If found guilty, should Saddam get the death penalty?

[Aladdin]

I'm fiercely opposed to the death penalty regardless of the crimes committed so I'd say no.

Let him rot in jail anyway.

[ShyBoy]

The interim government that took over from the coalition have restored the death penalty in Iraq anyway, after it was stopped by coalition administrative people :confused:

[Man Of Kent]

Gag of the day:

Good news: Hussein to get death penalty.
Bad news: Beckham to take it.

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Man Of Kent
Gag of the day:

Good news: Hussein to get death penalty.
Bad news: Beckham to take it. Got that out of The Sun?



He deserves the death penalty but it must be painful. He deserves a long painful death. So maybe not straight away. Yesterday on ITN News I saw Iraqis in this country. They were so over joyed that the fact Saddam is now in court and will be put into justice. They all said they wanted the death penalty. They described what he did to his family. I was about to cry. All his family was dead. It was shocking.

So hang the git!

[Man Of Kent]

Originally posted by lukesh
Got that out of The Sun?

Nope. Did they suggest that it was an original "it was The Sun wot told it" gag then?

He deserves the death penalty but it must be painful. He deserves a long painful death. So maybe not straight away. Yesterday on ITN News I saw Iraqis in this country. They were so over joyed that the fact Saddam is now in court and will be put into justice. They all said they wanted the death penalty. They described what he did to his family. I was about to cry. All his family was dead. It was shocking.

So hang the git!

It is for the people of Iraq, those who live in Iraq to decide. No-one else.

TBH He's lucky that he didn't just get a double-tap when he was found

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Man Of Kent
Nope. Did they suggest that it was an original "it was The Sun wot told it" gag then?



It is for the people of Iraq, those who live in Iraq to decide. No-one else.

TBH He's lucky that he didn't just get a double-tap when he was found I think the Iraqis who don't live in Iraq have as much right as them living in Iraq. As them who have fleed the country were more likely to have been affected by him.

He'll get the death penalty, good old justice.

[piccolo]

The death penalty is sick and wrong. End of.

[lukesh]

Originally posted by piccolo
The death penalty is sick and wrong. End of. What saddam did is extremely sick and wrong.

[Man Of Kent]

Originally posted by lukesh
I think the Iraqis who don't live in Iraq have as much right as them living in Iraq. As them who have fleed the country were more likely to have been affected by him.

Bollocks. Those who stayed were subjected to his regimes oppression of them. Those who fled got to live without that.

But if they want a say in what happens in the new Iraq, then they should really be part of it.

Just as I object to Brit ex-pats voting in UK elections which have little, if any, impact on them (are you reading this Mr Connery?), so I object to people enjoying the life over here dictating to those they left behind how they should run things.

He'll get the death penalty, good old justice.

It's not justice. It's politics.

[Aladdin]

Well Saddam being locked up for life would be justice. I don't see how lowering themselves to Saddam level is going to help... The moral high ground is somehow lost a bit...

[Man Of Kent]

Originally posted by lukesh
What saddam did is extremely sick and wrong.

What did he do then?

Kill people, torture them?

Hmm, I can think of another world leader who has done the same thing. Signed death warrants, led a regime which has admitted to torture. Why isn't he on trial?

Like I said. Politics.

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Man Of Kent
Bollocks. Those who stayed were subjected to his regimes oppression of them. Those who fled got to live without that.

But if they want a say in what happens in the new Iraq, then they should really be part of it.
I think many of them will later return. They DO have the right to see what happens to the person who killed their families.


Originally posted by Man Of Kent
Just as I object to Brit ex-pats voting in UK elections which have little, if any, impact on them (are you reading this Mr Connery?), so I object to people enjoying the life over here dictating to those they left behind how they should run things.



It's not justice. It's politics. saddam and how he will be sentenced is jusitice idiot!

Them who have fled, like the one I described above, he has the right to have a say on what saddam will get for killing hsi family which was around 100.

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Aladdin
Well Saddam being locked up for life would be justice. I don't see how lowering themselves to Saddam level is going to help... The moral high ground is somehow lost a bit... Whats your kind of justice though?

[Clandestine]

Sorry Lukesh but you need to actually read up on just who those exiles are. Those who left did so long before Saddam ever came to power.

The INC and the INA (represented respectively by Ahmed Chalabi and his cousin, the current PM, Allawi) have lived for the past 45 years (since the overthrow of the monarchy in the 1950's (when both were but young boys) and have lived in comfort in the US where they closely allied themselves to factions in the Pentagon and in the excutive branch to advance their own political aims for Iraq.

Allawi himself is widely known on the Arab streets (both in Iraq as well as in all surrounding Arab states) as being a darling of the CIA.

They DO NOT have democratic legitimacy in the eyes of normal indigenous Iraqis whose families werent rich enough to simply migrate out of the past 40 odd years of turbulence and Western backed repression (followed by western backed sanctions which were rigidly maintained by Washington depite awareness that they were contributing to widespread deprivation and death).

Now the exiles have returned like vultures to feed off the carcass of a once well developed nation in order to achieve their own political control (handed to them on a silver platter not by Iraqis but by Washington).

I suggest you start familiarising yourself more with political reality than what the mainstream media cares to mention.

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Man Of Kent
What did he do then?

Kill people, torture them?

Hmm, I can think of another world leader who has done the same thing. Signed death warrants, led a regime which has admitted to torture. Why isn't he on trial?

Like I said. Politics. Bush on doubt your referring too?


Will you stop acting like a supporter of saddam hussien.

hang Him, thats what Iraqis want, well do it! Simple!

He didn't just torture, he made live for Iraqis not worth living.

For example, the man on ITN news Said that saddam made him and other people drink water a pint every hour for 48 hours and he couldn't urinate.

How sick is that? You support saddam that much, you try it!

[Kermit]

Personally I would say hang him, but only if Bush Jnr and Blair join him on the gallows.

Which, of course, they won't.

You never see war criminals on the winning side. Funny that.

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Clandestine
Sorry Lukesh but you need to actually read up on just who those exiles are. Those who left did so long before Saddam ever came to power.

The INC and the INA (represented respectively by Ahmed Chalabi and his cousin, the current PM, Allawi) have lived for the past 45 years (since the overthrow of the monarchy in the 1950's (when both were but young boys) and have lived in comfort in the US where they closely allied themselves to factions in the Pentagon and in the excutive branch to advance their own political aims for Iraq.

Allawi himself is widely known on the Arab streets (both in Iraq as well as in all surrounding Arab states) as being a darling of the CIA.

They DO NOT have democratic legitimacy in the eyes of normal indigenous Iraqis whose families werent rich enough to simply migrate out of the past 40 odd years of turbulence and Western backed repression (followed by western backed sanctions which were rigidly maintained by Washington depite awareness that they were contributing to widespread deprivation and death).

Now the exiles have returned like vultures to feed off the carcass of a once well developed nation in order to achieve their own political control (handed to them on a silver platter not by Iraqis but by Washington).

I suggest you start familiarising yourself more with political reality than what the mainstream media cares to mention. what?

That man who was on the news fled Iraqi when saddam was President. I don't understand you sometimes.

[Aladdin]

Originally posted by lukesh
Bush on doubt your referring too?


Will you stop acting like a supporter of saddam hussien.

hang Him, thats what Iraqis want, well do it! Simple!

He didn't just torture, he made live for Iraqis not worth living.

For example, the man on ITN news Said that saddam made him and other people drink water a pint every hour for 48 hours and he couldn't urinate.

How sick is that? You support saddam that much, you try it! LOL. By accusing MoK of all people of being a Saddam supporter you show how clueless you can get Luke.

Care to explain to me why executing and torturing people in Iraq is unacceptable but executing and torturing people in the USA is perfectly okay?

[Kermit]

Originally posted by lukesh
Bush on doubt your referring too?

Clever boy. I notixce you don't deny it.

Random point: the USA is very high on Amnesty's list of countries that are a danger to human rights, because of high numbers of people sentenced to death. And lets not even mention Guantanamo Bay, although conveniently this isn't actually part of the USA :rolleyes:


hang Him, thats what Iraqis want, well do it! Simple!

Asked them all have you?

Will you stop acting like a supporter of saddam hussien.

:confused:

He didn't just torture, he made live for Iraqis not worth living.

For example, the man on ITN news Said that saddam made him and other people drink water a pint every hour for 48 hours and he couldn't urinate.

The USAF bombed them into the ground.

Then they arrested them, attached them to the mains, and said if you fell off a small box you would die. Or they made them perform disgusting sexual acts on each other. And then they were beaten and kicked and beaten some more, before being starved.

How sick is that? You support saddam that much, you try it!

How sick is that? You support Bush that much, you try it!

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Kermit
Personally I would say hang him, but only if Bush Jnr and Blair join him on the gallows.

Which, of course, they won't.

You never see war criminals on the winning side. Funny that. And Chinas president, and Irans... who esle, oh Zimbaweas....

I say Thank god for Bush and Blair, at last someone has stood up to this killer.

Iam proud of what Bush and Blair did, iam proud of our relationship with America!
and later years I'll be proud to say that my country helped that country get back on it's feet.

[Aladdin]

Originally posted by lukesh
Whats your kind of justice though? As I said, life sentence without parole.

Spend the rest of your life locked up in a cell.

Funny how you are such a supporter of "slow death" and "torture". And the difference between you and Saddam would be?

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Aladdin
LOL. By accusing MoK of all people of being a Saddam supporter you show how clueless you can get Luke.
Thats the impression I get, sorry but it is.


Originally posted by Aladdin

Care to explain to me why executing and torturing people in Iraq is unacceptable but executing and torturing people in the USA is perfectly okay? It is wrong on all levels, when did I say it wasn't?

[Kermit]

Originally posted by lukesh
I don't understand you sometimes.

Do some reading and you will.

That's reading, not looking at The Scum.

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Kermit
Do some reading and you will.

That's reading, not looking at The Scum. From where? the Politics book that says Conservatives are racists? Or the Guardian?

[Kermit]

Originally posted by lukesh
And Chinas president, and Irans... who esle, oh Zimbaweas....

And Pakistan. And formerly in Chile and Nicaragua.

I say Thank god for Bush and Blair, at last someone has stood up to this killer.

*yawn*
http://lambcutlet.org/images/missingthepoint.png


iam proud of our relationship with America!

One word about our "special relationship": cashmere.

[marv]

I have also thought that the death penalty is an easy way out for a person when found guilty of a crime.

As i am an atheist i dont believe in an afterlife so when someone dies they just die and they dont go to a heaven or a hell. So the death penalty gives that person an easy way out because then they dont really pay for they crime they just go into nothingness.

It's better for a person to spend 20/30 years of they life rotting in jail knowing they is no chance for freedom or parole.

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Aladdin
As I said, life sentence without parole.

Spend the rest of your life locked up in a cell.

Funny how you are such a supporter of "slow death" and "torture". And the difference between you and Saddam would be? The differnce is that I believe in justice towards who have commited crimes as horrif as that.

Give him is own medicine, or else he will be laffing.

What do you mean lcoke dup in a cell? With a TV? Or just plain bed and table and a toliet?

[Kermit]

Originally posted by lukesh
From where? the Politics book that says Conservatives are racists? Or the Guardian?

:confused:

a) Which politics book are you on about?
b) The Guardian is a widely-respected news source, as is BBC News, The Independent and, now, The Dauily Telegraph. At least read The Times if you insist on reading Murdoch-drivel.
c) I read The Independent.

[Kermit]

Originally posted by lukesh
The differnce is that I believe in justice towards who have commited crimes as horrif as that.

So Bush should be joining him on the gallows then?

No?

Hypocrite.

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Kermit
And Pakistan. And formerly in Chile and Nicaragua.

[b]

*yawn*
http://lambcutlet.org/images/missingthepoint.png


[b]

One word about our "special relationship": cashmere. Iam Proud of our very special relationship.

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Kermit
:confused:

a) Which politics book are you on about?
b) The Guardian is a widely-respected news source, as is BBC News, The Independent and, now, The Dauily Telegraph. At least read The Times if you insist on reading Murdoch-drivel.
c) I read The Independent. I do read the Time I have said many times. I have read the Telegraph, like ithat. Read the Guardian, used to read it often but it draisn me, it is excellent at writing etc but it's the same old story every day, Iraq and WMD and kill Bush.

I don't know what Political book it was, someone on this board said it said that in his Politics book.

I do NOT just read the Sun, the sun merely gets on my neresv sometimes and I can skim through it in 30 minutes and have read mostly everything.

I used to read the Independant before I left school, bit like the Guardian I say.

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Kermit
So Bush should be joining him on the gallows then?

No?

Hypocrite. No because Bush has not said to the US army to kill all them Iraqis.

[Aladdin]

You're proud of Britain being used like a cheap whore by the US?

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Aladdin
You're proud of Britain being used like a cheap whore by the US? USA is an important ally which we share so much history with. USA was once british remember in the 1700's.

I know you'd prefer Chirac using us to make a Federal europe. Lets not go there as it will go off topic.

[Man Of Kent]

Originally posted by lukesh
I think many of them will later return. They DO have the right to see what happens to the person who killed their families.

Yes, they have the right to see justice, they don't have the right to influence justice. They gave that up when they fled.

saddam and how he will be sentenced is jusitice idiot!

Not it isn't. It's political expediency.

Them who have fled, like the one I described above, he has the right to have a say on what saddam will get for killing hsi family which was around 100.

Big ol family then.

And you only have his word for it.

Bush on doubt your referring too?

Yep. So if you can see that too, why do you think that it is "justice" when Saddam faces trial, but that Bush doesn't.

Justice would have them both there.

Politics means it's only one of them.

Will you stop acting like a supporter of saddam hussien.

Grow up.

This isn't a case of one or the other. Just because I don't like Bush doesn't make me a Saddam supporter, unpatriotic or a terrorist.

It makes me someone who can see the propaganda for what it is.

Saddam had people killed and torture. So does Bush. I see the wrong in both, why can't you?

Originally posted by Kermit
You never see war criminals on the winning side. Funny that.

The other expression being that history is written by the winners.

Lukesh, do you understand what Kermit is saying here?

[Man Of Kent]

Originally posted by lukesh
Iam Proud of our very special relationship.

Another two words about it.

Steel Tariffs.

[Aladdin]

There is little consolation to having a close past and long history with the US as they use us like a paper napkin today is there?

More the shame then that the US is taking advantage of its oldest ally in such fashion.

[Kermit]

Originally posted by lukesh
USA is an important ally which we share so much history with.

And the second we disagreed with their treatment of the banana republics, they almost destroyed the Scottish cashmere industry.

There is no special relationship. It is convenient for them to have us. When we disagree with them they shaft us right up the backside.

geddit?

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Man Of Kent
Yes, they have the right to see justice, they don't have the right to influence justice. They gave that up when they fled.

What?? What do you want them to do? Talk about Asylum Seekers. YOur contridicting your self.

They fled the country because of Saddam threatening them or has killed their family or what ever else the thing does.



Originally posted by Man Of Kent


Big ol family then.

And you only have his word for it.

Yep, many Iraqis or infact Muslims have large familes. Yes I believe his word, if only it was published in the Guardian and you would believe me. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Man Of Kent

Yep. So if you can see that too, why do you think that it is "justice" when Saddam faces trial, but that Bush doesn't.

Justice would have them both there.

Politics means it's only one of them.


Grow up.

This isn't a case of one or the other. Just because I don't like Bush doesn't make me a Saddam supporter, unpatriotic or a terrorist.

It makes me someone who can see the propaganda for what it is.

Saddam had people killed and torture. So does Bush. I see the wrong in both, why can't you?
[/B][/QUOTE] When did I hear Bush saying what saddam says? Instead of targeting Bush as evil try Chinas President.


Originally posted by Man Of Kent

The other expression being that history is written by the winners.

Lukesh, do you understand what Kermit is saying here?
Not really, no. Explain.

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Man Of Kent
Another two words about it.

Steel Tariffs. you love that one. what else has america done to us? I want a very long list.

also on the steel thing, it was lifted. :)

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Kermit
And the second we disagreed with their treatment of the banana republics, they almost destroyed the Scottish cashmere industry.

There is no special relationship. It is convenient for them to have us. When we disagree with them they shaft us right up the backside.

geddit? when I say that about Europe you give me loads back.

[Aladdin]

Originally posted by lukesh
you love that one. what else has america done to us? I want a very long list.

Missile defense shield.

Nuclear missile launch codes.

Joint strike fighter.

Reciprocal extradition agreements.

British citizens being illegally imprisoned and tortured.

That long enough for you?

also on the steel thing, it was lifted. :) Yes... thanks to the EU! :lol:

They are our true friends and allies.

But as you said earlier, let's not deviate from the topic eh?

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Aladdin
Missile defense shield.

Nuclear missile launch codes.

Joint strike fighter.

Reciprocal extradition agreements.

British citizens being illegally imprisoned and tortured.

That long enough for you?

Yes... thanks to the EU! :lol:

They are our true friends and allies.

But as you said earlier, let's not deviate from the topic eh? yes, i would like to add but I won't. Lets keep to the topic. Move on.

[Man Of Kent]

Originally posted by Aladdin
Yes... thanks to the EU! :lol:

They are our true friends and allies.

Really? One word...

Beef

:p

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Man Of Kent
Really? One word...

Beef

:p Exactly, aand France didn't had 1 penny for it!

[Clandestine]

Blame the MAFF for that fiasco, not the EU. I dont blame them for banning UK beef until the government stopped offering rhetoric and provided concrete documented safegaurds against further cases of BSE.

Suck it up boys.

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Clandestine
Blame the MAFF for that fiasco, not the EU. I dont blame them for banning UK beef until the government stopped offering rhetoric and provided concrete documented safegaurds against further cases of BSE.

Suck it up boys. is this si what europe thinks of British meat then they can lost.

Many countries had out beef afer BSE was removed and they were ok with it. Why does france have to bend the rules and always get awya with it?

It's like the Europe, they are all breaking the rules, but hey who cares it's only rance and germany.

thnak god britian isn't init.

[Man Of Kent]

Originally posted by lukesh
What?? What do you want them to do? Talk about Asylum Seekers. YOur contridicting your self.

They fled the country because of Saddam threatening them or has killed their family or what ever else the thing does.

Not all fled for that reason and they now have the better life they were looking for.

If they truly want to be involved in the rebuiling of a free Iraq then they should get involved. If they want to live here then their focus should be here. Let those who have remained, those who still live there, those who were subjected to his regime until then end decide on his fate.
Yep, many Iraqis or infact Muslims have large familes. Yes I believe his word, if only it was published in the Guardian and you would believe me. :rolleyes:

You don't have a clue, do you?

I don't read the Guardian, if you had bothered to read anything I have posted since you joined you would see that I have accused it of being just as biased as The Sun or any other newspaper.

What I am doing is questioning the validity of what someone is saying. Just because the man claims that 100 people in his family were killed by Saddam's regime doesn't mean that it happened.

When did I hear Bush saying what saddam says? Instead of targeting Bush as evil try Chinas President.

Are your teenage hormones playing up today or something?

I didn't like Saddam's regime. I supported the invasion. I support him being tried by Iraqis.

But I'm not going to kid myself that the invasion, his ousting and the trial are anything other than political acts.

If the US really wanted jsutice for all the regimes which torture and kill their citizens then they wouldn't have the death penalty n their statute books and they wouldn't have state supported torture like we've seen reported from both Gitmo and Abu Grahib (sp?). We wouldn't have had them supporting the regimes in Chile and Nicaragua for example.

Thing is that they do and have always supported such regimes when it has suited them to do so.

Not really, no. Explain.

Basically it is the victors who decide what constitues a "crime" and many of the action which brought that victory would also come under the same definitions - things like the carpet bombing of Germany during WW2 are war crimes. As the Allies won there was no trial. Had we lost, Hitler would have had Churchill, Bomber Harris etc killed.

Again, it's politics not justice.

You really need to read Machiavelli's "The Prince"...

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Man Of Kent
Not all fled for that reason and they now have the better life they were looking for.

If they truly want to be involved in the rebuiling of a free Iraq then they should get involved. If they want to live here then their focus should be here. Let those who have remained, those who still live there, those who were subjected to his regime until then end decide on his fate.


Love the way you twist things to suit you.


Originally posted by Man Of Kent

You don't have a clue, do you?

I don't read the Guardian, if you had bothered to read anything I have posted since you joined you would see that I have accused it of being just as biased as The Sun or any other newspaper.

What I am doing is questioning the validity of what someone is saying. Just because the man claims that 100 people in his family were killed by Saddam's regime doesn't mean that it happened.

[B]

Are your teenage hormones playing up today or something?

I didn't like Saddam's regime. I supported the invasion. I support him being tried by Iraqis.

But I'm not going to kid myself that the invasion, his ousting and the trial are anything other than political acts.

If the US really wanted jsutice for all the regimes which torture and kill their citizens then they wouldn't have the death penalty n their statute books and they wouldn't have state supported torture like we've seen reported from both Gitmo and Abu Grahib (sp?). We wouldn't have had them supporting the regimes in Chile and Nicaragua for example.

Thing is that they do and have always supported such regimes when it has suited them to do so.



Basically it is the victors who decide what constitues a "crime" and many of the action which brought that victory would also come under the same definitions - things like the carpet bombing of Germany during WW2 are war crimes. As the Allies won there was no trial. Had we lost, Hitler would have had Churchill, Bomber Harris etc killed.

Again, it's politics not justice.

You really need to read Machiavelli's "The Prince"... All I can say to this is I support saddam to be killed for what he has done.

[Man Of Kent]

Originally posted by lukesh
Love the way you twist things to suit you.

Huh? What have I twisted?

I am arguing that those who sit in the UK in comfort should have no say over what happens in another country. What is wrong with that?

All I can say to this is I support saddam to be killed for what he has done.

As do I, but don't pretend that it is justice because it isn't.

It's retribution. It's politics.

Don't you believe that Bush has anything to answer for then? Are you saying that it's okay that he has ordered the deaths and torture to people? If so, what is it that makes it "right"?

[Man Of Kent]

Originally posted by Clandestine
Blame the MAFF for that fiasco, not the EU. I dont blame them for banning UK beef until the government stopped offering rhetoric and provided concrete documented safegaurds against further cases of BSE.

Suck it up boys.

Nicely done. Ignoring the ban which was still in place in France. Yes the EU fined them.

How much have they now paid?

Less than 1 euro, if truth be told.

Thing is, and the point I was trying to make, all relationships have their ups and downs. Just because the US put steel tariffs in place doesn't make them any less of a friend than our partners over the Channel who have stiffed just as often.

We may not like the regime in the US, but to pretend that we have better relations with the EU is false.

[Renzo]

I see I have arrived late to this thread. And no he should not get death, for a start its an 'easy way out' and secondly it makes them not better than him.

Lukesh, open your eyes for crying out loud, can you not see that the death penalty is a totally sick form of punishment?

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Man Of Kent


Don't you believe that Bush has anything to answer for then? Are you saying that it's okay that he has ordered the deaths and torture to people? If so, what is it that makes it "right"? pardon? explain...

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Renzokuken
I see I have arrived late to this thread. And no he should not get death, for a start its an 'easy way out' and secondly it makes them not better than him.

Lukesh, open your eyes for crying out loud, can you not see that the death penalty is a totally sick form of punishment? Call me Luke, thats to everyone, please! thanks.


Certainly is totally sick, and what saddam did is totally sick. Don't you believe he deserves a sick punishment?

[Man Of Kent]

Originally posted by lukesh
pardon? explain...

Jesus [/exasperation]

Let's try an make this simple.

You want Saddam to face the death penalty because he order the deaths of people who disagreed with him. He also had them tortured. You see this as "justice"

You don't want Bush to face "justice" even though he has signed death warrants and had people tortured.

What makes the two different?

[Man Of Kent]

Originally posted by Renzokuken
I see I have arrived late to this thread. And no he should not get death, for a start its an 'easy way out' and secondly it makes them not better than him.

Much better to give the opponents of the new regime a man around whom they can rally and potentially bring to power again.

Another person who needs to read "The Prince"...

[Renzo]

Originally posted by lukesh
Call me Luke, thats to everyone, please! thanks.


Certainly is totally sick, and what saddam did is totally sick. Don't you believe he deserves a sick punishment?

an eye for an eye ay "luke" :rolleyes:

No I do not, I beleive that having to spend the rest of his life inside a prison cell would be enough.

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Renzokuken
an eye for an eye ay "luke" :rolleyes:

No I do not, I beleive that having to spend the rest of his life inside a prison cell would be enough. explain what you would give him then? such as prsion conditions etc?

[The Matadore]

They are our true friends and allies.

This is a lie. All the Franco-German axis wants to do is dominate the EU, turning it into a federal superstate in the process.

This is akin to Hitlers attempted unification of Europe in 1939, but this time its done through behind the scenes bullying and undemocratic institutions.

As for Saddam, the Iraqi jury is the only body who can decide whether he gets the death penalty or not.

If I was on the jury, id see him locked up, forever.

[Aladdin]

Well thank god then for the USA... otherwise those evil neo-Nazi continental Europeans would be ruling the world by now and Britain would be a nation of slaves living under the Franco-German boot!

Though I'm glad to see we agree on the kind of sentence Saddam should receive.

[Kermit]

Originally posted by lukesh
when I say that about Europe you give me loads back.

No, I ask you to prove your statement.

I shall prove mine: cashmere. Oh, and apropos of nothing, do you know how much protection we get from "Son of Star Wars"?

[Kermit]

Originally posted by The Matadore
This is a lie. All the Franco-German axis wants to do is dominate the EU, turning it into a federal superstate in the process.

The thing is, though, if Britain became fully involved in Europe then there wouldn't be this issue. Do you seriously think France and Germany, who have spent hundreds of years fighting each other, actually trust each other?

If you think that the Franco-German axis is so indestructable go and do some research on the European Rapid Reaction Force. And on the real reason why Major managed to win the vetos at Maastricht.

[ladymuck]

If you think that the Franco-German axis is so indestructable go and do some research on the European Rapid Reaction Force. And on the real reason why Major managed to win the vetos at Maastricht.

Que?

[Whowhere]

I prefer the idea of seeing Saddam rot in Abu-Ghraib whilst it's still under control of US forces.
Let them sodomise him to death with tent pegs and take funky pictures of his "other" beard.

THAT'S justice.

[ladymuck]

Lifers can enjoy the comfort of madness esp SH whose sanity is questionable

Whereas being marched out to the scaffold/firing-squad will bring his life into sharp focus and will be enjoyed as an event by many

[byny]

Has anyone mentioned the fact that, considering the amount he must know about American dealings in Iraq before the invasion, it's likely he'll 'kill himself' before it is judged anyway!!

The death penatly is wrong, whatever sick and evil things he did . I don't believe in an eye-for-an-eye anyway.

How anyone can 'enjoy' the execution of another person is beyond me

[ladymuck]

How anyone can 'enjoy' the execution of another person is beyond me

You really can't imagine a blood-lust for revenge in countries exposed to horrors like in Iraq?

[LabRat]

If Saddam committed some real crimes as murders, rapes , tortures, robbery he should be punished ( or forgiven) by his victims or relatives of his victims. In no way by some American or Iraqi government’s appointed inquisition ( so called court)
If he is “guilty” in giving orders- he is guilty in freedom of speech only and should be freed.
Real murderers, robbers etc should bear the full responsibility

[ladymuck]

If he is “guilty” in giving orders- he is guilty in freedom of speech only and should be freed.

:lol: :lol:

[Kermit]

I'm just enjoying the touching naivete in everyone saying "if" he is found guilty.

There is no if about it.

He was arrested for political reasons. He is now on trial for political reasons, and those political reasons mean that he MUST be found guilty, and he must be executed. There is no option of life imprisonment, and there is no option of him being acquitted of his "crimes".

He is dangerous to the new regime in Iraq, and he has to be killed because of this. There is no "justice" in what is to happen, and anyone who tries to claim that there is is a fool.

It simply must happen, and will happen. I doubt many will miss him, but lets not kid ourselves about the real reason.

[Kermit]

Originally posted by ladymuck
Que?

It's quite simple- we got what we wanted by playing the French and the Germans off against each other.

The veto was maintained by siding with Germany over the declaration of Croatia as an independent state, and there is no ERRF yet because the French don't trust the Germans to run it, and the Germans don't trust the French to run it.

If Britain put its head down and worked in Europe, Britain would become the pivotal player, as quite often the French and Germans agree because there's no-one there to let them disagree.

[Aladdin]

Originally posted by LabRat
If Saddam committed some real crimes as murders, rapes , tortures, robbery he should be punished ( or forgiven) by his victims or relatives of his victims. In no way by some American or Iraqi government’s appointed inquisition ( so called court)
If he is “guilty” in giving orders- he is guilty in freedom of speech only and should be freed.
Real murderers, robbers etc should bear the full responsibility Tell me LabRat... if I were to put a contract on you because I don't like you, I suppose you'd have no problem with the police leaving me well alone if they found out. Only the hitman should be prosecuted, right?

Absolute vintage.

[byny]

Originally posted by ladymuck
You really can't imagine a blood-lust for revenge in countries exposed to horrors like in Iraq? Like I said - it's beyond me

[*DEVIL*]

To be honest i had always agreed with the death penalty, after seeing that murderers and scum like that got their sentences shortened, however after watching "Green Mile" i have realised that the dealth penalty is an evil way of punishing someone, it punishes those around the prisoner, the person doinf the execution its just horrible. Not to mention a mistake, some cases are reopened due to fresh evidence, if the prisoner is killed, is that fair justice?

I dont like Saddam but, i do feel a lifetime in prison is enough to make him realise what he has done :(

[lukesh]

Originally posted by *DEVIL*
To be honest i had always agreed with the death penalty, after seeing that murderers and scum like that got their sentences shortened, however after watching "Green Mile" i have realised that the dealth penalty is an evil way of punishing someone, it punishes those around the prisoner, the person doinf the execution its just horrible. Not to mention a mistake, some cases are reopened due to fresh evidence, if the prisoner is killed, is that fair justice?

I dont like Saddam but, i do feel a lifetime in prison is enough to make him realise what he has done :( The Green Mile... humm I'll have to see that as I fully support the death penalty.

[Kermit]

Originally posted by *DEVIL*
To be honest i had always agreed with the death penalty, after seeing that murderers and scum like that got their sentences shortened

This is a digression, but murderers in the United Kingdom receive a mandatory sentence of life imprisonment. When released a murderer still remains on license, and can be returned to jail for any other crime. Only the Home Secretary can release prisoners on license.

Are you trying to tell me that nobody should ever be released? What about the woman who was beaten by her husband, or the person who murders their rapist or child abuser?

Nothing is cut-and-dried. The evil killers don't get let out.

[ShyBoy]

Originally posted by lukesh
The Green Mile... humm I'll have to see that as I fully support the death penalty.

Unfortunately it's not a type of film you sit down to with popcorn and watch the 'motherfuckers die'. It's more of a fantasy film actually. Anyway, I agree with Kermit that whatever's going to happen is already completely planned by the US and the new Iraqi provisional government.

[ladymuck]

The Green Mile - a bit schmaltzy for my taste (Tom Hanks - what would you expect)

A better UK based choice would be 'Dance with a stranger' based on the events leading up to the last woman hanged in the UK, Ruth Ellis, in 1955

[Aladdin]

What was the name of that film Sean Penn playing a convicted murderer in death row? Susan Sarandon plays a nun campaigning against his death sentence. That is a pretty good one as well...

May I ask Luke one thing? Could YOU switch on the 'juice'?

[Clandestine]

Dead Man Walking!

[Aladdin]

That's the one. Race to the video shop Luke

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Aladdin


May I ask Luke one thing? Could YOU switch on the 'juice'? I don't know what you mean?

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Aladdin
That's the one. Race to the video shop Luke to buy that video? why?

[ladymuck]

to buy that video? why?

Avoid mainstream Hollywood films, they have the usual amount of heart-string tugging and contian little truth.

Why is the Green Mile so highly-rated?

back to the thread, the objection to death penalty is usually a practical one of possible miscarriage of justice . There's no doubting SH's guilt, a million witnesses could be produced

Why shouldn't humans be killed by other humans? Next they'll be saying all human life is sacred:eek:

[Kermit]

Originally posted by lukesh
I don't know what you mean?

Could you press the button to execute another human?

[Aladdin]

Originally posted by ladymuck
Avoid mainstream Hollywood films, they have the usual amount of heart-string tugging and contian little truth.

Of course. What's your opinion on Schindler's List ladymuck?

back to the thread, the objection to death penalty is usually a practical one of possible miscarriage of justice . There's no doubting SH's guilt, a million witnesses could be produced

Why shouldn't humans be killed by other humans? Next they'll be saying all human life is sacred:eek: If that was an attempt at sarcasm it was rather poor...

[ladymuck]

What's your opinion on Schindler's List ladymuck?

Another schmaltz-fest

Suddenly Europe has got all squeamish about death penalty to extent we can't extradite felons to countries that practise it. That's cobblers, if they murdered in those countries they should face that penalty and we should facilitate it

[ShyBoy]

Originally posted by ladymuck
Another schmaltz-fest

Suddenly Europe has got all squeamish about death penalty to extent we can't extradite felons to countries that practise it. That's cobblers, if they murdered in those countries they should face that penalty and we should facilitate it

There's a difference between getting squemish and respecting human life. As for the green mile - I think a lot of people like it because it's an emotional film with the black guy actually being some kind of angel. It's like half chick flick but still has the tension for the guys.

[Aladdin]

Civilised people don't believe in the death penalty as an acceptable form of punishment ladymuck. That is why we don't extradite people if they can expect to be executed.

Is it that difficult to understand?

Another schmaltz-fest Is it? Maybe you're right... maybe the Holocaust was just a 'small detail' of WWII and not worthy of such attention, as Le Pen thinks. Do you agree with that?

Or perhaps the film is distorting the truth as well. I mean we all know that the gas chambers didn't really exist did they? David Irving says so so it must be true...

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Kermit
Could you press the button to execute another human? Iam lost here now. :confused:

[ladymuck]

Civilised people don't believe in the death penalty as an acceptable form of punishment ladymuck.

Self-righteous humbug.

Who are you to call much of the World uncivilised?

maybe the Holocaust was just a 'small detail' of WWII and not worthy of such attention, as Le Pen thinks. Do you agree with that?

Breathtaking ramming of your words into my mouth

I wouldn't trust you to interogate anyone

[Renzo]

Originally posted by lukesh
Iam lost here now. :confused:

Could you personally be the one who turns on the electric chair or gives someone the lethal injection? Would you be able to kill another person like that

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Renzokuken
Could you personally be the one who turns on the electric chair or gives someone the lethal injection? Would you be able to kill another person like that No, couldn't do it!

[Kermit]

Originally posted by lukesh
No, couldn't do it!

But you believe in the death penalty?

Anyone who believes in the death penalty but couldn't actually kill somebody because of it is a hypocrite of the highest order.

And Aladdin, Schindler's List by its very nature is emotional. Emotion plays no part in the recital of fact, whether you like the emotion or not is a matter of personal opinion. For me, Schindler's List was not over-done, but it's easy to see why people think it might be.

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Kermit
But you believe in the death penalty?

Anyone who believes in the death penalty but couldn't actually kill somebody because of it is a hypocrite of the highest order.

And Aladdin, Schindler's List by its very nature is emotional. Emotion plays no part in the recital of fact, whether you like the emotion or not is a matter of personal opinion. For me, Schindler's List was not over-done, but it's easy to see why people think it might be. Yes true I support the death penalty but couldn't do it my self.

I support it because of peadohpiles really. What i hear them do and the sentences they get it makes me sick so putting them to death is best, kick them out of the world, put them in hell!

[Kermit]

Could you shoot a peadophile?

If you couldn't, why do you expect "them" to?

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Kermit
Could you shoot a peadophile?

If you couldn't, why do you expect "them" to? I don't know.

[Kermit]

Originally posted by lukesh
I don't know.

Then you'd betetr think about it.

If you couldn't kill a "murdering scumbag" then you have no right at all to support the death penalty.

[ladymuck]

If you couldn't, why do you expect "them" to?

But i know someone who can!

albert Pierepoint our last full-time hangman retired at a ripe old age with no regrets as to his career-choice

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Kermit
Then you'd betetr think about it.

If you couldn't kill a "murdering scumbag" then you have no right at all to support the death penalty. lol.

I think many people who support the death penalty couldn't do it them selves.

It makes me sick though seeing peadoophiles getting pittence for what they have done!

[katchika]

I think he should be executed. If that makes me uncivilised, I can live with that. For the millions who lived under his tyranny, were gassed, tortured, raped and brutalised under his regime, I feel that they deserve to see justice be done. Not to see Saddam kept in a nice cosy prison with phone calls to his family..benefits he did not bestow upon those who wronged him.

Once they have found out more information from him, documents, tried him, got some sort of truth, they should do it.

I can't speak for all Iraqis but according to my boyfriend 99.9% of Kurds want him executed. Why should he be kept alive when his laws killed people who did nothing other than oppose him?

[lukesh]

Originally posted by PussyKatty
I think he should be executed. If that makes me uncivilised, I can live with that. For the millions who lived under his tyranny, were gassed, tortured, raped and brutalised under his regime, I feel that they deserve to see justice be done. Not to see Saddam kept in a nice cosy prison with phone calls to his family..benefits he did not bestow upon those who wronged him.

Once they have found out more information from him, documents, tried him, got some sort of truth, they should do it.

I can't speak for all Iraqis but according to my boyfriend 99.9% of Kurds want him executed. Why should he be kept alive when his laws killed people who did nothing other than oppose him? Exactly right!

[Aladdin]

Originally posted by lukesh
lol.

I think many people who support the death penalty couldn't do it them selves.

They're all hypocrites.

At the end of the day it's easy to demand death for others so long as you don't have to do it yourself...

Originally posted by ladymuck
Self-righteous humbug.

Who are you to call much of the World uncivilised? Er... someone who believes no human being has the right to take another person's life, regardless of whether it is done as 'punishment' or 'revenge'.

So yes, I am perfectly right to define those who believe in such punishment as uncivilised.

Got a problem with that?

[Man Of Kent]

Originally posted by Aladdin
Is it? Maybe you're right...

I thought it was schmaltzy, more so than the book on which it was based.

But then it was an emotional film for the director too...

maybe the Holocaust was just a 'small detail' of WWII and not worthy of such attention, as Le Pen thinks. Do you agree with that?

Or perhaps the film is distorting the truth as well. I mean we all know that the gas chambers didn't really exist did they? David Irving says so so it must be true...

Not quite sure on how this is relevant to the "should saddam be killed" debate? And I haven't read anything from ladymuck which might suggest that she thinks like this...?

Er... someone who believes no human being has the right to take another person's life, regardless of whether it is done as 'punishment' or 'revenge'.

So, [devil's advocate] how can you support abortion then when you argue that no human being has the right to take another life[/devil's advocate]?

That doesn't even have the "punishment/revenge" defence...?

[Aladdin]

Not really since a foetus has not become a human being yet.

[Man Of Kent]

Originally posted by Aladdin
Not really since a foetus has not become a human being yet.

Ah, you see now we are getting into definitions...

[Aladdin]

And a fairly clear one that is when regarding to a growing group of cells I think...

But let's reserve this for another thread as we could be debating it for a while!

[Luce]

Yes, Saddam should hang in a public, drawn-out, violent, bloody way, never mind making a matyr of him. The point of leaving someone to rot in a jail cell is that they can think about their actions and feel sorry for committing crimes, yet I doubt whether Saddam would ever feel guilty, or recognise what wrong he has done. The Iraqis should try him by their own laws, which includes the death penalty, and visually see him cease to exist before their own eyes, so they know he has finally gone.