ASBOS i hate them

[wheresmyplacebo]

thats it http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/3900369.stm

best comment so far - so they tackle fly posters and graffiti people, why not get the unsolicited leaflet companies or adverts for credit cards

[budda]

I can sort of see their point and they have the potential to work.

However I am deeply concerned about the evidence needed for them, its lowering the bar again, 'innocent till proven guilty' doesnt seem to apply anymore.

[wheresmyplacebo]

I can sort of see their point and they have the potential to work.

However I am deeply concerned about the evidence needed for them, its lowering the bar again, 'innocent till proven guilty' doesnt seem to apply anymore.


yeh thats what i mean, it just means councils and social services etc instead of sorting out the root problem or finding a real way of dealing with it, just lump the person with an asbo

why should someone not be allowed to drink petrol of their own choice? stupid definetly, and i dont condone it but surely if its that bad, make it illegal

[AllAmericanRageJunky]

it drives me nuts when I hear stuff like "anti-social behavior" it seems to have always been a sign of impending forced conformity.

[Namaste]

it drives me nuts when I hear stuff like "anti-social behavior" it seems to have always been a sign of impending forced conformity.
You wouldn't say that if you were a 70 year old lady who was intimidated every day by a group of youths.

[twisted_trinity]

You wouldn't say that if you were a 70 year old lady who was intimidated every day by a group of youths.
thing is though these things don't seem to be tackling people who are causing the real trouble....

[Namaste]

thing is though these things don't seem to be tackling people who are causing the real trouble....
I wasn't commenting on the efficiency of it or who's arrested... As far as I've experienced, the police are all about statistics, not safety of people.

But the idea of "impending forced conformity"

[wheresmyplacebo]

You wouldn't say that if you were a 70 year old lady who was intimidated every day by a group of youths.


what bout if the old lady is just paranoid, and hates u cause you're young and she isnt anymore :thumb:
whilst those who are intimidating other people, have nothing done to them cause people are too scared

[AllAmericanRageJunky]

You wouldn't say that if you were a 70 year old lady who was intimidated every day by a group of youths.

eh there is merit to that point I suppose.

The reason why the term "anti-social" irritates me is because it often is used as a blanket negative term for individuality. if I dont want to go to my history class and put up with my teachers biased bull hunky does that make me an anti social? if you choose not to wear a school or social uniform are you an anti social? And that whole thing about "GOOD BEHAVIOUR ZONES", dont make a scene on the street if your under the age of thirty because you might get lifted by some cop.

and suppose that 70 year old women who is so intimidated really is just frightened for some irrational reason. Stuff like that happens all the time to me, i'll be walking down the street and some elderly person coming from the other direction upon seeing me will cross to the other side of the street. It's not like I was menacing them or anything, i was just wearing the wrong kind of cloths, or i looked like a hood.

the whole thing sounds subjective and potentially oppressive.

[Mist]

eh there is merit to that point I suppose.

The reason why the term "anti-social" irritates me is because it often is used as a blanket negative term for individuality. if I dont want to go to my history class and put up with my teachers biased bull hunky does that make me an anti social? .


Probably not, but say if you choose instead to go and throw rocks through a street of car windows then that would make you fairly anti-social, yes.

So what term would you prefer to see used?

[Tommo100]

I wasnt originally a fan of these when they came out but its certainly made my area feel a lot lot safer so I think they are fantastic.

[AllAmericanRageJunky]

So what term would you prefer to see used?

how bout just plain old criminal? but the name doesn't seem all that important when you read the article and it talks about keeping people from assembling

[freethepeeps]

You wouldn't say that if you were a 70 year old lady who was intimidated every day by a group of youths.

There are laws that cover behaviour that causes harrassment, alarm and distress, the whole way that they've sold the ASBOs is by focussing on acts that are already illegal and then using them for behaviour that isn't.

ASBOWATCH (http://www.statewatch.org/asbo/ASBOwatch.html)

[AllAmericanRageJunky]

they've sold the ASBOs is by focussing on acts that are already illegal and then using them for behaviour that isn't.

exactly what I was trying to say. That link lead to some rather frightening stuff.

[freethepeeps]

An interesting exchange (http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1441349,00.html) in toadys Grauniad between Lousie Casey of the Home Office antisocial behaviour unit, and Shami Chakrabarti of Liberty.

When there are difficulties proving a criminal offence it is tempting to sidestep justice, to slap a prohibitive order on someone and then bang them up for walking on the wrong side of the street. The presumption of innocence, like innocence itself, is more easily compromised than reclaimed. It seems to me that we would not be living with the chilling spectre of the anti-terror "control order" (indefinite punishment based on secret intelligence) if we had been more critical of his older cousin, the Asbo.

[wheresmyplacebo]

best thing in there

"would you let the police arrest a man with an asbos for swearing when he has tourettes"

[Namaste]

eh there is merit to that point I suppose.

The reason why the term "anti-social" irritates me is because it often is used as a blanket negative term for individuality. if I dont want to go to my history class and put up with my teachers biased bull hunky does that make me an anti social? if you choose not to wear a school or social uniform are you an anti social? And that whole thing about "GOOD BEHAVIOUR ZONES", dont make a scene on the street if your under the age of thirty because you might get lifted by some cop.

The term "antisocial" pretty much means that you're not "prosocial" blatantly... If you're not prosocial you don't exibit the same values of the people in your society reguarding things like ettiquette and manners. If somebody shoves in front of you in a cue, it's antisocial, if somebody's drunk staggering down the street they're antisocial... It's not about individuality it's about having good manners and respect for people.

The problem is again, statistics and (perhaps) media stereotypes... Ohhh and depending on your area who the cops decide they want to pick on. I'd say a greater problem now would be how ethnic minority groups may be targetted...



and suppose that 70 year old women who is so intimidated really is just frightened for some irrational reason. Stuff like that happens all the time to me, i'll be walking down the street and some elderly person coming from the other direction upon seeing me will cross to the other side of the street. It's not like I was menacing them or anything, i was just wearing the wrong kind of cloths, or i looked like a hood.

the whole thing sounds subjective and potentially oppressive.
Maybe it was the way in which you were dressed or maybe you look dodgy. The thing is if that elderly lady hadn't experienced harassment in the past maybe she wouldn't be scared. Besides, if I saw a young man walking down the street and I was on my own and maybe t was dark or something, I'd cross over for safety's sake.

I think it's fine at the moment... It's one of the few things I support put forward recently by the government... However I realise how it could be abused... It could go so far as arresting peace protesters and inhibiting freedom of speech (however this sunset clause shit will do that in time anyway... soon we'll all be eating, thinking and shitting the same because we aren't allowed to think different).

[Rich Kid]

Anti-social behaviour has invaded all our town centres and needs to be dealt with more severely.
ASBO's don't work and the people who get them know they don't work!

Perhaps they had it right years ago with public stocks & public humilation. Bring back stocks into every town centre and put the culprits there for a weekend, they'd soon get the message!
For a second offence a public lashing in the town centre strapped to a specially made pole wouldn't go amiss.
Its the only thing these yobs understand!

[freethepeeps]

-'] The thing is if that elderly lady hadn't experienced harassment in the past maybe she wouldn't be scared.

Hmmm, maybe she should reading the tabloids ......


:eek2:

[freethepeeps]

Anti-social behaviour has invaded all our town centres and needs to be dealt with more severely.
ASBO's don't work and the people who get them know they don't work!

Perhaps they had it right years ago with public stocks & public humilation. Bring back stocks into every town centre and put the culprits there for a weekend, they'd soon get the message!
For a second offence a public lashing in the town centre strapped to a specially made pole wouldn't go amiss.
Its the only thing these yobs understand!

Is it? Is this what your christ would have advocated? Love your neighbour really meant humiliate anyone who doesn't behave in a Rich Kid approved way?

Anyway, a far nicer man than you seems to have shown that there are positive ways to deal with this so-called 'anti-social behaviour' - ie building a relationship with those exhibiting the behaviour and giving them a way out.

Instead of slapping antisocial behaviour orders on 12 young men who are known to local police, Westminster has persuaded them to join a sports vocation training programme.

Since then the men have all successfully completed community sports leadership award courses and qualified for certificates in first aid and child protection. They have won Duke of Edinburgh bronze awards, gone on expeditions to Wales and Brighton and participated in education and planning trips.

Youth worker Eugene Minogue says he initially had to "work hard" to convince local police of the merits of his approach. But in less than a year, the scheme has dramatically cut the number of young men in the borough's Queen's Park area causing a nuisance around housing estates.

Two of the 12 have found work with the post office; others are employed full or part-time by the council.

From Asbo to soft ball (http://society.guardian.co.uk/societyguardian/story/0,7843,1452570,00.html)

[Rich Kid]

We need to deal with the yob culture in our society, its causing misery to millions of people, particularly the elderly.

If I had my way I'd re-introduce stocks in every town centre and every week put the yobs in the stocks for ritual humiliation and punishment. For a second offence I'd introduce public lashings in town centres with culprits tied to a post and given a good lashing.
That'll soon sort them out.

I won't mention what I'd do for a further offence!

[Aladdin]

Have you put your name down for Papacy yet? :D

[Rich Kid]

Anyway, a far nicer man than you seems to have shown that there are positive ways to deal with this so-called 'anti-social behaviour' - ie building a relationship with those exhibiting the behaviour and giving them out
In typical mamby-pamby left-wing pro-criminal fashion you immediately side with the yob rathet than consider the victim - its people like you that have caused the problem to escalate by being too soft on these thugs!
The only thing they understad, and deserve, is a good lashing - bring back the birch!
"Giving them a way out" - what utter pro-criminal nonsense. It would nbe nice if'd you mention the victims occasionally but of course people like you never do!

[Jim V]

Maybe make them wear a crown of thorns for smashing up a group of money lenders?

[AllAmericanRageJunky]

Maybe make them wear a crown of thorns for smashing up a group of money lenders?
:yes: good point man. state induced violence hasn't helped to solve anything in the past, what makes Rich Kid so sure it'll work in the future?

[AllAmericanRageJunky]

In typical mamby-pamby left-wing pro-criminal fashion you immediately side with the yob rathet than consider the victim - its people like you that have caused the problem to escalate by being too soft on these thugs!
The only thing they understad, and deserve, is a good lashing - bring back the birch!
"Giving them a way out" - what utter pro-criminal nonsense. It would nbe nice if'd you mention the victims occasionally but of course people like you never do!

your talking utter nonsense there buddy. Violence towards youth only strengthens resolve. Your solution is rather short sighted, as you said yourself your thinking of the victim, not of solving the actual problem of keeping a youngster from committing criminal acts. You seem to want to dish out punishment which will only serve to socially distance the one being punished, rather than preventing it from happening again.

[freethepeeps]

In typical mamby-pamby left-wing pro-criminal fashion you immediately side with the yob rathet than consider the victim - its people like you that have caused the problem to escalate by being too soft on these thugs!
The only thing they understad, and deserve, is a good lashing - bring back the birch!
"Giving them a way out" - what utter pro-criminal nonsense. It would nbe nice if'd you mention the victims occasionally but of course people like you never do!

People like you -

mamby pamby-

pro-criminal -

Fuck me but you don't half have some sophisticated arguments.

:crazyeyes

[Rich Kid]

People like you -

mamby pamby-

pro-criminal -

Fuck me but you don't half have some sophisticated arguments.

:crazyeyes
Gee thanks ftp, I'm so pleased that my regualr reading of Britains greatest paper, The Daily Mail, is paying off!