Clones - Yay or Nay

[Hellfire]

No doubt it's been done before...


your views, yay or nay?

[Dear Wendy]

Care to detail your question a bit?

Don'y know what you meant, but I'll give my opinion either way.
Cloning organs for human beings should be permittable. Cloning human beings, should not.

[Indrid Cold]

I said no, but I actually agree with Jacq. But only if cloning a specific organ (and not the whole human) is possible.

[Hellfire]

sorry I didn't explain

Should cloneing WHOLE humans be allowed

[wheresmyplacebo]

theres no need to clone whole humans, organs fair enough as in pancreatic cells of a person so they can produce insulin themselves- but whole people NO we have a big enough population and well theres plenty of kids that need parents as it is

[Lord Anthony]

Hello,
I believe that stem cell research is vital to progress in medical research. In this country the cloned embryoes are not allowed to develop beyond a very early stage. Something like the the size of a pin head. The cells from these are thought to be able to help cure diseases in the future such as MS, Parkinson, moter neurone disease, etc. So a definate yes for that.

Cloning humans and letting them develop to full term on the other hand is a completely different and more emotive issue which doesn't seem to have any other reason for it being done, except for that it can be. So a definate no for that.

[Dear Wendy]

Originally posted by wheresmyplacebo
theres no need to clone whole humans, organs fair enough as in pancreatic cells of a person so they can produce insulin themselves- but whole people NO we have a big enough population and well theres plenty of kids that need parents as it is

Cloning won't help regarding Diabetes.
It's signals from the brain that are damaged, which make the pancreas stop or reduce the production of insulin.
That is why people with diabetes, don't get transplants.

[Arper]

Absolutely no way in the world!!! It is completely unnatural.

The progress in cloning and other genetic modification/engineering in the scientific world is actually quite worrying.

It is fair enough for the cloning of organs to help the ill and also for the use of cloning embryos to be used for creating treatment for such things as diabetes and Parkinsons but any whole human cloning which reaches the stage of a baby being formed is just wrong and is also unlikely to succeed. This article is quite interesting on the subject.

http://www.newscientist.com/hottopics/cloning/cloning.jsp?id=ns99994667 (http://)

I also believe that any further advances in embryo technology (if thats the right term!) should not be made available to the public. We already live in a sick society in which perfection is favoured and imperfection is frowned on. Any further advances in this area of science will lead to babies being created with certain 'perfect' characteristics. It will be abused in the future by people wanting 'designer babies'. This is just sick and unnatural.

[Lord Anthony]

Originally posted by Jacqueline the Ripper
Cloning won't help regarding Diabetes.
It's signals from the brain that are damaged, which make the pancreas stop or reduce the production of insulin.
That is why people with diabetes, don't get transplants.

Apprantly stem cell research will allow for pancreatic cells to be created from stem cells cloned from the person suffering form diabetes.

[wheresmyplacebo]

i think they are working upon it jaqueline...

thats what latest application to clone cells is for i think, well they using stem cells to produce insulin or something not sure

[Lord Anthony]

Here's a link.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/talking_point/3811437.stm

and here (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3810825.stm)

[The Matadore]

Who actually voted for full human cloning? Come on, speak up...

[Hellfire]

Originally posted by The Matadore
Who actually voted for full human cloning? Come on, speak up...

not me.. I'm still yet to vote..

[Dear Wendy]

Originally posted by The Matadore
Who actually voted for full human cloning? Come on, speak up...
He didn't specify.
So maybe someone voted yes to cloning for organs for instance.

[morrocan roll]

Originally posted by Lord Anthony
Hello,
I believe that stem cell research is vital to progress in medical research. In this country the cloned embryoes are not allowed to develop beyond a very early stage. Something like the the size of a pin head. The cells from these are thought to be able to help cure diseases in the future such as MS, Parkinson, moter neurone disease, etc. So a definate yes for that.

Cloning humans and letting them develop to full term on the other hand is a completely different and more emotive issue which doesn't seem to have any other reason for it being done, except for that it can be. So a definate no for that. are you realy called patrick by any chance?

[Whowhere]

No, despite what we think we are not god's.
Clone technology should be limited to organ research, nothing more.

[Lord Anthony]

Originally posted by morrocan roll
are you realy called patrick by any chance?

No, why do you think that?

[LabRat]

1. Cloning is natural. Twins are clones. For many plants cloning is the main way of reproducing ( like dandelions, strawberry etc.)
2. Cloning can’t be banned. It is not like nuclear weapons where authorities can trace all activities easily. Cloning needs small labs and few not very expensive equipment. If it is banned black markets will step in the game. Plus there are Third World countries where a modest bribe can do miracles. Governments forbid chemical drugs like methamphetamines so what? You can buy it everywhere.
And then, how to punish involved people? To kill cloned babies? To jail the parents and create orphans?
Instead of wasting efforts and money on a hopeless ‘War-on-Cloning’ we should learn to live with it.

[Whowhere]

Twins aren't clones, they are identical in appearance only, and even then there can be differences.
Would you like to share your life with your complete doppelganger?
A person who is exactly the same as you in every single way? I certainly wouldn't, and I don't think anyone else would either.

[Man Of Kent]

Originally posted by The Matadore
Who actually voted for full human cloning? Come on, speak up...

Sorry that was both of me.

[Man Of Kent]

Originally posted by LabRat
1. Cloning is natural. Twins are clones.

To an extent, and excluding twins where two eggs are released and fertilised.


Instead of wasting efforts and money on a hopeless ‘War-on-Cloning’ we should learn to live with it.

To an extent I agree, this is a fight which we will ultimately lose. I would rather spend the money on other things.

Personally, I believe it to be morally repugnant, but I know that I can never prevent it. As you say there are countries around the world who do not hold the same moral standards as you or I and they will allow it to take place in their countries - especially those where foreign investment is required...

[paperBprincess]

i think that we should only do it for certain vital organs and only in cicumstances where we can't use donors.

the problem with cloning, which was found with the whole dolly the sheep thing, is that the cells think they have already divided the amount of times that the cells they are cloned from have.
therefore they start life at whatever age those celld were and as they only have a set amount of divisions they die off quicker (or something to that extent)

[wee wuman]

Originally posted by Jacqueline the Ripper
Cloning won't help regarding Diabetes.
It's signals from the brain that are damaged, which make the pancreas stop or reduce the production of insulin.
That is why people with diabetes, don't get transplants.

ive never heard that before :confused: . i was of the understanding that type 1, at least, was caused by damage to the cells in the pancreas.

a girl i know where i live has been given the option of a pancreas transplant due to her diabetes already having her have to go through a kidney transplant.

it said in the paper today also that the cloning will help those with diabetes if all goes well with the experiments. look up diabetes uk.

[Namaste]

Originally posted by LabRat
1. Cloning is natural. Twins are clones. For many plants cloning is the main way of reproducing ( like dandelions, strawberry etc.)

Aye, stick insects can also reproduce without mating with another stick insect, so all the babies are born as clones. But twins aren't clones are they? As they simply form when the fertilised egg separates in the womb... different to what hellfire meant, man-made cloning. Twins are a fluke.


2. Cloning can’t be banned. It is not like nuclear weapons where authorities can trace all activities easily. Cloning needs small labs and few not very expensive equipment. If it is banned black markets will step in the game. Plus there are Third World countries where a modest bribe can do miracles. Governments forbid chemical drugs like methamphetamines so what? You can buy it everywhere.

Would have thought that cloning costs a lot of money...

I'm anti-cloning when it comes to human beings as whilst it's an interesting concept it's too dangerous. What will people clone? Soldiers? Police forces? Will they eventually get the technology to make people physically stronger or faster?

Sorry but I think it's sick, even those GM animals that were in the paper in Autumn last year... Cloning is simply greed in my opinion... who the hell has the right to play god?

[LabRat]

Twins ARE clones. Genetic copies of each other. Artificial cloning can’t do more. The difference between a man-made clone and his/her ‘original’ will be much bigger than between twins because of the difference in age, time, environment, life expiriens etc. If some silly Madonna’s fan steals Madonna’s DNK to make a clone he will be highly disappointed in result. He won’t get new pop star. The cloned girl will have nothing common with Madonna except her appearance.
The weird idea that clones can be identical to their originals in their thoughts and even will repeat their lives is invented by stupid non-science fiction and irresponsible mass media. It’s not science. Genetics can’t do such things. To make mental clones they need no biological cloning but a cultural device to brainwash children and unify their thinking. And yes, they have this device. It named compulsory public education.

[Hellfire]

Originally posted by MoonRat
who the hell has the right to play god?

No one... although it depends.. if they don't believe in god in they're opinion it could be right because of evolution etc.. I know what I mean atleast :(

Anyway.. cloning a human is sick.. making them stronger and faster for soliders... kinda reminds me of universial solider..

If we can clone them.. we can alter them.. if we can alter them then we can control them... choose what they do.. thoughts.. if a country altered every baby born in it.. they could control all the people.. have complete power.. no revolutions complete domination... they cloning can lead to world domination..

you control the cloning.. you control the people..

[LabRat]

Originally posted by MoonRat

... who the hell has the right to play god?
State has. Isn’t Democracy a modern God? If the majority thinks ‘there outta be law for apples to fall upward’ who can prevent this? Fuck that stupid Newton! Vox populi vox Dei or something like this, right?
Originally posted by Hellfire


you control the cloning.. you control the people..

No.
If you control the cloning you control the baby‘s genetic pattern. Or rather you control its inputs having no idea about outputs. That’s all. So what? You have not more control over its mind and life than its parents, relatives, friends, community, street, school, TV, local city council, Iraqi terrorists, National Party of Uruguay, The Ligule Of Papua Lesbians so on and on…
Honestly, I am.. how to say- embarrassed, surprised, shocked? How can people who pretend to be educated ( well, well… don’t grab my tongue … I meant state-school educated) believe in this clones-are-artificial-soldiers-emperor-slaves-creatures stupid stuff? Never heard about Genetics? Never take a single Biology lesson? Is this forum a pub filled with ignorant drunk redneck idiots who know about Genetics from tabloids only? What a bloody place I’ve got in?

[Ertrael]

here is an interesting thought for you...

What if we advanced enough for brain transplants?
then really, im not saying its morally right. But we could extend our life expectancy with this right? Once you reach say 50-60 have your brain transplanted into a clone of yourself. You keep all your memorys and everything you have learnt but your suddenly in a new body thats going to grow and look just like the original of you...

i know its a very long way off but what to say thing like this wont come into effect in the future?

[LabRat]

Originally posted by Ertrael
here is an interesting thought for you...

What if we advanced enough for brain transplants?
then really, im not saying its morally right. But we could extend our life expectancy with this right? Once you reach say 50-60 have your brain transplanted into a clone of yourself. You keep all your memorys and everything you have learnt but your suddenly in a new body thats going to grow and look just like the original of you...

i know its a very long way off but what to say thing like this wont come into effect in the future?
An excellent idea.
I would like to move into a clone of myself who is 25-30 years old. But bloody hell I have no idea how to make my clone that is older me!
Do you have any thought?

[Ertrael]

I dont know how tbh, but im sure there is a way to speed up cell growth or something like that... the "host" may not last as long as you had hoped, but then again if only it was a clone, whats to say you couldn't just replace it after a few years?

[Indrid Cold]

Originally posted by Ertrael
here is an interesting thought for you...

What if we advanced enough for brain transplants?
then really, im not saying its morally right. But we could extend our life expectancy with this right? Once you reach say 50-60 have your brain transplanted into a clone of yourself. You keep all your memorys and everything you have learnt but your suddenly in a new body thats going to grow and look just like the original of you...

i know its a very long way off but what to say thing like this wont come into effect in the future?
Excellent idea! People would not die, they'd still live as young people once they grow old! And those poor people who lose their children due to accidents will be able to bring them back to life, by transplanting their brain into their clone's body! People would be practically immortal!

You really think this is a good idea? Imagine what it would do the planet's overpopulation. I'm not saying that having your grandfather or (worse) chlid die is something anyone should be happy about, but death is part of our lives. We need to accept that.

[Ertrael]

Well, i personally like the idea cause im scared of the idea of death.
But whats to say if we ever got to that point that some more serious form of birth control wouldnt be brought into effect to counter it?

[Indrid Cold]

Originally posted by Ertrael
Well, i personally like the idea cause im scared of the idea of death.
You need to come to grips with it, I'm sure you already know that. There's a huge distance between accepting death and not feeling sad about it.

[Ertrael]

Originally posted by Zalbor
You need to come to grips with it, I'm sure you already know that. There's a huge distance between accepting death and not feeling sad about it.
dont get me wrong, i accept its gonna happen. just scared of it thats all.. but if i could do something to make sure i never did die i would. theres so much i would love to learn or do and its impossible to do everything in a lifetime.

[Indrid Cold]

Originally posted by Ertrael
dont get me wrong, i accept its gonna happen. just scared of it thats all.. but if i could do something to make sure i never did die i would. theres so much i would love to learn or do and its impossible to do everything in a lifetime.
Believe me, I know what you mean about not being able to do everything. That's why you should do as much as you can in the time you are given (I wish I started listening to that advice...).

[Ertrael]

Originally posted by Zalbor
Believe me, I know what you mean about not being able to do everything. That's why you should do as much as you can in the time you are given (I wish I started listening to that advice...).
Not quite that easy though is it? not with a full time very demanding job etc..:p

[*DEVIL*]

Originally posted by LabRat
State has. Isn’t Democracy a modern God? If the majority thinks ‘there outta be law for apples to fall upward’ who can prevent this? Fuck that stupid Newton! Vox populi vox Dei or something like this, right?


No.
If you control the cloning you control the baby‘s genetic pattern. Or rather you control its inputs having no idea about outputs. That’s all. So what? You have not more control over its mind and life than its parents, relatives, friends, community, street, school, TV, local city council, Iraqi terrorists, National Party of Uruguay, The Ligule Of Papua Lesbians so on and on…
Honestly, I am.. how to say- embarrassed, surprised, shocked? How can people who pretend to be educated ( well, well… don’t grab my tongue … I meant state-school educated) believe in this clones-are-artificial-soldiers-emperor-slaves-creatures stupid stuff? Never heard about Genetics? Never take a single Biology lesson? Is this forum a pub filled with ignorant drunk redneck idiots who know about Genetics from tabloids only? What a bloody place I’ve got in?

I can see your point, a clone brought up in spain despite being cloned from a british citizen will still speak spanish.

Sorry i am rambling, but if we looked at the nature/nurture debate a little more closely we would see that a lot of behaviour is learned through life experience!

[Namaste]

Originally posted by LabRat

Honestly, I am.. how to say- embarrassed, surprised, shocked? How can people who pretend to be educated ( well, well… don’t grab my tongue … I meant state-school educated) believe in this clones-are-artificial-soldiers-emperor-slaves-creatures stupid stuff? Never heard about Genetics? Never take a single Biology lesson? Is this forum a pub filled with ignorant drunk redneck idiots who know about Genetics from tabloids only? What a bloody place I’ve got in?

To be honest we didn't learn about cloning and genetics at GCSE level, it comes in to A level biology... Now considering there are over 100 courses in my own college and in other colleges and not all of us study biology... we're bound to be ignorant on some things... but calling us 'ignorant' or 'rednecks'?

There always is the 'what if' idea to everything.

[LabRat]

Excuse me.
I used those words as a figure of speech.
I didn't mean anybody personally. Especially you.:)

[Blagsta]

You're a fine one to talk about ignorance. You seem to get your ideas about politics from the Beano.

[wheresmyplacebo]

im not looking forward to death, but it is a persons duty to pass on the world to the next generations... it the only real way to provide new ideas etc to the world

i think people are selfish in wanting to live no matter what, not that i want to die at 30, but everyone has their time, and well im comfortably saying im topping myself before i lose my mind and need to wear nappies again, and when i have some young grandbrats to pass my wisdom onto :p

[Namaste]

Originally posted by Blagsta
You're a fine one to talk about ignorance. You seem to get your ideas about politics from the Beano.
Me? :confused: