even if you dont enjoy politics

[wheresmyplacebo]

finally found one small article in the times

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/printFriendly/0,,1-2-1361980,00.html

Emergency powers endorsed by Lords
By Helen Rumbelow


THE Government is to be given sweeping powers in the case of national emergency, the Lords voted last night.

The Conservatives failed in a last-ditch attempt to introduce more safeguards to the Civil Contingencies Bill, and it is expected to pass through the Commons today.

Baroness Scotland of Asthal, a Home Office minister, promised that the Government would not “run amok” with the new powers, which will allow it to suspend or repeal any Act of Parliament after a state of emergency has been declared.

The Conservatives proposed an amendment to ensure that the Government could not override “core rights” such as the Habeas Corpus Act of 1816, and the Parliament Act of 1911, which limits the duration of a Parliament to five years. Baroness Buscombe said: “We are attempting to safeguard our civil rights, the foundations of our democracy and to ensure that the supremacy and independence of Parliament is guaranteed.” The amendment was defeated by 169 to 146.


so parliamentry elections now can be suspended under the guise of security, whose security? the PMs or any future leader?

[MrG]

isnt this exactly what happened in starwars attack of the clones

leading to an imperial empire

[wheresmyplacebo]

Originally posted by MrG
isnt this exactly what happened in starwars attack of the clones

leading to an imperial empire

even if darth vadar was crippled, at least, he could see, unlike what our empire would have :lol:

scary stuff! is there any way of stopping it

a proposed amendment that would force parliament to review the emergency every 3 yrs if it was invoked was voted down as well, so only the PM has the final word, parliament doesnt

[budda]

I'm thinking about giving up watching news full stop, I watch/listen too much, its a grim past time it really is.

I really dont have enough time to write all the "I am writing to express my concern about...." letters I want to.

[Butterflykisses]

Originally posted by MrG
isnt this exactly what happened in starwars attack of the clones

leading to an imperial empire

More pertinently, isn't it exactly what Hitler did just after he came into power?! Lol, I'm not taking it seriously. There's so much scaremongering flying about at the moment that I refuse to get caught up in it.

[MrG]

i was hoping to avoid another anti semetism thread/discussion that i have had to suffer the wrath of in the past couple of days on a sprinkling of news groups

the reason i used the star wars example is because galactic domination sounds much more scary than ruling the world

edit: plus a lot more people who dont venture into the politics and debate thread would be able to see that even such things as star wars, which regular forum users know about, might be an attractive feature to getting new blood

[Fiend_85]

It's depressing, and I hope SOMEONE realises how scary it is. Really, just look at how Hitler became a dictator, and how the germans didn't even care because he was SO good at his job.

[MrG]

john prescott gets to be boss nass from star wars



http://216.127.78.103/~dutch-starwars.com/database/personen/pics/boss_nass.jpg

[dr_carter]

Originally posted by Butterflykisses
More pertinently, isn't it exactly what Hitler did just after he came into power?! Lol, I'm not taking it seriously. There's so much scaremongering flying about at the moment that I refuse to get caught up in it.

Scaremongering? The bill was given royal assent on 17th November 2004 and is hereafter known as the Civil Contingencies Act 2004. It is law. Tomorrow, Tony Blair could declare a state of emergency for no apparent reason and then reintroduce the death penalty, instruct the police to beat people up on the street, confiscate money from the public with no good reason (I know the last two happen anyway though - except the police beat people up of their own accord) what else.... he could theoretically ban the assembly of people in the street, he would have no obligation to dissolve parliament and call a GE in 2006.... and it would ALL be legal.

With laws like this in place, the people who advocate proportional representation have no leg to stand on.

[MrG]

it is scaremongering, im getting scared and therefore its working

[morrocan roll]

it is getting very scary.
all the freedoms that have been hard won and seem so normal ...are on the way out.
i'll put money on it ...military conscription will come back. homosexuality will be outlawed.
the social insecurity system will slowly dissapear.
more jails will be built.
a handicapped child in the womb will not be allowed to be born.
all kinds of stuff is going to change for the worse over the next few years.
our technology is demanding it of us.

[budda]

I am dissapointed this was moved actually, all people using TheSite should really read this.

This is the scariest piece of law I have ever seen, it goes WAY beyond the Patriot Act.

[BlackArab]

Wow and this comes in just as reports are made of the authorities preventing a large terrorist attack, thus making people think that maybe the loss of civil liberties is a small price to pay for 'freedom'.

What an amazing coincidence! :eek:

[Fiend_85]

Perhaps intelligent rational people still exist...

[budda]

Originally posted by Fiend_85
Perhaps intelligent rational people still exist...

They will all be in Belmash soon.

[Fiend_85]

see you there then bong...:(

[dolly dagger]

Originally posted by Fiend_85
Perhaps intelligent rational people still exist...

Exactly, this law is scary, it can be v.easily abused, BUT, I think believe in the public, we may be a little silly, but we are not totally dumb, and there are enough people who will fight it if it is used unfairly...

[Fiend_85]

It should NEVER even be ratified to be fought.

[Uncle Joe]

Originally posted by MrG
john prescott gets to be boss nass from star wars



http://216.127.78.103/~dutch-starwars.com/database/personen/pics/boss_nass.jpg Silly,Boss Nas is obviously Michael Moore ;)

[budda]

Originally posted by dolly dagger
Exactly, this law is scary, it can be v.easily abused, BUT, I think believe in the public, we may be a little silly, but we are not totally dumb, and there are enough people who will fight it if it is used unfairly...

Would it? If everything continued as before, just the elections were "delayed" a bit, perhaps a couple of freedoms withdrawn...

I'd say after a bomb people wouldnt object quite as much as they should.

Oh Fiend, your box is full.

[Fiend_85]

Originally posted by bongbudda
Oh Fiend, your box is full.

Only because you enjoy filling it.

Dealt with.

[dolly dagger]

Originally posted by bongbudda

I'd say after a bomb people wouldnt object quite as much as they should.

OK, a bomb is something different, of course fear can make people do or accept crazy things, but i just think enough people aren't stupid for the stuff rolly was talking about to happen, I mean look at this forum, people are aware of things, maybe we just need to act..

[budda]

How many people are here? Theres what a dozen of us tops.

Even all the people who went marching before the war only really represent about 2% of the population MAX.

[girl with sharp teeth]

.

[budda]

Obviously if Blair were to push straight into a police state then yes, there would be protests.

But if it was done gradually, little errosions of liberties, the delaying and delaying of elections.

I honestly think he could do it.

[Renzo]

Was there a commons vote on the issue?

It does seem quite disturbing, 'emergency powers' always led to dictatorships in the past.

[girl with sharp teeth]

.

[budda]

I am completely surprised this got nearly no coverage on any of the networks.

I couldnt even find a story on the BBC website and they post all manor of crappy stories on there.

[girl with sharp teeth]

.

[budda]

I'm coming to think it may well have been.

Though to be honest, most of the hassle is because the Lords wouldnt make any concessions at all.

We could well have had the system like in Scotland or licences or whatever but they pushed it and lost.

[girl with sharp teeth]

.

[Renzo]

Originally posted by girl with sharp teeth
Yes. The Tories you hate so much were defeated in their proposal to place an amendment safeguarding the Parliament Act and Habeous Corpus. So no elections and indefinite imprisonment without charge. Fantastic :thumb:

I'm guessing the Tories and the Liberals had no chance against the Labour majority though. They should have just rebelled again :|

[budda]

Originally posted by girl with sharp teeth
Irrelevent. Labour MPs were never going to vote for anything other than an outright ban. Blaming the Lords is pointless as any amendments would have been rejected anyway.

Nah, you're right, there were a lot of back benchers who saw this issue in far too personal terms. It was very much a commons vs. lords issue, when it should have been about the bill in question.

[girl with sharp teeth]

.

[dolly dagger]

This is really weird, why wasn't this bigger news? I've looked too on other sites, and it's not there.

The only news I get is from Guardian on Sat, I'm going to see if it's their then.

[girl with sharp teeth]

.

[budda]

Well I've just written a strongly worded letter to my MP, have you?

[Renzo]

I will pick up an Independent and a Guardian later. I will see if its in them. I should hope so.

[girl with sharp teeth]

.

[budda]

Most MP's will point blank ignore faxes and emails.

If you write a proper letter then you're more likely to get a response.

My MP may well vote with the government ALL the time but at least he responds when I write to him with decent responses.

[girl with sharp teeth]

.

[budda]

Thats a little tragic, I hope it improves soon.

[dolly dagger]

Originally posted by bongbudda
Well I've just written a strongly worded letter to my MP, have you?

No, but I may well do, if i manage to find out enough info about this thing....

[budda]

Well the Hansard record is all online now, so you could read all the debate that went on.

www.theyworkforyou.com will tell you the voting record of your MP.

And www.faxyourmp.co.uk will give you their address if you want to write to them.

[Renzo]

I don't think there is much point writing to either of my MP's (is the one at uni or the one at home mine?)

In Exeter, Ben Bradshaw is a complete Blairite, and at home David Liddington well..he's a Tory. And I have met him....and he's just...yuck.

[budda]

Well it was the Tories who put up some sort of fight against this bill.

You could write to him saying that you're not normally a Tory but you did agree with this stance and that you might consider voting for them if they carry on with that stance.

[Renzo]

Originally posted by bongbudda
Well it was the Tories who put up some sort of fight against this bill.

You could write to him saying that you're not normally a Tory but you did agree with this stance and that you might consider voting for them if they carry on with that stance.

My vote to them wouldn't matter they have a massive majority at home anyway. And evening saying I might support one....*shudder* I may try and find the nearest Liberal.

[budda]

For those of you who want more information Liberty produced this report when the bill was still in the planning stage.

Its a bit lengthy but its interesting none the less.

http://www.liberty-human-rights.org.uk/resources/policy-papers/policy-papers-2003/pdf-documents/sept-2003-draft-civil-contigency-bill.pdf

[morrocan roll]

wehn the rerrorist attack happens ...you'll be glad of these changes in the law!







































the attack was worked out between george and tony last week ...they will be putting the finnishing touches to making you feel glad ...soon.

[Senor Miguel]

well there you go we're just as bad as america, and how the fuck is this not considered newsworthy? i think we all know the implications of this too clearly, lets hope we're not afraid to stand up and be counted when the time comes, its not as far off as you may think.............

[morrocan roll]

Originally posted by apollo_69
well there you go we're just as bad as america, and how the fuck is this not considered newsworthy? i think we all know the implications of this too clearly, lets hope we're not afraid to stand up and be counted when the time comes, its not as far off as you may think............. no ...i swear you'll be glad.

[wheresmyplacebo]

Originally posted by bongbudda
Well it was the Tories who put up some sort of fight against this bill.

You could write to him saying that you're not normally a Tory but you did agree with this stance and that you might consider voting for them if they carry on with that stance.

long term state of our democracy is more important than temporary issues like health etc.... however im quite sure the tories wouldnt revoke this law



what im wondering is, is that surely this is what terroists want - a police state, as its our freedoms and liberty that extremists despice, yet what what to do we do - we make our country less free and less democratic

[budda]

Originally posted by apollo_69
well there you go we're just as bad as america

This is WAY worse than even the second version of the Patriot Act.

[morrocan roll]

Originally posted by dolly dagger
OK, a bomb is something different, of course fear can make people do or accept crazy things, but i just think enough people aren't stupid for the stuff rolly was talking about to happen, I mean look at this forum, people are aware of things, maybe we just need to act.. fear ...economics ...and bullshit can change landscapes.
people in nazi germany were aware.
i think less people are aware or even interested than you think.
try having a serious conversation in anything goes where the majority of posters are ...you get accused of being a doom and gloom depressing fucker.
people don't like or even have to face reality as often as they would like to believe.
celebrity and fashion seem to hold far greater sway.

[BlackArab]

Reichstag fire anyone?

[morrocan roll]

Originally posted by BlackArab
Reichstag fire anyone? all the machinery is being put in place ...

[budda]

Originally posted by morrocan roll
fear ...economics ...and bullshit can change landscapes.
people in nazi germany were aware.
i think less people are aware or even interested than you think.
try having a serious conversation in anything goes where the majority of posters are ...you get accused of being a doom and gloom depressing fucker.
people don't like or even have to face reality as often as they would like to believe.
celebrity and fashion seem to hold far greater sway.

Thats so true, ask most people in Anything Goes how much news they pay attention to and most will say none.

[Miffy]

Originally posted by morrocan roll
all the machinery is being put in place ...

I think you might be mistaken about that. If you actually read the thing you'll find that the Govt. only have to be convinced that an emergency is about to occur before they're allowed to make emergency regulations. So in fact, nothing actually has to HAPPEN at all.

[morrocan roll]

Originally posted by Miffy
I think you might be mistaken about that. If you actually read the thing you'll find that the Govt. only have to be convinced that an emergency is about to occur before they're allowed to make emergency regulations. So in fact, nothing actually has to HAPPEN at all. i'll rephrase that ...the machinery is now IN place!

[budda]

Exactly, Blair just needs to feel a bit spooked one morning and he can call a halt to virtually all civil liberties.

[morrocan roll]

Originally posted by bongbudda
Exactly, Blair just needs to feel a bit spooked one morning and he can call a halt to virtually all civil liberties. has a british prime minister ever been in such a powerful position?

[wheresmyplacebo]

Originally posted by bongbudda
Thats so true, ask most people in Anything Goes how much news they pay attention to and most will say none.

done :thumb:

[Miffy]

Originally posted by morrocan roll
has a british prime minister ever been in such a powerful position?

We had more rights under the Magna Carta.

[budda]

Originally posted by bongbudda
Exactly, Blair just needs to feel a bit spooked one morning and he can call a halt to virtually all civil liberties.

Actually its not virtually all, its just plain all civil liberties.

[wheresmyplacebo]

Originally posted by Miffy
We had more rights under the Magna Carta.

the only people with rights then were landowenrs, most of the popultion lived under serfdom

[morrocan roll]

Originally posted by wheresmyplacebo
the only people with rights then were landowenrs, most of the popultion lived under serfdom and now the only ones with rights are ...err ...err ...

[NaCN]

Link to CC bill (PDF) (http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld200304/ldbills/120/2004120.pdf)

Interesting. :(

What can we do now apart from be rather worried?

[budda]

Contacting our MP's would be a start.

After that maybe contacting Liberty and asking what they are doing to fight this and how we could help.

[morrocan roll]

Originally posted by bongbudda
Contacting our MP's would be a start.

After that maybe contacting Liberty and asking what they are doing to fight this and how we could help. it's too late mate ...your rights no longer exist.

[budda]

I fail to accept that its totally hopeless, at least not yet.

If we sit on are asses just complaining then yes, it is doomed but it could be changed.

[morrocan roll]

Originally posted by bongbudda
I fail to accept that its totally hopeless, at least not yet.

If we sit on are asses just complaining then yes, it is doomed but it could be changed. i agree ...but it will have to take protests of a massive scale ...national strikes to bring the country to its knees ...can you see it happening?
can we win over the likes of whowhere to support the strikes and demos that would be needed?

[wheresmyplacebo]

Originally posted by morrocan roll
and now the only ones with rights are ...err ...err ...

BLAIR and errrrr blunkettt, not too sure bout brown though :lol:

[budda]

Originally posted by morrocan roll
i agree ...but it will have to take protests of a massive scale ...national strikes to bring the country to its knees ...can you see it happening?
can we win over the likes of whowhere to support the strikes and demos that would be needed?

Jesus I dont know, this is depressing, I dont really care whether my inky protests are virtually pointless but at least I can feel I'm doing something.

[Senor Miguel]

noone will protest until they actually take our rights away, and then its too late, because hey presto it will be illegal.......soon as i graduate and get some cash together im getting the fuck outta here,

[budda]

To where, most Western countries are implementing the same laws.

In fact in most countries as a non-citizen you'll have even fewer rights.

[Senor Miguel]

well i was thinking australia, but luckily i happen to have indian citizenship so if worse comes to worse i'd gladly exchange the big house and nice car for a bit more freedom.......

[morrocan roll]

Originally posted by apollo_69
noone will protest until they actually take our rights away, the reality is ...those rights have already been taken.
do you have the right to vote anymore?
no ...tony has the power to say ...no you don't.
the taliban are taking over the world in suits.

[Senor Miguel]

lol, i realise that rolly i was just referring to the right to march and protest, which will be suspended if there is a 'crisis'......fact is i dont vote, because we are heading in the same direction no matter who you choose.....

[morrocan roll]

Originally posted by apollo_69
lol, i realise that rolly i was just referring to the right to march and protest, which will be suspended if there is a 'crisis'...... maybe the right thing to do would for us to precipitate that crisis as early as possible?
instead of the government being allowed to dictate the time table.

[TheKingOfGlasgow]

The proposals are a disproportionate response to a misconceived fear
This was the quote that scared me. How the hell this could have passed under the radar of the media is beyond me. The fact that the BBC is now in the hands of the government, it really does seem like a conspiracy. Do you think this has been planned for years?

[Senor Miguel]

since 1776 in fact when the illuminati was formed, novos ordo seclorum..........they are just putting the final pieces in place.

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by apollo_69
since 1776 in fact when the illuminati was formed, novos ordo seclorum..........they are just putting the final pieces in place.

You've read too much Robert Anton Wilson.

[girl with sharp teeth]

.

[Senor Miguel]

lol, i have never heard of robert anton wilson but if he came to the same conclusions i have he was probably onto something.......do some research on the council of foreign relations, royal institute of international affairs, and bilderberg my good sir then draw your own conclusions........

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by apollo_69
lol, i have never heard of robert anton wilson but if he came to the same conclusions i have he was probably onto something.......do some research on the council of foreign relations, royal institute of international affairs, and bilderberg my good sir then draw your own conclusions........

Oh dear. Maybe you should read the novel, published in the early 70's that invented this particular conspiracy theory.

http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/1854875744.02.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

[Senor Miguel]

i dont think the novel will tell me anything new and im up to my elbows in studies so i'll pass........but if you're saying this 'theory' was invented in the 70's then im afraid youre betraying your own ignorance........

[Blagsta]

Yes of course I am. :rolleyes:

[Senor Miguel]

Originally posted by Blagsta
read the novel, published in the early 70's that invented this particular conspiracy theory.


...........am i misreading your post?

[Blagsta]

:rolleyes:

[edn1]

This is my first post in the P & D forum and after reading a lot of whats been said Im very ( rightly so ) worried by this being passed.

The whole thing stinks ( of conspiracy yes ) and it really amaes me that i never saw anything in the news about this.

I dont like to get involved in politics but this takes the utter piss.

Makes me worry about the future alright

[girl with sharp teeth]

.

[morrocan roll]

Originally posted by girl with sharp teeth
Congrats on your first post in here Richeh - may it be the first of many :)

I never used to be this paranoid, but try and find something out about this act - it's almost as though it doesn't exist. They definitely do not want people to realise what they have done. there was a bit on news 24 just before i went out this evening so around ...5pm.
saying ...tony blair insists the current changes in law and those being pushed forward for ...after ...the general election are in no way meant to create a ploice state ...thats enough to make any sane person head for the hills.

[edn1]

Originally posted by girl with sharp teeth
Congrats on your first post in here Richeh - may it be the first of many :)

I never used to be this paranoid, but try and find something out about this act - it's almost as though it doesn't exist. They definitely do not want people to realise what they have done.

Thank you :) .

yeah i have noticed that. You cant find a thing about it.... As mad as it might sound the conspracy theory is looking more and more likely :nervous:

The whole thing stinks.... Democracy.. what Democracy :rolleyes:

[Yerascrote]

Originally posted by Richeh
The whole thing stinks.... Democracy.. what Democracy :rolleyes:

things get worse, you'll find out alot more about society and life in general now, it'll actually scare you how fucked up and greedy we are, i know this board gets alot of stick form say the anything goes board, which itself is usually a load of balls, this place is alright though.

[edn1]

Originally posted by turlough
things get worse, you'll find out alot more about society and life in general now, it'll actually scare you how fucked up and greedy we are, i know this board gets alot of stick form say the anything goes board, which itself is usually a load of balls, this place is alright though.

Having read little bits and pieces here adn there and having popped in and out of the P & D forum and reading things, i have had my eyes opened on things...

I know i have, and will continue to, but peopl eneed their eyes opened to the bigger picture, and reality

[morrocan roll]

Originally posted by Richeh
Having read little bits and pieces here adn there and having popped in and out of the P & D forum and reading things, i have had my eyes opened on things...

I know i have, and will continue to, but peopl eneed their eyes opened to the bigger picture, and reality http://img119.exs.cx/img119/7804/150_forpresident.jpg

[edn1]

Originally posted by morrocan roll
http://img119.exs.cx/img119/7804/150_forpresident.jpg

You do a good job of cheering me up good sir :D

[girl with sharp teeth]

.

[edn1]

Originally posted by girl with sharp teeth
I've finally found a very old link referring to the Act (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/talking_point/3375311.stm)

I've read through that and i find this one quote sticking in my head :

They have too much control over our lives and it terrifies me because the powers will be abused and not catch a single terrorist.

Mainly the "too much control over our lives bit"

:mad:

[Kentish]

Originally posted by girl with sharp teeth
I've finally found a very old link referring to the Act (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/talking_point/3375311.stm)
The Civil Contingencies Bill itself (http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld200304/ldbills/077/04077.i-iv.html)

[girl with sharp teeth]

.

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by girl with sharp teeth
For all of you who think people are actually interested in their future, this is the response I got from a supposedly intelligent and aware university student.

Barry sounds like a right smug twat.

[Acrobat]

Originally posted by girl with sharp teeth
For all of you who think people are actually interested in their future, this is the response I got from a supposedly intelligent and aware university student.

Thats really quite scary. Also worrying is that anyone I have spoken with about it seem totally unconcerned bar one. And many of those I spoke to are History students, who should have learnt from the past what implementing this type of thing could leads to.

[Martin_Bashir]

yeah lets all get drunk and absorb television :rolleyes:

YEEEEESSSS MAAAAASSSTTTEEERRR :eek:

[morrocan roll]

if the bnp were to get in ...or another maggie hatchet ...you can gaurantee they would use these powers to the full.

[BlackArab]

Originally posted by girl with sharp teeth
For all of you who think people are actually interested in their future, this is the response I got from a supposedly intelligent and aware university student.



Two girls in my seminar just asked the lecturer what a picket line was and I am doing a History degree at Bristol Uni. I almost bit my lip off trying not to laugh.

Students eh!

[Kermit]

And to think people laughed at me when I was saying six years ago how Blair will bring in police control the second his majority is threatened...

I'm buying some big guns and moving to a small shack on the top of the Cairngorms...

[pedr]

We're all very concerned about this, and rightly so as the potential powers are very wide. Apparently there will be consulation soon on the structure of the regulatory framework ... let's keep our eyes peeled and all make sure we make our views about how these powers should be used and controlled known