Racist in compo claim

[stargalaxy]

Story. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/4311887.stm)
The treasurer of the far-right British National Party is asking for £60,000 in compensation after being expelled from a trade union. John Walker, of Deeside, North Wales, told an employment tribunal that he was discriminated against by the Transport and General Workers' Union.

OK, that's bad enough, but the union union says he was expelled for "inciting racial harassment. It has nothing to with his BNP membership". Huh? I thought inciting hatred and hysteria was precisely what the BNP does.

Any other thoughts on this one?

[Disillusioned]

Umm I do not see any problem.

I’d have thought the interests pursued by a trade union anyway are incompatible with BNP membership.

I'd say it's up to the union. If they want to expel somebody that's up to them.

I know some have called for BNP members to be banned from certain jobs. I can totally agree with this for jobs like a police officer. But if that was extended to lots of other jobs it could possibly be a tad undemocratic. And where would you draw the line? Would UKIP members too be banned?

Anyway the BNP get way too much coverage. They're an absolutely tiny party with very limited public support. Going on the amount you hear about these thugs you'd think there a major party. And they're not. And I fear that all the constant press about the BNP even though it's negative only helps these losers.

[Man Of Kent]

They're an absolutely tiny party with very limited public support.

So were the Nazis in 1929, but by the mid 1930s...?

[Disillusioned]

So were the Nazis in 1929, but by the mid 1930s...?

Under the FPTP the chances of the BNP getting elected are absolutely miniscule. Near impossible for the foreseeable future. They are not to be taken seriously. And if they ever did get some clout there would be massive public resistance, probably bigger than the protests against Le Pen in France. (Funny how Americans are always calling the French Socialists when so many French people voted for that right wing scumbag)

[BlackArab]

It was reported that the BNP were urging their members to join unions and then make their racist views public. The hope was this would lead to successful compensation claims, benefitting BNP members while simultaneously hurting the unions financially.

Like most far-right organizations, they are anti-union and hate the help unions give to those fighting racism and their own racism campaigns.

[Kermit]

Bankrupting the union would be a good thing.

Of course he was kicked out for being a member of the BNP, but that's unions for you. You're fine if you agree with the shop stupids, but if you don't you get that fat cunt from The Royale Family on your doorstep committing GBH against you.

Although, of course, unions are private organisations and should be allowed to choose whom they admit.

[Teh_Gerbil]

BNP and Trade Unions? Nazi party started as a left win thing, then it betrayed everyone to flirt with the Elite.

BNP guys are idiots anyway, IMHO, lets face it, the BNP doesn't have any serious policies except hating foreigners. Shame people beleive their speil really, how can you beleive it? It takes some amount of Ignorance to do so.

Go Trade Unions!

(Funny how Americans are always calling the French Socialists when so many French people voted for that right wing scumbag)

Yanks think anyone who is lefter than the right wing is a Commie/Socialist, in most cases. I actually know of one yank who called Hitler a Socialist. Someone, please educate those guys over the pond. :crying:

[Kermit]

The Nazi party never was and never has been a "left-wing" party.

Few believe the BNP's policy on foreigners, but people use it as a protest vote. A vote for the BNP gets things done, the people of Halifax found that when suddenly everyone took an interest in the sink estates there after they all elected BNP councillors.

[Teh_Gerbil]

Yeah, the National Socialists never used to go out campaigning to the workers at the start of their rise to power, did they? Then decide to lure in the Elite to gain more power. Their original program was highly anti-capitalist and had plenty of workers rights issues.

[Namaste]

Uhm... How did anyone know he was a BNP member anyway?

If he was inciting racial hatred and it was affecting the harmony of his workplace, fair enough. If it was simply because of his political party which he kept quiet and they found out through over sources... Then it's maybe not as fair.

[BlackArab]

The Nazi party never was and never has been a "left-wing" party.

Few believe the BNP's policy on foreigners, but people use it as a protest vote. A vote for the BNP gets things done, the people of Halifax found that when suddenly everyone took an interest in the sink estates there after they all elected BNP councillors.

Sad but true. Rioting has the same effect.

[budda]

Whether we like it or not the BNP is technically a legitimate political party, he should not be descriminated against because of his membership of a political party. Its simple.

[Kermit]

Yeah, the National Socialists never used to go out campaigning to the workers at the start of their rise to power, did they? Then decide to lure in the Elite to gain more power. Their original program was highly anti-capitalist and had plenty of workers rights issues.

You show little or no understanding of National Socialism.

The National Socialist party was never left-wing.

[BlackArab]

Whether we like it or not the BNP is technically a legitimate political party, he should not be descriminated against because of his membership of a political party. Its simple.

The first post covers this point.

[Kermit]

I think dis actually hit the nail pretty much on the head, though it does concern me that members of legitimate political parties (no matter how vile) are being discriminated against. Not because filth like BNP members deserve to be in public work, or are unsuited to it, but simply because of the precedent.

Once we set a precedent with one political party, it is so easy to extend it to anyone who believes something against the esteblished political hegemony.

[BlackArab]

I think dis actually hit the nail pretty much on the head, though it does concern me that members of legitimate political parties (no matter how vile) are being discriminated against. Not because filth like BNP members deserve to be in public work, or are unsuited to it, but simply because of the precedent.

Once we set a precedent with one political party, it is so easy to extend it to anyone who believes something against the esteblished political hegemony.

If it can be proved he has incited racial harrassment then he is acting the union's policies I would imagine. So quite rightly he would have to go.

Plus as I said this situation has been encouraged as a tactic to harm that organization and perhaps gain a little sympathy.

[Kermit]

The union has a right to decide who is a member, as it is a private organisation. It should be forced to refund every penny of his subs, but that's another argument.

I was meaning in a more general sense, such as the police saying that BNP members will be sacked. That is a worrying trend, no matter how justified it is against the BNP, because once there is a precedent there is a precedent. One needs to look no further than 1930s Germany to see that.

[BlackArab]

I know what you mean but in the courtroom with cases involving people not White and English and the evidence of such an Officer...

You just know what members of the jury are thinking. :yes:

Anyway people like that losing civil liberties is almost poetic. :D Damn! It's situations like this which make you feel so hypocritical. :D :D

[Kermit]

That's the problem, it's so deserved against vermin like that, but the precedent deeply troubles me.

Still, it does have a delicious irony to treat the BNP like fourth-class citizens. Maybe we should forcibly repatriate them...to the middle of the Atlantic with concrete wellies.

[BlackArab]

Just had a thought, Kermit do you remember the OJ case and the effect that racist cop expose had on his evidence.

http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/Simpson/Fuhrman.htm

[AllAmericanRageJunky]

Yanks think anyone who is lefter than the right wing is a Commie/Socialist, in most cases. I actually know of one yank who called Hitler a Socialist. Someone, please educate those guys over the pond. :crying:

oh come on man, you have to be joking right?

and besides the nazis did nationalize all their buisnesses which sounds a hell of a lot like socialism to me. And up untill recently I was a pretty hardline socialist (probably am still considered one by most of my fellow citizens).

[Teh_Gerbil]

No, there was a guy who though that. I am sorry to say it is ture. :no:

One could hardly call the War like attitude, Genocide, Racism, and Beleif in a master race socialist though, can you? Not to mention the pride in the country as opposed to the countries people.

I think thats why is was National Socialism. If it did tend to go more towards the Nationalist part.

Rather like this new National Bolshevik party in Russia... www.bolsheviks.org.

Remind you of anything, at all?

[Kermit]

Just had a thought, Kermit do you remember the OJ case and the effect that racist cop expose had on his evidence.

Good point that, really. OJ got away with murder because of a racist cop, and the same could happen again. being able to discredit a policeman's testomony so easily is never a good thing.

I am very much torn on this issue, tbh. In key jobs such as teaching, law and order, etc, then racist atrtitudes and membership of a racist political party do have an impact, but at the same time there should be freedom of thought and political allegiance.

Sacking bus drivers for being a member of a bona fide political party (such as what First Bradford did) is a disgrace though.

[Blagsta]

National Socialism and socialism are two very very different idealogies.

[The Matadore]

Different, maybe, but equally odious.

[Kermit]

Different, maybe, but equally odious.
Thank you for that helpful comment.

Nazis were not, at any time, socialists or "left wing".

[el_bertie]

Thank you for that helpful comment.

Nazis were not, at any time, socialists or "left wing".

But they did have a large number of socialist members, it was started on a socialist principle - hence the German Worker's Party, and it did have a strong left wing contingent especially in the SA. Maybe it wasn't "traditionally" socialist but there were definately socialist elements. After all, it was called the National Socialist German Workers Party!

[Blagsta]

Different, maybe, but equally odious.

Explain?

[Blagsta]

But they did have a large number of socialist members, it was started on a socialist principle - hence the German Worker's Party, and it did have a strong left wing contingent especially in the SA. Maybe it wasn't "traditionally" socialist but there were definately socialist elements. After all, it was called the National Socialist German Workers Party!

No, no no. They are very very different.

[Disillusioned]

Socialism is a broad term and it’s inevitable that there are aspects of Nazism which seem close to Socialism. I can’t remember if they enacted it or not but I remember from GCSE there was a Nazi policy of banning incomes earned without work. (So people living off shares, interest, etc.) That sounds like a pretty socialist idea.

Anyway to simply say the Nazis were socialist is simplistic and offensive to the socialists in Germany who bravely resisted Nazism in various underground movements…

Two contrasting arguments here from links given on Wikipedia..

http://constitutionalistnc.tripod.com/hitler-leftist/
http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-hitler.htm

[Teh_Gerbil]

I didn't say the were 100% socialist, but they started out more left that right wing. Then the right took over. The SA were the main Socialist thing, and gained the party most of its support.

They were however, highly nationalist by the time they got to the war part, with the majority of the old Socialists or hidden away where they couldn't do much.

[The Matadore]

Explain?

Equally unnatural styles of government for uman beings to create and live in.

[Kermit]

I didn't say the were 100% socialist, but they started out more left that right wing. Then the right took over.

History books. Read them.

The Nazis were never left-wing, socialist or centrist. They were always right-wing, and like far-right organisations now, they pander to the common man's needs for employment and money whilst also preaching nationalism and war.

[AllAmericanRageJunky]

No, there was a guy who though that. I am sorry to say it is ture. :no:

One could hardly call the War like attitude, Genocide, Racism, and Beleif in a master race socialist though, can you? Not to mention the pride in the country as opposed to the countries people.

I think thats why is was National Socialism. If it did tend to go more towards the Nationalist part.

Rather like this new National Bolshevik party in Russia... www.bolsheviks.org.

Remind you of anything, at all?

I'm not saying that they were truly socialist, nor were they by any means left wing. But their economic system looked similar.

...why is all the text on they sight written in English?

[Aladdin]

Equally unnatural styles of government for uman beings to create and live in.
On the contrary Matadore. Socialism is one of the most natural styles of government for man to embrace.

One of the most unnatural, dehumanised and cruel systems is... yep, you've guessed it... your beloved capitalism.

Are you a christian? Have you ever stopped to think what political movement would Jesus be closest to? Because I can assure he'd be a trillion times closer to socialism, and indeed your obsession communism than he ever would to capitalism.

As a matter of fact God has gone as far as stating that capitalists (i.e. the rich) are going straight to hell and do not collect £200 when you pass Go. That unless you can manage to make a camel go through a needle's eye.

Not a great fan of the rich and wealthy and the wonders of capitalism, God is...

[Blagsta]

Equally unnatural styles of government for uman beings to create and live in.

Explain what you mean by "natural".

[Blagsta]

I'm not saying that they were truly socialist, nor were they by any means left wing. But their economic system looked similar.

...why is all the text on they sight written in English?

No, no, no. National Socialism lacks a class analysis which is the very foundation of socialism, so they are very very different.

[Teh_Gerbil]

On the contrary Matadore. Socialism is one of the most natural styles of government for man to embrace.

One of the most unnatural, dehumanised and cruel systems is... yep, you've guessed it... your beloved capitalism.

Are you a christian? Have you ever stopped to think what political movement would Jesus be closest to? Because I can assure he'd be a trillion times closer to socialism, and indeed your obsession communism than he ever would to capitalism.

As a matter of fact God has gone as far as stating that capitalists (i.e. the rich) are going straight to hell and do not collect £200 when you pass Go. That unless you can manage to make a camel go through a needle's eye.

Not a great fan of the rich and wealthy and the wonders of capitalism, God is...

True as it may be, America won't say that as it won't get those wonderful TV Churches "Pay §50 a month and go te Heaven" any money. The Religious are being abused by Capitalists, Again.

Would God condone Communism though, as it preaches against religion? Remember "The Opiate of the Masses"? I agree with that myself, but if God is real, will he hate Communists for saying he doesn't exist? Or appreciate their thinking, as all we see in the world tells us he doesn't?



Edit: All American etc. long name dude (Sorry!), dunno why their site is En Anglais myself, check out www.nbp-info.ru (.org for English) for the Russian site it would seem. That .org one appears to be the sort-of main one for publicity, it would seem. No idea personally! They seem to be an interantional movement now, they have parties in more than one country.

I still live how just like the Nazi's they are trying to combine the left and right together, in their name at least. I just hope they don't turn out like the Nazi's did.

[Blagsta]

the Nazi's never combined left and right