ID cards are coming

[Aladdin]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3659355.stm


I used to be all in favour of them. We've always had them in Spain and they are useful and convenient for everything from opening a bank account to signing up with the local video shop. I've even 'pawned' it in a bar a couple of times when I didn't have enough money to pay the bill. It's brilliant!

However ID cards in Spain are (or at least were when I lived there) 'passive'. No smart chips or bar codes. No information stored that could be retrieved by retailers or the government.

The cards proposed to be introduced here will have a smart chip. In theory anyone with the right terminal could access your medical records, payroll and much more personal information. The government could use it to track your movements. Etc Etc.

I'm in favour of ID cards but I resent them being an interactive item. I'd rather they were just a simple photo ID card with no magnetic strips or smartchips to be read by anyone. So I'm not so sure now about this.

Any thoughts?

[byny]

Yeah - I worry aboutthe whole 'social engineering' aspect. If Governments can store all sorts of info about you then how do you know they won't use the info to control your life...Call me paranoid but I just don't likethe prospect!

[Man Of Kent]

I've never thought that ID cards would be a "good thing" and nothing in this proposal changes my opinion.

I'd be interested to see how people think that this would improve my liberty, and what processes are in place to prevent their erosion...

[dantheman]

If we have to have them they should make to be the most reliable form of ID with a retina scan etc otherwise there's no point, if they were just photo then they could be forged just liked passports.
They also should be used to help crackdown on fraud and illegal immigrants not keep track on everyday citizens.

[Aladdin]

Everything that registers where have we been and what have we bought (or shops visited), I have a problem with.

The retina scan will work by checking your retina as you wait and then compare the result with the image on your card. So far so good... but what assurances do we have that there will be no record of you having been scanned there and then?

I for one don't look foward to having to endure retina scans every time I sign up for Blockbusters or put a few hundred quid on my credit card- and for the government and police (not to mention marketing companies) to being able to track my movements and know where I shop.

[twisted_trinity]

like aladdin said, here the NIA and residencia cards work very well, but i won't like it one bit if the cards had more info on them than they do, surely it would breach human rights??

[Renzo]

I don't have a problem with ID cards, for a start i need some decent ID! But seriously, what is there to complain about it you are not doing anything criminal?

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by Renzokuken
I don't have a problem with ID cards, for a start i need some decent ID! But seriously, what is there to complain about it you are not doing anything criminal?

Oh dear.

Try reading some history maybe.

[byny]

Originally posted by Renzokuken
I don't have a problem with ID cards, for a start i need some decent ID! But seriously, what is there to complain about it you are not doing anything criminal?

Well...how exactly would they use them to check that there were no illegal Immigrants? By checking your ID card all the time and you can be sure certain groups would be targeted and checked all the time (The ones that 'look like' asylum seekers) so it would be a tad inconvenient.

Apart from that - just like shops who give you a store loyalty card have loads of info about you - the government would have it too...great if you trust the people in the government but bad if that government changes!

[lukesh]

If they help to beat terrorism and the rest of it then they are good but why the hell should we foot the bill for them? Government want us to have them they should pay!

[Clandestine]

LOL. And just where do you suppose the government gets its money from in the first place?

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Clandestine
LOL. And just where do you suppose the government gets its money from in the first place? tax payers... so the tax payers are already paying for them in their taxes so they should not pay a penny to them.

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by lukesh
If they help to beat terrorism and the rest of it then they are good but why the hell should we foot the bill for them? Government want us to have them they should pay!

They won't help beat terrorism.

[*DEVIL*]

Originally posted by Blagsta
They won't help beat terrorism.

Got to agree with that, it is not going to monitor certain activity of people, I coukd be a terrorist, and no one would now, i just feel these are going to cause more trouble, little privacy anymore.

Basically your everymove will be tracked, and data held, surely if you dont signthe data protection act they cannot make you do one. Is it not your basic rights?

I just think its a little limiting, i dont like the idea. :(

[The Doc]

If it was something that just had picture of myself, my name, my date of birth and my signature on it for getting into a film or buying a bus ticket, and retina scans were taken for moreserious matters, such as collecting benefits or transferring a large amount of money or perhaps in a police station, and they were cheap, I would have no problem with them.

[the sole liber]

Originally posted by Renzokuken
I don't have a problem with ID cards, for a start i need some decent ID!

Get a passport. Seriously, there probably isn't any better form of ID!
[b]
But seriously, what is there to complain about it you are not doing anything criminal?

Well the government has records on you, it could spy on you. If you're not a criminal, why should the state spend resources on your activities, considering you're doing no harm and not committing crime?

[Whowhere]

What would be better is to store your biometric details on a computer. No cards, nothing you need to carry with you.
Everything you are entitiled to is stored on that computer, and whenever something is changed you recieve a laminated hard copy to keep in a safe, like a bank statement, that way if something changes by mistake you can goto an office give them the last hardcopy and inform them where the mistake has been made.

If you sign up for a bank account, credit agreement or get questioned by the police your retina is scanned by a portable reader, they won't have any authorisation to change the details. The readout will tell that person if you are allowed to drive, if you have given the correct address or similar.
It won't hold criminal records, those will still be held by the police, it won't hold medical information except essential stuff for police officers or ambulance crews, i.e.Epileptic/Diabetic or something similar.

[lukesh]

I know a good way to beat terrorism, throw out that Abu hamas with his cronies.

[RiSe & ShIne]

Originally posted by lukesh
I know a good way to beat terrorism, throw out that Abu hamas with his cronies.

It's Hamza. And by 'cronies', do you mean every Muslim?

[wheresmyplacebo]

we dont need them though, surely the security services have the ability to trace people anyway without the cards as it is, i dont know how having more of a persons information on one card would stop terroism and illegal immigrants, as well thats why theyre illegal!
all it means is any freedom we hav eleft being taken away
david blunkett would better be suited to serving in the nazi government with how much he loves removing any rights we have like he did with terroism laws
and damn i wish i worked in the place doing these tamper proof, get enuf money for forgerys

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by lukesh
I know a good way to beat terrorism, throw out that Abu hamas with his cronies.

How is that going to "beat terrorism"? :confused:

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Blagsta
How is that going to "beat terrorism"? :confused: he will stop telling british muslism to fight the west and lots more

[Blagsta]

So thats the only cause of terrorism? A demented one handed nutter?

Errrrr...OK. :rolleyes:

[Aladdin]

I suspect it takes a lot more than Hazma telling Muslims to fight the West for any Muslim to actually do so...

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Blagsta
So thats the only cause of terrorism? A demented one handed nutter?

Errrrr...OK. :rolleyes: it's certainly a start.

[RiSe & ShIne]

Originally posted by lukesh
and lots more

Please, elaborate...

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by lukesh
it's certainly a start.

I'll tell you what it will achieve. It will achieve precisely fuck all.
In fact its possible it might make things worse as it will create a power vacuum that could be filled by someone worse, but that we don't know about.
I agree that Hamza is an evil man, but to think that he is in any way a cause of terrorism is naive in the extreme.

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Blagsta
I'll tell you what it will achieve. It will achieve precisely fuck all.
In fact its possible it might make things worse as it will create a power vacuum that could be filled by someone worse, but that we don't know about.
I agree that Hamza is an evil man, but to think that he is in any way a cause of terrorism is naive in the extreme. yes he is a cause of terrorism and has links to 5 other terroist networks... http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2004191669,00.html

[Blagsta]

I'm not denying he has links with terrorist groups. But that is not the same as being the cause of terrorism is it?
For instance - Gerry Adams had links with the IRA, but this does not mean he was the cause of the troubles in Northern Ireland, does it?

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Blagsta
I'm not denying he has links with terrorist groups. But that is not the same as being the cause of terrorism is it?
For instance - Gerry Adams had links with the IRA, but this does not mean he was the cause of the troubles in Northern Ireland, does it? does this guy need to be removed from the Uk today?

[RiSe & ShIne]

Originally posted by lukesh
yes he is a cause of terrorism and has links to 5 other terroist networks... http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2004191669,00.html

Jesus christ. If The Sun said David Beckham was a cause of terrorism, you'd believe that eh?

[lukesh]

Originally posted by RiSe & ShIne
Jesus christ. If The Sun said David Beckham was a cause of terrorism, you'd believe that eh? see what i mean.. taking the mick because it omes from the sun.. this hamas leader is dangerous!!


stop trying to say it's lies because if it is you give me evidense.

[RiSe & ShIne]

Originally posted by lukesh
see what i mean.. taking the mick because it omes from the sun.. this hamas leader is dangerous!!


stop trying to say it's lies because if it is you give me evidense.

He was an actual cause, not believer in, but cause of terrorism, he would have been arrested a long time ago.

[lukesh]

Originally posted by RiSe & ShIne
He was ana ctual cause, not believer in, but cause of terrorism, he would have been arrested along time ago. in my opinion he needs to be deported now.

[RiSe & ShIne]

Originally posted by lukesh
in my opinion he needs to be deported now.

That's Freedom of Speech for ya.

[lukesh]

Originally posted by RiSe & ShIne
That's Freedom of Speech for ya. yep but his goes beyond freedom of speech in my eyes,.

[RiSe & ShIne]

Originally posted by lukesh
yep but his goes beyond freedom of speech in my eyes,.

Yep. But speech is all that is. He's not planting bombs anywhere. Would you rather him gone and someone else doing so?

[lukesh]

Originally posted by RiSe & ShIne
Yep. But speech is all that is. He's not planting bombs anywhere. Would you rather him gona and someone else doing so? better be safe than sorry... yes?

[RiSe & ShIne]

Originally posted by lukesh
better be safe than sorry... yes?

If by that you mean let him stay here and spout his bullshit, then yes. I'd rather have him that someone much worse.

[lukesh]

Originally posted by RiSe & ShIne
If by that you mean let him stay here and spout his bullshit, then yes. I'd rather have him that someone much worse. no i didn't mean that. he should be thrown out of the country ebcause he is telling young muslims to fight us.., which some have them who were found in afganistan and pakistamn.

[RiSe & ShIne]

Originally posted by lukesh
no i didn't mean that. he should be thrown out of the country ebcause he is telling young muslims to fight us.., which some have them who were found in afganistan and pakistamn.

Yeah, let's get rid of him, and let someone else in who is willing to blow things up. You're so fucking clever :thumb:

[lukesh]

Originally posted by RiSe & ShIne
Yeah, let's get rid of him, and let someone else in who is willing to blow things up. You're so fucking clever :thumb: what? you talk practically out of your arse. i hope he blows this country up and amke yuou realise and make sure he blows up people liek you who constantly support him to stay here;

like the vast majority of people in this country I think he should be deported now not never.

[RiSe & ShIne]

Originally posted by lukesh
what? you talk practically out of your arse. i hope he blows this country up and amke yuou realise and make sure he blows up people liek you who constantly support him to stay here;

like the vast majority of people in this country I think he should be deported now not never.

I talk out of my arse? Rich coming from you.
And I'm a supporter of him? Get a brain mate.

Answer my question. Would you rather him stay here and spout his bullshit, or have someone else who is much worse, and much more dedicated to his cause, which means planting bombs etc?

[lukesh]

Originally posted by RiSe & ShIne
I talk out of my arse? Rich coming from you.
And I'm a supporter of him? Get a brain mate.

Answer my question. Would you rather him stay here and spout his bullshit, or have someone else who is much worse, and much more dedicated to his cause, which means planting bombs etc? read what i said properly this time... I never said you supported him, i said you supported him staying here because you don't want him deported do you?

[RiSe & ShIne]

Originally posted by lukesh
read what i said properly this time... I never said you supported him, i said you supported him staying here because you don't want him deported do you?

Answer my question please :)

[RiSe & ShIne]

Originally posted by RiSe & ShIne
Answer my question please :)

Didn't think I'd get an answer.

[xicoperez]

Originally posted by lukesh
i hope he blows this country up

Well if you don't like this great country get out you anti-English bastard! They should deport you! The Sun said so, this is my source:

Blair says: Lukesh will be deported (http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/lukesh)

[lukesh]

Originally posted by xicoperez
Well if you don't like this great country get out you anti-English bastard! They should deport you! The Sun said so, this is my source:

Blair says: Lukesh will be deported (http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/lukesh) me anti english? lol get your facts right man.

[Man Of Kent]

Originally posted by lukesh
i hope he blows this country up

Now, just how patriotic is that little comment?

Originally posted by Rise & Shine
If The Sun said David Beckham was a cause of terrorism

Maybe not if the Sun said it, but if Blunkett did I might be a little interested.

Oh hang on, didn’t he say something about Hamza recently…

He was an actual cause, not believer in, but cause of terrorism, he would have been arrested a long time ago.

Define “cause”… does he have to plant the bombs, or is incitement, organisation and support enough?

Oh, and you may want to ask how he lost him hand and eye.

[Man Of Kent]

Just to add.

I don't know how ID cards would stop Hamza from inciting terrorism though...

[LadyJade]

Being fucking clever, talking out of asses, blowing things up - my my aren't we having a high level debate.

[lukesh]

:eek: even the moderators swear!!!

[Clandestine]

Im sure they do Lukesh, but in this case she was merely coining comments made by others.