UKIP win in European Regional Elections

[girl with sharp teeth]

.

[Renzo]

Originally posted by girl with sharp teeth
BBC link (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3803505.stm)

So, the UKIP have beaten the Lib Dems into 3rd place and won a lot of former Labour and Tory voters over.

I'm officially scared for the mental health of this country.

As am I. The general public can be very arogant and idiotic.

On the plus side Kilroy will be buggering off :p Though its a bit hypocritical of him to do so....

[ladymuck]

All I said before is vindicated by Euro-vote

UK is in large part indifferent/resentful to the EU

We voted for a Common Market - -commerce not politocs

[Renzo]

Originally posted by ladymuck
All I said before is vindicated by Euro-vote

UK is in large part indifferent/resentful to the EU

We voted for a Common Market - -commerce not politocs

The UK needs to stop living in the past to be frank

[ladymuck]

Well you'd better tell them then

Maybe the past looks better than an EU future

[Renzo]

Originally posted by ladymuck
Well you'd better tell them then

Maybe the past looks better than an EU future

So you want to see Britain on its own in the world? Britain needs Europe to be a player on the world stage. Britain is no longer a super power. The 'celebrities' who support UKIP are all from a time where britain still had colonies, they still think Britain is like that. There views are very distorted.

[ladymuck]

There views are very distorted.

Yours aren't?

The arrogance of youth

[Renzo]

Originally posted by ladymuck
Yours aren't?

The arrogance of youth

I dont see how my views are distorted, i merely support the idea of the EU

and how dare you call me arrogant! There are people out there who dont know *anything* about what is going on and they dont want to know they just are warped by the tabloids. They are the arrogrant ones.

[ladymuck]

and how dare you call me arrogant!

:D :rolleyes:

[*DEVIL*]

Respected rejected :p

I personally was pleased with UKIP, they are not a racist party, they reflect the attitude of many people, especially when i say in the plymouth area UKIP were top!

Robert Kilroy Silk has gained the support of many people who disagreed with the Knee Jerk, Politically Correct reaction from the BBC. As have UKIP as a whole gained votes down here due to the fact that people do not want a dictatorship anymore with a prime minister who likes to lick an arse of Bush!

If UKIP were so wrong and so racist why did they do so well? QUICK POLICE:::::::: :eek: racists loose!!!! IN BRITAIN!!!!!!

[*DEVIL*]

Celebrating his victory, Mr Kilroy-Silk said: "Now we know why the British public are fed up with the old parties. They are fed up with being talked to in that simplistic manner.

"They want their country back from Brussels and we are going to get it back for them."

To add they want a party who thinks of the people rather than themselves!

The peoples very own party!

[JsT]

UKIP also picked up one seat in Yorkshire from the Tories.

The best thing in my opinion is that the BNP picked up very little in the way of voting - same as the local elections last week.

[Man Of Kent]

Originally posted by *DEVIL*
If UKIP were so wrong and so racist why did they do so well?

Because people want to register a protest at what they see in European politics and don't feel that their usual party reflects this.

If you are a Labour supporters but are Euro sceptic would you vote for "the old enemy" or vote for a pary with little power in the UK generally?

Even with 15% of votes cast across the country, that means that only 6/100 people actually voted for them. Do you seriously believe that the same would apply in a General Election?

QUICK POLICE:::::::: :eek: racists loose!!!! IN BRITAIN!!!!!!

I don't know about calling the police, but I'm not proud that there are racists loose in the UK. We should be ashamed that there are people who base their opinions of people, cultures and politics on skin colour.

[*DEVIL*]

Originally posted by girl with sharp teeth
BBC link (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3803505.stm)

So, the UKIP have beaten the Lib Dems into 3rd place and won a lot of former Labour and Tory voters over.

I'm officially scared for the mental health of this country.

Thats Democracy, it is what the people want, if you would rather a dictatorship go to Zimbabwe, i am sure they will welcome you with open arms!

[*DEVIL*]

Originally posted by Man Of Kent
We should be ashamed that there are people who base their opinions of people, cultures and politics on skin colour.

Yeah Panorama showed that last night didnt it.

KILROY "Stop calling us OTHERS"

[Man Of Kent]

Originally posted by *DEVIL*
Yeah Panorama showed that last night didnt it.

Didn't watch it.

But your comments certainly show that there are racists in this country. Sadly you seem to think that it is okay for you to be racist because there are racist blacks, muslims, hindus etc.

It isn't. It's never okay. I condemn them as strongly as I condemn you.

[Renzo]

Originally posted by *DEVIL*
Thats Democracy, it is what the people want, if you would rather a dictatorship go to Zimbabwe, i am sure they will welcome you with open arms!

Bit lame comparing the democray with Zimbabwe. Anyway with the way we are heading now with the Tories, UKIP and BNP i wouldnt be suprised if we went that way :rolleyes:

[Man Of Kent]

Originally posted by *DEVIL*
if you would rather a dictatorship go to Zimbabwe

or vote BNP...

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by ladymuck
Yours aren't?

The arrogance of youth

Well according to your profile you're only 28. :rolleyes:

[Man Of Kent]

Originally posted by Blagsta
Well according to your profile you're only 28. :rolleyes:

A mere child then...

[marv]

But i think the problem is that they is little in the way of education on the EU.

Where were the pro Euroepans i dont think that i heard much on them during the run up to the elections

I havent looked at the results yet has Kilroy got himself a seat?

[Man Of Kent]

Originally posted by marv
I havent looked at the results yet has Kilroy got himself a seat?

Yes. But he doesn't plan on attending very often. He seems to think that this sends a message. Personally I agree with him, the message it sends is that the Parliament can pass anything because he and his cronies won't vote against it...

I agree with you about the education aspect too.. It is easy, in the UK, to find anti-Europe propaganda, but not pro-Europe. Although I am anti- I think that this is a situation which needs rectifying, I just don't know how when the media are so biased that they wouldn't give any positive stories equal prominence...

[Citizen_Bertie]

UKIP. What a bunch of hypocrites.

"We oppose all these fat balding EMPs in Brussels who sit around doing nothing and getting paid huge salaries by the tax payers....

Actually....

That sounds quite good. Yeah sign us up for that one! Vote UKIP in the European elections!":rolleyes:

[Man Of Kent]

Originally posted by Citizen_Bertie
UKIP. What a bunch of hypocrites.

"We oppose all these fat balding EMPs in Brussels who sit around doing nothing and getting paid huge salaries by the tax payers....


Nah, not hypocrites, there is a difference.

The UKIP EMPs won't in Brusselssitting around doing nothing and getting paid huge salaries by the tax payers...

Their website is hilarious... apparently they want to give us the "freedom from overcrowding". A problem which this country doesn't actually have. If you look at the fact we actually have more space per capita than most other countries.

I also love their intention to give us back the freedom of speech, which we have appreantly lost. Not sure where or when, but it's gone...

[Aladdin]

Less than 20% of the electorate have voted for the party that wants to take Britain out of Europe.

More than 80% of the electorate want to stay in the EU then.

No big deal.

[Man Of Kent]

Originally posted by Aladdin
Less than 20% of the electorate have voted for the party that wants to take Britain out of Europe.

More than 80% of the electorate want to stay in the EU then.

No big deal.

Not even that. Less than 20% of those who voted and turnout was 40%.

I make that about 5% of the population are enthusiastic enough to get off their assess and vote against Europe. 35% voted "in favour" (although the Tories would deny this) and 60% are just apathetic.

Either way, the apathetic vote wins, and they would be arsed about that either...

[Renzo]

God, just saw Kilroy on the news. How the hell can people physically vote for his party. He is such a slimey bastard

'what are you going to do to the eu parliament'

'wreck it'

I dont often say this about someone, but he is a ****

[ladymuck]

I've heard turnout in the new accession states was v. low, no great enthusiasm even from them

Give us a referendum on staying in EU, it's deserved after all last referendum was about staying in the Common Market

[The Matadore]

No big deal.

What a load of utter rubbish, of course it is a big deal.

Blair now no longer has the mandate to accept the European Constitution and he will not win any referendum on it.

The UKIP have become the 3rd biggest British party in the European parliament, displacing the Lib Dems, this seems like a big deal to most people.

The British people do not want national sovereignity eroded, they want to be governed by representatives THEY elect and who sit in the House of Commens and put Britains interests first.

You cannot say the EU will put Britains interests first, can you?

[ladymuck]

God, just saw Kilroy on the news. How the hell can people physically vote for his party. He is such a slimey bastard

a very popular man, your judgement is , again, askew

[Rocksteady]

Perhaps if people could hold Europe more directly to account there would not be the same distrust of the Brussles government?

Is anyone here who is pro Europe not worried that you cannot effectively hold the MEP's to account, most of which do not even speak your own language?

I was also quite taken back that the news did not mention much about the swing in the European parliament for surely this is important as to assertain its political stance with regard new legislation?

I was looking over the election results and noticed something quite shocking. Europe is not divided democratically into fair electoral boundaries. While the Scotch only have 7 European parliament seats for an electorate population of 3877194 the Republic of Ireland has 13 seats for an electorate of 2836596. This is also true of the new assention countries. N. Ireland has 3 seats for an electorate of 1191307 while Estonia has 6 seats for a smaller electorate of 1067430 & Latvia 9 seats for an electorate of 1399795....

Did anyone here know this was happening never mind the general public & does anyone know why this is?

[Renzo]

Originally posted by ladymuck
a very popular man, your judgement is , again, askew

I fail to see how people can ever support him. He is a rascist and an all round up his own arse git.

[Rocksteady]

Do you also fail to see how people can support terriorists?

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by ladymuck
a very popular man, your judgement is , again, askew

Westlife are popular. Doesn't mean they're any good though, does it?

[ladymuck]

Westlife are popular. Doesn't mean they're any good though, does it?

Again , Blagsta another astoundingly irrelevant comment as a way of avoiding answering any questions. Well done

[Blagsta]

Aaaah, all you can do now is to copy my posts. Well they say that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. :o

But my point was relevant - just made in a lighthearted way. Its not my fault if you're too daft to work it out.

[Rocksteady]

Blagsta are the rest of us White or something?

Ladymuck are the rest of us Black or something?



:rolleyes:

[ladymuck]

Did anyone here know this was happening never mind the general public & does anyone know why this is?

the general public have up to now, known litlle of EU and cared even less.

maybe UKIP coming into equation will change that

Kilroy is quite a housewives choice but to you Renzokuken he is slimy.

Damn that general public , take their vote away

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by Rocksteady
Blagsta are the rest of us White or something?

Ladymuck are the rest of us Black or something?



:rolleyes:

What? :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by ladymuck
Damn that general public , take their vote away

What? :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

[ladymuck]

it was a dig against Renzokuken's griping obviously

[Blagsta]

Well obviously didn't have that affect did it?
Do you ever say anything remotely sensible? :confused:

[Renzo]

Originally posted by ladymuck
the general public have up to now, known litlle of EU and cared even less.

maybe UKIP coming into equation will change that

Kilroy is quite a housewives choice but to you Renzokuken he is slimy.

Damn that general public , take their vote away

His views of the EU though are just going to warp the views of those who dont know anything about it. Housewives choice my arse. I think a lot of the British public need there heads looked into :rolleyes:

[ladymuck]

I think a lot of the British public need there heads looked into

Yes, I'd start with arrogant, headstrong young students who care not a fig for the opinions of others

[The Matadore]

was looking over the election results and noticed something quite shocking. Europe is not divided democratically into fair electoral boundaries

Yeah well, since when was the EU democratic?

[Renzo]

Originally posted by ladymuck
Yes, I'd start with arrogant, headstrong young students who care not a fig for the opinions of others

So you are proud that 20% of the electorate voted for a TOTALLY HYPOCRITICAL party in the name of UKIP going to stand in the EU parlimeant they stand against. Britain can not function without being in the EU. I take back my arguments for PR i put forward the other day.

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by ladymuck
who care not a fig for the opinions of others

Anyone spot the hypocrisy?

[Renzo]

Originally posted by The Matadore
Yeah well, since when was the EU democratic?

Its getting there, the parliament is getting more power in this constitution.

[ladymuck]

Britain can not function without being in the EU. I take back my arguments for PR i put forward the other day

Jawohl

[marv]

UKIP are out to damage the EU as an organisation

I mean I don’t understand his thinking it is all well and good to expose the corruption in the EU. I already know that they is widespread corruption in the EU. However then again they are in every institution on the planet. Read Private Eye and you would come to the conclusion that any form of Government be it local, National or Supranational are going to have layers of corruption.

Also if I was going to chose someone to rid something of corruption it would not be Robert Kilroy-Silk. He has always given me the impression of being a slimy toad of man. (A perfect candidate for a politician then )

Another thing that pisses me off about the UKIP is the way that they don’t understand that the sovereignty was given to the EU not been taken by the EU under duress. Sovereignty has been given to the EU because 25 states working together on some issues are more effective then a single state.

Take environment what would be the point of 1 state having really strict legislation when its neighbour has fuck all environmental legislation; it's better for everyone if they work together.

Also Globalisation means that the world's economy is charging and they is an argument that the old nation states such as the UK will have increasing difficulties in they economies. The US is basically a fucking continent same goes to Russia. China and India both have huge populations we can’t deal with them on an equal footing as an individual state we need to super size to.

Rant over :)

[Man Of Kent]

Originally posted by The Matadore
Blair now no longer has the mandate to accept the European Constitution

Why not?

This wasn't a referendum on the constitution even if that's what people voted for. Nothing in this election changes the national govt and Blair can continue on his merry way with the huge majority in parliament.

That's what annoys me about the voters in this country. I don't mind who people vote for, that is their choice. It does worry me why they vote though. How many people actually voted on the issues facing the parliament they were electing - whether that was Europe or Local?

And how many were voicing a protest against the standnig Govt?

I'd say that the latter refelects a large proportion, and it has been seen time and time again in mid-term elections.

The UKIP have become the 3rd biggest British party in the European parliament, displacing the Lib Dems, this seems like a big deal to most people.

Personally, I think that we are analysing this too much. Protest vote, little more. People know that it will not have too much of an adverse effect on their day-to-day lives and so can vote for anyone. It's why the Greens score so high in these elections too...

The British people do not want national sovereignity eroded, they want to be governed by representatives THEY elect and who sit in the House of Commens and put Britains interests first.

I wouldn't go that far because only 40% of the public voted, and then only 15% of those voted for UKIP. That's about 5% of the population.

Even if, as the Tories would argue, the conservative vote should be counted, they only polled 30% of votes cast. That's another 10% of the population actually cast a vote for them.

So your "The British People" comment, only relfelcts thewishes of 15% of the population.

Hardly representative, is it?

You cannot say the EU will put Britains interests first, can you?

Nope, and it's one of the reasons why I would vote against EU integration and one of the reasons why I am anti-EU in some many ways.

But I'm not blinkered enough to think that the majority of my countrymen think the same.

[Simbelyne]

(This is my first post in a long time... Hello all!)

I was glad to see New Labour get a beating in the Local and Regional elections, but the manner in which it was given is an atrocious condemnation of PR. In a system where you vote purely for a party, not a candidate, it seems many were swayed simply by the power of celebrity. Kilroy, a self-professed racist and backward looking dinosaur who believes that because of Britains imperial past it is allowed to stick two fingers up to the EU polled a credible portion of the vote almost by himself. This shows how dangerous it can be to have an electoral system that focuses on a top down rather than bottom up approach.

On the other hand I was glad to see my Green MEP, Caroline Lucas reelected even if she only achieved a small rise in her percentage of the vote.

[Renzo]

Originally posted by Simbelyne
(This is my first post in a long time... Hello all!)

I was glad to see New Labour get a beating in the Local and Regional elections, but the manner in which it was given is an atrocious condemnation of PR. In a system where you vote purely for a party, not a candidate, it seems many were swayed simply by the power of celebrity. Kilroy, a self-professed racist and backward looking dinosaur who believes that because of Britains imperial past it is allowed to stick two fingers up to the EU polled a credible portion of the vote almost by himself. This shows how dangerous it can be to have an electoral system that focuses on a top down rather than bottom up approach.

On the other hand I was glad to see my Green MEP, Caroline Lucas reelected even if she only achieved a small rise in her percentage of the vote.

Welcome back :)

I take it you are in the South East region too then :(

as in:( at 'our' representatives, not :( that you live in the same region as me

[ladymuck]

who believes that because of Britains imperial past it is allowed to stick two fingers up to the EU polled a credible portion of the vote almost by himself. This

What are you on about? How about the simple idea that a fair chunk of the population don't like the EU

This shows how dangerous it can be to have an electoral system that focuses on a top down rather than bottom up approach.

People vote for a variety of reasons, Kilroy gave UKIP a celeb push, are you annoyed it worked?

All parties drag out celebs when possible

[marv]

What are you on about? How about the simple idea that a fair chunk of the population don't like the EU

But does the British people know anything bout the EU? Wasnt it Aladdin who made the point that 75% of the population didnt read the constitution. This shows that people are have not been educated about the EU and its role.

[Rocksteady]

"I wouldn't go that far because only 40% of the public voted, and then only 15% of those voted for UKIP. That's about 5% of the population.

Even if, as the Tories would argue, the conservative vote should be counted, they only polled 30% of votes cast. That's another 10% of the population actually cast a vote for them.

So your "The British People" comment, only relfelcts thewishes of 15% of the population."


So under your system we should abdicate 60% of our European seats because the majority of the population quite frankly dont give a shit?

If so many of the people do not understand Europe is it not a good thing that the minority who do understand come out and vote?

Lastly, the Tories are also very Euro Sceptic and would almost withdraw from Europe, at least they claim they would not sign up to anything new. With the combination of the Euro Sceptic voters they easily make up over 50% of the electorate. Does that not erode any mandate Blair claims to have very significantly?

[marv]

If so many of the people do not understand Europe is it not a good thing that the minority who do understand come out and vote?

But do the people that vote understand the EU or is it due to something else such as using they democratic right.

My mother voted even though she would be the first to admit she doesnt understand how the EU works. She voted because she believes that people should.

[Man Of Kent]

Originally posted by Rocksteady
So under your system we should abdicate 60% of our European seats because the majority of the population quite frankly dont give a shit?

No, what I am saying is that more than 50% of the elctorate don't care enough to want a change. Basically they are saying that they are happy with the status quo and this shouldn't be discounted when you are arguing that this election offers a mandate one way or another.

If so many of the people do not understand Europe is it not a good thing that the minority who do understand come out and vote?

It's a good thing if everyone comes out and votes, not just those who "understand" the issues.

Everyone will form a decision based on their own understanding and it's not possible to argue that anyone has a "true" understanding.

Lastly, the Tories are also very Euro Sceptic and would almost withdraw from Europe, at least they claim they would not sign up to anything new. With the combination of the Euro Sceptic voters they easily make up over 50% of the electorate. Does that not erode any mandate Blair claims to have very significantly?

I think I covered this. 60% of the electorate didn't vote at all. Even if you lump the UKIP and Tory votes toegther you would still end up with less than 50% of votes cast (I think it was about 45%) so in either event the public has not given a mandate for withdrawl from Europe.

Besides people weren't just voting on those grounds - not all LibDem votes will be pro-Europe, not all Tories are anti, and only a referendum would give a true indication of public feeling.

[Rocksteady]

"more than 50% of the elctorate don't care enough to want a change."

That is not true. I know plenty of people who do not vote simply because they do not understand the issues, they do not believe in the democratic system, they are too busy with work, they are religious fundamentalists and again do not believe in the democratic system, they are anarchists and want to bring down the whole establishment etc etc There are many reasons for not voting.

The majority of people are not happy with the current government and if they were happy they would have come out and supported them to ensure that their mandate was not taken by other parties.

"It's a good thing if everyone comes out and votes, not just those who "understand" the issues."

Do you agree that those who oppose the EU and those who are pro European come out to vote even if they really do not understand what they are voting about?

Would you encourage those who have little understanding of politics to vote even if they voted for the extreme left and right wing parties in our society?

"Even if you lump the UKIP and Tory votes toegther you would still end up with less than 50% of votes cast "

Well for a start their combined number of MEP's is 39 and that is more than Labour, The Greens, The Liberals, The Scottish Nationals and Plaid Cymru all put toegether. Then you must consider I did not narrow my point to the Tories and UKIP but Euro Sceptic voters. So then you have to add to the Euro Sceptics the 3 Euro Sceptic MEP's voted in for N. Ireland; Sinn Fein, Ulster Unionist & DUP. Then you must also add on all the other Euro Sceptic parties who did not get an MEP and you will find that easily Euro Sceptics took over 50% share of the electorate.

[Man Of Kent]

Originally posted by Rocksteady
That is not true. I know plenty of people who do not vote simply because they do not understand the issues, they do not believe in the democratic system, they are too busy with work, they are religious fundamentalists and again do not believe in the democratic system, they are anarchists and want to bring down the whole establishment etc etc There are many reasons for not voting.

If you care enough about an issue you would

Try to understand the issues
Use the system avaiable to have your voice heard - whether you are fundamentalist or anarchist. Oh, out of interest, which religion is anti voting?
Find time, inspite of work. Sorry but that is the lamest excuse ever. Firstly it takes at mnost 30 minutes from a day to visit a polling station which is open for more than 12 hours. If you sill cannot find time then you can vote through the post or by proxy.

What you mean is that there are many excuses for not voting, but you wouldn't need an excuse if you cared enough.

Apathy is the reason people don't vote.

The majority of people are not happy with the current government and if they were happy they would have come out and supported them to ensure that their mandate was not taken by other parties.

Do you have something to back up your claim that the majority of people are unhappy with the Govt?

If people are truly unhappy, wouldn't they vote against them, rather than stay at home? Or rather, wouldn't it be better to vote against them. Staying at home is, as I said, a vote for the status quo.

Do you agree that those who oppose the EU and those who are pro European come out to vote even if they really do not understand what they are voting about?

Yes. Do you think that each of those groups have a full grasp of the issues then?

Would you encourage those who have little understanding of politics to vote even if they voted for the extreme left and right wing parties in our society?

Yep. It's called exercising a democratic right. You don't have to understand the issue to register a vote. If you think that is wrong then you have missed the basic principles of democracy.

Well for a start their combined number of MEP's is 39 and that is more than Labour, The Greens, The Liberals, The Scottish Nationals and Plaid Cymru all put toegether.

So, 45% of the vote gives you more than 50% of the seats? Not very democratic wouldn't you say?

Then you must consider I did not narrow my point to the Tories and UKIP but Euro Sceptic voters.

But you still include the Tories. If I am not mistaken they still want to be part of Europe, even if they think it has gone a little further than they would want.

Also worth noting that not all Tories are anti-Europe and so you cannot assume that they were voting on a EuroSkeptic forum...

[Simbelyne]

Originally posted by ladymuck
What are you on about? How about the simple idea that a fair chunk of the population don't like the EU

Because they think it is limiting a country they still believe to be an imperial superpower who can blithely ignore the EU's attempts at European co-operation. The point is they don't like the EU because they are living in a past that enables them to be racist, arrogant imperialists.

Originally posted by ladymuck

People vote for a variety of reasons, Kilroy gave UKIP a celeb push, are you annoyed it worked?

All parties drag out celebs when possible


Yes, I am annoyed it gave them extra votes, that was my point. Celebrities should not be allowed to endorse political parties as if they were a brand of shaving foam.

[ladymuck]

The point is they don't like the EU because they are living in a past that enables them to be racist, arrogant imperialists.

You been at Mao's ltlle red book again?

Celebrities should not be allowed to endorse political parties as if they were a brand of shaving foam.

voting public can, if it wishes ignore such an endorsement

Anything endorsed by Mick hucknal, Ben Elton, Billy bragg must be a pile of poo so I'd vote as far away as possible

[Blagsta]

So you make political judgements based on who or who hasn't endorsed a particular party?
Makes sense I s'pose, its about your level.