Drug users are lowlifes

[Makoto]

I know people that smoke weed, take the odd bit of base or a few pills and they are nice people. They don't rob people, they ain't murdered anyone & their not big time pushers or pusher at all; yet people seem to think their just dodgy people who you wouldn't want to assocate with and if you do then that means your into drugs yourself. Why do people think like this?

It might not be the same for you but a lot of people I know seem to think this. Why?

[morrocan roll]

cos of endless misinformation.
cos of agendas by the brewers and the distillers and the drug companies.

[jake0]

its because people always think the worst with something they dont know :/

[Shogun]

People have a fear of the unknown and those anti-drug people don't know what drugs are like, they hear and assume the worst and that's it.

Stupid, misinformed people. But you can't really blame people with being fed all the shit from the government about this and that, your first pill will kill you, your first toke of ajoint and you'll turn into a raving crackhead deseprate for their next drug hit and then before you know it onto heroin and out on the street with a teenage pregenant girlfriend hooked on crack cocaine and heroin.

Yea, the world's all full of shit. :rolleyes:

[dolly dagger]

I think people think like this as drugs do seriously ruin some peoples lives, and that is what the press, media, and goverment concentrate on.

[budda]

And they can, and do ruin people's lives, there really isnt much doubt about that.

The problem is that balanced reporting doesnt sell newspapers, there has to be an edge to it, whats the point otherwise.

"Man took MDMA, felt good and open to his friends"

Isnt as good as;

"English child rose girl struck down by evil killer drug pusher"

There is no objective journalism except the stock results, and even they are always out of date.

[xmizzcattyx]

i'm a much nicer person now i'm drug free


(i know that mught be hard to believe)

[morrocan roll]

Originally posted by xmizzcattyx
i'm a much nicer person now i'm drug free


me too.

[otter]

People are scared of things they don't understand, it's as simple as that! :nervous:

[Martin_Bashir]

i'm a much nicer person now i'm drug free

i feel much better and more able to make rational decisions, my brain and moods are not erratic and i feel less anxious, although it still happens sometimes.

I do not miss ecstasy, or weed.

although i say im drug free, i do take alcohol and codeine ocasionally (NOT TOGETHER), because a bottle of codeine at the weekends on quiet Friday and Sunday nights is nice for me:)

[budda]

Martin, just because you've moved from two illegal drugs to one legal and one semi legal doesnt really mean you're 'drug free'.

Especially given that you now consume two drugs which are physically addictive.

[xmizzcattyx]

Originally posted by Martin_Bashir
[B]i feel less anxious, although it still happens sometimes.

yea i used to get panic attacks more than once a day when i was taking stuff a lot. i thought i was tking the stuff to get rid of the anxiety but when i stopped i realised it had been causing it

[Whowhere]

Some drug users aren't scum. But some are. The ones that
Import the stuff
Steal for the stuff
Kill for the stuff

Are scum.

[budda]

Originally posted by Whowhere
Some drug users aren't scum. But some are. The ones that
Import the stuff
Steal for the stuff
Kill for the stuff

Are scum.

I really fear for you becoming the next wave of policing.

Yes, some drug users steal, but thats far more to do with the law than it is to do with the drug. The legal situation forces the price far above the cost price, thus making it difficult to maintain a habit.

Drug users killing for the drug are stupidly rare.

Importers are just like any other business people really, the market dictates, you cant fight economics.

[morrocan roll]

Originally posted by Whowhere
Import the stuff

an awful lot of drug smugglers are just like 'mr nice' believe it or not.
they have nice homes and nice families and wouldn't dream of behaving in any kind of criminal manner ...
as for the U.K ...we have a long and great history of smuggling.

[budda]

Its just business, they dont have any interest in violence or killing its too much hassle and can disrupt trade.

Yes most of them will get very nasty if need be, but they dont do it in a routine way like some street dealers do.

[Shogun]

There's a market for drugs and as long as people want something there'll be someone there to get it for them.

[morrocan roll]

Originally posted by Shogun
There's a market for drugs and as long as people want something there'll be someone there to get it for them. and most of the people who get it ...drive very nice motors ...live in very nice areas ...kids are very well educated etc ...have big bank accounts and live ...in the same areas as judges ...police chiefs ...laywers ...directors ...politicians.
these ...are the people who invest large millions into the second biggest bizz on the planet and of course ...reap the benefits.
the smaller guys ...people like you and me who take a chance ...are regarded as scum.

[Martin_Bashir]

Martin, just because you've moved from two illegal drugs to one legal and one semi legal doesnt really mean you're 'drug free'.

no indeed not, in hindsight i should have made that clear (i've just read the post again and its not coming across entirely as i intended).

I have now stopped taking Codeine, and tbh i cant recommend it as a recreational drug, as it has too many complications even for a temporary distraction.

check out 'Downers' for an account of my foreay into the real of cough medicine :D :lol:

[morrocan roll]

Originally posted by Martin_Bashir
no indeed not, in hindsight i should have made that clear (i've just read the post again and its not coming across entirely as i intended).

I have now stopped taking Codeine, and tbh i cant recommend it as a recreational drug, as it has too many complications even for a temporary distraction.

check out 'Downers' for an account of my foreay into the real of cough medicine :D :lol: martin ...you do have a problem.

[Martin_Bashir]

martin ...you do have a problem.

how so? im intrigued:confused:

[morrocan roll]

Originally posted by Martin_Bashir
how so? im intrigued:confused: in the world of addiction problems and drug and drink problems that aren't always addiction problems ...there are individuals who talk about problems with substances but ...don't relate to having a problem.there are guys who drink every night on the way home from work but have no problems with the stuff.
meaning ...it isn't having any detrimental effect on them or those around them ...just a way of life.
if that way of life is showing itself to be having adverse effects on the user ...or those around them ...financialy emotionaly etc ...then it's a problem.
your showing signs of problems.

[Martin_Bashir]

ok i can see the reasoning here, but im having trouble in seeing quite how this is applicable to me based on either my use of codeine or my desire not to get drunk.

When i first started taking codeine, it was because it was fun and i derrived pleasure from it. That pleasure has now diminished to the point at which i do not wish to take it anymore.

Ditto alcohol.

have i missed or misinterpreted something:confused:

[onenatcan]

Originally posted by Felix Da Housecat
I know people that smoke weed, take the odd bit of base or a few pills and they are nice people. They don't rob people, they ain't murdered anyone & their not big time pushers or pusher at all; yet people seem to think their just dodgy people who you wouldn't want to assocate with and if you do then that means your into drugs yourself. Why do people think like this?

It might not be the same for you but a lot of people I know seem to think this. Why?

People have a right to believe that, don't they?!

Drugs still has a stigma in this society I guess. All narcotics should be legal though!

[budda]

No, no they shouldnt.

Would you like to say why freely available crack cocaine would be a good thing?

[Martin_Bashir]

Would you like to say why freely available crack cocaine would be a good thing?

or Ketamine? (yes i know its Class C, but you can be done for supply)

or Methamphetamine?

[budda]

Ketamine doesnt come under the Misuse of Drugs Act, so it doesnt have a 'class' in those terms.

Its prescribed under the Medicines Act of 1963 (isnt it? Dam I can never remember the dates) thus making supply without a licence a criminal offence.

Carrying or using personal amounts of ketamine is completely legal.

In fact it is really only the actually supplying thats the crime, so you could have 5kg and you probably couldnt get done for 'with intent'.

[onenatcan]

Originally posted by bongbudda
No, no they shouldnt.

Would you like to say why freely available crack cocaine would be a good thing?

Yes, yes they should.

A person has the right to take what they desire.

[budda]

Yes, well back in the real world we realise that sometimes people need to be protected from things that will do them harm.

[onenatcan]

Why? It's that person's right to take something that harms them.

[Martin_Bashir]

In fact it is really only the actually supplying thats the crime, so you could have 5kg and you probably couldnt get done for 'with intent'.

yeah, i thought thats what i said :confused:

i was under the impression that supply carried class c penalties (although im not sure i made this clear) or am i wrong im thinking this?

i knew someone who paid for an executive class Honda @ 17, by selling on litres of Ketamine in liquid form.

[budda]

Because, unless you hadnt noticed we live in a society, thus our actions have a knock on effect to those around us.

A balance has to be struck between the good of society and the rights of the individual.

So, if you want to live as a hermit and smoke all the rocks you want then I'm fine with that. I would however suggest that freely available crack cocaine in a coherant society would actually cross the line and societies rights win over the individual on this.

[budda]

Originally posted by Martin_Bashir
i was under the impression that supply carried class c penalties (although im not sure i made this clear) or am i wrong im thinking this?


To my knowledge its actually not classed under the Misuse of Drugs Act, so it can not carry Class C penalties.

The actual act of supply can be dealt with under the Medicines Act and carry similar penalties to Class C, but not the same.

[Martin_Bashir]

circular arguement; what about the rights of the individual to be protected for substance abuse or indeed the consequences of it.

also there is the cognative arguement against chronic crack use; at what point does the desire to use stop becoming a choice?:confused:

[LadyJade]

Originally posted by bongbudda
To my knowledge its actually not classed under the Misuse of Drugs Act, so it can not carry Class C penalties.

The actual act of supply can be dealt with under the Medicines Act and carry similar penalties to Class C, but not the same.

From Erowid (http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/ketamine/ketamine_law.shtml) U.K.
Ketamine is not controlled in the U.K. under the Misuse of Drugs Act, making it legal to possess. However sales and distribution are controlled under the Medicines Act making it illegal to sell or distribute without a license.

[Martin_Bashir]

thanks, now i understand :)

[budda]

Originally posted by Martin_Bashir
thanks, now i understand :)

What?! I said the same thing as LadyJade twice and you didnt understand it, she puts it in swanky little bracket things and then you understand it?!

Poo!

[LadyJade]

There is some point to me finding well written nuggets of information Bong, and besides, what I posted was just confirming and what you said. You just weren't as eloquent.

[budda]

Originally posted by bongbudda
Ketamine doesnt come under the Misuse of Drugs Act, so it doesnt have a 'class' in those terms.

Its prescribed under the Medicines Act of 1963 (isnt it? Dam I can never remember the dates) thus making supply without a licence a criminal offence.

Carrying or using personal amounts of ketamine is completely legal.

In fact it is really only the actually supplying thats the crime, so you could have 5kg and you probably couldnt get done for 'with intent'.

How does that not explain the whole point?

But, yes, you're indeed right, my word alone isnt really enough. Though as for using Erowid, they arent a completely trust worthy source either.

[LadyJade]

Originally posted by bongbudda
But, yes, you're indeed right, my word alone isnt really enough. Though as for using Erowid, they arent a completely trust worthy source either.

But in this case they are just reporting on the law, which is factual and not an opinion.

[budda]

Originally posted by LadyJade
But in this case they are just reporting on the law, which is factual and not an opinion.

Hmm, is it though? Have you actually checked the law?

There is no such thing as objective journalism.

And yes, I am being petty.

[LadyJade]

In this case, I was going on my memory of what I posted last time this came up, your affirmation of that, a fairly trustworthy source and the Thames Valley Police (http://www.thamesvalley.police.uk/about/drugs/law.htm) page on drugs law. I only looked at two websites because I wanted to find some nice clear wording, which Erowid generally has.

And no, you aren't being petty, I think you are being thorough, there's a difference. We are just both quite passionate about getting the correct information out there...

[budda]

Originally posted by LadyJade
And no, you aren't being petty, I think you are being thorough, there's a difference. We are just both quite passionate about getting the correct information out there...

Well yes, the correct information is good, its just important that I said it first.

[LadyJade]

Of course it is ;) You are a world dominator in waiting, you have to be seen as infallible.

[budda]

Originally posted by LadyJade
Of course it is ;) You are a world dominator in waiting, you have to be seen as infallible.

What do you mean seen as I am infallible.

[fozza]

Originally posted by Whowhere
Some drug users aren't scum. But some are. The ones that
Import the stuff
Steal for the stuff
Kill for the stuff

Are scum.

yer but if you takin da drugs and buyin dem then you are fundin da teorroists and ova criminals so dat makes u as bad as the impoters n ting.

[Blagsta]

Can you write that in English please?

[Martin_Bashir]

fozza; if you aren't taking this piss (im convince there are a few new guys on here just taking the piss) then please type in something like standard english.

This is so people who dont understand your colloquial (area specific slang/dialect) speech can understand what you are saying.

I got it but other people may not.

[budda]

Originally posted by fozza
yer but if you takin da drugs and buyin dem then you are fundin da teorroists and ova criminals so dat makes u as bad as the impoters n ting.

I think I can understand that.

Yes, some drug trade does fund terrorism, though most of it is internal type terrorism, such as in Columbia, rather than international. And of course its really only limited to cocaine and heroin.