Blair to sort out incapacity benefits....

[lukesh]

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2004481116,00.html

Blair knows he needs money to sort out the pension, therefore he also knows that over half who are on incapacity benefits are on for depression back pain etc (The ones I have already mentioned to you guys and you do not believe me), so he will kick these off as he knwos they are capable of working.

Sound idea Blair - if only you didn't let it get like this in the first place.

[BumbleBee]

Originally posted by lukesh
Sound idea Blair - if only you didn't let it get like this in the first place.

Oh shit, yeah thats right, nobody played the system before '97.

[Kermit]

And not that many people play the system now, either.

You seem to have a problem accepting that depression is a debilitating illness Luke. Unless you have been there PROPERLY then you have no idea what it can do.

If "half" of all IB claimnats are playing the system then I think Kilroy-Silk is fit to run the country.

[lukesh]

Originally posted by BumbleBee
Oh shit, yeah thats right, nobody played the system before '97. Idiot!

Of course they did, but I feel now that it is being abused a lot more as the government has made it easier.

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Kermit
And not that many people play the system now, either.
LOL.... two words.... Get Real!

Originally posted by Kermit

You seem to have a problem accepting that depression is a debilitating illness Luke. Unless you have been there PROPERLY then you have no idea what it can do.
Mate you do not seem to understand what I am getting act, infact none of you do!

Depression is a serious illness, as well as back pain, arthritus etc.
I have had depression and know what it feels like.
It is like life is so crap you just cry for no reason.
I have managed to beat it my self with my own strengh has I had the belief that I could, and I am doing fine right now!

Anyway...
As I said, I understand these are serious illnesses.
BUT.... people are making it up that they have back pains, that they have depression, just so they can receive incapacity benefit and therefore do not have to work.

I really feel sorry for them poor chaps who are depressed, who have back pain that are genuine people claiming incapacity. As these people are being classed the same as the over a million people who are claiming incapacity just so they don't have to work.

All I am against is the system being abused and therefore the genuine people who need the system are laughed at.
Why should they be laughed at?
It's rediculous.

Whatever your opinion on this issue, you must realise that there are so many people abusing it right now and it needs to be sorted out.
Then many of us will be proud of our welfare system!

Originally posted by Kermit

If "half" of all IB claimnats are playing the system then I think Kilroy-Silk is fit to run the country. He certainly is then!

[ShyBoy]

Luke, how can you prove that half of the people claiming incapacity benefits are fakes? Everyone I know who claims it have genuine reasons why they can't work. Maybe where you live there is a half of people who you beleive to be scrounging, but perhaps that's because you live in a particularly abusive area. Or more likely, you are seeing one or two cases and beleive it is representative of the whole country and use the tiniest bit of real evidence to make huge conclusions - like 'half of all IB claimaints are frauds'.

[lukesh]

Originally posted by TheShyBoyInTheCorner
Luke, how can you prove that half of the people claiming incapacity benefits are fakes? Everyone I know who claims it have genuine reasons why they can't work. Maybe where you live there is a half of people who you beleive to be scrounging, but perhaps that's because you live in a particularly abusive area. Or more likely, you are seeing one or two cases and beleive it is representative of the whole country and use the tiniest bit of real evidence to make huge conclusions - like 'half of all IB claimaints are frauds'. I bas emy assumptions on what i read on TELETEXT (NOT the sun!!!!!) and what I see (Where I live).

When I describe what people get up to here none of you guys believe me, like... are you living in a different world to me? Why can't you understand that so many people are abusing the system.

[BumbleBee]

Originally posted by lukesh
Idiot!


:lol: Riiiiiight. Why don't you shut up, really?

[BumbleBee]

Originally posted by lukesh


Depression is a serious illness, as well as back pain, arthritus etc.
I have had depression and know what it feels like.
It is like life is so crap you just cry for no reason.
I have managed to beat it my self with my own strengh has I had the belief that I could, and I am doing fine right now!


Bollocks did you have depression - you were probably just feeling a little blue.

[lukesh]

Originally posted by BumbleBee
:lol: Riiiiiight. Why don't you shut up, really? same to you.

[lukesh]

Originally posted by BumbleBee
Bollocks did you have depression - you were probably just feeling a little blue. yeah course you should know.

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by lukesh
he also knows that over half who are on incapacity benefits are on for depression back pain etc

Oh fuck off luke, you insensitive wanker. Go play with the traffic or something.

cunt. :mad: :mad: :mad:

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by lukesh
I bas emy assumptions on what i read on TELETEXT (NOT the sun!!!!!) and what I see (Where I live).

Oh god :banghead:

Originally posted by lukesh
are you living in a different world to me?

Quite obviously, you fucking lunatic.

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Blagsta
Oh fuck off luke, you insensitive wanker. Go play with the traffic or something.

cunt. :mad: :mad: :mad: why not get into the real world?

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Blagsta
Oh god :banghead:



Quite obviously, you fucking lunatic. look at you.... absolutely pathetic.... getting wound up over this....

mate it's more fool you not to believe this.

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by lukesh
why not get into the real world?

I am, you scum sucking piece of shit. That's why I'm so fucking angry at your ignorance. You're gonna have a shock when you eventually grow up.

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Blagsta
I am, you scum sucking piece of shit. That's why I'm so fucking angry at your ignorance. You're gonna have a shock when you eventually grow up. go back bed!

Your just a fool mate, feel sorry for you really.

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by lukesh
look at you.... absolutely pathetic.... getting wound up over this....

mate it's more fool you not to believe this.

I work with recovering addicts and a lot of them are on the sick. I'd love you to come to one of the projects where I work and tell them they're all faking it. See what sort of reaction you'll get.

Wanker. :mad:

[BumbleBee]

Originally posted by lukesh
why not get into the real world?

I think Blagsta is far more in the 'real world' than you will ever be Luke.

[Kermit]

There are a million IB claimants. They are all faking it.

Right.

So that means there are a million doctors who are liars.

No, I don't think that's right either.

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Blagsta
I work with recovering addicts and a lot of them are on the sick. I'd love you to come to one of the projects where I work and tell them they're all faking it. See what sort of reaction you'll get.

Wanker. :mad: ohhhhhh right this is why you are so angrey at my comments. You are in a location where everyone who claims incapcity are genuine. Well welcome to the robbin dog world!

[lukesh]

Originally posted by BumbleBee
I think Blagsta is far more in the 'real world' than you will ever be Luke. Is he? Why is it when I talk about my personal experinces he says I am a lair, so do you, so you most of you....

You do not have a clue seriously!

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Kermit
There are a million IB claimants. They are all faking it.

Right.

So that means there are a million doctors who are liars.

No, I don't think that's right either. If you read the article it says that doctors are signing people up with no good evidense.

[BumbleBee]

If you read the article it says that doctors are signing people up with no good evidense.
If someone goes to a doctor with the symptoms of an illness the doctor will give them a sick note. They have to. That is their job.

You might also want to rephrase your 'signing people up' comment.

[lukesh]

Originally posted by BumbleBee
If someone goes to a doctor with the symptoms of an illness the doctor will give them a sick note. They have to. That is their job.

You might also want to rephrase your 'signing people up' comment. just read up the symptons on the net and your sorted!

[BumbleBee]

Originally posted by lukesh
just read up the symptons on the net and your sorted!

You go to see your GP and say you're depressed and technically you should accept some form of treatment, like counselling, medication etc. You should also really have blood tests to see if your depression could be caused by low hormone levels etc. People who want to play the system and read up on it do exist and always have, but those people are found out. Doctors are well aware of 'textbook' symptoms and know how to ask the right questions. It is very rare a faker will get to the stage of being on incapacity benefit because before that happens they will have to be signed off for a significant amount of time from work or the dole. Then they are usually asked to go to an independent practitioner for an examination.

As you seem to know very little about the medical system I'd shut up if I were you. Also, GPs can be prosecuted for giving out sick notes etc to people who aren't really ill, so it is in their best interests to get it right.

Yes, a rather small minority of people fiddle the system. We've all heard about Mr X who's 'on the sick' for a bad back but was seen only last week fixing his car or washing windows on the side but the govt. can hardly be blamed for that. If you are sooo bothered why don't you get out there and report these people that you see fiddleing the system. Remember, you are always telling us how you base what you think on what you see, so you must be seeing people fiddleing the system - shop them.

[lukesh]

i give up on you.... i am not going to keep arguing and get no where.

[BumbleBee]

Originally posted by lukesh
i give up on you.... i am not going to keep arguing and get no where.

You see, you betray yourself. We aren't arguing, we are having what is commonly called a debate. Grow up, please. You seem to think that a debate is won by who can shout the loudest and who can get the most silly phrases in like 'oh I give up on you' and 'lol, yeah right mate, grow up' or even 'get in the real world'. These things do not a good debate make and that is why people have tired of you so readily. You try to make valid points but don't defend them with common sense.

Here you have decided that you don't have a come back for what I've written and because I have said something about a system you know nothing about you are willing to drop the whole subject. You haven't learnt anything from the debate at all, except how to give up.

The whole point in debate is to fight your corner and perhaps learn something new. You don't need to 'get anywhere' to be successful in a debate, you just need to counteract the other persons argument. I'm not suggesting I'm particulalry good at it myself, but you're terrible at it. You just end up saying silly things that betray your obvious lack of political education. In actual fact everything you say seems to be based on the opinions of sources like BBC News, what you see in your local environment (wake up Luke, there is a world outside Stoke!) and teletext!

[lukesh]

you don't know me get lost, leave me a lone, giuve me a break! sod off!

[lukesh]

can i bloody win? can I heck!

I get told to read the BBC as it is the least biased source of media out there - now I done for it. :rolleyes:

[BumbleBee]

Originally posted by lukesh
you don't know me get lost, leave me a lone, giuve me a break! sod off!

Aww :crying:

Here, have your rattle back.

[lukesh]

Originally posted by BumbleBee
Aww :crying:

Here, have your rattle back. your the kid - you keep it!]

[BumbleBee]

Originally posted by lukesh
your the kid - you keep it!]

I think you'll find that should read 'you're' rather than your.

Keep it up sweetheart, you're proving my point time and time again. :)

[Kermit]

No, stargalaxy was right.

The "dumbest poster" award does still rest with Lukesh.

Can wwe have PNJ back? Even he was better.

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by lukesh
ohhhhhh right this is why you are so angrey at my comments. You are in a location where everyone who claims incapcity are genuine. Well welcome to the robbin dog world!

Oh just fuck off will you.

[lukesh]

Originally posted by BumbleBee
I think you'll find that should read 'you're' rather than your.

Keep it up sweetheart, you're proving my point time and time again. :) don't you have better things to do? and is that what you call fun? how sad.

you are there telling me what to do.... focus on your self, leave me a lone.

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Blagsta
Oh just fuck off will you. most people want YOU to fuck off so why don't you?

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Kermit
No, stargalaxy was right.

The "dumbest poster" award does still rest with Lukesh.

Can wwe have PNJ back? Even he was better. grow up man your at university act like it man!

[Kermit]

Originally posted by lukesh
If you read the article it says that doctors are signing people up with no good evidense.

I did read the article.

And it does say that.

But there are no facts to prove it, there are no sources to illustrate the point. Without proof "fact" is simply opinion.

And given the article was written by The Sun, that opinion isn't worth a shit.

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by lukesh
most people want YOU to fuck off so why don't you?

Is this another one of your evidence free assertions?

[BumbleBee]

Originally posted by lukesh
don't you have better things to do? and is that what you call fun? how sad.

you are there telling me what to do.... focus on your self, leave me a lone.

Sonny, alone is one word. How can you get to 16 years old and not know that? (as is yourself for that matter)

Yes, I have better things I could be doing with my time, but I'm choosing to do them simultaneously. And no, this is not what I call fun, never said it was, so you 'how sad' comment is rather wasted.

[Kermit]

Originally posted by lukesh
most people want YOU to fuck off so why don't you?

No, I think you'll find that you are top of the "fuck off" list.

I'd hate to have to start a poll to prove this.

[BumbleBee]

Originally posted by lukesh
grow up man your at university act like it man!

I think you'll find he isn't.

[Kermit]

Originally posted by lukesh
grow up man your at university act like it man!

Oh dear.

Will you ever get a fact right?

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Kermit
No, I think you'll find that you are top of the "fuck off" list.

I'd hate to have to start a poll to prove this. wel you have the ingredients to do so..... i.e your sad

[Kermit]

Originally posted by lukesh
wel you have the ingredients to do so..... i.e your sad

well. you're.

You're quite right, I am sad. Distraught, in fact. I have crumbled before the very weight of your insult, it has destroyed every last shred of my confidence.

Sir, I am humbled before you.

[Fiend_85]

Originally posted by BumbleBee


I bow to you. You honour us with your presence and superior posting skill.

[Braineater]

£58.80 a week (if lucky)

times 2.7 million.

= £1.59 billion a week

over a year

= roughly £82.6 Billion.

Half of that is £41.3 billion. (Roughly 2.6% of GDP at around £1.6 Trillion)

Cutting the disablity claimants by half won't solve the pensions deficit.

[morrocan roll]

Originally posted by lukesh


the government has made it easier. i don't believe it is easy knowing a number of people who deserve to get it but can't.
when maggie hatchet was in power and the unemployment figures were becoming outragous ...she shoved loads of people onto incapacity ...so they wouldn't show up as unemployed.
another ruse she pulled off ...a lot of unemployed people at the time were not entitled to unemployment benefit so got social security instead ...these people didn't show up on the unemployment figures either.
when company directors and business in general are stealing ...was it 48 billion quid a year ...why are you so concerned about a few people fiddling sixty quid a week?

[budda]

The biggest problem is that incapacity benefit is higher than just plain unemployment.

This leads to misunderstandings in the figures.

Unemployment is at record lows, but incapacity is at record highs.

Those able to do some work but unable to find a job that suits thier illness are classed not as unemployed but as incapable.

I heard the figure of 7 million on this benefit, surely we arent that sick a nation?

[Kermit]

It wouldn't take very much for me to be "incapable" of working, if I was lightly more honest about my illness or slightly less flexible about treatment times then I wouldn't be able to find any job. It's already hard as it is.

Most people on IB are honest- there is no way that they couldn't be.

What I find a bit rich is The Sun talking about "benefit cheats" when they are owned by a man who renounced his nationality for tax reasons, and is one of the largest tax-dodgers going.

All The Sun does is perpetuate the old divide-and-rule principle- get the lower clases blaming each other for their problems and the hyper-rich, like Mr Murdoch, can get away with it scot-free.

[budda]

To deny any fraud though is going over the top, I reported someone I knew was milking it about a month ago.

[Blagsta]

Of course there is fraud, but it is nowhere the scale that is claimed.

[hobbs]

Originally posted by bongbudda
To deny any fraud though is going over the top, I reported someone I knew was milking it about a month ago.

and I know people who have tried.

It is quite hard to get IB, but for someone on here to say

Most people on IB are honest.

is a little head in the clouds, most people I know are but that is very different from most people

putting it a slightly different way, I know max 50 people on it, but that out of 2.7 million people claiming is an irrelevant amount and a figure of next to zero significance.

Bong has touched on something i raised a while back. Unemployment is at an all time low, while those on IB has risen, and some claim that the rises and falls match quite closely.

[hobbs]

p.s. please can we avoid

slagging Luke off
it doesn't make nice reading

and luke don't make it worse

[ShyBoy]

Originally posted by hobbs
Bong has touched on something i raised a while back. Unemployment is at an all time low, while those on IB has risen, and some claim that the rises and falls match quite closely.

Coule you put in plainest English what you mean? :) I'm sorry, I'm just a little confused. And you could take those 50 people you know as representative, with other people on here who know so many odd people as representative, and the majority of our representation of IB claimants would be reasonably accurate most likely, unless of course we all have osme strange habit of only knowing people who genuinely need it.

[hobbs]

Originally posted by TheShyBoyInTheCorner
Coule you put in plainest English what you mean? :) I'm sorry, I'm just a little confused. And you could take those 50 people you know as representative, with other people on here who know so many odd people as representative, and the majority of our representation of IB claimants would be reasonably accurate most likely, unless of course we all have some strange habit of only knowing people who genuinely need it.

i think what I mean is this:
(not accurate figures btw)
unemployment fell by 1 million over the last 2 years
the number of those claiming IB has risen by 1 million over the last two years.

so... people assume that the govt take people off unemployment benefit and put them on to IB.

while this may be a more appropriate benefit for them some people argue that it makes the unemployment figures look very good and is therefore quite suspicious.

however finding the actual figures to back this up is hard - I'm not even sure if they exist.

if all the people on here only know people who claim legitimately then that could be seen as an accurate guide but at a random guess (again, I know) if 50 people on here know 50 people on benefit we have a total of 2500 people known to be on IB. of the total figure this is still only 0.1%. we would need to increase our sample size quite considerably to be more accurate

there is high likelihood that we only know people who claim it appropriately if we look at the demographics (including socio + political) of those who posts on here. What I mean by this is taking a cross section of politics posters we have people with relatives with a disabilities, people who work with problematic drug users, people that work for charities, the NHS and so on. We have also had people state that their partners would do any job other than claim benefit.

does that make anymore sense?

[Kermit]

Originally posted by hobbs
Bong has touched on something i raised a while back. Unemployment is at an all time low, while those on IB has risen, and some claim that the rises and falls match quite closely.

I don't think that saying "most" people are honest is head in the clouds, to be fair. Cheats are around, always have been around, always will be around, that does not mean that most people are cheats.

But yes, the sample is quite small, that much is true.

The paragraph I've quoted is more to the point I feel- Governments change the rules so that unemployment is low, and they shunt people onto other benefits, but that is not the same as saying the claimants that have had the rules changed for them are dishonest.

[budda]

They were talking about this on Radio 4 last night. It said that in some parts of the country some 1 in 6 of the adult population are on this benefit.

Surely something is deeply wrong with that!

I'm not suggesting that they are fraudsters, but all of those can NOT be incurable illnesses. If they are then we really need to look at the enviroment.

Mental health problems can be just as incapacitating as physical ones, but they can be solved (sometimes) and should be solved. It would be cheaper in the long term.

[ShyBoy]

Just a sample case here: my girlfriend's dad had a bad ahstma attack about a year ago which gave him slight brain damage, so he was really weak and had to use a walking stick etc. He had a fall down the stairs and broke his arm, but his work wouldn't let him return to work. They were struggling and almost had to sell their house because they didn't have enough income with him being on sick pay. They finally did let him return to work but I think it is true to a certain extent that employers much prefer healthy people who are less likely to get ill, so those unemployed may in fact be less healthy than normal people. It doesn't mean they can't work, but if the reason they aren't working is because they're unhealthy (i.e won't get employed) then surely they're allowed benefits to cover their costs until they are better?

Though if we are all honest, £58 is almost nothing. Especially when you have a family or what not.

[hobbs]

Originally posted by Kermit
I don't think that saying "most" people are honest is head in the clouds, to be fair. Cheats are around, always have been around, always will be around, that does not mean that most people are cheats.


i agree

it is also frustrating when there are those who should be given IB aren't - that only leads to greater feelings of injustice and that can lead to wild statements about people being cheats and getting something they don't deserve.

[morrocan roll]

Originally posted by bongbudda
To deny any fraud though is going over the top, I reported someone I knew was milking it about a month ago. i'll get ready for the self rightous to give me a kicking ...what a busybody! a curtain twitcher ...a nosey cnut.
reminds me of a line from a tom waits song ...'at the gates of heaven your all sharpening YOUR knives on MY sins ...'

[budda]

Originally posted by morrocan roll
i'll get ready for the self rightous to give me a kicking ...what a busybody! a curtain twitcher ...a nosey cnut.
reminds me of a line from a tom waits song ...'at the gates of heaven your all sharpening YOUR knives on MY sins ...'

Do you want to explain to me why I should pay for someone to sit on their arse and get benefit even though I KNOW they are not disabled?

[morrocan roll]

Originally posted by bongbudda
Do you want to explain to me why I should pay for someone to sit on their arse and get benefit even though I KNOW they are not disabled? how did i know that was coming?
what the fucks it got to do with you?
i don't want to live in a society of informants ...if you discover someone in your own family has earned/aquired a few quid tax free ...you going to turn them in?
kunt.

[major_tom]

bollocks. why should you work your arse off so that some lazy workshy scum can fleece the system? not only does it piss off the taxpayer, it also leaves genuine claimants open to criticism. if more people did report the scammers it would discourage them from doing it in the first place. i would call that responsible citizenship too, it's not some third reich style "denounce the neighbours for ideological crimes" before anyone draws that parallel!

[Kermit]

Dobbing on benefit cheats is perfectly reasonable, and something all good citizens should do.

I would also bar those who have been caught scamming the system from ever being entitled to any benefit ever again, regardless of their circumstances.

[morrocan roll]

Originally posted by Kermit
regardless of their circumstances. if you discover someone in your own family has earned/aquired a few quid tax free ...you going to turn them in?

[major_tom]

yeah, the trouble is the prevailing attitude in this country that screw everyone else, i'll get every penny i can. there is a very tangible anti authority attitude at the moment, and it cant just be attributed to fake burberry wearing scum.

[Kermit]

Originally posted by morrocan roll
if you discover someone in your own family has earned/aquired a few quid tax free ...you going to turn them in?

Not paying tax is one thing.

Diddling the benefits system is a different thing.

Loads of us have, um, neglected to pay tax on work. Oops.

It's not theft. Claiming benefits that you are not entitled to is.

[morrocan roll]

Originally posted by Kermit
Not paying tax is one thing.

Diddling the benefits system is a different thing.

ho ho ho ...bong grassed his nieghbour up on the grounds of tax ...
it's all theft and it's the usual double standards ...'it's ok to fiddle the taxman but not the social insecurity man.'
it's ok for one group of people to steal but not another ...same as it ever was!

[Kermit]

Not paying something is not theft.

Taking something that you have no right to is.

It's quite a simple line to draw.

[morrocan roll]

Originally posted by Kermit
Not paying something is not theft.

Taking something that you have no right to is.

It's quite a simple line to draw. and this is how those at the top justify stealing 84billion quid every year from the tax payer.
there are only 2.7 million people claiming sicko money ...so there can't be that many fiddling it ...according to one of your own posts ...but as usual ...those at the bottom who fiddle a few quid are seen and treated like scum ...whilst the rest of us respectably steal off all the honest tax payers ...
thats why i called bong a kunt ...unless bong can prove he is a saint ...then i will not retract that statement.

[Kermit]

The rich only dodge more tax because they earn more cash.

How many builders, plumbers, delivery men, forget to add all their work into the VAT book? I've had my car fixed cash-in-hand before, bet that didn't get lodged as income, and I bet tax wasn't paid on it.

I've said before that avoiding tax is perfectly morally acceptable if you are the avoider. Why should a Government leech off your hard work?

[morrocan roll]

Originally posted by Kermit
The rich only dodge more tax because they earn more cash.

How many builders, plumbers, delivery men, forget to add all their work into the VAT book? I've had my car fixed cash-in-hand before, bet that didn't get lodged as income, and I bet tax wasn't paid on it.

I've said before that avoiding tax is perfectly morally acceptable if you are the avoider. Why should a Government leech off your hard work? come on kermy ...if your going to be a lawyer ...you gotta do better than this load o baloney!

[NaCN]

Compared to what the rich diddle us out of, what the people who claim benefit do is nothing.

;)

[The Doc]

Originally posted by morrocan roll
come on kermy ...if your going to be a lawyer ...you gotta do better than this load o baloney!

What have you got to say that can possibly defend benefit fraud that isn't just saying "oh, but what they are doing is worse!"?

[Kermit]

Originally posted by morrocan roll
if your going to be a lawyer

I'm not anymore.

My morals are shady, but I have some;)

[Kermit]

Originally posted by NaCN
Compared to what the rich diddle us out of, what the people who claim benefit do is nothing.

I think someone far better than yourself already said that:p

[NaCN]

Originally posted by Kermit
I think someone far better than yourself already said that:p

:o

Quote Tax

[morrocan roll]

Originally posted by Kermit
I'm not anymore.

My morals are shady, but I have some;) gordon bennet man ...estate agent?

[Kermit]

Originally posted by morrocan roll
gordon bennet man ...estate agent?

Who knows.

I can't find owt at the minute :crying:

[Kermit]

Originally posted by NaCN
:o

Quote Tax

I propose a moron tax.

Every time a moron posts on here, they have to give me £50.

[morrocan roll]

Originally posted by Kermit
Who knows.

I can't find owt at the minute :crying: i'm sure your recent interview will find you at the grindstone ...if not theres always incapacity benefit. but don't let bong see you doing all that housework fort missus.

[morrocan roll]

Originally posted by Kermit
I propose a moron tax.

Every time a moron posts on here, they have to give me £50. thats top salary then innit!

[Kermit]

Originally posted by morrocan roll
thats top salary then innit!

Yup.

And I wouldn't be declaring it to the Inland Revenue;)

[morrocan roll]

Originally posted by Kermit
Yup.

And I wouldn't be declaring it to the Inland Revenue;) bong!

[Kermit]

:lol:

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by bongbudda
Do you want to explain to me why I should pay for someone to sit on their arse and get benefit even though I KNOW they are not disabled?

Hardly makes any difference to you does it?

"Oh no, someone's getting more than me! Mum, it's not fair!" :rolleyes:

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by major_tom
bollocks. why should you work your arse off so that some lazy workshy scum can fleece the system? not only does it piss off the taxpayer, it also leaves genuine claimants open to criticism. if more people did report the scammers it would discourage them from doing it in the first place. i would call that responsible citizenship too, it's not some third reich style "denounce the neighbours for ideological crimes" before anyone draws that parallel!

^
see above

[Fiend_85]

Originally posted by Blagsta
Hardly makes any difference to you does it?

"Oh no, someone's getting more than me! Mum, it's not fair!" :rolleyes:

I agree with bongbudda, I have no problems with paying for someone to live if they can't support themselves, or for their healthcare to get better, but scabs should be left to help themselves.

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by Kermit
Dobbing on benefit cheats is perfectly reasonable, and something all good citizens should do.

I would also bar those who have been caught scamming the system from ever being entitled to any benefit ever again, regardless of their circumstances.

Oh fuck off. It's fuck all in the grand scheme of things. You're aiming your anger at the wrong people again.

What was that you were saying about divide and rule earlier? :rolleyes:

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by major_tom
yeah, the trouble is the prevailing attitude in this country that screw everyone else, i'll get every penny i can. there is a very tangible anti authority attitude at the moment, and it cant just be attributed to fake burberry wearing scum.

(a) that's the bosses that want to screw everyone. Why are you siding with them
(b) everyone who wears fake burberry is scum?

cunt. :mad:

[morrocan roll]

Originally posted by Fiend_85
, but scabs should be left to help themselves. and they will ...to your belongings.
the people at the bottom have no effect on your lives whatsoever compared with the thieving bastards all the rest of the way up.

where does this what is it ...fifty quid a week go to?
it goes to tesco ...the petrol station ...the newsagents ...the bakery ...the pub landlord.
take away all sosial security benefits and many businesses would collapse.
the money is going to them.

[Kermit]

BAT and Carslberg-Tetley would go bust if it wasn't for social security;)

I suppose the DS-SS keep the economy going...

[morrocan roll]

Originally posted by Kermit
BAT and Carslberg-Tetley would go bust if it wasn't for social security;)

I you may have a point there ...carlsberg special sales would plummet ...along with cider.

[wheresmyplacebo]

the spongers keep the money circulating through public, instead of sticking in some private investors bank account doing ntohing

[morrocan roll]

Originally posted by wheresmyplacebo
the spongers keep the money circulating through public, instead of sticking in some private investors bank account doing ntohing theres a billion pounds element of truth in that ...it's just money going round and round ...it needs to keep circulating ...so a few people do it the lazy way ...whats the big deal?

[budda]

Originally posted by wheresmyplacebo
the spongers keep the money circulating through public, instead of sticking in some private investors bank account doing ntohing

Thats simple minded logic if you dont mind me saying so. Unless you just have the notes in your hand money is always doing something.

It doesnt just sit in a bank vault you know, its invested, making more money.



Onto the issue of benefit cheats. Yes I did turn someone in and I feel absolutely no guilt about it. She was stealing from ME and the rest of you.

Not only is it a waste of tax payers money but it also makes it harder for others to get the benefit they truely deserve.

Avoiding tax I see in a similar but not quite as bad light.

I notice none of you have actually answered the question I set. Why should I pay for her to sit on her arse?

Yes the 'people at the top' avoid tax, but they also create thousands of jobs, stimulate the economy and generally help this country survive. BUT, it is no better them avoid tax as it is anyone else.

[BumbleBee]

I think the number of people who resort to 'oh fuck off' and calling one another c*nts is pathetic.

[budda]

I'd agree with that BumbleBee. This is supposed to be a debate section, but it degrades into abuse far too easily.

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by BumbleBee
I think the number of people who resort to 'oh fuck off' and calling one another c*nts is pathetic.

Major Tom is a cunt though. He proves it time and time again.

The main reason I resort to swearing is that I'm sick of restating obvious points and facts over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again to the same few people.

[BumbleBee]

Originally posted by Blagsta
Major Tom is a cunt though. He proves it time and time again.

The main reason I resort to swearing is that I'm sick of restating obvious points and facts over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again to the same few people.

I don't agree with the view you have put forward in this topic. I personally believe that people who committ benefit fraud are robbing honest citizens of money, not because I want what they're getting, I earn enough, but for the simple reason that they make it harder for genuine claimants.

I am not a c*nt because I hold this view, nor is Major Tom (although he may be for other reasons, I don't know.)

[Iknowyourmum]

I suspose its wrong but Id never grass, I have known my own family taking advantage of the system and working whilst claiming benefites cause guess what thats what the system encourages you to do this actually happened to my cousion he was on the dole at the time and wanted to work he was experenced at building sirte work signed up foir his CIS card and got a job.

So on receipt of the job susposidly starting, he had to inform the DSS of the start date, but the job got put back a few weeks so he got no money for those weeks whilst his claime was processed with the usual big forms to fill in, the job lasrted for about 6 weeks after that he tried to sign on again and had to wait for the system to register him again,


So for working the right way the honest way he goes woth out money for inall 8 weeks and if he didnt have his ma and us to tap a bit of money would have been hungry and got kicked out of his flat for not paying the rent.

So if you were in that situation and you got offered another 3 week job that might get put back or finish early would you take it would you fuck. He's working permanently now but for a long time because of that he'd only do cash in hand work, can anybody say they blame him the system encourages this and leaves people traped in benefits

[Fiend_85]

Originally posted by BumbleBee
I don't agree with the view you have put forward in this topic. I personally believe that people who committ benefit fraud are robbing honest citizens of money, not because I want what they're getting, I earn enough, but for the simple reason that they make it harder for genuine claimants.

I am not a c*nt because I hold this view, nor is Major Tom (although he may be for other reasons, I don't know.)

I bow to you.

[major_tom]

ok blagsta, howsabout i come to live in your gaff in sunny brixton, you can go and work all day while i eat all your food, run up your phone bill and scrounge money to buy the daily mail every day. im actually in london next week so we could meet up and i'll get you a nice cold pint to soothe the steam coming out of your poor liberal ears.

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by major_tom
ok blagsta, howsabout i come to live in your gaff in sunny brixton, you can go and work all day while i eat all your food, run up your phone bill and scrounge money to buy the daily mail every day.

Missed the point. As fucking usual.

Originally posted by major_tom
im actually in london next week so we could meet up and i'll get you a nice cold pint to soothe the steam coming out of your poor liberal ears.

PM me and you can buy me a pint.

[morrocan roll]

how does some guy scamming sick pay make it harder for a genuine claimant to claim then?
and bong ...two crimes of robbing the state ...one benefit and one tax ...yet robbing me by robbing tax is ok ...thats bollox.
shopkeepers and brickys are not creating thoudsands of jobs.
so those creating jobs are excused their crimes aye ...thats a bit rich.
those at the very bottom of the pile ...fifty quid a week, are fair game for your spite but not those further up the ladder ...

[morrocan roll]

...and the fact that the person you grassed could end up in jail ...could end up loosing home or whatever else ...has some how made us all better off financialy?

[BumbleBee]

Originally posted by morrocan roll
how does some guy scamming sick pay make it harder for a genuine claimant to claim then?

If people do, like Lukesh suggested at the beginning of this thread, swot up on symptoms etc in order to scam the system then pretty soon GPs are going to be even more wary than they already are. Someone pretending they have a bad back (probably one of the most common scams) can easily work, so why shouldn't they? Why should I go out to work everyday, work bloody hard to have the taxman take it off me, for them to do sweet FA all day? Answer me that please.

People like Lukesh probably already eye most of the genuine claimants with suspicion due to aforementioned scammers.

[Blagsta]

No, people like lukesh do that because they believe any old crap and have no powers of critical thinking.

[BumbleBee]

Originally posted by morrocan roll
...and the fact that the person you grassed could end up in jail ...could end up loosing home or whatever else ...has some how made us all better off financialy?

Where did anyone say that? The fact of the matter is that when you commit any crime you know it is punishable by law. When you speed you know that it is illegal and you could get fined and penalty points. When you falsely claim to have an illness or incapacity that prevents you from working you know that what you are doing is illegal and so you know it is potentially punishable with a jail sentence.

If someone wants to break the law then they know fine well the potential consequences. If the person Bong 'grassed up' goes to prison then they knew the risks before they did what they did.

[Blagsta]

So all crimes are equally "bad" are they?

[Fiend_85]

Originally posted by Blagsta
So all crimes are equally "bad" are they?

Do all crimes have equal punishment?

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by Fiend_85
Do all crimes have equal punishment?

No. Now let bumblebee answer my question.

[morrocan roll]

Originally posted by BumbleBee
Where did anyone say that? The fact of the matter is that when you commit any crime you know it is punishable by law. When you speed you know that it is illegal and you could get fined and penalty points. When you falsely claim to have an illness or incapacity that prevents you from working you know that what you are doing is illegal and so you know it is potentially punishable with a jail sentence.

If someone wants to break the law then they know fine well the potential consequences. If the person Bong 'grassed up' goes to prison then they knew the risks before they did what they did. of course crime should be punished but how come bong only believes that those at the bottom should recieve such punishment?

[Fiend_85]

Originally posted by morrocan roll
of course crime should be punished but how come bong only believes that those at the bottom should recieve such punishment?

Where did he ever say that?

[morrocan roll]

Originally posted by Fiend_85
Where did he ever say that? he said he wouldn't grass someone up for not paying taxes because he has decreed that that isn't a real crime that people should be punished for ...especialy those at the top of the pile.

[Fiend_85]

Originally posted by morrocan roll
he said he wouldn't grass someone up for not paying taxes because he has decreed that that isn't a real crime that people should be punished for ...especialy those at the top of the pile.

Personally, I do think that not giving what you should is worse (somehow) that taking what isn't yours.

[BumbleBee]

Originally posted by Blagsta
So all crimes are equally "bad" are they?

No, which is why I didn't use an example such as murder. Next pointless question.

When you commit a crime you know the potential punishment.

[morrocan roll]

Originally posted by BumbleBee
No, which is why I didn't use an example such as murder. Next pointless question.

When you commit a crime you know the potential punishment. but according to the gospel of bong ...there shouldn't be any punishment for tax dodgers but there shoiuld be for false social insecurity claims!
he has stated that he has grassed one up with no shame but wouldn't grass the other up.
so he's deciding in his own little backyard that those at the bottom are deserving of whatever they get ...but those further up not.

[Fiend_85]

Originally posted by morrocan roll
but according to the gospel of bong ...there shouldn't be any punishment for tax dodgers but there shoiuld be for false social insecurity claims!

Ok, I must insist on a quote explicitly saying that now.

[morrocan roll]

Originally posted by Fiend_85
Ok, I must insist on a quote explicitly saying that now. it's in this thread and i'm buggered if i'm going through this lot again.
remember i had a go at him for grassing someone for benefiyt fraud ...it went on from there.

[Fiend_85]

Originally posted by morrocan roll
it's in this thread and i'm buggered if i'm going through this lot again.
remember i had a go at him for grassing someone for benefiyt fraud ...it went on from there.

Nothing personal rolly, but if you're going to say something like that you need to back it up.

[morrocan roll]

Originally posted by Fiend_85
Nothing personal rolly, but if you're going to say something like that you need to back it up. well i can't be arsed.
YOU should have been following the thread!

[Fiend_85]

Originally posted by morrocan roll
well i can't be arsed.
YOU should have been following the thread!

Dude, you know the deal, your point, your backup.

[morrocan roll]

Originally posted by Fiend_85
Dude, you know the deal, your point, your backup. page ten .....


Onto the issue of benefit cheats. Yes I did turn someone in and I feel absolutely no guilt about it. She was stealing from ME and the rest of you.

Not only is it a waste of tax payers money but it also makes it harder for others to get the benefit they truely deserve.

Avoiding tax I see in a similar but not quite as bad light.

I notice none of you have actually answered the question I set. Why should I pay for her to sit on her arse?

Yes the 'people at the top' avoid tax, but they also create thousands of jobs, stimulate the economy and generally help this country survive. BUT, it is no better them avoid tax as it is anyone else.

[Fiend_85]

So considering I'm actually only up to page 7....


At any rate, at no point did he say they shouldn't be punished.

[morrocan roll]

Originally posted by Fiend_85
So considering I'm actually only up to page 7....


At any rate, at no point did he say they shouldn't be punished. Avoiding tax I see in a similar but not quite as bad light.


Yes the 'people at the top' avoid tax, but they also create thousands of jobs, stimulate the economy and generally help this country survive.
-----------------------------------------0---------------------------------------

thats good enough for me.

[BumbleBee]

Originally posted by morrocan roll
but according to the gospel of bong ...there shouldn't be any punishment for tax dodgers but there shoiuld be for false social insecurity claims!
he has stated that he has grassed one up with no shame but wouldn't grass the other up.
so he's deciding in his own little backyard that those at the bottom are deserving of whatever they get ...but those further up not.

Why don't you carry on that debate with him then, since I didn't say anything of the sort.

[BumbleBee]

Originally posted by morrocan roll
Avoiding tax I see in a similar but not quite as bad light.


Yes the 'people at the top' avoid tax, but they also create thousands of jobs, stimulate the economy and generally help this country survive.
-----------------------------------------0---------------------------------------

thats good enough for me.

In fairness then you are seeing something that quite clearly isn't there. He did not say that they should go unpunished, and actually admitted that tax avoidance is bad but to a lesser degree.

[Fiend_85]

Originally posted by BumbleBee
In fairness then you are seeing something that quite clearly isn't there. He did not say that they should go unpunished, and actually admitted that tax avoidance is bad but to a lesser degree.

I bow in agreement

[morrocan roll]

'and all he believes are his eyes ...

and his eyes they just tell him lies ...'bob dylan.

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by BumbleBee
No, which is why I didn't use an example such as murder. Next pointless question.

When you commit a crime you know the potential punishment.

No, not a pointless question at all.
What I'm getting at is - are actions necessarily "bad" by the very fact of being illegal?

[budda]

Rolly; Are you reading what I'm reading?

You are grossly exagerating my points here to the point of bad parody.

Yes, I did 'grass someone up' as you so nicely put it. Again I ask why should I pay for her to sit on her arse when I know she is NOT disabled?

And no, I never said tax cheats should go unpunished, where did I say that?

I said that avoiding tax was bad, but not as bad as claiming benefits that arent yours. The amount of money involved doesnt really effect the morality of the situation.

Turning someone in is something that I would really never thought I would have done, but in this one case the girl is really taking the piss with it. She's on IB, yet she's going on holiday to be the carer of someone else!

[hobbs]

Originally posted by morrocan roll
'and all he believes are his eyes ...

and his eyes they just tell him lies ...'bob dylan.

what about the rest of the song?

first line from memory

man thinks that he rules the world, and he can do with it as he please

and the bit that comes before the line you quote

he's hell-bent for destruction, he's afraid and confused, and his brain has been mismanaged with great skill.


says a lot about some of the crap I read on here (in general, not just this thread) i think

anyway now this song is in my head!

[morrocan roll]

Originally posted by bongbudda
Turning someone in is something that I would really never thought I would have done, but in this one case the girl is really taking the piss with it. She's on IB, yet she's going on holiday to be the carer of someone else! but bong ...if we turn ever single one of them in ...we are going to see no difference whatsoever in the quality of our lives. not one iota of a difference.
what about students who stay in bed all day and cheat ...what about those with inherited wealth who have never lifted a finger ...what about the thousands of other ways criminal or not that sees people sitting on their arses all day while you have to work?
i just don't see what YOU get out of sticking your nose into someon elses financial dealings .

[morrocan roll]

Originally posted by hobbs

anyway now this song is in my head! cracking song though innit!

[budda]

So if all the fraud that happens within the benefits system, if that was stopped the government would have no more money?

You seem to muddy the issue Rolly, it comes down to this one example, why should I pay for her to sit on her arse?

Its not someone elses financial dealings is it though, not really. Its the governments money she is defrauding, therefore its all us tax payers money she is stealing.

If she wanted to waste HER money then thats fine by me, she could burn it for all I care, but its not HER money is it.

[budda]

If people defrauding the system makes no difference why dont we all go on it?

I'm sure most of us could do with an extra £40 a week.

[Fiend_85]

Originally posted by bongbudda
If people defrauding the system makes no difference why dont we all go on it?

I'm sure most of us could do with an extra £40 a week.

I bow to you sir.

[Iknowyourmum]

I refer you to my post on this some time ago can anybody answer the question of what youd do in this situation

I suspose its wrong but Id never grass, I have known my own family taking advantage of the system and working whilst claiming benefites cause guess what thats what the system encourages you to do this actually happened to my cousion he was on the dole at the time and wanted to work he was experenced at building sirte work signed up foir his CIS card and got a job.

So on receipt of the job susposidly starting, he had to inform the DSS of the start date, but the job got put back a few weeks so he got no money for those weeks whilst his claime was processed with the usual big forms to fill in, the job lasrted for about 6 weeks after that he tried to sign on again and had to wait for the system to register him again,


So for working the right way the honest way he goes woth out money for inall 8 weeks and if he didnt have his ma and us to tap a bit of money would have been hungry and got kicked out of his flat for not paying the rent.

So if you were in that situation and you got offered another 3 week job that might get put back or finish early would you take it would you fuck. He's working permanently now but for a long time because of that he'd only do cash in hand work, can anybody say they blame him the system encourages this and leaves people traped in benefits

[stargalaxy]

Originally posted by lukesh
http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2004481116,00.html

Couldn't you have obtained this story from a newspaper instead?

[MrG]

Originally posted by lukesh
http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2004481116,00.html

Blair knows he needs money to sort out the pension, therefore he also knows that over half who are on incapacity benefits are on for depression back pain etc (The ones I have already mentioned to you guys and you do not believe me), so he will kick these off as he knwos they are capable of working.

Sound idea Blair - if only you didn't let it get like this in the first place.

erm thats the first post in this thread you twit

[Iknowyourmum]

Originally posted by stargalaxy
Couldn't you have obtained this story from a newspaper instead?

I read that ignorant ****s, if they had any dealings with the system theyd know the problems faced, usualy if you work your worst off especialy if its part time work, the benefit should be graded so that for every £3 you earn you lose £1, that was a lot more people in work, even if its part time it gets them into the habit.

also the problem I highlighted, shorly theres got to be a quicker way to get people on and off benefits for short periods.

[budda]

I know the benefits system encourages cheating, its not as effective as it could be, it doesnt work perfectly.

And, given the measley amount of money it is its not hugely surprising people try and cheat.

BUT, that doesnt make it right. Its a safety net and shouldnt really be much more.

And, this is really only a one off, this girl is just out of order with it.

I dont go around snooping trying to catch people.

[Kermit]

Originally posted by morrocan roll
but according to the gospel of bong ...there shouldn't be any punishment for tax dodgers but there shoiuld be for false social insecurity claims!

Way to miss the damn point.

If I don't pay tax are YOU losing something you already had.
If I don't pay tax is the state losing something it already had.

Benefit fraud is theft- you are stealing taxpayers' money. MY money, your money, his money.

Tax evasion is not theft- you are not stealing anything, you are not stealing my money, your money, hios money. You are just neglecting to hand over something which a government arbritrarily decides it is entitled to. It is not theft.

My problem with benefit fraud is not that I'm at work and they aren't- I've just come off JSA, ffs. People hit hard times, that's what JSA is there for. My problem with benefit fraud is that they are stealing from me- I have paid tax for honest claimants, not for the fraudulent.

Now if someone doesn't pay tax I have to pay more (possibly; I wouldn't be holding my breath for a tax cut if Murdsoch got pinned down and made to pay) but they are not stealing from me. They are not living off my labour without any good reason.

As bong said, if benefit fraud is acceptable shall we all go and do it? Shall we just pay out money after money. After all, benefit fraud is victimless, isn't it?

[stargalaxy]

Originally posted by Kermit
Tax evasion is not theft- you are not stealing anything, you are not stealing my money, your money, hios money. You are just neglecting to hand over something which a government arbritrarily decides it is entitled to. It is not theft.

Makes sense.

[morrocan roll]

iknowyourmum ...i know familys who have had to do what your talking about ...i don't see any big deal in with in the grand scheme of things.
there are many familys who earn or have someone in the family earning a few quid on the quiet to help ends meet ...or just to get by ...or even dare i say to be able to afford little luxuries or holidays ...i realy see no problem with it.
people have beoken laws and bent the rules since the year dot.
those at the top are the ones who take big big money out of the system ...money that could go to all kinds of essential stuff ...nhs etc.
but that seems to mostly be ok.
it realy pisses me off when the little people who cheat are the ones who get all the stick.
if you should ever end up in jail ...not surprisingly you'll find that 99% of them are from the bottom of the pile in this world.
the real crooks are all wearing suits driving nice cars and live in nice houses. should any of these kinds of people actualy end up in court ...oh how differently they are treated!

[budda]

Did you actually want to address any of the issues and points put to you Rolly or did you just want to natter on about the 'fat cats' in their nice cars?

[morrocan roll]

Originally posted by bongbudda
Did you actually want to address any of the issues and points put to you Rolly or did you just want to natter on about the 'fat cats' in their nice cars? i think i've adressed everything i can.
not paying tax is fraud and deception. very serious offences.

[Kermit]

Originally posted by morrocan roll
not paying tax is fraud and deception. very serious offences.

Sometimes it is.

Avoiding tax is not illegal at all, evading it is.

Taking something you are not entitled to is wrong. It's a very simple concept. If you take benefits and you are not entitled to them, you should lose that entitlement.

[Iknowyourmum]

Originally posted by bongbudda
Did you actually want to address any of the issues and points put to you Rolly or did you just want to natter on about the 'fat cats' in their nice cars?

How would you like to address my cousions issue, if you were in his situation and got offered a job that was shedualed to start in 2 weeks but you were told it might get put back, what would you do take it and go hungry get evicted or take it cash in hand, or stay on the dole and not do any work.

[Kermit]

Any system has kinks in it.

But I seriously doubt he would be "evicted" if he was claiming housing benefit. There are systems in place to protect those who take short-term work.

You don't say how long ago this was. But I'm looking at my JSA form now, and if you are expecting to only be in short-term work you tell them.

As for the "benefit is better" argument: WFTC.

[morrocan roll]

i think i have said all i can in this thread. to all the two faced mean and selfish bastards who have contributed ...i hope you find yourself breaking the law ...and some busy body dobs you in.

[budda]

Originally posted by Iknowyourmum
How would you like to address my cousions issue, if you were in his situation and got offered a job that was shedualed to start in 2 weeks but you were told it might get put back, what would you do take it and go hungry get evicted or take it cash in hand, or stay on the dole and not do any work.

I've said that the system isnt perfect, it certainly needs reform. I'm not sure what I would do in that example.

This woman however, is not in the morally dubious situation you describe, she lives at home with her mum, is perfectly well off, just doesnt want to work.

[Kermit]

Originally posted by morrocan roll
to all the two faced mean and selfish bastards who have contributed

*yawn*

Mean and selfish? If by "mean and selfish" you mean "not wanting to piss my money away on people who are bent and can't be arsed pulling their weight" then damn right, I am mean and selfish.

People should be protected, the bent should not.

[morrocan roll]

Originally posted by Iknowyourmum
or stay on the dole and not do any work. you can actualy do both.
i know an odd job guy who signs on and declares to the dole man how much he has earned ...this is deducted from whatever he gets.
i.m not sure but i don't think he declares any more than about twenty quid a week ...this way he gets some benefits and pays no tax ...he's probably worth about two hundred quid a week all in all.
not bad realy for a guy who can barely string two sentances together.

[Kermit]

Originally posted by morrocan roll
you can actualy do both.

Exactly.

It's what we had to do- t'missus' earnings came out of what we, as a couple, were entitled to.

And that's why I get so pissed off at people who cheat the system. Thieving scum.

[budda]

Originally posted by morrocan roll
i think i have said all i can in this thread. to all the two faced mean and selfish bastards who have contributed ...i hope you find yourself breaking the law ...and some busy body dobs you in.

I maybe mean and selfish, but I think I have been far from two faced in this thread.

[Iknowyourmum]

Originally posted by bongbudda
I've said that the system isnt perfect, it certainly needs reform. I'm not sure what I would do in that example.

This woman however, is not in the morally dubious situation you describe, she lives at home with her mum, is perfectly well off, just doesnt want to work.

Yes but I wasnt adressing this problem, I was adressing one that effects lots of people and not just a few scroungers.

And he would have got kicked out because of rent areas, This was about a year ago

[Kermit]

Originally posted by Iknowyourmum
Yes but I wasnt adressing this problem, I was adressing one that effects lots of people and not just a few scroungers.

And he would have got kicked out because of rent areas, This was about a year ago

The system is now that you can say if you're only going into short-term employment.

It says so on my signing-off form.

Obviously he didn't apply for/qualiofy for housing benefit, which goes on income alone.

[Iknowyourmum]

Yes but the whols point is that if the situation changes and your not working on the dates you said, or youget laid off before, then you still have to wait for the system to process your form before you get money.

[Kermit]

Originally posted by Iknowyourmum
Yes but the whols point is that if the situation changes and your not working on the dates you said, or youget laid off before, then you still have to wait for the system to process your form before you get money.

That's true enough, and that is a huge problem.

I was waiting 14 fucking weeks for my money to come through, thank God we had kind parents.

That's the trouble with any system though. It makes it very hard to get people onto short-term or seasonal work, which is a shame as Christmas is here now and that should make it easy to get a job.

Hell, even I managed :lol:

[Iknowyourmum]

Originally posted by Kermit
That's true enough, and that is a huge problem.

I was waiting 14 fucking weeks for my money to come through, thank God we had kind parents.

That's the trouble with any system though. It makes it very hard to get people onto short-term or seasonal work, which is a shame as Christmas is here now and that should make it easy to get a job.

Hell, even I managed :lol:

OK so 14 weeks with out money, Imagin you have no parents who would help and if that happens again, you have a choice cash in hand, no job or starve for 14 weeks.

Not much of a choice realy is it.

[Kermit]

Originally posted by Iknowyourmum
OK so 14 weeks with out money, Imagin you have no parents who would help and if that happens again, you have a choice cash in hand, no job or starve for 14 weeks.

Cash in hand without a job?

If they don't declare what they've earned they are wrong, not before.

[Fiend_85]

You carry a lot of respect on these boards, but you are consistantly and obstructivly missing the point. You've totally failed to answer the key question over and over again.

Why should we pay, for someone else to sit on their arse?

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by Fiend_85


Why should we pay, for someone else to sit on their arse?

What, like the Queen you mean?

[Fiend_85]

Originally posted by Blagsta
What, like the Queen you mean?

The queen, it can be safely said, contributes to society. Whether you think she should get as much as she does is another discussion.

Your avoidance of the question has been noted.

[Blagsta]

No she doesn't, she's a fucking parasite.

[Fiend_85]

Originally posted by Blagsta
No she doesn't, she's a fucking parasite.

Once again, your avoidance of the question has been noted.

[BumbleBee]

Originally posted by Blagsta
No she doesn't, she's a fucking parasite.

Wow, way to avoid the question. The Queen contribues to society and the general income of the nation. Whether that is right or wrong is not the issue being discussed, just incase you hadn't noticed.

[MrG]

thnk of all the money the american and japanese tourists alone spend in our economy

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by Fiend_85
Once again, your avoidance of the question has been noted.

I'm making a serious point - why are you happy for the Royal Family to sponge off society, why are you happy for big businesses to avoid paying millions in tax, why are you happy for businesses to skim millions out of the public purse in PFI (while politicians are in their pockets), why are you happy for fat cat bosses to award themselves massive bonuses running companies that formerly belonged to all of us, while putting up the price of electric, gas, water, transport etc year on year. Why are you happy for politicians to vote themselves pension increases and pay increases yet claim that there is not enough in the public purse for our pensions, why are you happy for the government to spend millions bombing the shit out of poor people in Iraq yet not pay firefighters, nurses and teachers a proper wage? Why is all that OK, yet some poor fucker at the bottom of the pile incurs all your wrath?

Talk about divide and rule and misplaced loyalties.

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by MrG
thnk of all the money the american and japanese tourists alone spend in our economy

Eh? :confused:

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by BumbleBee
The Queen contribues to society and the general income of the nation.

No she doesn't.

[morrocan roll]

Originally posted by Fiend_85
Why should we pay, for someone else to sit on their arse? i am not saying it is right.
i'm wondering why sucjh trivial things bother people.
laziness and scheming and scamming are as old as the hills.
there are people around here who make a carear of it ...big deal. it doesn't effect my life. it happens.
if the guy next door gets by on his arse and i get by digging holes ...so what?
in the farming comunities around here there are countless scams going on ...the poor and the well heeled are at it.
what pisses me off more than anything is that the ones at the bottom of the pile ...scaming the leastest always seem to fair game for a moral kicking.
if they found a way of stopping all cheating i'm pretty sure our lives would not change one jot.
as for dobbing people in ...i find it to be a case of ...'remove the fucking plank from your own eye before you remove the splinter from someone elses.'

[Kermit]

Originally posted by Blagsta
No she doesn't, she's a fucking parasite.

*yawn*

[Kermit]

Blagsta, we aren't talking about PFI or about fat cat politicians.

We're talking about benefit cheats.

Just because other people are thieving cunts too doesn't change the fact that benefit cheats are thieving cunts too.

Just because they are poor doesn't justify the theft that they commit.

As a general rule I don't blame the people who do it, but again that's not the issue. The system shouldn't let them do it, and the system should severely punish those who do.

[morrocan roll]

Originally posted by Kermit
and the system should severely punish those who do. it does.

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by Kermit
*yawn*

You tired? Bless.

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by Kermit
Blagsta, we aren't talking about PFI or about fat cat politicians.

We're talking about benefit cheats.

Just because other people are thieving cunts too doesn't change the fact that benefit cheats are thieving cunts too.

Just because they are poor doesn't justify the theft that they commit.

As a general rule I don't blame the people who do it, but again that's not the issue. The system shouldn't let them do it, and the system should severely punish those who do.

But it's always the poor who get most anger aimed at them, when they're least culpable for the fucking mess we're in.

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by morrocan roll
i am not saying it is right.
i'm wondering why sucjh trivial things bother people.
laziness and scheming and scamming are as old as the hills.
there are people around here who make a carear of it ...big deal. it doesn't effect my life. it happens.
if the guy next door gets by on his arse and i get by digging holes ...so what?
in the farming comunities around here there are countless scams going on ...the poor and the well heeled are at it.
what pisses me off more than anything is that the ones at the bottom of the pile ...scaming the leastest always seem to fair game for a moral kicking.
if they found a way of stopping all cheating i'm pretty sure our lives would not change one jot.
as for dobbing people in ...i find it to be a case of ...'remove the fucking plank from your own eye before you remove the splinter from someone elses.'

innit

[Kermit]

Originally posted by Blagsta
But it's always the poor who get most anger aimed at them, when they're least culpable for the fucking mess we're in.

And I've said before that that is rather stupid really.

But it doesn't mean that they aren't deserving of anger.

[morrocan roll]

Originally posted by Blagsta
innit divide and rule ...scroungers ...immigrants ...the unemployed ...hippies ...muslims ...takes your mind off who's realy having you over.

[Fiend_85]

Originally posted by Blagsta
I'm making a serious point .

No you're not, you're deliberatly deflecting the arguement.

[slade]

Hi, I'm new round here and took a particular interest in this thread as my dad is on IB

i'm a bit appalled that any young person would admit to 'grassing' on someone they thought was a fraud

Seems that neo-con attitude has trickled down to the young. Maybe some hard-pressed low income taxpayer might be more tempted but would hopefully resist that temptation

Let the State enforce its own rules, it made them!

[Fiend_85]

Originally posted by slade
Hi, I'm new round here and took a particular interest in this thread as my dad is on IB

i'm a bit appalled that any young person would admit to 'grassing' on someone they thought was a fraud

Seems that neo-con attitude has trickled down to the young. Maybe some hard-pressed low income taxpayer might be more tempted but would hopefully resist that temptation

Let the State enforce its own rules, it made them!

Or that perhaps that it's fucking cheeky to expect something for nothing? I'd grass on them, and you'd be making a mistake to call me neo-con.

[morrocan roll]

Originally posted by slade
Hi, I'm new round here and took a particular interest in this thread as my dad is on IB

i'm a bit appalled that any young person would admit to 'grassing' on someone they thought was a fraud

Seems that neo-con attitude has trickled down to the young. Maybe some hard-pressed low income taxpayer might be more tempted but would hopefully resist that temptation

Let the State enforce its own rules, it made them! welcome to the assylum.
by the way i'm the sensible one round these parts.

[slade]

Or that perhaps that it's fucking cheeky to expect something for nothing?

it's not cheeky it's normal to get a lot for nothing right now

School-leavers get £30 odd for just staying on post 16

Why the big anger over something that doesn't affect you?

[Kermit]

Originally posted by slade
i'm a bit appalled that any young person would admit to 'grassing' on someone they thought was a fraud

Seems that neo-con attitude has trickled down to the young. Maybe some hard-pressed low income taxpayer might be more tempted but would hopefully resist that temptation

Grassing on someone ripping them off? Definitely.

:cool:

[Kermit]

Originally posted by slade
it's not cheeky it's normal to get a lot for nothing right now

School-leavers get £30 odd for just staying on post 16

Why the big anger over something that doesn't affect you?

School leavers get it in an attempt to get poor children to stay in education, rather than go straight out to work in an attempt to get some money in the household.

As taxpayers, it does affect us. It's quite simple- it's not "The State"'s money, it's ours.

[Fiend_85]

Originally posted by slade
it's not cheeky it's normal to get a lot for nothing right now

School-leavers get £30 odd for just staying on post 16

Why the big anger over something that doesn't affect you?

It does affect me though, they're taking MY tax that should be going to helping someone get and education. One they wouldn't be able to afford otherwise.

[morrocan roll]

Originally posted by slade
it's not cheeky it's normal to get a lot for nothing right now

School-leavers get £30 odd for just staying on post 16

Why the big anger over something that doesn't affect you? believe me ...theres loads of people getting something for nothing ...this lot have a bee in their bonnets about the poorer members of society getting something for nowt but not the better off.

[slade]

School leavers get it in an attempt to get poor children to stay in education,

financially poor, doubt it. More likely educationally poor- to keep them off the dole figs

Which takes us back to IB and why both Tories + NuLaab have allowed it to grow

Our money-don't sound so grand, how much tax do you pay anyway?

[Fiend_85]

Originally posted by morrocan roll
believe me ...theres loads of people getting something for nothing ...this lot have a bee in their bonnets about the poorer members of society getting something for nowt but not the better off.

Never thought I'd say this to you buddy but STFU.

[morrocan roll]

Originally posted by Fiend_85
It does affect me though, they're taking MY tax that should be going to helping someone get and education. One they wouldn't be able to afford otherwise. back to all this bollox again!
there are people who shove their money in offshore bank accounts to avoid paying toward you ...is the isle of man a foriegn country then?
no it's a fucking cheeky con ...a big fucking con ...but thats ok innit ...

[Kermit]

Originally posted by morrocan roll
believe me ...theres loads of people getting something for nothing ...this lot have a bee in their bonnets about the poorer members of society getting something for nowt but not the better off.

Did you miss the bit where I said that we aren't talking about the rich so it is irrelevant?

I have a bee in my bonnet about anyone claiming something to which they are not entitled.

Just because X claimed more doesn't mean that it's OK for Y to help himself.

[morrocan roll]

Originally posted by Kermit
Did you miss the bit where I said that we aren't talking about the rich so it is irrelevant?

I have a bee in my bonnet about anyone claiming something to which they are not entitled.

Just because X claimed more doesn't mean that it's OK for Y to help himself. i've already said it aint ok ...it happens ...it alway will but to start grassing people up is fucking outragous!

[Kermit]

I'm trying to work out if slade is an alter ego of freethepeeps, or if this place is just getting overrun with morons who don't grasp the point.

[Fiend_85]

Or that because X didn't pay what they should means that Y should get anything for free.

[Kermit]

Originally posted by morrocan roll
i've already said it aint ok ...it happens ...it alway will but to start grassing people up is fucking outragous!

So I presume if you uncovered a "rich man" who was on the diddle, you'd keep schtum?

No, didn't think so.

[morrocan roll]

your all getting robbed left and centre yet get so worked up about the tiny bits ...
one day ...i can assure you most of you will take something for nothing and most of you will break laws as you travel this life.

[slade]

Kermit
or if this place is just getting overrun with morons who don't grasp the point

What point?

Talk about old heads on young shoulders

tax-grumblers who pay no tax and State grasses

No hope in this NuLab world

[Kermit]

Originally posted by morrocan roll
there are people who shove their money in offshore bank accounts to avoid paying toward you

To be brutally honest, legally avoding tax is perfectly acceptable. It'd be better if they "paid their way", but the fact that they don't is neither hither nor thither.

Unless you think Blair and Brown will be giving us a tax rebate if all the rich people pay loads in.

I don't have a problem with people who are working forgetting to declare all their earnings- cabbies, plumbers, whoever, I think they bloody do right.

What i do have a problem with is people sticking their hand in the till, and taking out that which is not theirs. If you are working it's fine to forget to declare earnings; if you're on benefits it's not.

[morrocan roll]

Originally posted by Kermit
So I presume if you uncovered a "rich man" who was on the diddle, you'd keep schtum?

No, didn't think so. check back through the thread ...i've already said theres plenty of the well healed on all sorts of fiddles in this farming comunity ...not my business to stick my nose in.
this attitude of grassing up a few dolies ...is a symptom of the nanny state i think.
if you need a plummer and he offers to do the job for cash at a third of the price ...i hope your morals tell him to fuck off.

[Fiend_85]

Originally posted by slade
Kermit


What point?

Talk about old heads on young shoulders

tax-grumblers who pay no tax and State grasses

No hope in this NuLab world

You don't know anything about anyone who posts here.

[Kermit]

Originally posted by Fiend_85
You don't know anything about anyone who posts here.

Exactly.

And excuse me whilst I don't start stating all my financial affairs on a public message board...

[morrocan roll]

Originally posted by Kermit
To be brutally honest, legally avoding tax is perfectly acceptable. It'd be better if they "paid their way", but the fact that they don't is neither hither nor thither.

Unless you think Blair and Brown will be giving us a tax rebate if all the rich people pay loads in.

I don't have a problem with people who are working forgetting to declare all their earnings- cabbies, plumbers, whoever, I think they bloody do right.

What i do have a problem with is people sticking their hand in the till, and taking out that which is not theirs. If you are working it's fine to forget to declare earnings; if you're on benefits it's not. fiend wont be happy ...she hates people not paying what they should toward her education and stuff.

[Fiend_85]

Originally posted by morrocan roll
fiend wont be happy ...she hates people not paying what they should toward her education and stuff.

Shut up. Really rolly, you're embarrassing yourself.

[slade]

This board prolly comprises young ppl who've paid FA in tax so the tax-grumbling doesn't ring true

[Kermit]

What the fuck are you talking about petal?

[Fiend_85]

Originally posted by slade
This board prolly comprises young ppl who've paid FA in tax so the tax-grumbling doesn't ring true

Point made

[morrocan roll]

Originally posted by Fiend_85
Shut up. Really rolly, you're embarrassing yourself. this is what you said ...
----o------------
It does affect me though, they're taking MY tax that should be going to helping someone get and education. One they wouldn't be able to afford otherwise.

--------------0----------------
haven't seen you complaining in the mp's expenses thread about dodgy mortgages and stuff by the good and great.
hypocrisy.

[Fiend_85]

I haven't posted in that thread at all yet... How is it hypocrisy?

[morrocan roll]

Originally posted by Fiend_85
I haven't posted in that thread at all yet... How is it hypocrisy? few have ...cos when it's the rich and powerful who rob you ...no ones realy that interested.
they don't even loose their jobs or their pay and certainly don't go to jail for it.
even when they have you and me paying for dodgy mortgages.

[Fiend_85]

That's ridiculous, some threads just never get going. And few stay on the point for more than a page.

[morrocan roll]

Originally posted by Fiend_85
That's ridiculous, some threads just never get going. And few stay on the point for more than a page. that'll be those that hold little interest for people then.

[Fiend_85]

Originally posted by morrocan roll
that'll be those that hold little interest for people then.

Well I'd say that the american elections are fiercely debated in these parts, yet the florida ballots thread droped with less than a page...

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by Fiend_85
No you're not, you're deliberatly deflecting the arguement.

Errrr...no.

[morrocan roll]

Originally posted by Fiend_85
Well I'd say that the american elections are fiercely debated in these parts, yet the florida ballots thread droped with less than a page... cos it was already being fiercly debated over and over again.
the point is ...if the poor pinch some money the thread goes on and on ...when the respectable well healed do it it doesn't raise much interest.
your angry to the point off grassing up a fake sicko for his fifty quid ...possible sending him to jail ...but an mp buys a big dishonest house ...with your money and he doesnt even get told off.
hypocrisy.

[Fiend_85]

Where's this big dishonest house?

[Kermit]

MPs caught fiddling their expenses should be jailed.

As should all public employees.

There, said it.

[Kermit]

I think he's referring to Peter Mandelson and his rent boy lover.

[Fiend_85]

Originally posted by Kermit
I think he's referring to Peter Mandelson and his rent boy lover.

Oh right, havn't heard about that, what's the deeli?

[budda]

Originally posted by slade
Hi, I'm new round here and took a particular interest in this thread as my dad is on IB

i'm a bit appalled that any young person would admit to 'grassing' on someone they thought was a fraud

Seems that neo-con attitude has trickled down to the young. Maybe some hard-pressed low income taxpayer might be more tempted but would hopefully resist that temptation

Let the State enforce its own rules, it made them!

I'm sorry, but arent you assuming more than a few things there.

You know nothing about my age, sex, financial status or most importantly how much I knew about the woman I 'grassed' on.

I KNEW she was cheating, I have seen her, I KNOW her. It was fact! 100% certain she was cheating.

Whether rich people pay lots or even NO tax really doesnt effect in anyway what so ever whether or not this woman was cheating.

If there are to be no checks on who goes on IB what is the point in it?

[slade]

If there are to be no checks on who goes on IB what is the point in it?

What's yr motivation to be a self-appointed policeman for the state?

i'm aware of a lot of ppl who abuse various benefits including IB, some are mates some not

I don't grass as the thought of a jobsworth fraud investigator getting a notch on his bed-post is worse than the fraud

Same with most drug use

ppl in glass houses...........:rolleyes:

[budda]

Originally posted by slade
What's yr motivation to be a self-appointed policeman for the state?

i'm aware of a lot of ppl who abuse various benefits including IB, some are mates some not

I don't grass as the thought of a jobsworth fraud investigator getting a notch on his bed-post is worse than the fraud

Same with most drug use

ppl in glass houses...........:rolleyes:

What has drug use got to do with it in ANY way?

So if its fine for people to cheat, would it be completely fine for me to go on it? Even though I'm not disabled.

[slade]

What has drug use got to do with it in ANY way?

Do you approve on grassing of drug-consuming law-breakers?

i don't say the abuse of benefits is fine it's the Orwellian attitude in the young that's woorying

[BeckyBoo]

Originally posted by bongbudda


So if its fine for people to cheat, would it be completely fine for me to go on it? Even though I'm not disabled.

you dont need to be disabled to go on IB. You could have epilepsy, arthritis, depression etc etc............you dont have to be classed as disabled.