I Give up...

[Renzo]

It looks like America is going to vote for Bush (http://www.guardian.co.uk/uselections2004/story/0,13918,1329858,00.html) There was something in the Guardian about writing to these Americans saying not to vote for George W. I guess that could have annoyed some of these 'undecided' voters but hell some of them are just rude. grah!

Edit: Well some of them anyway, most of the ones I've read are ones saying about bad teeth :rolleyes: or "You being taken to Guantanamo" Morons. The arrogance and stupidity of some of these people..

[Clandestine]

Consider what it feels like for me to watch my nation hijacked by wanton warmongering criminals and the population so insulated and misinformed they wont even open their eyes and hold them to account for all their lies.

[Renzo]

Originally posted by Clandestine
Consider what it feels like for me to watch my nation hijacked by wanton warmongering criminals and the population so insulated and misinformed they wont even open their eyes and hold them to account for all their lies.

It must feel bad. Really how can your countrymen fall for it all? I just don't know what I'll do if that maniac is re-elected :( Lose faith (more so) in America i guess.

[Clandestine]

When the vast majority of the population rely solely on televised news (and the largest percentage of those being Fox News viewers) and/or talk radio (owned entirely by Clear Channel), the level of utter misinformation of the goings on of Washington outside our shores (let alone inside the country) is astounding.

Even Goebbels would be stunned at the scope with which a continent sized nation and a population more than 3 times that of Germany can be so systematically and successfully propagandised into accepting lies as truth and willingly villifying all who attempt to open their eyes to the truth.

I am convinced that perhaps the best thing would be to have Bush win reelection and let the ruination of the economy and the nation be completed so the rabid right will no longer be able to point the blame at anyone else for their wholesale sellout of the nation for elite profit at the expense of the average man on the street.

[Aladdin]

Some of those responses could have been written by Luke himself.

Or any given member of military.com.

Not much of a surprise, really. When you see cases like this it becomes very difficult to resist the urge to stereotype Americans- even though they're naturally not all as backward as some of that lot.

Pehaps they should limit the right of vote to those who own a passport and have been abroad at least once.

[Clandestine]

Sadly that would reduce the electorate to a mere 10% of the US citizenry. A shameful indictment on the world's only superpower that so few citizens have ever bothered to learn about the rest of the world we share.

[budda]

Its pretty depressing. Especially when you consider that the national debt will be so high in four years time that the Democrats (who will win) will have to raise taxes.

Then the republicans will get back in for another 8 years of plundering of the tax pot.

[Clandestine]

All part of the corporate-serving charade that my countrymen ignorantly believe is any form of exportable role model for viable democracy.

[katchika]

Those letters are hilarious.

[Clandestine]

Glad you have such a good humor about them. As an American living abroad I personally find the responses all too characteristic of both the ignorance and arrogance of my countrymen.

A real embarrassment and shame for a nation with so much potential for constructive contribution to the planet.

[LabRat]

Originally posted by Clandestine
Consider what it feels like for me to watch my nation hijacked by wanton warmongering criminals and the population so insulated and misinformed they wont even open their eyes and hold them to account for all their lies.
If I understand you correctly you think your nation hijacked by one godfather’s ( Luciano Kerry) gang will be happier than the same nation hijacked by other godfather’s ( Vittone Bush) gang?
Maybe… but are you sure you know the difference? I don’t. Both Mafiosi are pro-war, pro-military-industrial complex, pro-Patriot Act, pro-Homeland Security, pro-Big State and Big Spending, pro-corporate subsidies, pro-Welfare State, pro- the war on drugs, the-war-on-poverty, the war-on-terrorism, the-war-on-pornography, the-war-on-leaking-houses and other endless wars they always lead but never win, pro- massive spying and massive brainwashing, pro- WTO’s and IMF’s ruled world economy, pro- Pax Americana maniacs.
I watch TV and read newspapers at times but even turning them upside down I can’t see any difference…
You maybe got some kind of microscope I don’t have?

[Clandestine]

No LabRat, I never said that the Democrats were any knights in shining armour, nor did I suggest that Kerry and his advisors would right all wrongs perpetrated in the past 4 years.

I consider both parties to be two sides of the same corporate controlled coin. Nevertheless, given that all I can hope for (knowing the elctoral process of my country as I do) at this stage is a mere incremental change away from blind pursuit of the unilateralist, hegemonic and overtly militaristic agenda of the PNAC cabal currently in power to a somewhat more moderate stance, I would accept that as a starting point.

Having said that, I refer back to my previous suggestion that perhaps the only thing which might wake up my ignorant countrymen en masse would be a further 4 years of Bush in which to utterly destroy the domestic economy, the social security system and the employment prospects for the forthcoming generation of universtiy graduates. Beyond that, 4 more years to entrench the McCarthyistic police state to the point where exercising of one's constitutional right to free speech and political dissent lands average American citizens in indefinite detention.

Maybe then, the Right will be disgraced and cast down once and for all and a real political revolution for progressives like myself can be realised.

[budda]

Thats pretty hopeful, whats far more likely is that when the Democrats try and fix the big hole in the budget they will get voted out.

[The Matadore]

WHat the fuck do you expect, if an arrogant Guardian reader wrote to me demanding I vote for someone Id tell him where to shove it.

The fact that they are writing from a completly different country makes things even worse.

[Renzo]

Originally posted by The Matadore
WHat the fuck do you expect, if an arrogant Guardian reader wrote to me demanding I vote for someone Id tell him where to shove it.

The fact that they are writing from a completly different country makes things even worse.

It was no demand. From what i read it was supposed to be polite letters. Personally I can't see how ANYONE can be stupid enough to vote for that backwards Texan.

[Fiend_85]

Originally posted by Renzokuken
It was no demand. From what i read it was supposed to be polite letters. Personally I can't see how ANYONE can be stupid enough to vote for that backwards Texan.

Because he's solid, never changes his mind, never goes back on himself, he's funny and charming, and makes mistakes in his speech that can be considered endearing. That's why.

[Aladdin]

Originally posted by The Matadore
WHat the fuck do you expect, if an arrogant Guardian reader wrote to me demanding I vote for someone Id tell him where to shove it.

The fact that they are writing from a completly different country makes things even worse. Would you be so outraged if it were a Telegraph reader asking you to vote Tory?

[Renzo]

Originally posted by Fiend_85
Because he's solid, never changes his mind, never goes back on himself, he's funny and charming, and makes mistakes in his speech that can be considered endearing. That's why.

Funny and Charming? :eek2:

But he is also an idiot and and beleives that God talks to him and a warmongerer. I am really scared what will happen to the world if he gets reelected.

[Fiend_85]

Originally posted by Renzokuken
Funny and Charming? :eek2:

But he is also an idiot and and beleives that God talks to him and a warmongerer. I am really scared what will happen to the world if he gets reelected.

No, he's not an idiot at all. People right him off as an idiot, it's a dangerous mistake to make. Many christians believe that God 'talks' to them, which can mean many things, considering the culture for christianity in the states this is not a bad thing.

[Clandestine]

Friend, Bush is an idiot. He is also a dangerous lifelong untreated alcoholic with megolomaniac tendencies and a presumption to unaccountability given the demonstrable and repeated bailouts he has received thanks to his father's power and influence.

One need only look at his academic record of mediocrity to see that his entrance into Yale ahead of many more qualified applicants was due to not one but two prominent legacies (grandpa Prescott and daddy Bush). Moreover, his repeated business failures and subsequent bailouts from dad and his cronies, his evasion of investigative repercussions for securities fraud from his sale of his Harken Oil stocks in advance of revelations of accounting fraud, and his penchant for smearing any who expose his wrongdoings (attack the meesenger to bury the message) all make him a most dengerously inept man for the most powerful office in the land if not the world.

The real minds behind him who run this administration's policy agenda are even more dangerous for the collective experience and collusion with past government corruption scandals that they bring to the table. Bush is merely the front man kept well in tow by Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Feith, and external advisor Perle (all of whom are traceable back to the Nixon adminsitration and more importantly party to the Iran Contra debacle of the Reagan Era).

[Fiend_85]

Either he's not as thick as we think, or he was wired to the teeth for all three debates, not just the 2nd one.

[wheresmyplacebo]

Originally posted by Fiend_85
Either he's not as thick as we think, or he was wired to the teeth for all three debates, not just the 2nd one.


from what i saw it werent really a debate though, its was just pre rehearsed speeches with very little if no interaction between which would make it good

[Fiend_85]

Definatly not debates in the conventional sence

Don't get me wrong I hate Bush, I just want to make it clear that it's not hard to see why he's electable.

[wheresmyplacebo]

Originally posted by Fiend_85
Definatly not debates in the conventional sence

Don't get me wrong I hate Bush, I just want to make it clear that it's not hard to see why he's electable.

its not hard to see why americans love him, but i can see how hes unelectable in most of the western world

not dissing americans who vote for him




































much :lol:

[Clandestine]

Well that was no rumple in his jacket thats for sure, but that aside you have to understand that televised US presidential debates dont require intellect. They are scripted and agreed upon in advance with both candidates having supervisory authority over both the format and the questions.

There is no real engagement on any issue nor are there any surprises intended to catch out either candidate and force them to think on their feet or (in the case of the incumbent) to actually answer for his record in office, positive or negative.

They are essentially nothing more than corporate advertiser-driven soudbite platforms for a dumbed down US population to judge based on appearance, not substance.

[wheresmyplacebo]

Originally posted by Clandestine
Well that was no rumple in his jacket thats for sure, but that aside you have to understand that televised US presidential debates dont require intellect. They are scripted and agreed upon in advance with both candidates having sueprvisory authority over both the format and the questions.

There is no real engagement on any issue nor are there any surprises intended to catch out either candidate and force them to think on their feet or (in the case of the incumbent) to actually answer for his record in office, positive or negative).

They are essentially nothing more than corporate advertiser-driven soudbite platforms for a dumbed down US population to judge based on appearance, not substance.

AMEN

[Fiend_85]

Agreed, but you can see the point I was trying to make?

[Clandestine]

I suppose, however it has nothing to do with Bush himself nor his actual intellect. This is what I was trying to point out to you based on your first premise.

[Fiend_85]

Originally posted by Clandestine
I suppose, however it has nothing to do with Bush himself nor his actual intellect. This is what I was trying to point out to you based on your first premise.

yeah, but people deliberatly overlook his faults.

[Clandestine]

Theyve overlooked more than his personal faults im afraid. Try his administration's entire record for the past four years!

[Disillusioned]

Absolutely typical of the patronising, self-righteous dickheads at the Guardian. For a British newspaper to tell foreign people how to vote in an overseas election is ridiculous. If the French had the cheek to tell Brits how to vote in elections we’d react similarly. What the smug, out-of-touch with reality, ignorant fools at the Guardian who planned this absurd initiative fail to realise is that the more Europeans appear to be telling Americans to vote Democrat the more likely Americans are to vote Bush.

I’m hoping for a Democrat win, I don’t feel the need to stick my nose in however and I oppose stupid ideas like this that will decrease Kerry’s chances.

[Fiend_85]

Originally posted by Clandestine
Theyve overlooked more than his personal faults im afraid. Try his administration's entire record for the past four years!

Bare in mind that it's a choice between 'wishy washy' Kerry and Bush.

[Clandestine]

"wishy washy" being the label ascribed to him by an administration which has done more reversals than a driver's ed student. You need to put those labels where they truly belong, with those who can only tell more lies to cover up for previous lies at every turn.

[Fiend_85]

Originally posted by Clandestine
"wishy washy" being the label ascribed to him by an administration which has done more reversals than a driver's ed student. You need to put those labels where they truly belong, with those who can only tell more lies to cover up for previous lies at every turn.

Absolutly, the problem is perception and perspective, and it is possible and almost easy to see both.

[Aladdin]

Originally posted by Disillusioned
Absolutely typical of the patronising, self-righteous dickheads at the Guardian. For a British newspaper to tell foreign people how to vote in an overseas election is ridiculous. But presumably for the S*n or Daily Torygraph here, as well as the NY Post and surely every other right wing media in the US and elsewhere, it is perfectly okay to 'warn' citizens of other nations not to vote for certain people or to condemn them if they do?

Go check the things that were written immediately before and after the Spanish election by the Scum and Telegraph.

And yes, I acknowledge that providing names and addresses so readers can write to the electorate is going further than writing editorial pieces- but then again, the Guardian did not ask anyone to write in support of Kerry- unlike some newspaper editors who somehow believe to be in possession of the absolute truth and who see themselves fit to judge whole nations as 'foolish' or 'appeasers' if they dare to vote to the 'wrong' candidate.

There were actually many letters sent in support of Bush- some of them from the USA itself. I presume many newspapers will be kicking themselves for not thinking about it first.

And there is one last point: the US election has (sadly) and effect on all of us. I knew whom I wanted to win in Australia on a matter of principle, but I would never think of writing to an Australian pleading him to vote certain way because it is an internal affair. But with the US is different. With the US we have a candidate who is a crazy, fundamentalist, polluting, warmongering, dangerous and unstable twat who is going to succeed in killing us all one way of another, be through global warming or global war. And we have another candidate, who to the best knowledge of everyone is nothing like that. So it's perfectly understandable if people of the world feel compelled to act.

[BlackArab]

As a Guardian reader I cringed when I saw this idea. To me it could be counter-productive as the American people don't need foreigners writing to them to tell them how to vote anymore than we do.

I would be outraged if an American (or any other) newspaper gave their readership my name and address and told them to write to me before an election.

Why are people surprised that they reacted like this?

[eefs]

I was never mad about Bush, still not, but watching his speech at the Republican convention there recently, I agree with Fiend_85. It is not hard to see why he is elected. He is the guy that most Americans would like to sit down and have a beer with.

Whoever wrote that particular speech knew who they were trying to get at. And s/he did it perfectly. This quote, in particular, sums up the new approach his team seem to be taking: "One thing I have learned about the presidency is that whatever shortcomings you have, people are going to notice them; and whatever strengths you have, you're going to need them"

He noticing he has faults and recognising them.

We're still all screwed if he wins though. :p

[Whowhere]

"Please be advised I have forwarded this to the CIA and FBI".

LMFAO!!!!

They've got enough trouble over there with people sabotaging the vote without trying to prosecute a national newspaper for trying to influence it!

[Whowhere]

by the way, what is it with them cussing our teeth? I have perfect teeth, cleaned and repaired for FREE.
I don't have to pay X number of dollars to get it done.

[Renzo]

Originally posted by Whowhere
by the way, what is it with them cussing our teeth? I have perfect teeth, cleaned and repaired for FREE.
I don't have to pay X number of dollars to get it done.

Obviously they think we all have bad teeth like we think they are all fat and dumb....oh wait.... ;)

[Whowhere]

But every tv show that comes from the US shows how fat and dumb they can be.
The only ones I've seen about our teeth are the Simpsons and the odd Friends episode...which are American :lol: