iraqi elections will be a farce..... [Archive]

Senor Miguel

14-01-2005, 08:58 PM

so who believes that iraqi elections at the end of the month will bring peace?.......they say they can't postpone because that's giving in to terrorism, but the reality is:

- the nation is still unstable and people dying everyday, americans reckon only 4 out of 18 provinces won't be able to fully participate in elections, just happens over half the population lives in these 4 provinces.....
- the killing won't end until americans leave but they're not planning too anytime soon, they've set up several permanent military bases and they're not gonna leave all that oil behind.....
- terrorists aren't leaving anytime soon either, pouring in from everywhere i can only see more bloodshed, how have we liberated them exactly?

MrG

14-01-2005, 09:02 PM

eternalsunshine

14-01-2005, 11:09 PM

erm....................

its a toughie...an understatement to say the least. This conflict is going nowhere for the 'coallition' forces, they, at the very least, have found themselves being bogged down in a conflict that can never be sustained. The longer the foreign troops remain in the country, the more entrenched your average Iraqi will be regarding the reasons for the invasion in the first place.

This has nothing to do with bringing 'democracy and freedom' to Iraq. This is all about economic control of one of the largest oil fields in the world. The neo-cons alongside the poodle Blair have obviously not thought out the implications and reactions to their foolhardy actions. It's pretty fucking obvious that there will always be a reaction to those that would invade your country for economic reasons, and I'm pretty sure that your average US/UK citizen would likewise resist such an occupation from any foreign power.

Hey...but we did warn them didn't we...we marched in our millions to stop this war. Did they listen to us? No they did not!

The words reap and sow come to mind.

Watch the reaction of the American public to this abomination as their own economy sinks and the body count mounts. The neo-cons have had their experiment and their days are numbered. When the American people fully realise the global consequences of their administration's policies, then that is the time when we will truly see a new global consensus of what is right and what is wrong.

Watch the American people :)

Man Of Kent

15-01-2005, 11:13 PM

Of course they will be a farce, because they are being pushed through for political reasons.

Many "parties" won't stand citing some pathetic excuse. The terrorists will kill people in polling stations and the current interime leader will win.

This isn't a short-term situation, its a long term solution which is needed.

stargalaxy

15-01-2005, 11:13 PM

Personally, if I was living in Iraq now, I would request a postal vote. But on a serious note, yes they will be a farce, and I suspect they will be cancelled eventually.

morrocan roll

15-01-2005, 11:18 PM

watched something on the telly the other day ...your average middle class iraqi in the suburbs ...the very people who were glad to see the fall of sadam and his boys ...are now saying they are willing to kill americans on sight.
they had a reasonably nice country before we arrived ...this isn't what the average iraqi wanted for his country ...death and destruction on a huge daily basis.
lets face it ...we have wrecked their lives ...they were a million times better off with the madman.

morrocan roll

16-01-2005, 12:42 AM

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.zmag.org/Italy/images/vauro_2.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.zmag.org/Italy/vauro-baghdad.htm&h=400&w=378&sz=21&tbnid=pIBWDol-xG4J:&tbnh=119&tbnw=113&start=72&prev=/images%3Fq%3Ddead%2Bold%2Bpeople%26start%3D60%26hl %3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DN

Senor Miguel

16-01-2005, 02:06 PM

so if we can see this surely the politicians can..........they know the elections won't work or hold any legitimacy with most iraqi people, yet are determined to push ahead.........

it's like they are offering iraqis an ultimatum: carry on blowing yourselves up or accept democracy, american style (why don't they just lend some of their black box voting machines so they can have a computer simulated election as well)......

when the elections don't work they will spin it to the public that america have tried so hard but iraqis have rejected democracy and therefore deserve what they're getting.......

Clandestine

16-01-2005, 02:38 PM

No apollo, the neo cons know full well what they have always intended on doing which is to install Allawi (the natural choice after the discreditation of his cousin, Chalabi) under the bogus guise of supposed "free and fair" elections. Just as they have seen through to completion re: Karzai in Afghanistan, Kuschenko in Ukraine and most recently Abu Mazzen in the PA.

All three the contrived choices to pander more maleably to Western elite dictats and the geo-political/corporate hegemony which result therefrom.

Don't think the CIA and Mossad haven't been busy behind the scenes throughout the past four years ensuring that the chesspieces are duly set in place. The true "will of the people" is as irrelevant to the PNAC agenda in these and other foreign locations as it is in the bastion of fraudulent democracy itself.

Senor Miguel

16-01-2005, 02:52 PM

i suppose it makes sense, i didn't even realise Allawi was standing in the elections, i thought they would be based on some kind of regional voting and constituents..........you just think it's too blatant even for the americans to try and put him in, iraqis won't buy him for a second so they'll have to fix the votes.....

Clandestine

16-01-2005, 03:03 PM

LOL. and you think contrived votes arent part and parcel of the whole fraudulent game? Come now, i'm sure you arent that naive.

Why do you think we have no intention of withdrawing from Iraq? 14 permanent military bases and the posting of the "Butcher of Nicaragua" as our Ambassador to oversee the solidification of our hegemonic grip on that vital resource rich and militarily-strategic location are part and parcel of the glaring inevitabilities soon to gain the corporate media imprimatur. Of course, Allawi and his constituentless INC/INA cohorts will not ask the US to withdraw, the troops will be the only legitimacy they can hope to have.

Senor Miguel

16-01-2005, 03:24 PM

but how long can the u.s. keep their troops there without turning it into another vietnam?........surely the public's perception can't be deluded indefinitely, what is the required body count before people open their eyes?

The Matadore

16-01-2005, 08:45 PM

All three the contrived choices to pander more maleably to Western elite dictats and the geo-political/corporate hegemony which result therefrom.

You are a paranoid wreck.

Seek Professional help immediately.

Yerascrote

16-01-2005, 08:56 PM

You are a paranoid wreck.

Seek Professional help immediately.

on that tangent you'll also agree that the threat of terror is an over hyped ploy used by neo cons to gain support. yea......

eternalsunshine

16-01-2005, 10:17 PM

You are a paranoid wreck.

Seek Professional help immediately.You really dont get it at all do you Matadore. Now listen to me very carefully and see if you can come up with something a little more coherent.

Do you really think that the US administration is ever voluntarily going to allow the Iraqi people to choose a government of their own choice? A government that would no doubt demand the immediate withdrawl of US/UK troops and their puppet masters Haliburton, Kellogg, Brown and Root?

Do you really think that the US admin and co. are going to allow the renationalisation of the Iraqi oil industry?

morrocan roll

16-01-2005, 11:18 PM

[QUOTE=eternalsunshine]
Do you really think that the US admin and co. QUOTE]are going to let iraq sell oil for euros instead of dollars?

eternalsunshine

16-01-2005, 11:28 PM

The idea of trading in oil in Euros instead of Dollars has been on the cards for quite some time morrocan. The idea was to negate the influence of the US over the world's remaining oil reserves. OPEC have been toying with this idea for quite some time...

As for the Americans allowing this...no fecking way.

This is partly the reason why they invaded in the first place

morrocan roll

16-01-2005, 11:30 PM

The idea of trading in oil in Euros instead of Dollars has been on the cards for quite some time morrocan. The idea was to negate the influence of the US over the world's remaining oil reserves. OPEC have been toying with this idea for quite some time...
i know ...oh how that would fuck the mighty america up aye!

Senor Miguel

16-01-2005, 11:32 PM

morrocan roll

16-01-2005, 11:44 PM

yes but specifically around december 2000 saddam was making noises like iran are now and that's why they wasted no time in removing him.........but once the dollar falls enough this will happen anyways, goodbye america.......
i believe this admin will be responsible for breaking america ...financialy and moraly ...and sooner than you think.
the whole world will suffer ...

bluestatesman

16-01-2005, 11:49 PM

I hope not. I think that any way that some type of election and accountability to leaders can come into that part of the world...all the better. My God, when I read about the money Arafat's wife blows in Paris...it made me sick. The Iraqis say the battle is between people who benefited from Saddam and the rest of Iraq. It's not drawn only along religious lines. Between Saddam's tortures and the oil for food robbery with Chirac's buddies...those people deserve a government that represents them in some way. Besides, they said the same thing about Afghanistan...and look at all of the women who voted there.

I'm still against the war. But there's many countries in Europe and the UN has no room to talk...with the oil for food theft.

morrocan roll

17-01-2005, 12:05 AM

Besides, they said the same thing about Afghanistan...and look at all of the women who voted there.

.
the hard facts about afghanistan blue ...only in the capital has it made any difference.
it is now far worse for women than before in the warlord areas ...the war lords who have been paid millions in u.s dollars to keep the taliban out ...the warlords who with american taxpayers dollars are now able to produce the biggest heroin crop in history with all the machine guns dollars can buy!
check out the facts and you will find little has changed and some things have gotten worse.
remember ...no one in history has ever conquered this country ...taken the capital city yes ...

Senor Miguel

17-01-2005, 12:06 AM

...those people deserve a government that represents them in some way.

yes, and that's precisely what they're not gonna get, because a truly democratic leader would act in the interests of the iraqis not the americans, who have invested billions in going to war and are not about to allow independence.....

rolly i've already posted a thread how america are bringing the world to financial collapse, i believe will happen around 2009 but could be sooner because any serious buyout of dollars and american bonds by the chinese for instance could set the whole thing off........

morrocan roll

17-01-2005, 12:08 AM

rolly i've already posted a thread how america are bringing the world to financial collapse, i believe will happen around 2009 but could be sooner .......
i reckon the writing is on the wall for this year or next.

bluestatesman

17-01-2005, 12:18 AM

That's very true MR. But at least it's a start in Afghanistan. I just can't stand the way the world has let so much torture and poverty go on in the Middle East...partially from the corrupt rulers, companies and some Western politicians. I'm edited out something I said on my post.

morrocan roll

17-01-2005, 12:21 AM

That's very true MR. But at least it's a start in Afghanistan. .
it's not though blue ...it's a soundbite.
the country is in utter chaos.
the only thing holding it together is dollars paid to mass murderers and drug dealers ...it can't last without a respectable foundation ...the whole thing is built on criminality cruelty heroin and bullshit.

Senor Miguel

17-01-2005, 12:24 AM

i reckon the writing is on the wall for this year or next.

lol, any particular reason you have such fresh hope for the future? or is it just the impending sense of doom.........?

morrocan roll

17-01-2005, 12:30 AM

or is it just the impending sense of doom.........?
yes!
plus ...investors are not going to go along with whats happening for much longer ...the trend already is to invest in china/asia.
the bush bots have fucked up big style and investment does rely on good faith ...reasonably safe bets ...would you invest your money in american corporations at the moment ...with all the corruption ...illegal wars ...and the biggest defecite in the history of the world?
they are as good as bankrupt already ...financialy and moraly.

Senor Miguel

17-01-2005, 12:40 AM

that's true, i simply the think the alternative is too painful because if america loses, the world loses..........so people will continue to buy dollars to prop up their existing investment, this catch 22 will carry on for a couple more years i think.......

bluestatesman

17-01-2005, 12:45 AM

I haven't studied economics at all yet but the low dollar has got China investing in building a car plant in the US to sell cars in the US market. It'll create I think they said over 12,000 jobs...of course GM announced a layoff already. And then they're hiring people to help the tourists in nyc - read that and also at the ski resorts out West. And then some plant was won for the south over Europe cause of the weak dollar. But France said the dollar's fall must stop because it's getting in the way of their growth. I know people aren't traveling to Europe from the US because it's too expensive right now.

It's hard to figure out what the heck anyone is doing. The bin laden and saud family are invested in American defense contractors as of just before the war...I read.

morrocan roll

17-01-2005, 12:47 AM

Clandestine

19-01-2005, 09:50 AM

An excellent and telling analysis of this charade of imposed US will on the political future of Iraq (and its actual illegality under international norms of practice by occupying powers) can be found here...

http://globalresearch.ca/articles/ARB501A.html

I recommend that people give it some consideration if interested to comprehend just how intent Washington is on installing a puppet regime under the fraudulent banner of "democratisation". This can only lead to deeper social schisms in an already destabilised nation.