody likes an arse licker. :D

[budda]

Nobody likes an arse licker. :D

Some do, maybe you just dont hang around in the right circles.

[Skive]

Some do

Only all the other goody goodies.

[Blagsta]

Unless you're a dealer or a millionaire, there really isn't much scope for an average user to head towards addiction.

Maybe you should take a visit to your local drugs service. You'll soon change your mind.

[Martin_Bashir]

peh, Mods choice...

Jim and Susie hate you, actually hate you, you know that dont you ?

[budda]

Oh, I know that, but Susie isnt a proper Mod anymore and Jim isnt supposed to Mod in here, so I'm safe.

[Skive]

Both are you seem to be in competition to be the biggest Mods pet, it's embarrasing. :D

[budda]

He started it, I'm far more mature about the whole thing.

[Martin_Bashir]

when did i ever say anyone of them likes me, im just stating the obvious fact that they spend their every waking hour rueing his existence...

[Spliffie]

What I meant was that it's not a druggies drugs as such. It may be 'real' strong coke but it doesn't get you 'wasted'.

Yeah, i've heard this said before, coke's a drug for people who don't like drugs...

Certainly some powder will barely give you a buzz...used to think along similar lines as well until i tried the good stuff...best euphoria i've ever felt, alongside the first few times I took E.

As for saying there isn't much scope for addiction...the vast majority of users aren't addicted...casual use isn't a fastrack to becoming a cokehead, although yes that obviously was a bad generalisation.

[Spliffie]

spliffie you are slightly missing the point of my posts, and im not sure what your last comment on my post was adding (unless you were just elaborating i guess).

As i have stated before cocaine has the potential for less barriers to repeated use than pills seem to in many cases. You are making the grave assumption that everyone stops when they run out of money.

I was just elaborating.

Aquiring a monster coke habit isn't something on the cards for the average user, that's really my point - most people aren't going to have a problem controlling their use. My willpower is shitty, have fairly serious cannabis dependency, but can regulate my coke use absolutely no problem.

[Martin_Bashir]

any user can at any time become dependant upon any substance they consume use or interact with.

To say most people dont have a problem controlling their coke use is a bit simplistic and misleading, not meaning to sound funny or anything but in what sense do you mean this...

If someone who only does coke on occasion binges in a session, but only does this very occasionally, is this regulated use?

If someone only has a small toot regularly, is that regulated use?

Like Skive said, Cocaine is one of the few drugs that has a comedown intertwined with desire...

[Spliffie]

any user can at any time become dependant upon any substance they consume use or interact with.

To say most people dont have a problem controlling their coke use is a bit simplistic and misleading, not meaning to sound funny or anything but in what sense do you mean this...

If someone who only does coke on occasion binges in a session, but only does this very occasionally, is this regulated use?

If someone only has a small toot regularly, is that regulated use?

Like Skive said, Cocaine is one of the few drugs that has a comedown intertwined with desire...

Regulating use - controlling on the amount you're doing, how often you're doing it, etc etc...personally don't take it more than once a week (usually once or twice every few months now at the very most). That's what i mean by regulating use - setting your own boundaries.

It's all about restricting your use according to finance and health, mentally and physically.

Most stimulants have a comedown intertwined with desire...how many people do you know who stop at 1 pill? Never heard or come across people spending days speeding?

[Martin_Bashir]

yes i have but you are confusing intoxicated state redosing with comedown-provoked redosing.

When you are in the throes of a comedown, just as the magic begins to fade (MDMA here) and that awful hollow feeling creeps in as it progresses you want less and less to take any more MDMA...NOT the way of Cocaine where as Skive put it you are left 'Clucking for more'.

What you are describing there is the lines along which, in an ideal world, people should regulate their use. People simply do not proceed along the financial and health related lines in leading their lives, many strive after stimulation and titilation by whatever means available, maybe even against the lines you have laid down.

What i feel you are putting foward here is your personal experience with coke and that of those around you and applying it more widely than perhaps is wise or representative.

[Spliffie]

yes i have but you are confusing intoxicated state redosing with comedown-provoked redosing.

When you are in the throes of a comedown, just as the magic begins to fade (MDMA here) and that awful hollow feeling creeps in as it progresses you want less and less to take any more MDMA...NOT the way of Cocaine where as Skive put it you are left 'Clucking for more'.

What you are describing there is the lines along which, in an ideal world, people should regulate their use. People simply do not proceed along the financial and health related lines in leading their lives, many strive after stimulation and titilation by whatever means available, maybe even against the lines you have laid down.

What i feel you are putting foward here is your personal experience with coke and that of those around you and applying it more widely than perhaps is wise or representative.

You've used plenty of personal experience yourself, Martin...and have quoted that of Skive.

Coming off cocaine isn't pleasant...it's the 5 minute transition between the high and low where the desire to re-dose is particularly strong...depressed reality is starting to shine through the waning high and you want another line badly...you don't "cluck" for cocaine when you're fully down.

are you seriously saying the desire isn't there for people to consume more E when the effects start to wear off? Or is that just personal experience ;) ? Personally speaking, I won't come down from E unless the experience has been satisfactory, which usually means after about 10-12 hour mark...coming off E before this point will cause strong desires to consume another pill or wrap...comparing coke to E in this respect isn't wise anyway, coming down from E is a considerably more gentle process, however unpleasant...coming off coke is brutally harsh for 5-10 minutes...once you're past that phase though, you're on a plain, simple comedown. The "clucking" feeling Skive refers to is before the return to baseline.

[Skive]

If I do a line of ching or a crack pipe the result is the same - I'll be quite happy to blow the resy of my wonga redosing until I run out.
It's that sort of drug.

[Martin_Bashir]

are you seriously saying the desire isn't there for people to consume more E when the effects start to wear off?

Yes for alot of people i am, because alot of people on redose while still very much high as opposed to coke. Your brain cannot sustain a consistent 12 hour high which has the empathic serotonin derrived effects of MDMA, it will simply 'speed you up'.

[Skive]

I think it fair to say there is far greater risk of becoming a addicted to coke than becoming addicted to MDMA.

I think most people who have used both drugs will agree.

[Spliffie]

Yes for alot of people i am, because alot of people on redose while still very much high as opposed to coke. Your brain cannot sustain a consistent 12 hour high which has the empathic serotonin derrived effects of MDMA, it will simply 'speed you up'.

You can feel the empathic effects up to 10-12 hours, although the high becomes somewhat 'flat'.

So people doing cocaine don't re-dose while "very much" high? Right...

You're right skive, i've not said otherwise...i've never been able to stop half-way through a gram...'tis impossible. Likewise i've never been able to avoid prolonging a session on E past the 4 hour mark.

This thread is becoming pointless anyway. Fail to control your use of either and you'll encounter problems, be it addiction, pnemonia etc.

[Martin_Bashir]

So people doing cocaine don't re-dose while "very much" high? Right...


no i didnt even imply that.

A 'flat' high? Sounds like effects dissapating over time to me...also some of that maybe to do with simply stimulation rather than the action of any specific serotonin agonist...

Barring variational factors such as individual brain chemistry, this is not the case for alot of people...a 12 hour E binge is not uncommon but it isnt the prevailing model of use either.

You keep trying to insist that Cocaine and E are extremely comparable drugs when in action, effect and usage patterns they differ chemically, financially and in terms of usage.

Oh and i didnt say putting foward personal experience was a bad thing i was merely putting foward the idea that you were using your personal experience to debunk the possibility of other usage patterns.

[Spliffie]

I think it fair to say there is far greater risk of becoming a addicted to coke than becoming addicted to MDMA.

I think most people who have used both drugs will agree.

Yes of course, but there is also, in some respects, a greater risk of over-doing MDMA...for financial reasons, a greater acceptance etc.

Martin; I've never said they are "extremely comparable". Nor have I used personal experience to "debunk" other usage patterns.

Now go on, have the last word, I know you'll be itching... ;) .

[Skive]

Now go on, have the last word, I know you'll be itching... ;) .


Tell tell words of someone itching to have the last word? ;)

[Martin_Bashir]

im not gonna concede the point if i think there are flaws in your arguement am i? And i thought the purpose of debate was to explore avenues through discourse, thereby enhancing understanding by testing your knowledge against those of others.

but if you are going to turn an important topic into a holier-than-thou-bollocks one-upmanship contest then you are welcome to it old son...

[Spliffie]

Tell tell words of someone itching to have the last word? ;)

No - i don't see the thread going anywhere, that's all.

[Martin_Bashir]

then why chime in with schnide comments insyead of debate?

[Spliffie]

then why chime in with schnide comments insyead of debate?

Firstly, it wasn't a "schnide comment" - and secondly, there isn't much to debate.

As for being "holier-than-thou", I have no idea where that came from. Maybe you're confusing me with someone else...

You're arguing technicalities which i'm not disputing, some of which are irrelevent to the original topic.

Basic points are - you know as do i that addiction is largely the consequence of personal/social problems. Treating cocaine with respect and a bit of caution, and you won't become dependent. How many users snort it throughout the day, every day? A small minority. When I talk about limited scope, that's what I mean...

There's a tendency to malign coke as something particularly nasty and best avoided (which it certainly can be) whilst affording E a level of acceptance...which imho is undeserved. E offers potential for mis-use on levels which cocaine doesn't - and vice-versa. I wasn't suggesting they are similar, comparative drugs.

[Martin_Bashir]

;ok then, just dont confusing clarifying your own point with me arguing irrelevances.

I'd agree with most of that apart from 'small minority' of dependant coke users, its a little more than that.

Oh and everyone must watchthis (http://www.campchaos.com/show.php?iID=866) because its funny :D

[Spliffie]

I'd agree with most of that apart from 'small minority' of dependant coke users, its a little more than that.

Oh and everyone must watchthis (http://www.campchaos.com/show.php?iID=866) because its funny :D

Do you know any sources with an estimation of dependent coke users? Not including crack that is.

[Martin_Bashir]

Figures available here (http://www2.netdoctor.co.uk/news/index.asp?id=109159&D=8&M=3&Y=2004)

The ONS figures include users of crack cocaine - sold as rocks - as well as those who snort the drug as a powder. There are currently an estimated 475,000 powder cocaine addicts in Britain, and a further 200,000 who take crack cocaine.

This is taken from a NetDoctor report but is quoting ONS stats, which i am currently in the process of picking through the ONS site to verify, but on the face of it this aint exactly a 'small minority'.

Oh and by the way do you have any stats to back up your original claim of a 'small minority?

[Spliffie]

Figures available here (http://www2.netdoctor.co.uk/news/index.asp?id=109159&D=8&M=3&Y=2004)



This is taken from a NetDoctor report but is quoting ONS stats, which i am currently in the process of picking through the ONS site to verify, but on the face of it this aint exactly a 'small minority'.

"There are currently an estimated 475,000 powder cocaine addicts in Britain, and a further 200,000 who take crack cocaine."

The source is confusing users with addicts.

Oh and by the way do you have any stats to back up your original claim of a 'small minority?

Nothing to hand. But I recall statistics that around 40% of heroin users were dependent...taking into consideration demographs etc...considerably less than 40% of powder coke users are addicts would be my logical estimation...i would say a fairly small-ish minority at least.

[Martin_Bashir]

considerably less than 40% of powder coke users are addicts would be my logical estimation

that is completely turned on its head when you consider that there are far more cocaine users in the Uk than those of heroin.

also yes i thought that might be the case as the ONS only holds separate estimates on powder use rather than addiction breakdowns.

[budda]

Off the top of my head (I'm sure I remember it from somewhere) it is about one in ten cocaine users (powder) go on to have problems with it.

Though given I havent been around people who use it in many years I cant say I'm up-to-date with the scene at the moment.

[LadyJade]

I believe a lot of the statistical data comes from those who seek treatment, ie, those with problems. I think the defenitions of dependent and addicted also need clearing up. Let me check with my drug treatment specialist and I will get back to you...

[budda]

Exactly, a lot of cocaine users wouldnt really ever dream of heading for treatment and would probably deal with it in one way or another themselves.

Doesnt mean they arent addicted though.

[Spliffie]

that is completely turned on its head when you consider that there are far more cocaine users in the Uk than those of heroin.

Not really, I was talking percentages.

[Martin_Bashir]

But I recall statistics that around 40% of heroin users were dependent...taking into consideration demographs etc...considerably less than 40% of powder coke users are addicts would be my logical estimation...i would say a fairly small-ish minority at least.

yes but then heroin and powder cocaine is a meaningless comparison isnt it?

[Yerascrote]

yes but then heroin and powder cocaine is a meaningless comparison isnt it?

depends really...i can call heroin a scumbag junkie tramp wanker of a gypsy drug and coke as a social cool calm non-judgemental drug...but at the same time i can call them class A's...fyucked up innit...

[Skive]

You can binge on ecstasy and abuse it but to do it on a regular basis i.e seven days a week just wouldn't be worth it. Even if you wanted to do pills day after day seretonin levels would take such a hammering you just wouldn't feel fuck all - I've tried it.

Where as coke can be binged every day of the week.

[Martin_Bashir]

i mean meaningless in the sense of what are you trying to prove by comparing the figures in this manner?

[Yerascrote]

i mean meaningless in the sense of what are you trying to prove by comparing the figures in this manner?

that you get addicted to heroin quicker than coke...as in physical addiction like

[Martin_Bashir]

yes but comparison of one substance with another does not in any way mitigate how harmful or addictive a substance may be in isolation...

[Yerascrote]

yes but comparison of one substance with another does not in any way mitigate how harmful or addictive a substance may be in isolation...

well it mightn't give you a full indication but you can sorta make a firm conclusion when comparing...

[Martin_Bashir]

no not at all IMHO mate. all substances must be considered within their own individual operational parameters. Though certain substances may present similar effects and symptoms with use, in this case they have some similarities, but far more differences, for example in terms of how people encounter the substance.

[Spliffie]

yes but then heroin and powder cocaine is a meaningless comparison isnt it?

Depends on the context.

[Spliffie]

no not at all IMHO mate. all substances must be considered within their own individual operational parameters. Though certain substances may present similar effects and symptoms with use, in this case they have some similarities, but far more differences, for example in terms of how people encounter the substance.

Which bears little, if any, relevence to what's being discussed.

You're trying to create contention from nothing - so we may as well call it quits before screeds of pseudo-intellectual irrelevence push this thread past the 6 page mark.

[Martin_Bashir]

its not meaningless you are just trying to stifle the debate because you dont like the terms in which i am discussing it.

Which bears little, if any, relevence to what's being discussed.


if you are making a comparative statement i am putting the contrary view, as for pseudo-intellectual; bollocks theres absolutely nothing complicated here.

[Spliffie]

its not meaningless you are just trying to stifle the debate because you dont like the terms in which i am discussing it.



if you are making a comparative statement i am putting the contrary view, as for pseudo-intellectual; bollocks theres absolutely nothing complicated here.

Look, you've lost the plot. There is nothing to debate. End of.

[Martin_Bashir]

it is perfectly clear that there is no fucking plot now, i agree.

[Solan]

This thread was started a while ago so, Ginga... you may have gone ahead and tried coke by now... but I'm gonna throw my tuppence worth in anyway!

For a start - everbody gets affected slightly differently with all drugs. If you're 6 foot 5 and a great hulk of a guy, you're gonna react differently to a line than if you're 5 foot 4, and a tad on the slender side!

So don't go thinking you know what to expect. You never do.

Plus - who are you getting it from? You may get some from a mythical 'good- guy' dealer, who's not in it for the profit and gives you pure stuff... in which case... hold on to your hat!

Likelihood is you'll get hardly any coke, and the rest of the wrap will be full of foul smelling, foul tasting chemicals that do nothing for you other than make your nose itch for three days and put you in a bad mood the next day. (Warn your girlfriend to steer clear of you if you have one!)

Also - it depends what you're doing. Just like with booze. If you're out clubbing or if you're sitting by the Thames feeding the swans... you're gonna get a different experience.

Whatever.... I agree with Martin. It's easy to start, and f***ing hard to stop.

Good luck.

[Skive]

Whatever.... I agree with Martin. It's easy to start, and f***ing hard to stop.

It's only a probelm to stop using it if you use it too much.

If you use it I agree there is a risk of developing a dependance - maybe more of a risk than ecstasy - but it can and is used quite sensibly by most people.

[Martin_Bashir]

i agree i think you are not understanding my point, dependance is possible not compulsory.

[budda]

that you get addicted to heroin quicker than coke...as in physical addiction like

Sort of, in that you can not get physically addicted to cocaine, but if you blasted a lot of rocks for a couple of weeks you could easily get a habit, where as it takes a while to produce a full blown physical addiction to heroin.

[sweetiepie2121]

well, well, well im the person u want t talk t ginga.
Iv been there done that lol,
The come down is horrible, it makes u feel so depresed i remember wen i layed in bed cryin didnt know wat t do, u forget about the important things in life cocains your main piority so be careful dont take so much cause thats wen u can get addicted.
And i dont quite understand how can u crave somthing u have never had?
well anyway gd luck with it

[Solan]

Yeah... valid point SweetPie. How can you crave something you've never tried? That's an odd one!

So are you still craving it after all this heated debate on your behalf, Ginge? Have you been put off - or do you want it more?

One thing I notice is that, despite 15 years of heavy drug abuse, and finally getting off everything after my body was about to go into total meltdown... when I see people taking coke in films, or puffing, or anything... I really want it again. My mouth waters and I start grinding my teeth in anticipation.

I wonder if this may be part of what is making you want it? In film it all looks soooo glamorous and soooo cool, and the people taking it are always dead good-looking and sharp. But that is soooooooooo not reality!! Believe me!

[budda]

Solan; Its interesting that visual stimulation makes you want to do cocaine again, its well known that in an addict certain areas of the brain are stimulated by images of cocaine use.

Interestingly its the same brain reaction as showing a non addict porn.

[Solan]

It's a freaky one, BongBuddha.
I hate that part of it all. The fact that my common sense tells me that I never want to touch the stuff again - but my body tells me something else. Even sitting here typing this now I am getting body memories. :banghead:
I guess something that you got really excited about for years and years, and then suddenly vanishes from your life... my body is like... "Hey! Where did that go? I though we liked that!" I feel like my body is being a traitor to my mind though, and it annoys me!
Luckily my mind is the stronger force now - thank f***!

[Spliffie]

It's a freaky one, BongBuddha.
I hate that part of it all. The fact that my common sense tells me that I never want to touch the stuff again - but my body tells me something else. Even sitting here typing this now I am getting body memories. :banghead:
I guess something that you got really excited about for years and years, and then suddenly vanishes from your life... my body is like... "Hey! Where did that go? I though we liked that!" I feel like my body is being a traitor to my mind though, and it annoys me!
Luckily my mind is the stronger force now - thank f***!

Think of the comedown as well...usually puts me off coke or pills.

[MR_D]

[COLOR=Red]im sorry, erm, as reading this thread and deciding to join you all, i was under the infuence of crack, and wouldnt advise the use of it, im fairly well experianced in pills, well over 1000 in 2years and now hardly do them because the effecty maces me wanna sleep! the "coke comedown," is real asfar as ive experianced, ive uesde on and off for 3 years and enjoy it when i do it, id never let any of my frieds do it just for the fact i know how addictive it is, as is speed. sry bout the rant, felt the need foir it!! and now ive run out and pinda pissed bout it, i washed up a gram 3 hours ago!! :no: