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Rocksteady
22-06-2004, 09:57 PM
With the beginning of the EMU project in 1999, the British government decided it best for the country to remain outside this controversial and arguably risk bearing project. Many have criticised this decision as part of the ongoing saga whereby the UK remains outside a European project and eventually seeing the benefits decides to join. This was the case with both the economic community and the ERM and when we did join the structure of the projects had already been established. However the clear failure of the ERM on “Black (or White) Wednesday”, reflecting in essence the failed preparation for monetary union, illustrates how volatile such a project can be. The UK government lost billions of pounds worth of foreign currency reserves in the ERM project and it should never make the same mistake again. Furthermore, the economic community project has not been anywhere near as successful as predicted. With the loss of our free trade with our Commonwealth partners, the UK effectively sacrificed the last remaining threads of not only our cultural history with those nations but our sense of dignity in supporting those nations economically, nations that once made the UK a great power of the world. Now we are effectively stuck inside the European project with a common external barrier to all imports from the rest of the world, that not only raises the price of goods for consumers but has effectively placed Europe in a status of Nazi style “self determination”. While this continues we are not only being hypocritical as we urge the rest of the world to open their economies to free trade, but we continue to dump our over subsidised agricultural produce, (paid for of course by the tax payer), into these poor nations that cannot possibly compete on the same level.
The UK government made a fantastic decision not to take us into the Euro at its outset and should never take the UK into the EMU for not only economic but also clear political reasons.

To begin with in the past 5 years that the UK has remained outside the EMU we have been one of the best performing economies in Europe and the best performing large economy. Growth in Germany and France the two largest economies within the EMU has been stagnant in the past number of years. Significantly the ECB, with a strong German influence has no growth target whatsoever but focuses its monetary policy on ensuring that inflation within the Eurozone remains stable. The Euro is a deflationary project and is only concerned with low prices. Countries also squeezed their economies in the first place to gain entry and with German growth rate in the negative figures last year at -0.1% it could easily slip into recession while the UK’s growth remained strong at 2.1% last year.

In terms of authority over the ECB it is only accountable to the weak European parliament. Indeed Professor Willem Buiter, former member of the Bank of England’s Monetary Policy committee was quoted in the Sunday Times on the 23 of April 2000 as saying “In a society that is and wants to be democratic, you cannot give an important policy instrument to a group of un-elected technocrats and not have them be open and accountable.” The strategy of the ECB may also correspond to the preferences of Europe’s biggest power namely Germany however this has yet to materialise as the ECB did not cut interest rates at Germany’s request. The ECB is also an unelected body so we cannot remove the president if we disapprove of his policies. At the minute although the Bank of England is technically independent, the government still has full control. The bank must ensure inflation stays within the set limits otherwise it must write a letter directly to the chancellor explaining its policy. With a European bank isolated from scrutiny corruption may take place and their policy may not be favourable with the economies within the Eurozone. This goes hand in hand with the underlying problem of the single European currency namely a single monetary policy.

There is a major problem in Europe with the “one size fits all” interest rate. The economies of Europe are not sufficiently converged to justify such a situation. It only takes to look at the problems the Republic of Ireland is having with the significantly lower interest rate when they joined the Euro. Overnight in 1999 the ROI’s interest rate was cut from 5.5% down to 3% in line with the rest of Europe. This has caused major problems in terms of an overheating of the Irish economy. With economic growth levels now at 6%, the highest in Europe, and local inflation causing prices to soar the Republic is facing major problems. Because excess demand is not being cut off by high interest rates, Ireland is likely to see prices and wages rise faster than elsewhere in Europe. This will undermine Irish competitiveness and could hurt long-term economic prospects. Although the rising wages in Ireland have attracted reverse migration by some of the overseas Irish, it is unlikely to be enough to damp wage increases, especially in the areas of high labour demand like information technology.
With monetary tightening impossible, the standard alternative way to limit demand would be by cutting government spending or raising taxes. But the Irish government doesn't want to cut government programs and it would rather cut taxes to stimulate incentives. So Irish demand is likely to stay too high, punishing Ireland's internationally engaged industries. These industries could contract and become more focused on a domestic market, forcing up Irish unemployment and effectively causing a powerful boom-bust cycle that cannot be controlled by monetary policy.
In terms of the UK, we are the most mis-aligned economy within Europe as we are much more affected by economic developments in the US. Structurally we are also much more interest rate sensitive and as with the Republic of Ireland we have more variable rate mortgages and far more owner-occupation of housing. The interest rate set by the ECB is therefore predicted to have 4 times more of an effect on our economy compared to the rest of Europe according to a study by Oxford Economic Forecasting. This is worrying especially with predictions being made of a possible slowdown and potential bust in the housing market and a lower interest rate would only feed more fuel in an already out of control fire. Oxford Economic Forcasting also examined the consequence of Britain joining in 1999. They believe that UK property prices would have been pushed 30 percent higher than they are now, the current account deficit would have ballooned by an extra £50 billion and inflation would have been pushed to over 4 per cent. This would have undermined the competitiveness of the UK leading to a bust - and, as a result, Britain would have fallen into a recession by early 2002. Looking ahead, the study finds that the UK economy would be far more vulnerable inside the Euro to shocks in consumer confidence affecting the housing market also and the inadequacies of a proper interest rate to combat these effects would cause potential deflation and higher unemployment.

The EMU does however have its supporters, Some believe that with over 50% of our trade within the EU the benefits to business from the single European market would be maximised. It is true that transaction costs would no longer exist and it is estimated that the UK could save around £3.6bn at today’s prices. The EMU would also provide a further boost to trade and investment by removing exchange rate uncertainty. The Euro may also ensure that foreign investment continues to flow into the UK. This is especially so from the likes of far eastern companies such as Nissan and Toyota who threatened to move to the European mainland unless the UK adopted the EMU. However on the outside of the Eurozone the UK has still managed to retain its leading position as top country for foreign investment. Some believe it may be far better to be on the inside of decisions about European interest rates, that inevitably affect us being a part of the European market. As Lyndon Johnson former US president once said, “It is better to be on the inside pissing out than to be on the outside getting pissed upon!”
Other arguments in favour of the Euro include the fact that the European tough discipline against inflation will ensure inflation is kept under control. However with a target of just 2% this may seam like a valid point however the measure of inflation in the Eurozone and in the UK is different as the UK takes into account the price of housing pushing our inflation higher than Europe so realistically this point is invalid. Some feel that the lower interest rates in the Euro would be a good thing for the UK. This is not the case! Not only would there be upset in the property market as stated before, but a lower interest rate is an ingredient for a return to boom bust economics. Also the fact that the level of consumer debt in the UK is at record levels would be a serious problem as people would be encouraged to borrow and spend even more! Furthermore, a lower rate of interest might increase the level of imports and with warning on the current level of the current account deficit, a higher level of imports would make the whole situation a recipe for disaster.

Rocksteady
22-06-2004, 10:04 PM
Other arguments in favour of the Euro include the fact that the European tough discipline against inflation will ensure inflation is kept under control. However with a target of just 2% this may seam like a valid point however the measure of inflation in the Eurozone and in the UK is different as the UK takes into account the price of housing pushing our inflation higher than Europe so realistically this point is invalid. Some feel that the lower interest rates in the Euro would be a good thing for the UK. This is not the case! Not only would there be upset in the property market as stated before, but a lower interest rate is an ingredient for a return to boom bust economics. Also the fact that the level of consumer debt in the UK is at record levels would be a serious problem as people would be encouraged to borrow and spend even more! Furthermore, a lower rate of interest might increase the level of imports and with warning on the current level of the current account deficit, a higher level of imports would make the whole situation a recipe for disaster.
People felt at the time that speculators would attack sterling over time as its weakness against the Euro was unveiled. Some felt that benefits of the Euro included the security in that it was backed by a large number of economies and their central banks. However this fear of depreciation was never born out and the speculators didn’t attack Sterling. Yet another benefit may be felt in terms of consumer empowerment through greater price transparency as multinationals will no longer be able to hide under currency fluctuations and rip off Britain will be no more! This however has not been the case for the Republic of Ireland who have experienced local inflation because of the overheating economy. Also many manufacturers claim it is the cost of transport for the UK, which drives up our prices and not the fact we have an independent currency. Many of the goods which are also thought overtly expensive in the UK are the result of other factors as well such as the so called sin taxes levied on drink, cigarettes and petrol and the fact that we drive on the different side of the road to the rest of mainland Europe has also been used by manufacturers as an excuse for higher prices.

To join the EMU arguably greater labour market flexibility is required. Not only is Europe divided geographically and culturally but also linguistically. This proves to be a major problem especially if there is a set monetary policy for the Eurozone. It is fair to assess that the ECB would set interest rates to satisfy the majority of Europe and therefore also fair to assess that Europe as a whole would benefit from those interest rates. The problem however stems from the fact that labour would not be fully flexible for example there may be high unemployment in the UK but plenty of jobs available in Germany but because of the different languages the UK workforce would not be suited to work in Germany. With the new Eastern European countries about to join the Eurozone every country across Europe bar the UK have placed restrictions on the migration of potentially thousands of workers who wish to enter the richer countries and gain not only better employment but the benefits of the generous welfare systems. This illustrates that the true state of a free flexible labour market is not only not considered desirable but not acceptable by most of the nations of Europe! Also the chancellor Gordon Brown himself has denounced Europe’s rigid regulated labour market and red tape laws that exist. He believes it is necessary for Europe to reform and has placed it as part of the 5 conditions for entry. We should therefore question whether it would be in our benefit to sacrifice our flexible labour market for the Euro.

Another clear problem for the Euro will be the large fiscal transfers required. The richer nations and taxpayers within the Eurozone including the UK will have to be prepared to effectively dig deeper to help counter unemployment in the relatively poorer countries such as Greece or Poland. There would need to be greater regional development schemes to reduce structural economic inequalities. Northern Ireland has already lost its level 1 priority within the EU and may become a contributor already but that would be guaranteed if we were taken into the EMU. Arguably the debate extends further than this. For a true single European market to work effectively there will have to be at some point tax harmonisation across the Eurozone. There is absolutely no doubt this is a fundamental aim of the French, German and many other European governments. Indeed Jacques Chirac, the French President was quoted in Le Monde on the 7th of March 2002 as saying [we need], “genuine fiscal harmonisation in Europe…in an open, competitive Europe with a common currency, it is damaging for the French to always be taxed more than everyone else.” Gerhard Schroeder, the German Chancellor, in the Times, 22 February, also stated “we need the Europeanisation of everything to do with economic and financial policy.” The British chancellor has effectively ruled out tax harmonisation and has argued that the single European market cannot enter that domain. However with the other aspects of the Intra European free market this may cause problems. Consumers may still travel to the Republic of Ireland for example to purchase petrol because of the lower tax levied. With the age of the internet consumers may also buy goods from the European countries with the lowest VAT and at no extra charge. Companies may also set up in the countries with the lowest taxes and where they can pay the lowest wages. Without the flexibility of Labour it would be difficult for workers to migrate to the areas of employment. The fact also that there would no longer be appreciation and depreciation of the currencies on the FOREX could cause problems for countries. As everyone adopts the Euro the balance of payments would be measured on a European wide basis, yet countries such as the UK could continue dangerously within a current account deficit, relying on the rest of Europe’s performance. There are therefore economic costs and risks arising from the option to devalue the currency in order to restore international competitiveness. It may also lead to growing social dislocation and rising economic inequality within the EU.
Joining the Euro would certainly mean sacrificing British Economic sovereignty. The UK would loose its ability to run a national economy according to national circumstances and needs. Under the terms of the “stupid” stability and growth pact as Romano Prodi, head of the European commission put it, the UK government would be locked to within a 3% budget deficit or face the consequences of being fined. Currently the UK government has the flexibility to go into deficit in order to re-flate the economy and increase government spending. At present the government deficit is 3.7% of GDP and therefore joining the Euro would require the government to either increase taxes or cut government spending to be even accepted! “The bottom line is that the Government’s decision on whether or not to join the single currency may very well come down to a straight choice between the Euro and delivering its promised improvements in schools, hospitals and transport”, (Roger Bootle, Deloitte and Touche Economic Advisor, 20 July, 2001). If the government were to go over the 3% limit the UK would eligible for a fine, quite possibly at a time of economic difficulty. The UK is continuing the ongoing devolution of political power to the different regions and Scotland has gained its own powers to levy tax. Joining the Euro will lead to the aim of tax harmonisation and the power to levy our own tax will be lost along with the important work of the regional parliaments valued in particular by the Scots. It also takes one to look closley at the emerging problem of the ageing populations of Europe. If in the future there comes a point when the high welfare economies of the EU can no longer support such a huge amount of pensioners, it will be the UK with their relatively younger and growing populations that will ultimately have to bail the Europeans out. Not only would this involve large sums of fiscal transfers but the economy of the whole of Europe would suffer and the UK being a part of the Euro would be dragged into the mess. "In many European countries, the public pension systems are becoming unsustainable. If they are not reformed soon, public pension systems in many EU Member States pose a threat to the competitiveness of the European economy, to public finances and ultimately to confidence in public pension systems and in those who provide them”, European Round Table of Industrialists, January 2000.

Northern Ireland is a special case. Not only is it the only country in the UK that shares a land border with a Eurozone country it shares a significant amount of trade also. As a result fluctuations in the exchange rate will greatly affect Northern Ireland. The recent appreciation of the Euro has made exports more competitive and Northern Ireland is currently benefiting from this situation. Northern Ireland is also on the periphery of the Eurozone and has already lost a lot of regional development funding. By not joining the Euro it risks loosing out on a significant amount of investment. This however has not materialised and the UK as a whole still stands strong as the biggest recipient of foreign investment.

Rocksteady
22-06-2004, 10:05 PM
To answer the initial question, I believe the UK made a good decision to stay well clear of the Euro especially at its outset. As stated before there could have been major economic problems emerged. Not only do the UK public support this view, on balance, public opinion across the seven Eurozone countries involved in a poll, published in the Guardian 2001, have turned against the new currency, with 41% saying they are happy to have adopted the Euro and 52% saying they are not and this has been an ongoing downward trend with support waning. Also the Chancellor has published a report confirming that 4 of the 5 economic tests set by him have not been passed with the only a positive effect of the Euro on the financial services industry confirmed.
The British government seam to be denial of the aims of their European colleagues and with a statement made by Tony Blair, quoted at the Helsinki Summit in 1999 as saying, “There’s no way that the rest of Europe wants to be standardising all the income and corporate tax rates across Europe,” its quite clear they are far removed from the reality of an emerging federal Europe. Changing to the Euro is a fundamental change and a step towards European tax harmonisation and a stronger European government. The hostility of the “old” Europeans to America politically also begs important questions of the true plan behind European Economic integration. “We don't agree with the Americanisation of the world. . . we are saying that together we can build a new superpower. . . and its name will be Europe”, Pierre Moscovici, French Foreign Minister, Daily Mail, 24 May 2001.
“The process of monetary union goes hand-in-hand, must go hand-in-hand, with political integration and ultimately political union. EMU is, and always was meant to be, a stepping stone on the way to a united Europe.” Wim Duisenberg, President of the European Central Bank, November 1999.
All this talk of the single currency, and harmonisation begs one further question. Why is there no talk of a single language? This would make it even easier for trade etc? The obvious choice would be English - but I can't see the French or Germans allowing that! Also some people seem to genuinely believe that we should join the Euro simply to avoid the hassle of changing money when we go on holiday. What is the problem? When abroad you go to cash machine, remove card from wallet, enter PIN, enter amount, and hey presto Euros.

lukesh
23-06-2004, 12:34 PM
wow Rocksteady did you type all of that?

I feel as U.K isn't ready for the Euro, the Pound is better in many cases.

LabRat
23-06-2004, 04:55 PM
Both Euro and Pound are shit. As well as dollars, yens and pesos.
Used toilet paper.

Aladdin
23-06-2004, 05:01 PM
Well I'm glad you've finally come to embrace the pure communism ideal and seek to replace money with working credits and exchange of goods between workers. :D

LabRat
23-06-2004, 05:14 PM
Originally posted by Aladdin
Well I'm glad you've finally come to embrace the pure communism ideal and seek to replace money with working credits and exchange of goods between workers. :D
Sorry Alladdin... are you talking about me?:confused:

Aladdin
23-06-2004, 05:24 PM
Yes. It was a joke prompted by your apparent dislike of all major currencies.

LabRat
23-06-2004, 06:08 PM
Auhh... you haven't caught my idea. I meant those major currencies are toilet paper because they are really paper and nothing more.
Real money is gold.

Aladdin
23-06-2004, 06:20 PM
I see what you mean.

Blagsta
23-06-2004, 06:25 PM
Originally posted by LabRat
Auhh... you haven't caught my idea. I meant those major currencies are toilet paper because they are really paper and nothing more.
Real money is gold.

No, real money is whatever people deem to be valuable.

ShyBoy
23-06-2004, 06:36 PM
Originally posted by lukesh
I feel as U.K isn't ready for the Euro, the Pound is better in many cases.

:yes: moving to the Euro right now would mess up a lot of things. Wait until we are more synchronised with the European economies etc

FFC85
23-06-2004, 07:13 PM
Does anyone believe that there will come a point where our economy is sufficiently converged with the economies of the 'Eurozone' to enable the UK to join the single currency?

wheresmyplacebo
23-06-2004, 07:20 PM
our societies have too much natural economic difference to be able to converge i reckon, then again one day i think we'll need to join

not at the moment though

ShyBoy
23-06-2004, 10:15 PM
Originally posted by FFC85
Does anyone believe that there will come a point where our economy is sufficiently converged with the economies of the 'Eurozone' to enable the UK to join the single currency?

Yep, I believe so. Tony Blair has made several small changes to the way our country is run in order to try to synchronise our economy with the european one.

Rocksteady
24-06-2004, 02:00 AM
Well to converge with the Eurozone economies would mean an awful lot more than simply making a few changes....

It is said we are about 10 years behind the US and a number of years ahead of the EU so it is up to the Eurozone to converge with the UK.

lukesh
24-06-2004, 09:25 AM
Originally posted by TheShyBoyInTheCorner
:yes: moving to the Euro right now would mess up a lot of things. Wait until we are more synchronised with the European economies etc what do you mean? have a crap economy like theirs? i doubt we'll do as bad as them if we stick with the mighty Pound.

lukesh
24-06-2004, 09:26 AM
Originally posted by TheShyBoyInTheCorner
Yep, I believe so. Tony Blair has made several small changes to the way our country is run in order to try to synchronise our economy with the european one. soin away he is forcing it on us? Just like the Constitution. What a Prime Minister we have!

We should let our economy flow, leave it alone, don't drop the Pound in value so we are trciked into the Euro etc.

lukesh
24-06-2004, 09:27 AM
Originally posted by Rocksteady
Well to converge with the Eurozone economies would mean an awful lot more than simply making a few changes....

It is said we are about 10 years behind the US and a number of years ahead of the EU so it is up to the Eurozone to converge with the UK. Deinitley. We are ahead of Europe, it's them who need us more than we need them.

They should have the Pound, I would be for that!

Rocksteady
24-06-2004, 06:38 PM
"They should have the Pound, I would be for that!"

I wouldnt, wouldnt that not be the Euro with a different name?

lukesh
24-06-2004, 07:05 PM
Originally posted by Rocksteady
"They should have the Pound, I would be for that!"

I wouldnt, wouldnt that not be the Euro with a different name? Correct! Forget that then.