Alexander Shulgin lecture in TCD Dublin Friday 11th

[Shogun]

The godfather of MDMA and other assorted goodies is doing an open lecture at 6.00pm in Trinity college Dublin tommorow.

Just found out about this..wouldn't mind going down, plus theres a few parties about in Dublin after.

If only i'd have known before tonight.

[Yerascrote]

The godfather of MDMA and other assorted goodies is doing an open lecture at 6.00pm in Trinity college Dublin tommorow.

Just found out about this..wouldn't mind going down, plus theres a few parties about in Dublin after.

If only i'd have known before tonight.

wat the fuck...where's these parties...who is he???

[Martin_Bashir]

alexander shulgin wrote this (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0963009605/qid=1110502185/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_2_1/026-3875762-6774009)

its a very readable (so im told) account of the uses and properties of therepeutic and potentially therepeutic pharmaceuticals such as MDMA...

im sure bong will tell you all about it...at great length..whenever he reads this ;)

[Yerascrote]

alexander shulgin wrote this (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0963009605/qid=1110502185/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_2_1/026-3875762-6774009)

its a very readable (so im told) account of the uses and properties of therepeutic and potentially therepeutic pharmaceuticals such as MDMA...

im sure bong will tell you all about it...at great length..whenever he reads this ;)

ahhhh i know him well....bla starting to get a hangover not liking it at all...

[budda]

It would be interesting, he's still just as sharp as ever, though might be quite deep and complex.

Its not often he travels these days, he is getting on a bit in age.

[bananaman]

went to see alex in trinity on friday night. quite interesting. he seems very, very intelligent and so does his wife. sounds like they have done a lot of drugs together - and she seemed to talk about the death stage of doing drugs a lot - like when you have a deep introspective buzz and face death! can't say i have ever had that - but she seems to talk about it as if it were part of doing drugs - but i guess these guys do drugs on a different level to most people.

apparantly their books contain recepies for making LSD etc - they confirmed this....... must buy a copy.

he spoke about how he got started on drugs - by a friend who gave him some mescalin. he confirmed that he did not invent MDMA - but he did document it's effects etc for the first time - offically anyway. he said his favourite drug is 2CB? never heard of it. any know what it is? he said if this stuff doesn't blow your mind, then try 2CI - the same drug but works on different parts of mind. he was saying that he knows of no long term effects of prolonged MDMA use - but couldnt vouch for Ecstacy as it's impossible to say what the hell is in most tabs. he did warn, howver, that the " magic" of MDMA, when you first start using it, wears off - as most people know ( e.g. people needing 6/10 tabs a night after having done E a few times) - and he said that this magic cannot be retrieved once it is gone - i.e. once you build up the tolerance to MDMA - you do not loose this tolerance at a fast enough rate for it to disappear in a lifetime. bit of a shame - so all you first timers, enjoy it. it is officially the best one you will take ( as long as the quality is good of course).

he answered questions then - a few stupid questions on how can he condone drug use? - but the people asking seemed to be talking about heroin etc, whilst he was talking about pyschoactive drugs - LSD etc. one girl got upset near the end - harping on about friends who had ruined themselves with drugs - well it wasn't his fault you boot.

[budda]

2CB is related to MDMA, its sort of a half way point between MDMA and LSD, though thats a very clumsy way of putting it.

2C-i is very chemically similar to 2CB but is supposed to be rougher on the body and longer lasting, it has an iodine atom attached rather than a bromine.

I would despute with him about MDMA's harm and I am surpised he was that definate, there is some evidence suggesting it does harm. Its an unclear picture.

[Martin_Bashir]

I would despute with him about MDMA's harm and I am surpised he was that definate, there is some evidence suggesting it does harm. Its an unclear picture.


yeah been meaning to ask you about this...none of the doctors or academics on this course im on have heard of him...how respected is this guy?

[budda]

In the world of hallucinogens and neuropharmacology he's a fucking God.

He's obviously stupidly intelligent and very sharp, I know someone who has interviewed him.

As to his role in drug research, hmm, thats less clear, he never does animal tests and only really does subjective experience type tests with people he knows. So how much he knows about the possible harm is up for debate.

I wouldnt want to challenge him in person, but I wouldnt be happy saying that MDMA wont cause harm.

[bananaman]

he was very definite about MDMA not causing harm - but as pointed out, he only really does drugs himself - and probably in a small circle of "researchers" - so his certainty is up for debate. he said that whenever he makes a new drug or an analogue of an old drug, he tries it himself. he does have a lab and i suppose he would be in contact with a lot of people who do drugs - so this is probably what he is basing his certainty on.

i can't imagine MDMA not causing harm with regular use - someone asked the couple if it doesn't cause harm , why do so many people who use it, feel awful the next day. he said he never felt bad after using MDMA, and then his wife explained that people who feel bad after MDMA use, feel this way because their "base" level, of happiness i suppose, is messed up so when they come down, the go lower than normal and feel like shit.

after listening to him, no one could question his expertise anyway - he is published in his field and well known by american authorities. one of the smartest people i have heard speak publicly in a long time - (a priest i knew once being smarter....)

i reckon someone will make a film about him - probably after his death. even the quick stories he told the room were fascinating and you could tell that if he had time, he could have gone into them a bit more. ......he spoke about one time himself and his wife were on something - he didn't say what - and they were sat watching a clock in the kitchen. they had some sort of communal buzz going and both saw the clock's second hand slowing down and grinding to a near halt. they both said they knew they were near death - as they knew that if the hand on the clock stopped, so would their hearts - so they had to work their way out of it and eventually some sort of veil came down over the clock and they were safe!!!!! now that sounds fucking weird. i'd love to see that in a film. the wife said that this facing of death and the conquering of it - was a highly spiritual experience and develops the mind in a way it couldn't when sober.

they both strongly recommmend the use of babysitters when doing strong drugs, and they would like to see the legalisation of drugs. they had plenty to say on these matters, and made some vey good points - eventually gettting to the area of therapeutic drug use - his wife stated that MDMA is an incredible tool for hepling people mentally, when administered and monitored correctly. i'm sure plenty of people would think they are just two junkies, strung out from the 60's and still partying, long after the party is over - but they know what they are talking about and seem to be very happy people - so maybe they have something worth listening to. i'm gonna buy the book anyway - if only for the recepies.......

all in all a very interesting talk , and plenty of food for thought there.

2CB sounds good - how is it taken?

[budda]

Ha ha! Yes the recipes, just mix a bit of this and that together hay presto! Hmm, not really how it works I'm afraid.

Yes he does give all the details, but you REALLY have to know what you are doing and have a well stocked lab to come anywhere close.

Interesting books though.

He's supposed not to really use his lab anymore, given that virtually everything is illegal, but no-one is really sure.

He was raided a while back and the police didnt know what half the stuff was, realised it could be really dangerous and gave it all back.

[Martin_Bashir]

ok lets put this in BIG LETTERS SO EVERYONE EVERYWHERE CAN SEE IT...

you do not lose this tolerance to MDMA at a fast enough rate for it to disappear in a lifetime

so everyone's who's currently on their 12th bean of the night, STOP DOING IT! if you want a decent buzz stop caining them like they are going out of fashion.

[budda]

There is some debate as to why the tolerance happens, I've heard suggested that the mind (not the physical brain) gets used to it, that because of its opening powers you dont need to experience it more than a few times.

Either that or you have completely fucked your nerve endings.

[Martin_Bashir]

either way the above statement is probably true.

[Yerascrote]

There is some debate as to why the tolerance happens, I've heard suggested that the mind (not the physical brain) gets used to it, that because of its opening powers you dont need to experience it more than a few times.

Either that or you have completely fucked your nerve endings.

i think thats true...i mean even if i do loads of pills it's like you are fucked but it's not the same life prfounding new experience...you do't get the ultimate super insights and total understanding...just a bit of a buzz really...

[budda]

Exactly, MDMA is a somewhat simple experience, it doesnt really change, its not a complex experience like a full blown hallucinogen so maybe the mind just gets used to it.

[Shogun]

It certainly is that, the mind getting used to something and then not experiencing it's full potential.

[budda]

Which is why many people dont really like the idea of knowing whats in their pills, they like the variety even though its considerably more dangerous.

[Shogun]

I would like to know what's in those pink diamonds, has anyone on here ever came across them?

Most people don't care what's in them.

[Martin_Bashir]

thats why certain pills arent really 'E' anymore...(in terms of how people view them i mean)

used to be if you bought an E, you wanted the effects of E and anything else was a dissapointment)...now you buy 'pills' you buy 'A drug' and you're only dissappointed if they are duds or make you feel bad...

[budda]

A good point, people are just looking to get fucked, whether thats MDA or pure MDMA doesnt seem to make a great deal of difference.

[badboy4life]

mdma does it for me, i would still take a pill i know isnt pure but they just arent quite the same

[budda]

Well certainly, and the other drugs in the group are harsher on the body, MDA is not all that great for females, it seems to be linked to infections of the toilet area for them.