What you didn't read in the front pages: Spain votes Yes to the EU Constitution

[Aladdin]

Nearly 80% of Spanish voted yes to the EU Constitution.

Now I know that the Constitution will probably be rejected by one or anther of the 9 remaining countries to stage a referendum, but I thought I'd let you know nonetheless, because few newspapers (especially the tabloids) seem to be aware of it, judging by the lack of news on the front pages.

Had the Spanish voted No, you can bet your bottom dollar the Express, HateMail and the S*n would have cleared their front pages of David Beckham and anything else, and reported this at length.

Funny how journalism works in this country, isn't it? :rolleyes:

[Fiend_85]

That's journalism for you, you can't expect balance.

But it's excellent news.

[Flashman's Ghost]

It would have been bigger news if Spain had said no given that a) it would have derailed the entire European Project and b) every prediction was that given there was no oppossition was that it would win by a huge majority.

given that only 44% of the electorate bothered to vote I wouldn't call it a ringing endorsement.

[budda]

given that only 44% of the electorate bothered to vote I wouldn't call it a ringing endorsement.

Its highly likely we will get about that figure turning out in the General Election.

[Fiend_85]

On our general election, is there a minimum turnout before the vote is invalid?

[Man Of Kent]

On our general election, is there a minimum turnout before the vote is invalid?

Not that I'm aware of.

[Fiend_85]

That sucks.

[Man Of Kent]

given that only 44% of the electorate bothered to vote I wouldn't call it a ringing endorsement.

Given the polls which had taken place previously, I would suspect that many didn't bother to vote because they felt it was a "no-brainer".

[Man Of Kent]

Nearly 80% of Spanish voted yes to the EU Constitution...

...Had the Spanish voted No, you can bet your bottom dollar the Express, HateMail and the S*n would have cleared their front pages of David Beckham and anything else, and reported this at length.

Funny how journalism works in this country, isn't it? :rolleyes:

Not really, because it's hardly groundbraking news.

You wouldn't expect to see front pages devoted to the headline "Sun Sets", would you?

[Man Of Kent]

That sucks.

Indeed. It's a matter of record that are larger number of people didn't vote at all in the last election, than actually voted for Labour...

Still, how would you ensure a minimum turnout and what would you do if we didn't get one? After all, everyone eligible has the opportunity...

[Fiend_85]

If we didn't get the minimum, we'd probably have to have a coelition government before another election. Minimum would have to be anything lower than 35-40%

[Man Of Kent]

A coalition based on what though? If the minimum turnout hadn't happened, who would get what seats etc...

[Aladdin]

Not really, because it's hardly groundbraking news.

You wouldn't expect to see front pages devoted to the headline "Sun Sets", would you?

You could certainly expect the headlines on all the usual suspect newspapers if a euro-sceptic country had voted No and it had been widely expected.

Not so much what makes surprising news as to which news suit our agenda and which don't.

[Aladdin]

And here's the perfect example:

Socialist opposition party wins election in Portugal with absolute majority (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4281013.stm)

Now, perhaps the official result was not known until late... but exit polls would have clearly indicated the landslide well before newspapers went to print.

A double dose of bad news for right wingers/europhobes- thank god for David Beckham eh? ;)

[budda]

But its not just newspapers hiding news, it is newspapers writing copy which they know people want.

Very few people care that the Spanish voted yes, depressingly enough loads of people care about Becks and his kid.

[Flashman's Ghost]

Most Sun readers probably know two things about Spain a) David Beckham plays football there and b) its got some nice beaches.

I suspected the average reader of the Sun is not that interested in the intracies of Spanish politics and how that affects the EU. If you want serious International News you don't read a tabloid.

[Man Of Kent]

You could certainly expect the headlines on all the usual suspect newspapers if a euro-sceptic country had voted No and it had been widely expected.

Not so much what makes surprising news as to which news suit our agenda and which don't.

And it's worth noting that neither story is given prominence on the BBC news website either. Or are you suggesting that they are a right wing euro-skeptic news source too?

[Aladdin]

They were given top priority for most of the evening yesterday- both on the website and on BBC news bulletins.

The BBC is not a newspaper- it's an 'instant' news service able to provide news as they happen, via TV, radio and internet. The Yes vote got plenty coverage when it happened.

Newspapers on the other hand issue their 'bulletins' once a day and report the most important news of the last 24 hours. The Yes vote should be on their front pages. I have just searched the S*n's website and there isn't even a fucking mention of the vote anywhere.

Pathetic in the extreme. They should not be allowed to call themselves a "news"paper.

[Man Of Kent]

Actually I was being picky, because I'd heard this last night myself :p

But then as NQA commented, it's hardly of interest to the majority of the population because a yes vote in Spain doesn;t actually affect any of us directly because it means that the system just continues as planned. Only a no vote matters.

Just out of interest, though, how many Spanish Newspapers were anti? And many many of the political parties voiced their concern? And not having seen the UK papers today, is it frontpage new anywhere?

[Aladdin]

All the major newspapers were in favour. As for the political parties, Izquierda Unida (used to be the Communist Party of Spain- sort of anyway) and some of the separatist Catalan and Basque parties were against I believe.

The Popular Party was in favour, albeit with gritted teeth. Not because they're against the Constitution but because they're still reeling from losing the election last year and their default policy is to oppose everything the government does or says. They also had a bit of conflict of interest, because the Spanish Catholic Church, absolutely spitting blood at the moment because of the government's new laws legalising gay marriage and making abortion more accessible to women, asked all Catholics to vote No, and we all know what good Catholics the Popular Party boys are.

:D

[Flashman's Ghost]

I think we're being a bit paranoid about Sun reporting. Has the Sun ever put any European election result on its front page? I must have missed the editions where it celebrated the results of right wing parties winning in Europe.

The tabloids didn't ignore it because they're anti-Europe - they ignored it because Becks and Posh have just had a new baby, which is more newsworthy to the majority of tabloid readers than Spanish politics.

[Aladdin]

I remember clearly Norway (I think it was Norway) voting no to the Euro (which has absolutely zero relevance to Great Britain, unlike the Constitution), and the S*n devoting its entire front page and at least 4 pages inside to it, with great joy.

Other papers were a bit more subtle but they also ensured that news were widely reported within their pages- again, on an issue that was of no relevance whatsoever to Great Britain.

[Flashman's Ghost]

But papers print what they think there readers will find interesting.

The Guardian is pretty poor on defence and Northern Ireland reporting and the Daily Telegraph is no better on local government and housing.

Now it could be because the editorship of one is a bunch of pinko commie loving PIRA supporters and the editorship of the other is are right wing neo-fascist aristocrats dedicated to enslaving the working class.

Or alternatively because much of the readership of the Guardian has little interest in the intracies of Defence and NI and the readership of the Telegraph are not into the social housing and local govt.

The Sun would soon go out of business if it concentrated on European politics. The Mirror is broadly pro-Europe, but it still went for the Beckham story.

[Dear Wendy]

I remember clearly Norway (I think it was Norway) voting no to the Euro (which has absolutely zero relevance to Great Britain, unlike the Constitution), and the S*n devoting its entire front page and at least 4 pages inside to it, with great joy.

Other papers were a bit more subtle but they also ensured that news were widely reported within their pages- again, on an issue that was of no relevance whatsoever to Great Britain.

Norway are not members of the EU :p

It was either Sweden or Denmark if it was a Scandinavian country, and most likely Denmark as Englands vote was said to depend on the Danish outcome.

[Aladdin]

I stand corrected Jacqs :D

For some bizarre reason (and not because the paper is prone to stereotyping ;) ) the S*n chose to illustrate the story with a massive photo of a Viking cartoon character called Hagar the Terrible.

Then again we all know the intellectual depth of that fine newspaper.

[budda]

I might point out Aladdin, that the Metro, Londons crappy free paper has it on the front page.

[stargalaxy]

So, with a turnout of less than 50%, and polls showing that 90% of Spaniards didn't even know what was in the constitution, and with one Spanish minister saying "it's so good you don't even need to read it", what chance is there that Britain will accept the constution?

[Aladdin]

No chance of Britain saying yes. Just as there was no chance of Spain voting No.

Bascially, 90% of people here don't know the first thing about the Constitution either. But their minds are already made up (just as the minds of the Spaniards were already made up).

[Yerascrote]

No chance of Britain saying yes. Just as there was no chance of Spain voting No.

Bascially, 90% of people here don't know the first thing about the Constitution either. But their minds are already made up (just as the minds of the Spaniards were already made up).

thats politics for ya!

[The Matadore]

Nearly 80% of Spanish voted yes to the EU Constitution.

:lol:

On a 40% turnout? Only one in three voters backed it, and in a country as slavishly pro-EU as Spain this is pathetic. Not only did the government and all the media support it, they reeled in loads of celebrities too, and still, only 1 in 3 were for it.

Yet again, another example of the enormous democratic defecit at the heart of the EU.

[Aladdin]

Much better than most local and European elections held in many parts of Britain, thank you very much.

Probably as good if not better than the turnout when the referendum is held here.

And only 17% lower turnout than those Iraqi elections that were said to be by some (including you) a resounding success...

[The Matadore]

If thats the ebst you can hope for on any sort of turnout, then the whole project deserves to fail because of the massive lack of support amongst those who actually matter in a democratic society - THE PEOPLE.

[Yerascrote]

then the whole project deserves to fail because of the massive lack of support amongst those who actually matter in a democratic society - THE PEOPLE.

Great!!! matadore has turned a new leaf, by saying that, i suppose you must also agree that project Operation Iraqi Freedom should fail because of it's lack of support amongst those who actually matter in a democratic society- THE PEOPLE.

[The Matadore]

Iraq had just had its first elections for 60 years, I would call that the will of THE PEOPLE.

And given the choice, I'm willing to bet the majority of Iraqis, ahd they been asked, would have backed the war before it started.

[Yerascrote]

Iraq had just had its first elections for 60 years, I would call that the will of THE PEOPLE.

And given the choice, I'm willing to bet the majority of Iraqis, ahd they been asked, would have backed the war before it started.

i'm not talking about Iraq, i'm talking about the millions of people who marched on the streets of london, sydney, washington, new york, rome, i'm talking about the worldwide public outrage at the reasons for going to war, thats what i'm talking about.

[lukesh]

Wow.... isn't it just amazing? Nearly 80% of the Spanish electorate voted yes to the European Constitution.
Some of you are a complete joke.

Hereare some FACTS........
ONLY 45% of the elecorate bothered to vote. This shows that this is not an indication of the majority of the Spanish.
A massive 90% havn't read the Constitution. This means that the Spanish don't know what they have let them selves in for.
OK... 80% of the minority that bothered to cast their vote, voted Yes. But come on.... it's Spain. They have benefited so much from the E.U and if it wasn't for the E.U. Spain wouldn't be the great place that it is today! The Spanish are bound to vote yes!

Also, the Spanish are more passionate about Europe.

So the referendum was far, far from a victory.

May I add about the British tabolid press not reporting on the issue. Firstly, they are tabloids remember Aladdin. These sort of papers are not for people who want to read politics are they?

[lukesh]

i'm not talking about Iraq, i'm talking about the millions of people who marched on the streets of london, sydney, washington, new york, rome, i'm talking about the worldwide public outrage at the reasons for going to war, thats what i'm talking about.
A million in the UK marched.... hardly everyone is it?

[The Matadore]

Good fucking point. Besides, it was just the usual left wing loonies and some muslims who marched anyway.

I find that hilarious, those anti american zealots on the left are creating an alliance with fanatical muslims nutters against the USA, thinking that they can be 'enlightened' by socialist values! :lol:

[lukesh]

Good fucking point. Besides, it was just the usual left wing loonies and some muslims who marched anyway.

I find that hilarious, those anti american zealots on the left are creating an alliance with fanatical muslims nutters against the USA, thinking that they can be 'enlightened' by socialist values! :lol:
Real socialism is virtually dead in the UK so no need to worry.Let the Europeans do their thing.

[Fiend_85]

A million in the UK marched.... hardly everyone is it?
Average turnout for a march? 10,000? 100,000 for the really big ones. Do you have any idea how many people 1,000,000 is, how much impact that many people have? Clearly not.

[Aladdin]

If thats the ebst you can hope for on any sort of turnout, then the whole project deserves to fail because of the massive lack of support amongst those who actually matter in a democratic society - THE PEOPLE. I wonder if you would be saying the same thing if Britain votes No but the turnout happens to be 45%. :rolleyes:

[Aladdin]

Wow.... isn't it just amazing? Nearly 80% of the Spanish electorate voted yes to the European Constitution.
Some of you are a complete joke.

Hereare some FACTS........
ONLY 45% of the elecorate bothered to vote. This shows that this is not an indication of the majority of the Spanish.

Could this be the same Luke who constantly goes on about Teletex polls in which only a couple thousand of sad souls take part, and pretends that those two thousand people represent the population of Britain?

Nice consistency mate :D


A massive 90% havn't read the Constitution. This means that the Spanish don't know what they have let them selves in for.
I reckon that's still far more people than those who have read the Constitution in Britain... most of which are simply saying NO! without even fucking knowing what the Constitution is about, letting their europhobia speak on their behalf.

It cuts both ways Luke.


So the referendum was far, far from a victory. LOL. I like your way of thinking and window-dressing bad news Luke. Very positive attitude.


May I add about the British tabolid press not reporting on the issue. Firstly, they are tabloids remember Aladdin. These sort of papers are not for people who want to read politics are they? Wrong. They will report politics and Constitutional matters at full length if the news suits their agenda. When the news don't suit their agenda, they'll simply pretend it didn't happen.

Nice consistency and journalistic values there!

[Renzo]

Lukesh and Matadore:

Who is to say that the 56% of the population who didnt vote are opposed to it?
Maybe they supported and knew it was going to go through so didnt vote.
Or perhaps they just didn't care either way.

You can't say just because of a low turnout the vote isn't acceptable. The turnout was higher than the European elections in the UK, does that mean the results are not valid and we should not accept our countries representation in the European Parliament? No, no it does not.

[wheresmyplacebo]

noone would be able to make sense of the constitution whatsoever - i cant name any constitution for a group/company/government that does make sense, not even the rocksoc at uni has a understandable one

[Aladdin]

Well said Renzo.

I look forward to Luke denouncing the UKIP's success in the European elections as pointless and meaningless. At the end of the day not many people at all bothered to vote...

[twisted_trinity]

i feel like i live in a country of twits. :(

[MrG]

i feel like i live in a country of twits. :(
theres no smoke without a fire

[Toadborg]

On the subject of reading/understanding laws, i personally have never and probably will never read in full the actual wording of a law introduced in the UK, does that mean that my vote is completely uninformed and worthless?

Lukesh I am guessing that you have not read the Treasury reports on the Euro, I take it you will not vote in that referendum then?

[stargalaxy]

As I said on February 8th, "The right to vote is as important as the right not to vote, and sometimes has to be exercised." I was applying it in the context of a General Election at the time, but I think it can be applied on a wider basis.
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Original Comment (http://vbulletin.thesite.org.uk/showpost.php?p=1232314&postcount=26)

[Man Of Kent]

All the major newspapers were in favour. As for the political parties, Izquierda Unida (used to be the Communist Party of Spain- sort of anyway) and some of the separatist Catalan and Basque parties were against I believe.

Doesn't that worry you though?

What kind of balanced debate does that ensure?

Much as the media over here only present one picture, and it's wrong, does the same apply for Spain?

[Aladdin]

Possibly. Spanish media has always been a funny bunch though. In any case it hasn't got even 10% of the influence media has in this country.

[Man Of Kent]

Maybe not in so few hands, but you cannot deny that they have influence.

[lukesh]

Could this be the same Luke who constantly goes on about Teletex polls in which only a couple thousand of sad souls take part, and pretends that those two thousand people represent the population of Britain?
More accurate indication than you're opinion may I say.



I reckon that's still far more people than those who have read the Constitution in Britain... most of which are simply saying NO! without even fucking knowing what the Constitution is about, letting their europhobia speak on their behalf.

It cuts both ways Luke.

You only ever critisise the British not knowing anything about the constitution, you never say anything about the Spanish not knowing a thing about it. Why?
Because they have voted in your favour.

LOL. I like your way of thinking and window-dressing bad news Luke. Very positive attitude.

Whats to celebrate? Less than alf voting on something they know nothing about? I would of respected it more if it had a 60% turnout.

Wrong. They will report politics and Constitutional matters at full length if the news suits their agenda. When the news don't suit their agenda, they'll simply pretend it didn't happen.

Nice consistency and journalistic values there!
If tabloid readers would like to read about how wonderful the result was in Spain then they would read the Guardian.

[lukesh]

You can't say just because of a low turnout the vote isn't acceptable. Who said it wasn't accepted? :confused:
What I said was that the vote wasn't aclear indication of Spanish opinion. It probably was but there wasn't proof to apoint that as less than half voted.

[lukesh]

Well said Renzo.

I look forward to Luke denouncing the UKIP's success in the European elections as pointless and meaningless. At the end of the day not many people at all bothered to vote...
If Britian votes the UKIP then of course I'll congratulate it as thats what the British people want. However I don't wish for the UK to pull out of the E.U but not to join the Constitution as its all about copying the US and destroying NATO with a common policy for Defense.

[piccolo]

Given the polls which had taken place previously, I would suspect that many didn't bother to vote because they felt it was a "no-brainer". I read a quote from one Spaniard who said that many people wouldn't vote because they hadn't read their own constitution and couldn't make an informed decision which I thought was interesting.

[dr_carter]

If Britian votes the UKIP then of course I'll congratulate it as thats what the British people want. However I don't wish for the UK to pull out of the E.U but not to join the Constitution as its all about copying the US and destroying NATO with a common policy for Defense.

I think you mean defenCe.

[lukesh]

On the subject of reading/understanding laws, i personally have never and probably will never read in full the actual wording of a law introduced in the UK, does that mean that my vote is completely uninformed and worthless?

Lukesh I am guessing that you have not read the Treasury reports on the Euro, I take it you will not vote in that referendum then?
Brown said we are not ready to join the Euro, Business is booming too, therefore Iwould vote no to join the Euro.

I don't think it is completely necessary to full read legislation in order to vote but you must understand it briefly in order to have an opinion on it therefore vote. On the BBC website, most Spanish havn't had a clue what it was about.

[lukesh]

I think you mean defenCe.
yeah, sorry.

[Aladdin]

More accurate indication than you're opinion may I say..LOL. Fat chance Luke... :D



You only ever critisise the British not knowing anything about the constitution, you never say anything about the Spanish not knowing a thing about it. Why?
Because they have voted in your favour. When have I done that?

Whats to celebrate? Less than alf voting on something they know nothing about? I would of respected it more if it had a 60% turnout.
As I said earlier, the European elections had a turnout well below 60%. However your heroes at the time the UKIP did well and you very much respected and lauded their 'success'.

Your hypocrisy knows no limits.


If tabloid readers would like to read about how wonderful the result was in Spain then they would read the Guardian. What the fuck are you talking about? :confused:

Are you saying that tabloid readers have no mind and the tabloids must form an opinion for them and 'protect' them from news they don't want to hear?

I'd always suspected so... Thanks for confirming it.

[Aladdin]

Who said it wasn't accepted? :confused:
What I said was that the vote wasn't aclear indication of Spanish opinion. It probably was but there wasn't proof to apoint that as less than half voted. Bull-fucking-shit.

A referendum is the best indication of a country's opinion. Many millions expressed their opinion, as opposed to the 2,000 teletext polls you love so much and claim to show the will of the British public.

Are you on ket?

[Man Of Kent]

The vote is a perfect indication of Spainish opinion.

More voted for than against, whilst the rest offered no opinion either way.

What more do you want Luke?

[stargalaxy]

My only question amidst all this is how you'll all react when Britain votes in September 2154 or whenever the referendum comes along.

[lukesh]

As I said earlier, the European elections had a turnout well below 60%. However your heroes at the time the UKIP did well and you very much respected and lauded their 'success'.

When it comes down to a constitution I expect them to be higher than 40% mate. No one really cares about the European elections. Constitutional change is vital to be voted on, with a high majority.

UKIP heroes? Where does this come from?


Are you saying that tabloid readers have no mind and the tabloids must form an opinion for them and 'protect' them from news they don't want to hear?
Thats what tabloids are all about, accept it!

[lukesh]

Bull-fucking-shit.

A referendum is the best indication of a country's opinion. Many millions expressed their opinion, as opposed to the 2,000 teletext polls you love so much and claim to show the will of the British public.

Are you on ket?Less than half of the population voted. I critisise that.

[Aladdin]

When it comes down to a constitution I expect them to be higher than 40% mate. No one really cares about the European elections. Constitutional change is vital to be voted on, with a high majority.
You might not care about the European elections. A lot of people do. It is amazing that some people will not care who is representing Britain's interests in Europe...

It is as important as anything else.

Thats what tabloids are all about, accept it! That's what I've been saying Luke- that tabloids are worthless rags masquerading as newspapers that cannot be trusted to tell a single truth other than the date and the price.

[Aladdin]

Less than half of the population voted. I critisise that. Not ideal. But it doesn't make it any less valid. And it is a perfect indication of what the Spanish think and want.

[lukesh]

Ok the spanish voted for the constitution.... I'll leave it at that.

[Fiend_85]

WTF? Why did you say that? Any semi-literate fool can see that the spanish voted for it.

[lukesh]

WTF? Why did you say that? Any semi-literate fool can see that the spanish voted for it.
Want the fuck are you onabout now?

[Fiend_85]

You said

Ok the spanish voted for the constitution

Well no shit sherlock.

[lukesh]

You said



Well no shit sherlock.
yeah and??? Whats your point?

[Fiend_85]

You post whore, what was the point in stating the bloody obvious?

[lukesh]

You post whore, what was the point in stating the bloody obvious?
Fiend shut up, let the debate close please.

[Fiend_85]

:rolleyes: right... because you're pointless comment helped that as well.

[lukesh]

:rolleyes: right... because you're pointless comment helped that as well.
and you carrying on is even more pointless.... IDIOT!

[Aladdin]

Will you two get a room already? ;)

[Fiend_85]

Hi aladdin! :wave: