Should I go?

[lukesh]

If more than 50% saysYes then I'll do you all a favour and resign lol. You can kick out this racist, homophbic git out of the forums for good.

[ladymuck]

i shouldn't worry about a few prissy PC twits, it'll be good for you to be here, you can sharpen up your debating skills:)

[BumbleBee]

Grow up Lukesh.

[The Doc]

Don't these usually occur in Anything Goes?

[Whowhere]

Usuall they do, yes.
Luke, stop being a twat and asking us if we think you should leave. If you really wanted to go then you would.
A better idea instead would be to actually read up on a topic before posting about it.
Buy some encyclopedias, visit some official websites. As good a papers as they may be, you cannot count on the daily mail or the sun for an unbiased view on the situation in this country.

The stuff they print about the criminal justice system in this country for instance, it's all bollocks. The speed camera thing, they make out that people hate them! The police in Nottingham are recieving letters and emails asking for more of them because drivers aren't getting the message.
Instead of relying on the tabloids, use your own judgement and find sources that are worthy of being quoted as unbiased, because the sun and the mail, frankly are not.

And stop asking us for our opinion in you, we're not asking that you change you political ideals, by all means be right wing. I'm a conservative supporter and I always will be. However I'm not far right to the extreme that I let newspapers dictate my views to me and believe the propaganda from them or the political parties.

[Aspartame]

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

How many times will it take for you to even try to understand?

All that people want is reputable sources (if they ask, that is) to back up facts and just a bit of reasoning for opinions.

Don't moronically brand people as anti-English/anti-American because they disagree with the decisions of the government of the stated country.
I remember you even called the BBC anti-English...

Just think before you post. It's not particularly hard.

[crossfire]

if you want to sharpen your debating skills come over to this forum debating practice (www.che-lives.com) you'll be restrcted but me and the commies can tear you apartin debates. Mainly cause in this forum it's not often people answer eack part of a post separately and demolish it.

[Captain Slog]

Don´t go! This forum won´t be as much fun with less people annoying the lefties.

[Rocksteady]

Luke you should leave because you are wasting your time arguing with people here and they neither respect your opinion nor are they open minded enough to ever consider any of your opnions.

If the few right wingers who roamed this forum did leave there would be no one left for the lefties to argue with, perhaps they then would be able to turn off their computers and experience the real world for a change?

[*DEVIL*]

Originally posted by Rocksteady
Luke you should leave because you are wasting your time arguing with people here and they neither respect your opinion nor are they open minded enough to ever consider any of your opnions.

If the few right wingers who roamed this forum did leave there would be no one left for the lefties to argue with, perhaps they then would be able to turn off their computers and experience the real world for a change?

I agree with most of that, apart from the leaving part, why let several nasty bullies, bully YOU out of a FORUM that you enjoy, why segregate YOU from this place, by doing show you just give into their pathetic immature bully tactics, dont let them discriminate against you, after all thats what they most dislike.

Stay here and argue your points, you have as much right if not more to stay, after all you do not swear, use abusive language or bully tactics to exclude others!

Stay here Lukesh (if you really do feel you have been bullied and are not welcome report the posts to the mods!)

xxx:)

[Aspartame]

Originally posted by *DEVIL*
I agree with most of that, apart from the leaving part, why let several nasty bullies, bully YOU out of a FORUM that you enjoy, why segregate YOU from this place, by doing show you just give into their pathetic immature bully tactics, dont let them discriminate against you, after all thats what they most dislike.

Stay here and argue your points, you have as much right if not more to stay, after all you do not swear, use abusive language or bully tactics to exclude others!

Stay here Lukesh (if you really do feel you have been bullied and are not welcome report the posts to the mods!)

xxx:)

I thought people were quite tolerant, well with the exception of about one.

If someone says something stupid, as is the norm for Luke, then that person will be told as much.
I'm sure you can see what I mean...

[Tweety]

Wheres the i don't really care button?
If you like it here stay, simple really. I don't really know you but from the little time i have read politics & debate the only advise is have more of an openminded & be prepared to say when you are wrong.

[crossfire]

people tend to get angry when someone tries to incite racial hatred, spout racist and fascist rubbish over the forum.

[lukesh]

the bit above, if thats what i do best then i best not be here.

thanks for the replies. I have decided to go my self. I know 99% of you don't give too toots just saves you wondering where Iam.

Sorry if I have been racist in any sort of way, been homophobic etc.

Bye then people, same we couldn't have at least one nice talk, I have made a few friends on here! bye and tara!

hey moderator, delete my username.

[Uncle Joe]

Originally posted by lukesh
If more than 50% saysYes then I'll do you all a favour and resign lol. You can kick out this racist, homophbic git out of the forums for good.
Does somebody need a hug?

[The Doc]

Originally posted by crossfire
people tend to get angry when someone tries to incite racial hatred, spout racist and fascist rubbish over the forum.

Are people repressing your communist views again? :(

[Mist]

This is hardly a "debate" is it.

[BeckyBoo]

Originally posted by lukesh
I have decided to go my self. I know 99% of you don't give too toots just saves you wondering where Iam.



I never had you down as a quitter, infact quite the opposite. I think i know what your problem is and its the fact that you 'rush' in with your posts instead of taking it slowly, your doing what i used to do.
Take time with your posts (if it could be a contravercial point of view), read what you have written and 'think' more about wether it actually reads how you want it to read.

Do what you want to do, your choice at the end of the day. I personally wouldnt let a couple of people make you leave........................stay and fight your argument/debate :D

[Dear Wendy]

I think you should stay.

[CheeseOnToast]

I voted Yes just to be mean.

[morrocan roll]

cup of tea and a biscuit anyone?

[Renzo]

I have abstained

[crossfire]

Originally posted by the doc horatio
Are people repressing your communist views again? :(

no, i don't think this forum could actually have an educated debate about communism, i doubt mnay have read the communist manifesto or das kapital or just understand the theory. But, natrually racist and fascist views are in direct opposition to communism.

[Aspartame]

Originally posted by crossfire
no, i don't think this forum could actually have an educated debate about communism, i doubt mnay have read the communist manifesto or das kapital or just understand the theory. But, natrually racist and fascist views are in direct opposition to communism.

Have you tried starting a thread on it? I must confess to not knowing much about it, eager to learn, though.

Now that Luke has gone, we're going to miss intelligent debate.

[Dear Wendy]

Originally posted by crossfire
But, natrually racist and fascist views are in direct opposition to communism.

In theory maybe...

[morrocan roll]

Originally posted by Jacqueline the Ripper
In theory maybe... yes ...i'm sure there are many eatern europeans and jews who suffered terribly under the commies.

[Dear Wendy]

Originally posted by morrocan roll
yes ...i'm sure there are many eatern europeans and jews who suffered terribly under the commies.

My grandfather fled from Poland under WW2 due to his Jewish heritage. He had denounced his religion way before that.
He came back after the war, and supported the communist regime.
My dad remembers the communist manifesto on their bookcase at home.
And my granddad served at the Polish (communist) army as a major in the airforce.
At one point he was approached by the state of Israel, asked to serve there, and he declined being that he was against religion and anything connected to it whatsoever. Especially his Judaism.

By the time my dad was 18, they had to flee Poland, due to the antisemitism. My dad had already suffered from antisemitism in school by his teachers, giving him low grades undeserved (my dad is a genius - no shit. One of the brightest people you'll ever meet). But going to university was completely out of the question as a Jew.

For the second time in his life, my granddad had to flee due to his religion, which he never expressed or had any feelings towards in any way.

So yes, go communism - who's obviously racist, and who obviously hasn't done the world any good.
Just look at Stalin who killed more people than Hitler.

[morrocan roll]

safest and most sensible place to be is in the middle ...

[Dear Wendy]

Not necessarily... Just that extremes are what cause the problems.

[morrocan roll]

Originally posted by Jacqueline the Ripper
Not necessarily... Just that extremes are what cause the problems. pretty difficult to be an extemist centrist though surely

[Renzo]

Originally posted by morrocan roll
pretty difficult to be an extemist centrist though surely

its like wanting clothes in extra medium :D

[CheeseOnToast]

lol

[Dear Wendy]

True.
But the centre (in all issues) is often known as gutless, and as a stand for cowards.

You can take a stand, without being extreme with it, I think.

Then again, you need a thesis, and an antithesis, to create a hypothesis.

[morrocan roll]

Originally posted by Jacqueline the Ripper


Then again, you need a thesis, and an antithesis, to create a hypothesis. while you sort that out ...i'll put the kettle on.

[Dear Wendy]

Bring some camomille tea as well :p

[CheeseOnToast]

yeah, special tea.. ;)

[morrocan roll]

Originally posted by CheeseOnToast
yeah, special tea.. ;) very special tea?

[Dear Wendy]

Special tea?

[katchika]

Don't know if you have left yet, but if not, I don't think you should leave. However, I'm not going to reply to any of your posts anymore because however much I have tried to give a balanced and somewhat informed opinion, your views never seem to shift.

I don't want to waste my effort anymore.

[xicoperez]

Originally posted by Jacqueline the Ripper
So yes, go communism - who's obviously racist, and who obviously hasn't done the world any good.
Just look at Stalin who killed more people than Hitler.

:no: Here we go again...

[xicoperez]

Originally posted by crossfire
if you want to sharpen your debating skills come over to this forum debating practice (www.che-lives.com) you'll be restrcted but me and the commies can tear you apartin debates. Mainly cause in this forum it's not often people answer eack part of a post separately and demolish it.

I have just been looking at that link. The first thing I see is censorship...

This is what it say on one of the sections:

Only forum where right-wingers, cappies, stalinists and other misguided individuals are allowed to post. *No Nazi trash*

So if they can't post in the other ones where is the freedom for all?

[Man Of Kent]

Originally posted by xicoperez
:no: Here we go again...

Are you denying these comments then?

[xicoperez]

Originally posted by Man Of Kent
Are you denying these comments then?

As I have have done time and time again, since I've been a member here... But not again.

[Man Of Kent]

Originally posted by xicoperez
As I have have done time and time again, since I've been a member here... But not again.

Kind of difficult to deny that Stalin killed a shedload of people isn't it? Or that racism is just as prevalent in communist countries?

Or is it the denial of the USSR as a communist country at all...?

[Aladdin]

Just rejoined from a weekend away and Luke is gone...

Are you really gone Luke?

Well, I must say it is highly suspicious to me that you do your disappearing act just after the local and European elections come to pass.

If you're really who you claim you are then I believe you would stay and continue to give your opinion on things- something you have been very prolific at, though crucially regarding 2 issues mostly.

Maybe my initial suspicions are true after all and you're not the 16 year old kid interested in politics you claim to be, but a political spammer for a certain party or political leaning...

[xicoperez]

Originally posted by Man Of Kent
Kind of difficult to deny that Stalin killed a shedload of people isn't it? Or that racism is just as prevalent in communist countries?

Or is it the denial of the USSR as a communist country at all...?

Sorry MOK, it just gets boring after a while...

One day you decide to make a cake. You read you cookery book: Ingredients: eggs, flour, milk and sugar. But you use eggs, potatoes, olive oil and salt. And you tell everyone it is a cake...

Everyone believes you. Even chefs (historians). And they say that cakes should be sweet, and this one isn't. That shows that the theory will never work.

As I said, it gets boring when you have to explain the differences between a cake and a Spanish omelette...

P.S. Dear Moderators, I am very sorry for comparing Spanish omelettes with Stalinism. I'd understand being banned. I'm pretty sure Aladdín will ask you to do so.

[ShyBoy]

Originally posted by Aladdin
Maybe my initial suspicions are true after all and you're not the 16 year old kid interested in politics you claim to be, but a political spammer for a certain party or political leaning...

You're quite the detective! :D I personally think you should all vote labour! :p I mean, who else is there? :confused: [/mind control]

[ShyBoy]

Originally posted by xicoperez
Sorry MOK, it just gets boring after a while...

One day you decide to make a cake. You read you cookery book: Ingredients: eggs, flour, milk and sugar. But you use eggs, potatoes, olive oil and salt. And you tell everyone it is a cake...

Everyone believes you. Even chefs (historians). And they say that cakes should be sweet, and this one isn't. That shows that the theory will never work.

As I said, it gets boring when you have to explain the differences between a cake and a Spanish omelette...

P.S. Dear Moderators, I am very sorry for comparing Spanish omelettes with Stalinism. I'd understand being banned. I'm pretty sure Aladdín will ask you to do so.

Why must you talk about foooood? :( I'm so hungry! And what's the non-violent form of communism? Not meaning to be going up the same tree, but look at China, Russia, Cuba and just about everywhere where communism has gone, there's been a violent coup. Can't they just sit down and talk about things? :p

[Blagsta]

Where's the non-violent form of capitalism?

[xicoperez]

Originally posted by TheShyBoyInTheCorner
And what's the non-violent form of communism?

Originally posted by Blagsta
Where's the non-violent form of capitalism?

Bingo!

If you look at the receipe of cakes and Spanish omelettes you will find eggs in both and: [insert common expression about breaking eggs].

You also use eggs to make pies (capitalism). That reminds me of something someone said: "In Europe you use shampoo for dogs with eggs in it. In Africa there are children that have never tasted an egg before.

P.S. "I'm so hungry!" Just thought I'd rub it in. :p

[crossfire]

So if they can't post in the other ones where is the freedom for all? [/B][/QUOTE]

The cappies just ban us from their boards, we let cappies stay in a restricted place so we can debate. They would spam the board like they are doing at CGLM

[Dear Wendy]

xico, how can so many regimes have tried to re-create communism, and failed? Or ended up with the worlds fastes growing economy, like China? Now that isn't very communist, as it bounds in market-economy.

I do beleive that there has been a want to create a flawless society which is by some believed to be communism, but to keep on with your cake, the ingredient for that is un-existant.
In whichever way you twist or turn it, human has the survival of the fittest instinct, we're created to want more.

[xicoperez]

Originally posted by Jacqueline the Ripper
xico, how can so many regimes have tried to re-create communism, and failed? Or ended up with the worlds fastes growing economy, like China? Now that isn't very communist, as it bounds in market-economy.

That is part of the Permanent Revolution. There are revolutions and counter-revoulutions. A revolution takes us three steps ahead and the counter-revolution takes us two steps back. Looking at history you can see that we are going the right (left) way.

Originally posted by Jacqueline the Ripper
we're created to want more.

And that is exactly why I am a communist, and that is why I will carry on with the task others failed on. And I'll never show my contempt with this corrupt system of capitalism. Precisly because I want more.

[xicoperez]

Originally posted by crossfire
The cappies just ban us from their boards, we let cappies stay in a restricted place so we can debate. They would spam the board like they are doing at CGLM

I have been here for two years now. And I am still here.

[Aspartame]

The killing of dissidents is always a bit ropey...

[xicoperez]

Originally posted by Aspartame
The killing of dissidents is always a bit ropey...

But you'd find that in a tortilla, not a cake...

You also find it quite often in a pie...

[*DEVIL*]

Originally posted by Aladdin
Just rejoined from a weekend away and Luke is gone...

Are you really gone Luke?

Well, I must say it is highly suspicious to me that you do your disappearing act just after the local and European elections come to pass.

If you're really who you claim you are then I believe you would stay and continue to give your opinion on things- something you have been very prolific at, though crucially regarding 2 issues mostly.

Maybe my initial suspicions are true after all and you're not the 16 year old kid interested in politics you claim to be, but a political spammer for a certain party or political leaning...

:lol:

:lol:

:lol:

[marv]

Soviet Union Communism is based on the ideas of Lenin who adapted them from Marx. I would argue that Communism which we saw developed in Russia, China and Cuba is not true Communism.

I base this argument on the fact that Lenin when he seized power with the Bolsheviks in 1917, Russia was not an industrialised country and still had a large agrarian population with only a small working class.

1917 in Russia saw two revolutions the first can be seen as the bourgeois revolution where the middle class take the control of power away from the Tsar and the Autocracy. The majority of socialist present in Russia at this time believed that they should support the Middle Class as in Marx's work they should be a period of control from the middle class which would cement class consciousness.

Lenin was the one who pushed for second revolution and basically rewrote Marx's work to support his argument.

Lenin and his party took control they was a civil war and the Communist installed a dictatorship during this period to deal with the crises. Lenin died however due to a massive stroke and Stalin took control and basically kept all power to himself.

Communism should never have happened in Russia the country was not ready if it were to have happened in an already heavily industrialised country then it probably would have been truer to the works of Marx. I also remember somewhere that Marx quoted that Russia was a prime example of a country which was not ready for revolution and that the UK was.

[Man Of Kent]

Originally posted by xicoperez
Bingo!

If you look at the receipe of cakes and Spanish omelettes you will find eggs in both and: [insert common expression about breaking eggs].

You also use eggs to make pies (capitalism). That reminds me of something someone said: "In Europe you use shampoo for dogs with eggs in it. In Africa there are children that have never tasted an egg before.

P.S. "I'm so hungry!" Just thought I'd rub it in. :p

Thank you, I think I understand.

Certainly eggs get broken in each of the examples. But doesn't the fact that the populations of most "communist" countries have rejected the ideals eventually give you a clue about public feelings for this form of Govt?

And I think Jacq meant that people are greedy by their very nature. That they want material goods, and communism doesn't offer that.

Our understanding is that communism perports to be for the good of all, when most people are more worried about themselves. Therefore they will work harder, learn more etc just to get a bigger wage so that they can buy more. It's like an incentive scheme.

I don't get the feeling that the same "incentives" apply in communism.

One of the biggest problems faced by USSR was that worker didn't care about shoddy work because they were "guaranteed" a job and the same pay...

[Jim V]

Probably best if you want to debate the relative success of communist states and the importance of the permanent revolution that ya do it in another thread, chances are people will miss the debate with it's current title.

As for Luke, we'll keep your username - you're always welcome back and deleting the name would disrupt all the threads you've posted in.

So threads closed - feel free to kick off another about the issues above.