Iraqs new flag

[lukesh]

but Iraqi people are unimpressed.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3663387.stm

[Clandestine]

Trying to dictate every aspect of their nationhood is to continue to demonstrate that this was always about conquest and control, not liberation.

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Clandestine
Trying to dictate every aspect of their nationhood is to continue to demonstrate that this was always about conquest and control, not liberation. usa are not trying to take control.

[Clandestine]

No, they are in control and intend to remain so whether directly or by proxy.

[Amira]

i dont like it....arab countries all have some of the red white green and black colours in their flags...i agree that its like they are being allienated from the arab world

[dantheman]

It does take the piss really.

[The Doc]

Fair enough, America hasn't had much practise with colonies, well with releasing them anyway. What the British did was let the liberated people choose their own flags. Try that. :thumb:

[Aladdin]

Surely it's not just me who can see striking similarities between that flag and the flag of Israel?

Are these people just on a wind-up mission or something?

But putting similarities with other nations aside, who the flying fuck gave those idiots persmission to change the flag??!!!

They never fucking learn do they. :rolleyes:

[Dear Wendy]

Originally posted by Aladdin
Surely it's not just me who can see striking similarities between that flag and the flag of Israel?



Erm, no.

[marv]

It does have a religous symbol on it like Iseral (cant spell sorry)

It seems to me a pointless exercise dont there have bigger things to worry about?

[ShyBoy]

just for a comparison:

Israel
http://www.world-gazetteer.com/fl/fl_il.gif

New Iraq Flag
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40087000/gif/_40087109_iraq_new_flag2_203.gif

Must admit there is a similarity, they *feel* similar for me.

[Renzo]

How come this is only the first i have heard about a change of flag:confused:

[Dear Wendy]

Originally posted by TheShyBoyInTheCorner


Must admit there is a similarity, they *feel* similar for me.

For you.
But I can't see it. At all.

Then again, I assume you wouldn't know the history of the Israeli flag, and what it represents.

[Clandestine]

He wasnt making reference to any similarity in meaning or history of the flags, just their appearance.

[Aladdin]

Correct me if I'm wrong but blue is not a colour that features regularly in Arab/Muslim nations' flags.

And the full 'blue bands on a white background' theme does indeed strike a similarity with Israel's flag.

As a matter of fact where is the colour green? This is the one colour present in most if not all of the Arab flags. Even mosques are lit by green neon lights. Yet we get this bland, completely unconnected design looks more like the corporate flag of some washing machine powder company than an Arab sovereign nation.

But as I said earlier I'm not so concerned with the fact that the new flag might look like Israels (though this will be undoubtedly picked up by some and therefore backfire) as to the fact that the Iraqi flag must be changed at all.

I'm surprised they haven't gone the full way and changed the Iraqi flag to this:

http://www.economiaenred.com/fotos/logos/mcdonalds-logo.jpg

[lukesh]

the BBc report also says though that they don't like the flag they have now as it reminds them of saddam.

[Man Of Kent]

Not sure that is a reason to change it, at least the "people" should have decided rather than the US Govt (Iraq Division)...

[Whowhere]

I'm not sure why half of you hypocrites even care. It wasn't last week when you were all saying that you didn't give a toss about our flag, now you're all moaning because another country has had their flag changed for them!

Make your minds up people.

[Clandestine]

Last I checked the Union Jack wasn't being forced on you by another power. One is free to revere or ignore one's own sovereign national symbol, but no country has the right to impose a national identity wholly alien to the will of the indigenous population of another.

It s a matter of principle not one of allegiance.

[Aladdin]

Originally posted by Whowhere
I'm not sure why half of you hypocrites even care. It wasn't last week when you were all saying that you didn't give a toss about our flag, now you're all moaning because another country has had their flag changed for them!

Make your minds up people. That's soooo no the point. The point here is about imposing a new flag on other countries.

It doesn't matter if it's the flag, the national anthem or the national holiday. No one has the right to change such things in another country- especially as the people imposing the change shouldn't be there in the first fucking place.

[Man Of Kent]

I think the point that Whowhere is trying to make is that last week you were all saying "it's just a flag".

Your arguement was that the flag itself was irrelevant, as was patriotism.

I think he wants to know why this doesn't apply to Iraq and whether it is just because the US is involved or whether you now think that the flag is important to a nation's population...

[Aladdin]

But it is for the Iraqis to decide for themselves whether their flag is meaningless or not, or if it should be changed.

Not for a foreign occupying power and his muppets-in-office.

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by Whowhere
I'm not sure why half of you hypocrites even care. It wasn't last week when you were all saying that you didn't give a toss about our flag, now you're all moaning because another country has had their flag changed for them!

Make your minds up people.

:rolleyes:

Because its about US imperialism. If the US are so keen to establish democracy in Iraq, why are they trampling all over the wishes of the majority of Iraqi's?

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by Man Of Kent
I think the point that Whowhere is trying to make is that last week you were all saying "it's just a flag".

Your arguement was that the flag itself was irrelevant, as was patriotism.

I think he wants to know why this doesn't apply to Iraq and whether it is just because the US is involved or whether you now think that the flag is important to a nation's population...

Its the imposition by the US when they claim to be establishing a democracy.

[Whowhere]

Originally posted by Man Of Kent
I think the point that Whowhere is trying to make is that last week you were all saying "it's just a flag".

Your arguement was that the flag itself was irrelevant, as was patriotism.

I think he wants to know why this doesn't apply to Iraq and whether it is just because the US is involved or whether you now think that the flag is important to a nation's population...

Bingo!

[Aladdin]

Er... like I said earlier it all revolves around the fact that it is for the Iraqis to decide whether the flag is important or represents anything, not for the Americans.

I don't attach any importance to the 'sanctity' or symbolic importance of a flag, yet I wouldn't tell other countries to change theirs.

It's not such a complex issue really.

[Man Of Kent]

Originally posted by Aladdin
Er... like I said earlier it all revolves around the fact that it is for the Iraqis to decide whether the flag is important or represents anything, not for the Americans.

Again, devil's advocate time, last week you criticised Lukesh for saying that his flag was important to him. You (and others) said that it doesn't symbolise anything other than geographical boundaries and an "accident of birth".

This week you support Iraqis for saying that their flag in important to them.

The only reason I can see for your different approach is that you don't support the US strategy in Iraq anyway. This seems to be just another opportunity to snipe at them.

[Aladdin]

Not at all. I'm saying that it is for the Iraqis to decide whether their flag is important, and certainly whether it needs replacing.

It doesn't bother me if the Union Jack is important to others, including Lukesh. I would not care to fly it but I would not tell Lukesh he cannot fly it either. And I certainly would not tell him that from now on he's to fly a new flag designed by me.

Bottom line is and remains, it is up to the citizens of a country to change a flag (or anything else), not a group of foreigners.

[Man Of Kent]

I actually agree with you, let the people decide.

I just like to be awkward sometimes...

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Aladdin
Not at all. I'm saying that it is for the Iraqis to decide whether their flag is important, and certainly whether it needs replacing.

It doesn't bother me if the Union Jack is important to others, including Lukesh. I would not care to fly it but I would not tell Lukesh he cannot fly it either. And I certainly would not tell him that from now on he's to fly a new flag designed by me.

Bottom line is and remains, it is up to the citizens of a country to change a flag (or anything else), not a group of foreigners. exactly... Iraqis ONLy to design the flag but some of them will obviously won't like it and will have to put up with it, if the majority like it;.

[Man Of Kent]

Worth pointing out that it was an Iraqi who designed the flag...

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Man Of Kent
Worth pointing out that it was an Iraqi who designed the flag... yep, it said on teletext that the Iraqis didn't like it because it had blue on which it looked like Israels ...

[Aladdin]

Originally posted by Man Of Kent
Worth pointing out that it was an Iraqi who designed the flag... At whose instigation though? And after which consultation/referendum of the people of Iraq in which it was decided a new flag was wanted?

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Aladdin
At whose instigation though? And after which consultation/referendum of the people of Iraq in which it was decided a new flag was wanted? how do they do that? everyone to draw one?

[Aladdin]

For starters they should have asked the Iraqis whether they would like to change the flag in the first place (though quite why a bunch of foreigners should decide that the Iraqis want a new flag is beyond me :rolleyes: ).

And if the Iraqis vote in referendum that they want a new flag (asking them first would have been nice and democratic. Remember the 'democracy' were supposed to bring to the poor oppressed Iraqis?), then a small group of people can be commissioned to look into it and ask the Iraqis for their favourite.

The examples of hypocrisy and the empty promises by Iraq's "liberators" :rolleyes: are just incredible. And the patronising sickening.

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Aladdin
For starters they should have asked the Iraqis whether they would like to change the flag in the first place (though quite why a bunch of foreigners should decide that the Iraqis want a new flag is beyond me :rolleyes: ).

And if the Iraqis vote in referendum that they want a new flag (asking them first would have been nice and democratic. Remember the 'democracy' were supposed to bring to the poor oppressed Iraqis?), then a small group of people can be commissioned to look into it and ask the Iraqis for their favourite.

The examples of hypocrisy and the empty promises by Iraq's "liberators" :rolleyes: are just incredible. And the patronising sickening. we are in a democracery but the minority get the say.

but yes they should get a vote.

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by Whowhere
Bingo!

Read the replies.

And if you are so adamant that a flag is so important, then you should be disgusted that the Iraqi people have had their flag changed against their will.

[Clandestine]

MoK, it may have been technically designed by an "Iraqi", but which Iraqi? Remember that the "ruling council" has been sold to the world by Washington and the corporate media as being legitimately "Iraqi" when in fact its majority INC members are all to a man entirely alien to present day Iraq and have no constituency nor mandate from the indigenous population.

An Iraqi exile who has lived in comfort and prosperity in the belly of the US for 45 years is hardly a credible "Iraqi" when it comes to the self determination of those who have been forced to live through so much brtuality at the hands of our proxy rulers and our own military machine.

The true Iraqis are right to reject this further sign of our unrelenting bid for control over them.

[xicoperez]

A flag is a flag... And what is with the moon thing? If the Americans helped design this flag I think they forgot the separation of church and state thing. Oh, they forgot that a long time ago...

[Clandestine]

To many a flag is a flag but consider the supposed argument of those who are fiercely defensive of their nation's flag.

From a different perspective, would they themselves be so fiercely loyal to defend a flag that they perceived as having been imposed on their nation by a foreign power?

I highly doubt it as one can even see even from an example as domestic as the proliferation of confederate flags in many parts of the US South. The Iraqis have no single reason to accept this flag nor the ruling council nor the occupation forces and it's becoming painfully apparent they dont. We certainly wouldn't in their place.

[xicoperez]

A flag is a flag because they will not defend the new one or the old one.

Because they don't exist. Iraq was only a country when Saddam kept it together. And now the U.S. is going to try, but as they are a bunch of useless wankers (no offence Toad) they wont be able to... well if the keep up the tortures (http://vbulletin.thesite.org.uk/showthread.php?s=&threadid=63641)... they might just make it.


If not you'll need a few pretty blue flags, with moons. The kurd's one might have a hammer and sickle in the moon... :chin:

[lukesh]

Originally posted by xicoperez
A flag is a flag because they will not defend the new one or the old one.

Because they don't exist. Iraq was only a country when Saddam kept it together. And now the U.S. is going to try, but as they are a bunch of useless wankers (no offence Toad) they wont be able to... well if the keep up the tortures (http://vbulletin.thesite.org.uk/showthread.php?s=&threadid=63641)... they might just make it.


If not you'll need a few pretty blue flags, with moons. The kurd's one might have a hammer and sickle in the moon... :chin: if the americans are that bad get on the plane to afganistan with your liberal army....

[LadyJade]

Originally posted by lukesh
if the americans are that bad get on the plane to afganistan with your liberal army....

Must I remind you again to play nice? No personal comments please.

[lukesh]

Originally posted by LadyJade
Must I remind you again to play nice? No personal comments please. okokok sorry, I've had a proper bad day at shcool today lol. :(

[xicoperez]

Originally posted by lukesh
if the americans are that bad get on the plane to afganistan with your liberal army....

Emm...

1. The U.S. Army IS that bad...

2. Afganistán? Do you want to talk about Afaganistán now? Because I thought we were talking about Iraq.

3. I am not a liberal, I am a Communist.

4. My army is the working class. We are already in Afganistán and Iraq, an we are being attacked by the US of A and Britain.

[lukesh]

Originally posted by xicoperez
Emm...

1. The U.S. Army IS that bad...

2. Afganistán? Do you want to talk about Afaganistán now? Because I thought we were talking about Iraq.

3. I am not a liberal, I am a Communist.

4. My army is the working class. We are already in Afganistán and Iraq, an we are being attacked by the US of A and Britain. are you french?

[xicoperez]

Originally posted by lukesh
are you french?

:shocking: Ok...

What made you ask me this?

[lukesh]

Originally posted by xicoperez
:shocking: Ok...

What made you ask me this? doesn't matter.

[xicoperez]

Originally posted by lukesh
doesn't matter.

Oh come on please! Tell me! Did the Sun write a theory about all Communists being French? Tell me please, pretty please, with sugar on the top...

[ShyBoy]

Originally posted by xicoperez
Oh come on please! Tell me! Did the Sun write a theory about all Communists being French? Tell me please, pretty please, with sugar on the top...

I think it had something to do with your trivial response to a question in another thread:

Originally posted by xicoperez
Because I'm French... :eek2:

not everything's a conspiracy against you :p

[xicoperez]

Originally posted by TheShyBoyInTheCorner
I think it had something to do with your trivial response to a question in another thread:

not everything's a conspiracy against you :p

It was the other way around...

He first asked me if I was French.

And then, in another thread, he asked why we thought he was thick. I think he is thick because he thinks I'm French just because I said I was a Commie.

And of course not everything is a conspiracy... is it? Who are you? Who do you work for? What are you doing in that corner?

P.S. I'm not as dumb as I may seem, I do remember what I post.

[ShyBoy]

Originally posted by xicoperez
It was the other way around...

He first asked me if I was French.

And then, in another thread, he asked why we thought he was thick. I think he is thick because he thinks I'm French just because I said I was a Commie.

And of course not everything is a conspiracy... is it? Who are you? Who do you work for? What are you doing in that corner?

P.S. I'm not as dumb as I may seem, I do remember what I post.

I apoligise, I read zem in ze other order! :) And they are watching :yes: