The benefits of immigration

[nckdn]

Do the benefits of immigration, begun in the 1950s, of Black and Asian people outweigh the costs. Benefits may be such things as cultural enhancement, new businesses and markets, increased awareness of Britain's past mistakes. Costs may be increased crime, poverty and social breakdown.

[Senor Miguel]

i think the phrasing of your poll sucks, to imply that murders and gang rapes are part and parcel of immigration, even if your trying to represent other people's point of view, its pretty narrow minded.......personally i think multi-culturalism is great because it reminds people that although we live on an island we are not alone on this earth, which is how a lot of brits seem to think....

[LabRat]

I’m not sure multiculturalism is so much great. It would be great if it developed in a natural way but it doesn’t. If there were places to escape for people who don’t like immigrants but such places don’t exist. If there were bars, hotels, enterprises, schools, suburbs, towns ‘Whites only’ or ‘Christians only’ or ’Heterosexuals only’ but they are banned.
People praising forcible multiculturalism don’t understand a simple thing- the same measures that develop adaptive reaction among ones develop allergic reaction among others. So the more artificial multiculturalism the more racism. Look what happened in the most multicultural parts of Yugoslavia and Soviet Union.

[Fiend_85]

Who voted for the last option?

[BumbleBee]

Originally posted by Fiend_85
Who voted for the last option?

That kind of person is likely to be a pathetic coward and would never admit it.

Mass immigration in the 50s was needed and encouraged as there were too few people to fill the available jobs. If these people hadn't been 'shipped' over those jobs wouldn't have been filled and the economy would probably look a little different.

However, if another solution had been taken at the time, like encourging women to seek employment, sexual equality in Britain might have developed before it did.

[ShyBoy]

Immigration is good for the economy.

[BumbleBee]

Originally posted by TheShyBoyInTheCorner
Immigration is good for the economy.

I agree wholeheartedly. I've seen more violent behaviour, more anti-social behaviour and more crime committed by white 'natives'. The thing is, a lot of people see brown skin and assume that person is an immigrant even if they were born here.

[girl with sharp teeth]

.

[Fiend_85]

Originally posted by girl with sharp teeth
Me :p

I couldn't believe that it was actually an option, so naturally I jumped at the chance to screw the poll up.

You voted twice?

[wheresmyplacebo]

Originally posted by apollo_69
i think the phrasing of your poll sucks, to imply that murders and gang rapes are part and parcel of immigration, even if your trying to represent other people's point of view, its pretty narrow minded.......personally i think multi-culturalism is great because it reminds people that although we live on an island we are not alone on this earth, which is how a lot of brits seem to think....

no i believe hes just adding an option for the extremists with rather stupid opinions

[Disillusioned]

Are we talking about legal immigration or illegal immigration?

I don’t think anyone can deny the enormous benefits that legal immigration has brought to this country.

The same cannot be said for illegal immigration – people smuggling, sex slaves, the Morcambe Bay tragedy, the 58 people found dead in a lorry at Dover and various other sad incidents.

[wheresmyplacebo]

Originally posted by Disillusioned
Are we talking about legal immigration or illegal immigration?

I don’t think anyone can deny the enormous benefits that legal immigration has brought to this country.

The same cannot be said for illegal immigration – people smuggling, sex slaves, the Morcambe Bay tragedy, the 58 people found dead in a lorry at Dover and various other sad incidents.

i think everyone would agree illegal immigration would be a net negative effect on this country, and those people too

legal immigration benefits most people quite easily

[Kermit]

I'lkl say what I said in the other thread:

fuck off and die you racist cunt.

[nckdn]

Thanks for the thoughtful replies. Kermit, you keep labelling me racist, I'm really not and you've no reason to think I am. Also be aware that some language can be considered offensive and that children can access this site. Unfortunately the best and worst of human behaviour is 'part and parcel' of the effect of immigration. I deliberately mentioned gang-rape and murder as they are two of the most serious crimes imaginable. There was a post which suggested 'whites' were more criminal, racist and anti-social than 'non-whites', as far as inter-racial crime goes the statistics say otherwise. Overwhelmingly so. http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs/s95race00.pdf
My own viewpoint is that Indian and Chinese immigration has been beneficial, Pakistani, Bangladeshi and Black immigration has been unsuccessful.

[Jim V]

I'm sorry but simply can not say you aren't racist when the tone and content of your posts clearly shows a vein of racism.

Racism is not tolerated on these boards - discussion of immigration is fine but can not be an excuse for unfounded accusations and general bigotry

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by Disillusioned
Are we talking about legal immigration or illegal immigration?

I don’t think anyone can deny the enormous benefits that legal immigration has brought to this country.

The same cannot be said for illegal immigration – people smuggling, sex slaves, the Morcambe Bay tragedy, the 58 people found dead in a lorry at Dover and various other sad incidents.

Partly true, but not the whole picture.
Our economy depends on illegal immigration at the moment. The catering and hospitality trade in London particularly. Bosses can get away with paying shit money in shit conditions for long hours to illegal immigrants. If they employed people legit, they might have to take a cut in profits, and we can't have that, can we?

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by LabRat
I’m not sure multiculturalism is so much great. It would be great if it developed in a natural way

Define "natural".

[Toadborg]

Originally posted by LabRat
I’m not sure multiculturalism is so much great. It would be great if it developed in a natural way but it doesn’t. If there were places to escape for people who don’t like immigrants but such places don’t exist. If there were bars, hotels, enterprises, schools, suburbs, towns ‘Whites only’ or ‘Christians only’ or ’Heterosexuals only’ but they are banned.
People praising forcible multiculturalism don’t understand a simple thing- the same measures that develop adaptive reaction among ones develop allergic reaction among others. So the more artificial multiculturalism the more racism. Look what happened in the most multicultural parts of Yugoslavia and Soviet Union.

Nice to see that you are a gross hypocrite Labrat. Thought you believed in free-markets and no state interference? :rolleyes:

[Toadborg]

Originally posted by wheresmyplacebo
i think everyone would agree illegal immigration would be a net negative effect on this country, and those people too

legal immigration benefits most people quite easily

I do not understand this view.

There difference between legal and illegal immigration is one merely of classicfication and the consequent manner of the immigrants existence considering their status in the yees of the law.

The material difference is precisely nil. If someone has the right papers etc this does not mean they will benefit the economy or the culture more than soemone who has snuck in.

Thus to claim illegal immigration is good but illegal immigration is very bad is a nonsense......

[wheresmyplacebo]

Originally posted by Toadborg
I do not understand this view.

There difference between legal and illegal immigration is one merely of classicfication and the consequent manner of the immigrants existence considering their status in the yees of the law.

The material difference is precisely nil. If someone has the right papers etc this does not mean they will benefit the economy or the culture more than soemone who has snuck in.

Thus to claim illegal immigration is good but illegal immigration is very bad is a nonsense......

erm it is cause most illegals land up in illegal jobs like prostitution etc to pay for their smuggling, with threat of their famiy being killed, its the harsh reality

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by wheresmyplacebo
erm it is cause most illegals land up in illegal jobs like prostitution etc to pay for their smuggling, with threat of their famiy being killed, its the harsh reality

Not entirely true. There is a difference between illegal immigration and people smuggling.

[dolly dagger]

If every non-english (ie.non-white, no english blood) person left england tomorrow this country would be in chaos, unfortunately for them, they do the shitty jobs which english natives wouldn't touch.

[Fiend_85]

Three people have now voted for the last answer, hands up please? One is GWST on the basis of being silly, but I'm interested who actually has that view and why?

[Toadborg]

Originally posted by wheresmyplacebo
erm it is cause most illegals land up in illegal jobs like prostitution etc to pay for their smuggling, with threat of their famiy being killed, its the harsh reality

Well not necessarily, like Blagsta said illegal immigration is not the same as people smuggling and i would doubt whether the majority of illegal immigrants eneded up involved in crime...

[Toadborg]

Originally posted by dolly dagger
If every non-english (ie.non-white, no english blood) person left england tomorrow this country would be in chaos, unfortunately for them, they do the shitty jobs which english natives wouldn't touch.

First part is true, the other part not so much.

Think of all the doctors and nurses, the professors at universities, the businessmen etc that are foreign......

[ShyBoy]

Originally posted by nckdn
My own viewpoint is that Indian and Chinese immigration has been beneficial, Pakistani, Bangladeshi and Black immigration has been unsuccessful.

Whilst looking at statistics you could justify this to an extent - that they have higher rates of offenders, that they are less likely to earn a good education and a good job and things like that - I think this is largely created by our society. Institutional racism is still present in the police force and they arrest and question more black people, so obviously the number of subsequency convictions of those people is going to be higher.

Social factors are important as well - with a much higher proportion of black etc people living in poverty than white then the type of areas they live in makes it harder for them to get far in life; whether they get caught up in gangs or just don't have the time to learn, they're stuck. I think largely this is because of 'estates' that were set up with low quality council accomodation which was often given to immigrants who had nowhere else to go - someone who is born and bred in this country usually lives with their parents until they get a mortgage or rent or something similar. These estates are nasty places with bad schools and high crime levels.

Maybe rather than saying whether it's a bad thing that immigrants are here, we should be focusing on the reason a lot of them aren't succesfully integrating into our culture - in my opinion racism has a lot to do with, with the term 'paki-bashing' still a term used in Leicestershire even today (although it sickens me that I live in the same county).

The lies spread about immigration by the media has f*cked up a lot of the governments attempts to help them settle in, with the Sun and the Daily Mail telling us that we're being 'invaded' and soon there will be no 'english' (which means in their terms, white with 20 generations of english parentage behind them) people left, this makes people xenophobic and they target this towards those they see to be the country's problems.

I think the main influences on people's lives need to be checked - the media especially - but what opinions people form from just talking with their friends, what they learn when they're growing up, how school culture affects them...

[Disillusioned]

Originally posted by Fiend_85
Three people have now voted for the last answer, hands up please? One is GWST on the basis of being silly, but I'm interested who actually has that view and why?

It wouldn’t surprise me if nckdn also voted for the last answer.

Anyway why does it matter to you so much? Do you think you’d be able to engage somebody with such an opinion into reasoned debate? Lol, good luck. But every BNP sympathiser I've came across is so adament and unyielding in their views it's a waste of time trying to discuss anything with them.

I'm not sure what right you have either to demand to know who voted for which answer. And if you're that bothered why don't you write to TheSite and suggest they don't make the polls anonymous?

[wheresmyplacebo]

Originally posted by Blagsta
Not entirely true. There is a difference between illegal immigration and people smuggling.

no the 2 are closely related... anyone who works in immigration and police will tell you

other than the people who come here on holiday or student visas and stay, most illegals come here through people smuggling

most prostitutes are illegal immigrants also who are forced to work against their wishes....

[Blagsta]

I'd say most prostitutes are drug addicts actually.

[wheresmyplacebo]

Originally posted by Blagsta
I'd say most prostitutes are drug addicts actually.

ones who started from this country are, other than the ones who are self emplyed and charge craploads for dates

most of the ones from abroad are forced into it, drugs will probably be used to keep them there too later on, but thats why i despice ilegal immigration in general, the cockle gatherers, prostitiution, no way worth coming to this country for

[Blagsta]

I agree that there is a massive problem with exploitation of illegal immigrants. But as I said - some sectors of our economy rely on it, or at least they think they do...

[morrocan roll]

Originally posted by wheresmyplacebo
erm it is cause most illegals land up in illegal jobs like prostitution , , its the harsh reality it's not the reality.
the relity is you buy a supermarket pizza that is factory made then you can almost gaurantee that pizza was put together and packaged by an illegal working in a huge factory.
same with fish fingers ...beans ...pet foods ...big respectable companies employ most of the illegals that supply your packeged foods.
not so far from me is one of the biggest pizza factories in the world ...you name it ...it probably gets made and wrapped here.
twelve hour shifts minimum. come and go by mini bus and van ...supplied by gangmasters who take ALL the money then pay out wages to the individuals.
the uk food industry would collapse without illegals.

[Blagsta]

^
what he said

[wheresmyplacebo]

Originally posted by morrocan roll
it's not the reality.
the relity is you buy a supermarket pizza that is factory made then you can almost gaurantee that pizza was put together and packaged by an illegal working in a huge factory.
same with fish fingers ...beans ...pet foods ...big respectable companies employ most of the illegals that supply your packeged foods.
not so far from me is one of the biggest pizza factories in the world ...you name it ...it probably gets made and wrapped here.
twelve hour shifts minimum. come and go by mini bus and van ...supplied by gangmasters who take ALL the money then pay out wages to the individuals.
the uk food industry would collapse without illegals.

i know they do all that, but if theyve paid someone to come into this country, chances are, theyll be forced into virtual slavery which does noone good, its like having sweatshops in this country...

why are people here defending the criminals who make these peoples lives a misery? id rather they were allowed to be legal and contribute and have rights back rather than be under control of organised crime

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by wheresmyplacebo
i know they do all that, but if theyve paid someone to come into this country, chances are, theyll be forced into virtual slavery which does noone good, its like having sweatshops in this country...

We do have sweatshops in this country.

Originally posted by wheresmyplacebo
why are people here defending the criminals who make these peoples lives a misery?

Who's doing that?

[morrocan roll]

Originally posted by Blagsta
We do have sweatshops in this country.



Who's doing that?
^
what he said.

[bluestatesman]

I'm from America and I think in any Western country...we're all immigrants. We all came from some tribe or something that moved here. Maybe it was centuries ago. Maybe it was last week. But I think it's still for the same reason: a better life where they and their loved ones can live safely. I think most countries are lucky to have most immigrants choose their country. The immigrants I've met might talk differently from me or like rice with their meals instead of potatoes....but what hard workers. And what appreciation for the freedoms and opportunities of Western democracies. I believe we do have to watch out for the few radicals and trouble-makers among them...and we have to remind ourselves that a few or many generations back...we were the odd ones. And somehow we had the chance to live "here".

On a lighter note: immigrants always have some new food to try. I am a teen eating machine.:rolleyes:

[Kermit]

Originally posted by Fiend_85
Three people have now voted for the last answer, hands up please? One is GWST on the basis of being silly, but I'm interested who actually has that view and why?

I voted for it for the same reason as my darling bethrothed.

And to the thread starter, I don't know how you can sit there and say you aren't racist with a straight face. You quite blatently are, the bias of your poll and your comments such as "increased crime" indicate this.

And racists are vermin.