mac/pc

[dolly dagger]

Which one would u choose and why?

[chaos_insomniac]

PC. They're better. ;)

[Hellfire]

See now this is a un fair question, the mac has superb editing (video, picture and music) qualitys and the dual screan is lovely.. power.. large and fast but not so reliable.. but game wise and pratical use it'd be a pc, fast more reliable.. and you can play games :-p thats the best bit, also i prefer the layout/desktop on the PC/Windows

ETA - point of post, i can't answer :-p

[Crispy]

I'm Mac boy @ heart:) When they create computers like this:

http://images.apple.com/macmini/images/indextop20050111.jpg

http://images.apple.com/macmini/images/indexdimensions20050111.jpg

[wheresmyplacebo]

in terms of versitility in terms of software and hardware, a pc

a pc with good software can kill a mac video editing stuff for example

and games etc kills them too

[Mist]

Windows / Pc, because they are better.

[x .beepbeep.]

I'm Mac boy @ heart:) When they create computers like this:

http://images.apple.com/macmini/images/indextop20050111.jpg

http://images.apple.com/macmini/images/indexdimensions20050111.jpg

so youre only into aesthetics? fair enough. You could get a pc to look as cool like.

Im a pc boy if you hadnt gathered, i use apple macs everyday near and have yet to be convinced at all. My laptop owns over anymac, i have started to do video editing and i already do exstensive music making on it.

I loathe windows by the way : P or at least what it is and stands for. It could be done quite nicely.

[Crispy]

so youre only into aesthetics?

Nah the spec is pretty impressive for the size & @ £399 quite reasonable compared to other Apple products.

[Makoto]

I'll take Linux running KDE 3.2.1 over MAC tbh. MAC stole the KDE desktop :(

[MrG]

See now this is a un fair question, the mac has superb editing (video, picture and music) qualitys and the dual screan is lovely.. power.. large and fast but not so reliable.. but game wise and pratical use it'd be a pc, fast more reliable.. and you can play games :-p thats the best bit, also i prefer the layout/desktop on the PC/Windows

ETA - point of post, i can't answer :-p

you can dual screen in windows as well

[Acrobat]

Most people here will do the whole MACSUXXXX thing to death with this question I expect. Personally, I prefer Macs as I find them easier to use-I picked up OS X in about a day, but like people have said, it all depends on what you need it for.

[Indrid Cold]

A big part of why I want a computer are games. So it's PC hands down. As for the systems, a dual boot Linux-Windows is IMO the best.

[wheresmyplacebo]

Final. Cut. Pro.

PC's can never be as reliable and well built as Macs because all the components are made by different manufacturers and then stuck together in millions of different combinations. It is very hard to test every possible match up and therefore you frequently get buggy drivers and other annoyances. Apple have control over the hardware and software and so deliever a complete well made package, so you can spend your time being creative or getting on with work rather than installing 8 different spyware/anitvirus/firewall programs and regularly having to format/reinstall...
The only weakness Macs have is that they dont support as many games. So buy a console...


its called monopolising the hardware market :no:

my computer has zero hardware issues :thumb:

and mosty viruses etc pray on peoples stupidity, as well windows flaws since you should know what youre recieving etc :(

and the mac mini aint that good for its price ;) and you cant beat its size but you can beat its aesthetics ;)

[Kiezo]

K pretend for a minute you aren't an amature film maker, what exactly are Mac's good for? (Hint: Nothing a PC can't do 20 times better)

Even if you don't game (which I don't), most of the programs people use are PC only. Sure, there's Mac versions of them but they're nowhere near as good.

Assuming you're not a fucking moron, and don't buy your desktop PC from PC World, what exactly do you have to worry about in terms of hardware conflicts, Windows crashing every two minutes (why do people still say this BTW? My system hasn't crashed in literally months, and my uptime is nearing 3 weeks with no system slowdown/gliches).

Also, as we're assuming you aren't a moron, you won't be using Internet Explorer, KaZaA, or downloading email attachments called "Anna_Kournakova.jpg.exe" so you have practically nothing to worry about in terms of viruses and system exploits.

Give me a top of the range Alienware PC over a top of the range Mac any day :thumb:

[jake0]

also anyone who thinks macs are better than pc's purely for the fact that "macs are cute" need to be shot.

[Fiend_85]

true.

[ultimatewisdom]

Reasons Why Macs are better than PC's:
HARDWARE:-
* The CPU's are RISC and not CISC... a reduced instruction set means less 'messy' machine code algorithms - therefore faster
* G5's - the G5 processors are very VERY good. Minimal pipelining, fast bus, good amounts of multi-level cache. They are 64bit and have speeds of up to 2.8GHz (You cannot compare PC Processors and Mac Processors GHz speeds by the way as they run in completely different ways). And you can get dual processor machines (and I know you can on PC's but Apple CPU's and Apple Circuits are refined to work together - so guarenteed to be the best they can be)
* You can put a hell of a lot of RAM into an average/home Apple computer (something that only a home built or specialist PC can do - and possibly the odd home pc)
* The boards within Apple computers are (and have been for a long time) suited to audio, video, graphics editing and loading.
SOFTWARE:-
* For the average user, whatever you can get for a PC you can get for a Mac.
* The latest Mac OS series of operating systems is Mac OS X. OS X is based on Unix, and the whole Unix part of OS X is open Source. This means that the OS is worked on by people all over the world and is therefore being refined all the time for all sorts of things. Unix on OS X means that most Unix and Linux can be ported (if they havent already) to run on your Mac.
* Unix means programs can be written in C and run in a background terminal meaning minimal damage to the system.
* Games run much much better on a mac because of the focus on video/graphics. And there are a hell of a lot of Mac games out there.
* Mac OS X is very very easy to use. It is possible to learn how it all works in one day.
* Most Microsoft Software is actually available for Mac e.g: Windows Media Player, MSN, I.E., Office (Word, Powerpoint, Excel, Entourage, Outlook)
* There are Apple or Open alternatives to Microsoft Software which often run much much better e.g: VLC & iTunes, aMSN, Firefox, Safari, iWork (Keynote & Pages), iLife (iTunes, iDVD, iPhoto, iMovie & Garageband <- which are all included with a new Mac)
* Software such as The Adobe Products, Quark XPress and Macromedia products are all developed specifically for macs, with Windows PCs as a 2nd view.
LINUX:
* Linux is available for mac. In several flavours too: Debian, Mandrake, YellowDog & SuSE. and quite a few other distros. - and they run just as well as the PC versions if not better.

AESTHETICS:
*Yes Apple macs are much much better looking than PC's, but that should be a reason to hate them (as some people do), it also should be the only reason why to love them.

iPOD:
* Apple make iPod - which is just fantastic.

JOBS:
* You are more likely to get paid higher if you have knowledge of macs as well as Windows PC's.


I hope my little guide has helped you PC lovers come around to the fact that Macs are generally better than PC's. It hopefully has provided some of the (Aesthetics-Only-reason)mac users with a little more knowledge.

I have been using Macs since I was 7, so thats 12 years of experience with Macs. My father is a Mac operator for a big advertising/publishing company and has been a mac user for many more years than I have. Macs are Practical, Useful and Fun - just remember that!

ciao for now - Daniel.

[ultimatewisdom]

I forgot to say, there are hardly any Mac Viruses. - its only Windows users that suffer those due to the unsecure OS.

[ultimatewisdom]

Windows crashing every two minutes (why do people still say this BTW? My system hasn't crashed in literally months, and my uptime is nearing 3 weeks with no system slowdown/gliches).

I have had my iMac G3 400MHz DV for about 5 Years now. It has never crashed, I do alot of image work, as well as alot of programming work. I've also played around with things like Bochs on mac. I have played games on here and I have even updated it through several of the OS's (9.1, 9.2, 10.1.5 & 10.3). My iMac has never crashed, I have never had a virus.

[Guest_]

Mac's are alright. Nice processors (which from a non-technical point of view, probably makes fuck all difference).
You can bolt more stuff on to a PC. Windows XP is pretty good, too.

I think Apple are about as cuntish as Microsoft as a corporation (albeit on a smaller scale).

[Mist]

Reasons Why Macs are better than PC's:
HARDWARE:-
* The CPU's are RISC and not CISC... a reduced instruction set means less 'messy' machine code algorithms - therefore faster


RISC chips put the dependancy on the software. Today's RISC chips include instruction sets almost as involved as CISC chips.

How fast do you want it to go? Chips (even CISC) are fast enough these days that most of the time you will be waiting on other hardware.


* G5's - the G5 processors are very VERY good. Minimal pipelining, fast bus, good amounts of multi-level cache. They are 64bit and have speeds of up to 2.8GHz (You cannot compare PC Processors and Mac Processors GHz speeds by the way as they run in completely different ways). And you can get dual processor machines (and I know you can on PC's but Apple CPU's and Apple Circuits are refined to work together - so guarenteed to be the best they can be)


Hmm. Well you can get quad processor or more motherboards for intel or AMD architectures, that I'm sure the motherboard makers will say are "as best as they can be". What's your point?


* You can put a hell of a lot of RAM into an average/home Apple computer (something that only a home built or specialist PC can do - and possibly the odd home pc)


Again, what sort of RAM are you talking about here? I can stick more GB than I would ever need in this PC here, most PC motherboards will easily accept more memory than the average consumer will ever need.


* The boards within Apple computers are (and have been for a long time) suited to audio, video, graphics editing and loading.


Of course, and this has always been the Mac entusiasts main argument. However, increasingly in this day and age the PC is used more and more for all of those applications and the products available will match any Mac equivalent.


SOFTWARE:-
* For the average user, whatever you can get for a PC you can get for a Mac.


But, for the average user, whatever you can get for a Mac will most likely be available for a PC both cheaper and earlier. Games are practically non-existant.


* The latest Mac OS series of operating systems is Mac OS X. OS X is based on Unix, and the whole Unix part of OS X is open Source. This means that the OS is worked on by people all over the world and is therefore being refined all the time for all sorts of things. Unix on OS X means that most Unix and Linux can be ported (if they havent already) to run on your Mac.


But Linux will run native on x86 chips....


* Unix means programs can be written in C and run in a background terminal meaning minimal damage to the system.


The same program could be ran on a PC running linux, the line of reasoning is irrelevant to the PC/Mac debate.


* Games run much much better on a mac because of the focus on video/graphics. And there are a hell of a lot of Mac games out there.


Nonsense.

Look at Half Life 2 or Far Cry running even off of my PC and tell me how much better it would be on a Mac. And unless the situation has changed a heck of a lot in the last few years the Mac game library is leagues behind that of PCs.


* Mac OS X is very very easy to use. It is possible to learn how it all works in one day.


Limited is it ;)

I can learn how to use Windows in less than a day because I already know it.


* Most Microsoft Software is actually available for Mac e.g: Windows Media Player, MSN, I.E., Office (Word, Powerpoint, Excel, Entourage, Outlook)


But ALL of that software is available for your PC. :)


* There are Apple or Open alternatives to Microsoft Software which often run much much better e.g: VLC & iTunes, aMSN, Firefox, Safari, iWork (Keynote & Pages), iLife (iTunes, iDVD, iPhoto, iMovie & Garageband <- which are all included with a new Mac)


As are a lot of those titles, or similar products.


* Software such as The Adobe Products, Quark XPress and Macromedia products are all developed specifically for macs, with Windows PCs as a 2nd view.


Fair enough. I'm sure an equal or greater number of applications go the other way.



LINUX:
* Linux is available for mac. In several flavours too: Debian, Mandrake, YellowDog & SuSE. and quite a few other distros. - and they run just as well as the PC versions if not better.


I've no real metrics to agree or disagree.


AESTHETICS:
*Yes Apple macs are much much better looking than PC's, but that should be a reason to hate them (as some people do), it also should be the only reason why to love them.


I'm not sure exactly what you are saying here. Either way, you can customise a PC to make it look pretty much exactly how you like. You can take your PC and put it in a case made of Lego, if that's your bag.


iPOD:
* Apple make iPod - which is just fantastic.


matter of opinion, and not that relevant.


JOBS:
* You are more likely to get paid higher if you have knowledge of macs as well as Windows PC's.


Depends on your field, methinks.


I hope my little guide has helped you PC lovers come around to the fact that Macs are generally better than PC's. It hopefully has provided some of the (Aesthetics-Only-reason)mac users with a little more knowledge.

I have been using Macs since I was 7, so thats 12 years of experience with Macs. My father is a Mac operator for a big advertising/publishing company and has been a mac user for many more years than I have. Macs are Practical, Useful and Fun - just remember that!

ciao for now - Daniel.

Well, it was an entertaining read.

Some points to consider in the opposite direction, taken from a TV programme a while back -

Pound for pound, performance wise, Macs are much more expensive than PCs.

Repairing anything on a Mac that breaks is an expensive thing to do, spare parts for PCs are readily available for peanuts.

I believe that when the programme did a comparison of the two, its outcome was that the redeming feature of the mac product was that you could be up and running and connected to the Internet with a Mac out of the box within about ten minutes, for a PC it took about an hour.

But that would only apply the very first time you used the thing.

[ultimatewisdom]

RISC chips put the dependancy on the software. Today's RISC chips include instruction sets almost as involved as CISC chips.
Its still not as efficient, less complex instructions mean closer interaction with circuits.


Of course, and this has always been the Mac entusiasts main argument. However, increasingly in this day and age the PC is used more and more for all of those applications and the products available will match any Mac equivalent.
A strong PC may be able to do the same sort of thins - this is true. but for reliance Macs will always be used. If you go into any graphics company, they only use macs (with maybe a few windows pc's for ftp/tranfers and Linux boxes for proofer control and as servers).


But Linux will run native on x86 chips....
Linux runs natively on PPC chips too, YellowDog is specifically PPC but SuSE have a version of Linux for PPC. Theres Debian too. All which run natively on Mac machines, no need for interpreters, emulators or translators!!!!! - You got that really wrong mate.
Also awhile ago Apple worked with OSF to make their own version of Linux (which is still available and being developed) its called mkLinux.



...unless the situation has changed a heck of a lot in the last few years the Mac game library is leagues behind that of PCs.

It has.


Limited is it ;)
I can learn how to use Windows in less than a day because I already know it.

I meant its easy to use, and its basics can be understood within a day. Things like the Darwin Unix terminal or the Mach Kernel most probably wouldnt.


Depends on your field, methinks.

Tis true. But generally, if you're getting into programming or visual/audio development then mac experience is very good to have. (Plus I have noticed that Macs are becoming more popular as Receptionist/Secretary aids recently)



Pound for pound, performance wise, Macs are much more expensive than PCs.

Macs are constantly coming down in price - e.g. the Mac mini is cheap... so are the basic eMacs and iMacs.


Repairing anything on a Mac that breaks is an expensive thing to do, spare parts for PCs are readily available for peanuts.

The spare part thing is true. if you have a PowerMac, most things can be replaced easily. e.g. Ram, Video/graphics card, sound card, hard drive, disk drives. But if you go more with the iMac side then you are limited to changing Ram and Airport only. This is true, but this is the price we have to take to have easy use and the most effective plug and play ability. - I personally dont mind not having the most adaptable system in the world it doesnt effect me at all.

[Mist]

a) that programme is really really old. not really relevant as both platforms have moved on A LOT. -that was using an original iMac G3, since then we've had the bowl and LCD G4s and now the incredible feat of engineering which is a G5 in a 2 inch thick flat screen...

b) A chav'd up rude boy will tell you his nova has 350 BHP. Personally i'd rather have a more expensive Aston Martin etc with equivalent BHP...

You get what you pay for. That's why iPods have caused such a stir, they may be expensive but they are worth it. There's a reason why you don't get endless torrents of mac users complain about their purchase and crap operating systems, in fact it is quite the opposite, most are very happy with their purchase and happy to tell others.

The programme is old but its points are still relevant. Repairing bits of one of the newer macs would be even more involved and expensive because of their cute designs.

The truer analogy to cars, if you're going to make one, would be that the Pc is the American muscle car, with power but maybe lacking a little finesse, whilst the Mac is car with a funky design. PCs are more powerful, that's why Mac had to pull one of their adverts that was saying that the new mac is the most powerful home computer in the world.

I'm quite happy with my purchase of my PC and I'll tell others that too. Wheras strangely a friend of mine with a Mac did nothing but complain about the lack of decent games available, and eventually bought a PC.

Oh well.

[Acrobat]

I'm quite happy with my purchase of my PC and I'll tell others that too. Wheras strangely a friend of mine with a Mac did nothing but complain about the lack of decent games available, and eventually bought a PC.

Oh well.


That why I said in my post about depending what you use it for-I completely understand the point about the games (others have said this to me too), but I don't play games, so it would be great for me (if I could afford one). For now, I shall content myself using someone elses.

[Mist]

Yes, good analogy with an american muscle car:

10 litre engine and still only 200 BHP. Loud and noisy. Crashes frequently when in the hands of idiots (most people).

In the hands of idiots maybe. Personally windows hasn't crashed on me since using windows 2000.

And I'm still not sure where you're going with the performance thing. My point was that PCs are powerful. You may lose a few CPU cycles, but to be honest I don't think that anyone is going to notice.

[wheresmyplacebo]

hardware wise
a pc is so much more flexible than a mac, and you can make it look and be suited for whatever you use it for, my mates home built computer looks beautiful and is killer, would kill any powermac anyday too (3700+ amd 64, 1 gig dual channel 400mhz overlclocked ram, raid-0 and a geforce 6800gt overclocked to ultra)

whilst parts on mas HAVE to be verified by mac so you cant just find a cheapo replacement wen something goes wrong with a part like you can with a pc


and windows - never crashes on me..... and it can be customised to look nice too, the idock thing well you can get a program that does same thing for pc ;)

[rushin]

Why do PC users detest the thought of a mac so much?
I do a multimedia course at uni where we use both mac's and pc's, last year the software engineering course had to take a multimedia module too and complained about having to use macs over their precious pc's. Mac users at least use PCs without making too much of an issue about it. The fact is Macs are much more reliable and easily upgraded than your average pc at least for a novice user. Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of PCs, but the one thing that bugs the hell out of me about PCs is the constent bugs and viruses and always having to keep spyware/virus protection programs up to date. I have never had a virus in the three years I've had my iBook. Where as with my PC I'm always having to upgrade to make sure it doens't become infected. Another thing about PCs is that they date so quickly, you buy a new computer at the start of the year top of the range and by the end of the year its halfed in price and considered old. Whereas, Macs aren't updated as often as PCs so therefore you buy a 12" Powerbook at £1200 you know that its not gonna have decreased in value that much in 6 months.

In answer to the original question I like both so I don't know what I think is better.

[wheresmyplacebo]

thats cause apple has a virtual monopoly on hardware for macs, unlike in pcs

pcs are like the hardware form of open source
and i never get viruses myself on my computer, cause i use it wisely

dont mind macs, its just pcs are so much more flexible etc, and a pc only needs upgrading to play games normally which macs cant do well anyway :p

[ultimatewisdom]

I'm still not sure where you're going with the performance thing. My point was that PCs are powerful. You may lose a few CPU cycles, but to be honest I don't think that anyone is going to notice.

Nobody would notice about the type of RAM either (as discussed earlier).

And G5 powermacs are still the most powerful computer in the world, thats why they are being used in super computers. e.g. This One (http://www.tcf.vt.edu/) which is ranked third fastest supercomputer in the world (and it only has 2200 processors - which are from 1100 G5 machines). - So to continue the car analogy, Apple computers are the good looking very fast and powerful cars (e.g. The Porches, Ferraris & any concept cars) and PC's are teh vauxhall novas which are bought by the chavs who like to put 10,,000 inch wide exhausts on them (or alternatively the PC's are the average car which people buy because lots of other people have them)

And as for prices - Macs arent as expensive as many people think. Take the price of a modern windows notebook (e.g. Dell Inspiron 510M) and an Apple laptop (e.g. iBook 1.2GHz) they are about the same price and in pure technical terms have the same sort of power - but the Apple uses that power more efficiently. Plus - if you are in education you get a 14% discount at the Apple Store online, and also every wednesday they get rid of the refurbished machines for upto 40% off the original price.