Tories - I think that title is condemning enough. [Archive]

ShyBoy

26-02-2005, 04:12 PM

Shut up, moron.

If you don't know how to have an adult debate you should not try, because often your comments give the impression you are a 6 year old. Seriously.

back to the topic: I think that political correctness is a fine line - if we weren't always saying what's politically correct and incorrect then people probably wouldn't be so offended. But then again, it's important to know when someone has made insulting, derogatory or upsetting comments.

groovechampion

26-02-2005, 04:53 PM

back to the topic: I think that political correctness is a fine line - if we weren't always saying what's politically correct and incorrect then people probably wouldn't be so offended. But then again, it's important to know when someone has made insulting, derogatory or upsetting comments.

Yes, for instance, it's important not to be racist. But its not THAT important, there are far worse things in life. People are obsessed with racism and it is accorded more importance that it should be.

Man Of Kent

26-02-2005, 04:56 PM

Political correctness is stupid, end of story.

What exactly is political correctness then?

groovechampion

26-02-2005, 05:05 PM

When people make such an effort to be inoffensive that they forget about common sense, often creating a worse situation than originally existed.

Crap definition but I can't think how to define it succinctly.

Man Of Kent

26-02-2005, 05:15 PM

I think the person in the first post tried to use the word n-i-g-g-e-r, on the basis that "political correctness" meant that they couldn't.

Shwoing respect for another culture isn't really that bad is it?

Just because right-wing elements in this country cannot do that, they label the whole concept as moronic.

groovechampion

26-02-2005, 05:17 PM

Oh no don't get me wrong, I'm all for showing people of all cultures respect.

But surely you agree that political correctness has been taken too far by many?

Man Of Kent

26-02-2005, 05:20 PM

No it hasn't.

Political Correctness is a right wing label to defend their continued offensive nature.

There are some in this country who show their lack of respect by taking offence on behalf of another culture/gender/sexual orientation. To me that is just as bad.

groovechampion

26-02-2005, 05:27 PM

Political Correctness is a right wing label to defend their continued offensive nature.

Don't agree. Some people with offensive views may try to hide behind the political correctness excuse but it doesn't work very well.

Ever read "The Week"? It's hardly what one might call a right-wing publication, but they have a weekly section entitled PC Britain which lists some new stupidity carried out in the name of political correctness.

Man Of Kent

26-02-2005, 05:30 PM

Ever read "The Week"? It's hardly what one might call a right-wing publication, but they have a weekly section entitled PC Britain which lists some new stupidity carried out in the name of political correctness.

It's not done in the name of "political correctness", as I have just tried to explain, that is a right-wing label.

It is being done in an attempt to show respect and is with the best of intentions, sadly it is just as offensive at times.

dr_carter

26-02-2005, 06:24 PM

Tip. Never take anything Rozzer says seriously. He's a nice bloke, but he can be a right twat. Did you ever see him making an arse of himself on QT?

I wonder why he's even an MP actually, he looks more like a gameshow host than anything else. It's all cliches and catchphrases with him, and no substance.

budda

28-02-2005, 10:14 AM

There are some cases of PC (whatever that is really) becoming just silly, but they are few and far between.

The DDA does get a little stupid for example but most of its actions are really good.

Aladdin

28-02-2005, 10:27 AM

A few cases might be silly. The immense majority of cases reported as 'pc' by the tories or the right wing press are not.

Hell, they can't even tell the difference between compensation culture and political correctness. Often you will hear about people making absurd claims for compensation being described as ''political correctness gone maaaaaaaaad!''.

budda

28-02-2005, 10:45 AM

Another fantastic move by the government there, remove legal aid, replace it with ambulance chasing lawyers and hay presto a new industry is born!

MrG

28-02-2005, 01:35 PM

basically the bigger problem is not political correctness, or falling short of it

its the political correctness police, they themselves rarely relate to any of the comments that are made, yet they kick up the bigger fuss

Blagsta

28-02-2005, 01:37 PM

Who are the political correctness police? (no, its not a Frank Zappa song)

MrG

28-02-2005, 01:39 PM

those who go on crusades to clean up anything they can see within viewing distance

especially when what has been done or said doesnt relate to them

while what im about to say is just my take on things, ive thought it through a few times and its not that stupid, usually you dont choose what to be offended by, or what ofends you, it just happens, and happens differently with different people

the PC seem to go through and choose what offends them, and usually is the cases they can kick up the bigegst stir about

stargalaxy

28-02-2005, 01:55 PM

What a stupid thread. What the hell does all this have to do with the Conservatives? They gave into "political correctness", as it's defined here years ago.

Blagsta

28-02-2005, 02:27 PM

stargalaxy

28-02-2005, 02:28 PM

Who are they? Examples? I don't think there is any PC police, as such. There just seem to be individuals out there with very odd views about the world, saying we must not offend others. We apparently have freedom of speech in this country, the right to offend is pivotal to that.

Blagsta

28-02-2005, 02:36 PM

The "anti-PC" argument seems to boil down to the right of people to use racist language.

stargalaxy

28-02-2005, 02:38 PM

The "anti-PC" argument seems to boil down to the right of people to use racist language. Unfortunately, there is that side to it. Personally, I think people should be allowed to say what they like with the only limits being on that which incites violence or racial hatred.

Tommo100

28-02-2005, 02:39 PM

no i think he means things such as words like "accident blackspot" not being allowed to be used, school plays not being allowed to be recorded etc. I dont really think its racist language imo

Its the "PC Police" who campaign for these sort of things.

They are usually white middle class liberals as well my experience.

stargalaxy

28-02-2005, 02:40 PM

no i think he means things such as words like "accident blackspot" not being allowed to be used, school plays not being allowed to be recorded etc. I dont really think its racist language imo Agreed.

Blagsta

28-02-2005, 02:50 PM

no i think he means things such as words like "accident blackspot" not being allowed to be used

Who doesn't allow it? I heard someone use that term on the radio the other week. What evidence have you got that it is banned?

school plays not being allowed to be recorded etc.

This is to do with the tabloids whipping up hysteria to do with paedophilia. What has that to do with "PC"?

I dont really think its racist language imo

No, its about people like you spreding myths.

Its the "PC Police" who campaign for these sort of things.

Yeah, but who are these people? I want names goddamit! :mad:

They are usually white middle class liberals as well my experience.

There is an argument about Liberals tending to think that we can address problems through how language is used rather than looking at the fundamental economic and political structures, yes. But I don't think this is what you were getting at is it?

Tommo100

28-02-2005, 02:57 PM

I cannot believe you managed to get 5 questions out of that, still better than ur usual one post wonders :D

anway.....

Accident Blackspot - My Uncle is a copper and they have been dis-couraged to use the term in thier filing reports, Im pretty sure you are still alowed to use it on the radio.

Pedos - agreed - though I was just trying to use examples off the top of my head.

"No, its about people like you spreding myths" -

Bullshit boy, Dont try and accuse everyone to the right of you about spreading myths, asylum seekers, PCness, immigration, believe it or not we dont spread myths all day like you claim, we live with it day to day.

I wasnt even allowed to say halfcast in a police interview once, I had to write is a mixed race, how pathetic is that?

Yeah, but who are these people? I want names goddamit!

CRE Id say main culprits, Red Ken does his fair share, you yourself appear to be a wannabe

Aladdin

28-02-2005, 03:01 PM

I wasnt even allowed to say halfcast in a police interview once, I had to write is a mixed race, how pathetic is that?
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Tommo100

28-02-2005, 03:05 PM

what? :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

We dont all live in Brixton ya know :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

budda

28-02-2005, 03:06 PM

what? :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

We dont all live in Brixton ya know :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Halfcast is a term that many people find offensive, because of the conotations of the word, it implies 'half baked' etc. Now of course you will roll your eyes and suggest this is PC gone mad, but it is a genuinely offensive term.

Tommo100

28-02-2005, 03:08 PM

Well in that case I apologise.

I seriously had no idea it was an offensive term, It certainly isnt viewed as one by anyone Ive ever came across where I live.

Blagsta

28-02-2005, 03:11 PM

Accident Blackspot - My Uncle is a copper and they have been dis-couraged to use the term in thier filing reports, Im pretty sure you are still alowed to use it on the radio.

So its discouraged now rather than not being allowed? Make your mind up. Anyhow, this would be an example of addressing langauge rather than addressing the underlying organisation.

Bullshit boy,

I'm a good few years older than you, child.

Dont try and accuse everyone to the right of you about spreading myths, asylum seekers, PCness, immigration, believe it or not we dont spread myths all day like you claim, we live with it day to day.

But you are though. People aren't banned from saying "accident blackspot". You're spreading misinformation to suit your views.

I wasnt even allowed to say halfcast in a police interview once, I had to write is a mixed race, how pathetic is that?

So its pathetic because you can't use a term that is offensive to the majority of mixed race people? i think I rest my case. You just want the right to use racist language.

CRE Id say main culprits, Red Ken does his fair share, you yourself appear to be a wannabe

I have problems with the CRE, but again, I'd guess not for the same reasons as you. And care to explain exactly why I'm the same as the CRE? With examples?

budda

28-02-2005, 03:12 PM

Well in that case I apologise.

I seriously had no idea it was an offensive term, It certainly isnt viewed as one by anyone Ive ever came across where I live.

You see, this is where the whole PC gone mad thing comes about, misunderstandings.

Halfcast isnt a term you should really use, same as many of the other slang terms for black peope.

Blagsta

28-02-2005, 03:12 PM

what? :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

We dont all live in Brixton ya know :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

cock

budda

28-02-2005, 03:14 PM

cock

Calm down, the kid didnt know, granted he's not being hugely tackful about it but theres no need for that.

ShyBoy

28-02-2005, 03:14 PM

So its pathetic because you can't use a term that is offensive to the majority of mixed race people?

I disagree with this, it's just normal usage in a hell of a lot of places and anyone I've known hasn't been offended by it. That's only my personal experience, but if it was that offensive im sure ive had heard once somewhere somebody telling the person that it was indeed offensive, rather than just continuing having a conversation with them.

budda

28-02-2005, 03:16 PM

Tommo100

28-02-2005, 03:26 PM

I disagree with this, it's just normal usage in a hell of a lot of places and anyone I've known hasn't been offended by it. That's only my personal experience, but if it was that offensive im sure ive had heard once somewhere somebody telling the person that it was indeed offensive, rather than just continuing having a conversation with them.

Same here, Im from the same part of the world as you though so I guess "halfcast" is a lot more offensive in London than is it north of Watford. Must remember I suppose. ;)

cock

Oh dear oh dear, you were warned abut abuse yesterday werent you by a mod? Hope you've got some front though and not another behind the screen "keyboard warrior"

Halfcast isnt a term you should really use, same as many of the other slang terms for black peope.

I honestly didnt know halfcast was one, which is strange as I spent 5 years on the midlands amatuer boxing circuit where about 35-40% of the people I met were non-white. Im pretty sure its more of a southern thing to be offended by it than up here as I sure someone would have pulled me up on it in 5 years. :cool:

ShyBoy

28-02-2005, 03:32 PM

I honestly didnt know halfcast was one, which is strange as I spent 5 years on the midlands amatuer boxing circuit where about 35-40% of the people I met were non-white. Im pretty sure its more of a southern thing to be offended by it than up here as I sure someone would have pulled me up on it in 5 years. :cool:

:yes: I live in Leicester and although there is a proportionally high amount of people who are non-white or have a different ethnic origin I have nevermet anybody offended by the term. It also depends on the term, if I called someone 'black scum' then that is obviously racist, and to a degree the word 'black' becomes racist, because without that word that is just an insulting remark, not a racist one.

Tommo100

28-02-2005, 03:35 PM

I agree :)

Blagsta

28-02-2005, 03:41 PM

Calm down, the kid didnt know, granted he's not being hugely tackful about it but theres no need for that.

The comment about not living in Brixton was the comment of a cock.

Blagsta

28-02-2005, 03:42 PM

Tommo100

28-02-2005, 03:42 PM

fairynuff Im a cock. :wave:

Blagsta

28-02-2005, 03:45 PM

Same here, Im from the same part of the world as you though so I guess "halfcast" is a lot more offensive in London than is it north of Watford. Must remember I suppose. ;)

I spent 10 years living in Birmingham and it was an offensive word there too.

Oh dear oh dear, you were warned abut abuse yesterday werent you by a mod? Hope you've got some front though and not another behind the screen "keyboard warrior"

I was warned for telling someone to foad. Cock is fairly mild in comparison. And yes, I would call you that to your face if you were being one in my company.

I honestly didnt know halfcast was one, which is strange as I spent 5 years on the midlands amatuer boxing circuit where about 35-40% of the people I met were non-white. Im pretty sure its more of a southern thing to be offended by it than up here as I sure someone would have pulled me up on it in 5 years. :cool:

As I said - I spent 10 years living in Birmingham (and another 2 in Sheffield), so, no, its not a southern thing.

ShyBoy

28-02-2005, 03:49 PM

As I said - I spent 10 years living in Birmingham (and another 2 in Sheffield), so, no, its not a southern thing.

Not meaning to sound offensive but you are just the one person, perhaps by some chance you've just met easily offended people? Again, I don't mean to cause offence or imply you have little life experience, on the contrary i beleive you'd seen a lot of people. But me and tommo do seem to have very similar perspectives on the matter :/ and I know I'm not trying to be argumentative, I've honestly never met anyone offended by it.

Blagsta

28-02-2005, 03:50 PM

Maybe they are offended by it, but can't be arsed to mention it?

katchika

28-02-2005, 03:53 PM

I live in Birmingham and it's a common term, used by many mixed race people themselves. I used to go out with a guy who would say he was "half caste".

I understand the explanation behind why some people may be offended by the term, and I don't ue it myself, but when kids all over the country say it, without any intention at all of being offensive, there is no need to jump on them and scream racist.

budda

28-02-2005, 03:56 PM

Its like many terms though isnt it, if it is used amoung the community like nig*** is then there is no intended message behind it.

However, it is certainly a term which you should watch when and if you say it.

Tommo100

01-03-2005, 06:48 PM

I live in Birmingham and it's a common term

Its a very common term, dont fall for the bullshit blagsta is saying, Im starting to wonder whether he has lived elsewhere when he says "everyone" was offended by it when everybody else on this board says no one is offended by it. Pathetic. :yuck:

I was warned for telling someone to foad. Cock is fairly mild in comparison. And yes, I would call you that to your face if you were being one in my company.

You might, but you would be looking at me from the floor about 5 secs after (if you're lucky that is as well)

Man Of Kent

01-03-2005, 09:02 PM

You might, but you would be looking at me from the floor about 5 secs after (if you're lucky that is as well)

Is this going to be a regular thing? Threats of violence? It's kinda dull already and you made less than 100 posts...

Tommo100

01-03-2005, 10:51 PM

I didnt threaten, I just told him what was going to happen.

Man Of Kent

01-03-2005, 11:21 PM

You da big man.

Blagsta

02-03-2005, 09:16 AM

Its a very common term, dont fall for the bullshit blagsta is saying, Im starting to wonder whether he has lived elsewhere when he says "everyone" was offended by it when everybody else on this board says no one is offended by it. Pathetic. :yuck:

Errrmmm...where did I say "everyone" was offended by it? I said that the mixed race people I'd spoken to were offended by it and it is (as bongbuddha says) generally known as an offensive term. I doubt that everyone is offended though, or maybe the people you use it around are offended but can't be arsed to correct you and privately think you're a cock. It wouldn't surprise me.
And fyi I lived in Balsall Heath, Sparkbrook and Moseley for 10 years and in Whitmore Reans in Wolverhampton for nearly a year. Where do you live?

You might, but you would be looking at me from the floor about 5 secs after (if you're lucky that is as well)

Pathetic. People who posture over bulletin boards are usually effete ineffectual wankers ime.

Blagsta

02-03-2005, 09:16 AM

I didnt threaten, I just told him what was going to happen.

cock

wheresmyplacebo

02-03-2005, 01:55 PM

Halfcast is a term that many people find offensive, because of the conotations of the word, it implies 'half baked' etc. Now of course you will roll your eyes and suggest this is PC gone mad, but it is a genuinely offensive term.

which everyone i know doesnt find offensive, thus it is okay to say it....

if im not saying it in a bad way, why shouldnt i be allowed to say it, my best mate is half cast, nothing wrong in that, his parents use it, everyone uses it

and for a police interview, well thats the way these days, they cant be seen to offend anyone whatsoever, not even the criminals :banghead:

budda

02-03-2005, 01:58 PM

which everyone i know doesnt find offensive, thus it is okay to say it....

if im not saying it in a bad way, why shouldnt i be allowed to say it, my best mate is half cast, nothing wrong in that, his parents use it, everyone uses it

and for a police interview, well thats the way these days, they cant be seen to offend anyone whatsoever, not even the criminals :banghead:

Some people arent offended by nig*** so surely by your logic its ok to use it?

And whether you like it or not criminals are still people and the police using words they know to be offensive isnt exactly going to help is it.

Blagsta

02-03-2005, 01:58 PM

Like everything else, its about context. If your mate uses it and you use it and no one is offended, then all well and good. But appreciate that some people might find it offensive in some situations and that you may well get a smack in the face if you use it in the wrong situation. Its like I might tell tasteless jokes down the pub to my mates, but I wouldn't to my mum.

Dom

02-03-2005, 03:35 PM

"Political correctness is a concept invented by hard-right forces to defend their right to be racist, to treat women in a degrading way and to be truly vile about gay people. They invent this idea of people who are politically correct, with a rigid, monstrous attitude to life so they can attack them. But we have all had to learn to modify our language. That's all part of being a decent human being." - Claire Short, as quoted on this board many moons ago (http://vbulletin.thesite.org/showthread.php?t=17163).

Yes, sometimes it does feel like we're going round in circles.

Man Of Kent

02-03-2005, 03:48 PM

Hello stranger, too important for us these days?

ETA: It's not often that I find myself agreeing with Clare Short... :eek:

Dom

02-03-2005, 04:21 PM

Hello stranger, too important for us these days?

Too busy more like it.

But it doesn't mean I'm not watching you all.

Especially you.

So watch it.

Kentish

02-03-2005, 04:24 PM

But it doesn't mean I'm not watching you all.
Big brother and political correctness in one thread. :nervous:

Man Of Kent

02-03-2005, 04:30 PM

Big brother and political correctness in one thread. :nervous:

Big jessie more like...

Dom

02-03-2005, 04:49 PM

Big jessie more like...

True.

Anyways, back on topic, there are times when I think the supposedly liberal elements of society do their causes no favour - and provide ample material for the "political correctness gone mad" brigade. Like this (http://education.guardian.co.uk/schoolmeals/story/0,15643,1428748,00.html?gusrc=ticker-103704). I mean, lighten up for Jessie's sake.

Kentish

02-03-2005, 04:58 PM

Anyways, back on topic, there are times when I think the supposedly liberal elements of society do their causes no favour - and provide ample material for the "political correctness gone mad" brigade. Like this (http://education.guardian.co.uk/schoolmeals/story/0,15643,1428748,00.html?gusrc=ticker-103704). I mean, lighten up for Jessie's sake.
Yeah. I was going to say the Clare Short's quote there was just going to stifle debate. There is such thing as 'political correctness gone mad' IMHO.

Blagsta

02-03-2005, 06:34 PM

I think that "political correctness" (for want of a better phrase) can be used as a way of pretending to deal with a problem without actually challenging the underlying power relationships/structures that are a cause of the problem. But to suggest that there is a specific "pc" agenda that is being pushed by certain individuals and organisations is absurd.