For lukesh, Major Tom and other frothing patriots

[Blagsta]

What is English/British culture anyway? I've tried to engage you on this question on some of the current threads and have been consistently ignored by you.

Come on, please articulate to me what this "Englishness" is that is being destroyed by immigration. Is it 6 pints, a kebab and a fight? A spliff, a can of Red Stripe and a jungle rave? Roast dinner on a Sunday? Morris Dancing? Cider & black and The Smiths? Voting BNP? Land of Hope & Glory, last night of the proms and weak chinned toffs called Tim Nice but Dim? A curry and a pint of lager? What?

[xicoperez]

Kebab? Curry? English?

You forgot the ol' fish n'chips matey!

[Blagsta]

Thats my point though. They've become quintessential parts of English culture, even though they're not inherently English.

[marv]

football :)

[lukesh]

Kills me to see that if you love your country your a automatically a BNP supporter. Crazy!


What is Englishness?
Well look around us.. fish and chips.. people who can have alaugh, don't take things seriously.. football, sports as we invented a lot of them... theres a lot that to do with us Englisdh.

Before you say anything I think that Asian people are just as Enlgihs as Iam as liong as they are commited to being English. You knwo supporting us in Football etc, general pride. You knwo it makes me cry with joy to see an Asian supporting England. If they were all like that the only racists we would have would be them far right BNP, we could throw then out then. :)

[marv]

Well look around us.. fish and chips.. people who can have alaugh, don't take things seriously..

actually fish and chips might not originate in England

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3380151.stm

So are only English people the only group in the world to have a laugh? most of the comedy which comes from England now is pretty shite.

[lukesh]

Originally posted by marv
actually fish and chips might not originate in England

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3380151.stm

So are only English people the only group in the world to have a laugh? most of the comedy which comes from England now is pretty shite. here we go again anti english talk.

get a grip.

[marv]

it's not but i am making two points

1) a lot of stuff which people consider to be english has influence from other cultures and places

2) the stuff u are saying is narrow minded and u are unable to take any point which disagrees with your world view

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by lukesh
Kills me to see that if you love your country your a automatically a BNP supporter. Crazy!

Who said that? :confused:

Originally posted by lukesh
What is Englishness?
Well look around us.. fish and chips.. people who can have alaugh, don't take things seriously.. football, sports as we invented a lot of them... theres a lot that to do with us Englisdh.

Before you say anything I think that Asian people are just as Enlgihs as Iam as liong as they are commited to being English. You knwo supporting us in Football etc, general pride. You knwo it makes me cry with joy to see an Asian supporting England. If they were all like that the only racists we would have would be them far right BNP, we could throw then out then. :)

You're not answering the question, or indeed anywhere remotely near understanding what I'm getting at.

You keep saying things like
"London celebrates every other festival much 99% are nothing todo with Enlgihs culture"

"We need to bring back Enlgishness to England"

"99% of English people want a festival to celebrate our english culture."

"because englishness needs to be celebrated because it's the best culture in the world"

etc (and thats only half of one thread!), yet all you can come up with when defining this "Englishness" is "fish and chips.. people who can have alaugh, don't take things seriously.. football, sports as we invented a lot of them".
My point is that there is not one static, unchanging homogenous English culture. Culture is a mutable and plural thing, meaning many different things to different people at different times in differing contexts, but they can all be "English".
But according to you, its football and fish & chips. Don't you think that UK garage, jungle, indie, acid house, curry and kebabs are English as well? As is Elgar, country homes, foxhunting and, roast beef and wax jackets. As is football, lager and violence. And coalmining and shipbuilding (well, until Thatcher destroyed it). And ice creams, knotted hankies and Southend in the freezing cold.

My point is, the things that you get so worked up about, are becoming part of English culture, whether you like it or not. Cultures change. Deal with it or not. Its up to you. But you're gonna like mighty small minded working yourself into a frenzy about it.

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by lukesh
here we go again anti english talk.

get a grip.

Proving my point entirely. Thanks :D



You utter utter plank.

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Blagsta
Who said that? :confused:



You're not answering the question, or indeed anywhere remotely near understanding what I'm getting at.

You keep saying things like
"London celebrates every other festival much 99% are nothing todo with Enlgihs culture"

"We need to bring back Enlgishness to England"

"99% of English people want a festival to celebrate our english culture."

"because englishness needs to be celebrated because it's the best culture in the world"

etc (and thats only half of one thread!), yet all you can come up with when defining this "Englishness" is "fish and chips.. people who can have alaugh, don't take things seriously.. football, sports as we invented a lot of them".
My point is that there is not one static, unchanging homogenous English culture. Culture is a mutable and plural thing, meaning many different things to different people at different times in differing contexts, but they can all be "English".
But according to you, its football and fish & chips. Don't you think that UK garage, jungle, indie, acid house, curry and kebabs are English as well? As is Elgar, country homes, foxhunting and, roast beef and wax jackets. As is football, lager and violence. And coalmining and shipbuilding (well, until Thatcher destroyed it). And ice creams, knotted hankies and Southend in the freezing cold.

My point is, the things that you get so worked up about, are becoming part of English culture, whether you like it or not. Cultures change. Deal with it or not. Its up to you. But you're gonna like mighty small minded working yourself into a frenzy about it. in other words english is not a culture and is a lot of shit yeah?

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by lukesh
in other words english is not a culture and is a lot of shit yeah?

Oh for fucks sake! Are you being delibaretly thick or what?

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Blagsta
Oh for fucks sake! Are you being delibaretly thick or what? you want to know what englishness is yeah? I have told you. it's not good enough for you.

reallt this thread is about showing that english aitn a cukture and is a load of shit.

[Blagsta]

Look - you're a working class lad, right? Who do you have more in common with - an asian lad from the estate down the road or some toff living in some big country house somewhere who goes fox hunting every weekend?

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Blagsta
Look - you're a working class lad, right? Who do you have more in common with - an asian lad from the estate down the road or some toff living in some big country house somewhere who goes fox hunting every weekend? the asian guy.

[Blagsta]

Exactly! Now we're getting somewhere.
The asian guy might eat different food to you, celebrate different festivals to you etc, but you have more in common with him because you will have similar experiences of being working class.
The toff might have the same colour skin as you, and might celebrate St Georges day, but what would you have in common? He's a rich toff who's never had to work, never had to deal with the crime on the streets etc.

Do you see what I'm getting at?

[Blagsta]

Anyway, time for Eastenders. Can't get more English than that!

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Blagsta
Exactly! Now we're getting somewhere.
The asian guy might eat different food to you, celebrate different festivals to you etc, but you have more in common with him because you will have similar experiences of being working class.
The toff might have the same colour skin as you, and might celebrate St Georges day, but what would you have in common? He's a rich toff who's never had to work, never had to deal with the crime on the streets etc.

Do you see what I'm getting at? yes but why are you saying this?


btw eastenders is the most depressing soap i've never seen.

[katchika]

What is "Englishness" is difficult to put your finger on. When I have spent time in other countries I have felt aware of it more...I would say a free press, and a dry sarcastic sense of humour are two things that set the English apart...find a lot of people from other countries don't "get" the English humour.

As for food, there isn't really an English food, unless you count a roast dinner?

English music/dance? Not really..when you think of traditional Spanish dance or Japanese dances for instance we don't have much to compare..maybe morris dancing??

Shakespeare? I'm clutching at straws a little bit but I don't think a culture comes from things as simple as food/dance/music. It's deeply ingrained. Manners are a big English thing. I got quite offended in the US when so many people did not use common courtesies like please and thank you.

[Renzo]

Lukesh, to me you seem to be holding the view that being english and being british are the same thing. Not all of Britain is English.

[Madgal99]

Lukesh, to me you seem to be holding the view that being english and being british are the same thing. Not all of Britain is English

Thank you. :D

[Skive]

For me being English (or British) is being proud of where I live and having an affinity with the people I work with and meet everyday.

For me it's pleasant villages where people attempt to play cricket - grimy mining towns - cockney rhyming slang - horrible beer - curries and kebabs in town and a liking for eating food that nutritionally has very little benefit - page 3.

We have great music, good fashion sense on the whole and generally people are far less rude.

We have a great sense of humour (particulary ironic humour) and I even love the way so many of us whinge (even those on here).

I think there's little doubt we have a strong culture. It may be influence by others but when it comes together it's still Englishness - and I love it

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by lukesh
yes but why are you saying this?

Because you have more in common with someone who doesn't necessarily share the same ideas of "Englishness" that you do, but has similar experiences of life.
"Englishness" and loving the country you live in has fuck all to do with flags, whether you celebrate St Georges day, Christmas, Eid or Ramadan. Its nothing to do with what God(s) you worship.
There isn't one conception of what it is to be "English". There are many and they are all valid.

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by PussyKatty
I would say a free press, and a dry sarcastic sense of humour are two things that set the English apart...find a lot of people from other countries don't "get" the English humour.

I would agree with this.
But the point I'm getting at (Luke, take note) is that these things are more important than whether you celebrate St Georges Day or not, or whether you're Muslim or Christian.
Some of my Muslim mates have a far more wickedly dry sense of humour than some Christians I know.

Basically, I'm saying that the right wing traditional "patriotic" view of Englishness is far too limited, small minded and exclusive.

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by Skive
We have great music, good fashion sense on the whole and generally people are far less rude.

We have a great sense of humour (particulary ironic humour) and I even love the way so many of us whinge (even those on here).

I think there's little doubt we have a strong culture. It may be influence by others but when it comes together it's still Englishness - and I love it

Again, I agree. See above.
But its also influenced by (and in turn influences) immigrant cultures. And thats peculiarly English as well. And I love it. :D

[katchika]

Isn't America the same in that respect..multicultural, lots of different foods available/music etc. BUT it seems even migrants to the US consider themselves as Americans, even classifying themselves for instance as Chinese American/African American.

Wheras many immigrants into England consider themselves first and foremost (for example) loyal to their religion rather than being English/British.

[lukesh]

Originally posted by PussyKatty
Isn't America the same in that respect..multicultural, lots of different foods available/music etc. BUT it seems even migrants to the US consider themselves as Americans, even classifying themselves for instance as Chinese American/African American.

Wheras many immigrants into England consider themselves first and foremost (for example) loyal to their religion rather than being English/British. there we go. thats all I want from this country. ALL walks of life being british


America is a brilliant example. You see them chineese.. they are so proud their American citizanship.



Hey I certainly know that English is different from british. i mean, they are different.

[Blagsta]

Dunno, not been to America, but I think you're right on the naming. But I think, culturally, the UK is a lot more integrated. Look at our music scene - jungle and UK garage are uniquely a product of mixing up cultures and uniquely British.

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by lukesh
there we go. thats all I want from this country. ALL walks of life being british

But it doesn't have to be about a flag or St Georges Day or football teams. Start widening your horizons a bit.

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Blagsta
But it doesn't have to be about a flag or St Georges Day or football teams. Start widening your horizons a bit. what does it have to be then?

[Blagsta]

*bangs head against wall*

It doesn't have to be anything. It can be whatever we want it to be. Stop limiting yourself.

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Blagsta
*bangs head against wall*

It doesn't have to be anything. It can be whatever we want it to be. Stop limiting yourself. examples

[Blagsta]

Oh for fucks sake. :rolleyes:

Are you pretending to be stupid? Or is it for real? :confused:

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Blagsta
Oh for fucks sake. :rolleyes:

Are you pretending to be stupid? Or is it for real? :confused: no i'm not and whats with this swearing?

and I'm pissed off too you know, sick of all this arguing.

No I'm not trying to eb stupid or nothing.

[Blagsta]

I give up. :rolleyes:

[The Doc]

St. George's Day is what YOU make it. Like all other festivals - Christmas, Easter etc, you do what YOU want. It shouldn't be about other people, it should be about you.

I think that is what Blagsta is trying to say, but you seem to be offended (with an O - sorry, but you have spelt it affended SO many times) by how he has said it.

[lukesh]

Originally posted by the doc horatio
St. George's Day is what YOU make it. Like all other festivals - Christmas, Easter etc, you do what YOU want. It shouldn't be about other people, it should be about you.

I think that is what Blagsta is trying to say, but you seem to be offended (with an O - sorry, but you have spelt it affended SO many times) by how he has said it. yes of course but when it's a saint day it should be special.


I have spelling problems if you havn't noticed yet?

[Madgal99]

I have spelling problems if you havn't noticed yet?

Oh I hadn't noticed... ;)

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Madgal99
Oh I hadn't noticed... ;) everyone seems to understand me, most of the time so thats good. I'm trying my hardest to over come this.

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by the doc horatio
St. George's Day is what YOU make it. Like all other festivals - Christmas, Easter etc, you do what YOU want. It shouldn't be about other people, it should be about you.

I think that is what Blagsta is trying to say, but you seem to be offended (with an O - sorry, but you have spelt it affended SO many times) by how he has said it.

What I'm trying to say is that it doesn't matter if you celebrate it or not. Do if you want, ignore it if you want.
Whether you do or don't has nothing to do with Englishness or lack of it.

Ya get me, sta?

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by lukesh
yes of course but when it's a saint day it should be special.

Do you go to church?

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Blagsta
Do you go to church? some times.

[Blagsta]

So you're a Christian?

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Blagsta
So you're a Christian? Iam. Are you religious?

[Blagsta]

Not in the traditional sense, no.

Can you accept that some people in this country aren't Christian? And might not want to celebrate a Christian saint's day? Yet can still be English?

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Blagsta
Not in the traditional sense, no.

Can you accept that some people in this country aren't Christian? And might not want to celebrate a Christian saint's day? Yet can still be English? it's not a Christian festival. It's an being English festival.

and why are you again trying to say I'm racist?

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Aspartame
I'm English because I was born here.
Nowt else to it.
I celebrate that every year :) yeah. :)

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by lukesh
it's not a Christian festival. It's an being English festival.

Its a Saints day - by very defintion Christian. Or at least Christian in origin.

Originally posted by lukesh
and why are you again trying to say I'm racist?

Where?

[BlackArab]

Originally posted by PussyKatty
Isn't America the same in that respect..multicultural, lots of different foods available/music etc. BUT it seems even migrants to the US consider themselves as Americans, even classifying themselves for instance as Chinese American/African American.

Wheras many immigrants into England consider themselves first and foremost (for example) loyal to their religion rather than being English/British.

This may changed since I was there (88-91) but America was a lot different, the races are far more segregated in most parts, it wasn't the norm for instance to go to a pub/club for instance and find a mixture of races.

In this country we (ethnic minorities) also class ourselves similairly eg Black British, British Asian etc.

Both Christians and Muslims worldwide put their religion over anything else. Immigrants are not necessarily going to class themselves as English or British because they are born overseas, the same way as the British expats living in Spain don't class themselves as Spanish. However most ethnic minorities in this country are born here and we generally see ourselves as British.

Hope this helps.

[Skive]

Originally posted by Blagsta
Its a Saints day - by very defintion Christian. Or at least Christian in origin.


Yeah but you celebrate christmas.

These days festivals arn't only celebrated by religious types. People love any excuse to celebrate and get drunk. St Georges day should be a chance to celebrate your country, your history and who you are.

It's not a crime to identify yourself with a nation - it doesn't mean you have to distinguis between skin colour or religons. England has many skin coulours and many religions.

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by Skive
Yeah but you celebrate christmas.

A pagan festival. :p But yes, I know. I was just making a point.

Originally posted by Skive
These days festivals arn't only celebrated by religious types. People love any excuse to celebrate and get drunk. St Georges day should be a chance to celebrate your country, your history and who you are.

But I don't feel the need to.

Originally posted by Skive
It's not a crime to identify yourself with a nation - it doesn't mean you have to distinguis between skin colour or religons. England has many skin coulours and many religions.

I never said it was a crime. What I'm arguing against is lukesh's and Major Tom's very narrow definitions and views.

[xicoperez]

Lets see...

Englishness is supporting England in the world cup? Eating fish and chips, kebab and curry? Watching Eastenders? ...

And what, being sarcastic?!

It's true that many Spaniards don't understand the sense humour of the English residents, it's mainly because they don't speak English. If those residents made the effort of learning Spanish maybe the sense of humour would be understood. I'll stop ranting about this.

If you ask in Benidorm many Spanish residents will describe English people as: Drunk foul-mouthed very white people that don't have any manners or sense of decency. That think because they work hard in England to pay for their holidays they can come here and act like savages, drink a few pints of their piss-like beer and sleep on our benches. And also let their fat wives show their pale waist-hight tits to our poor teenagers and expect them to shag the cows. Ah, and they are bad loosers at football... Putos guirufos.

[Skive]

Originally posted by Blagsta
A pagan festival. :p

Christmas is by definition a christian festival - with pagan origins. :p

Originally posted by Blagsta
But I don't feel the need to.

I think it's good that we have a day where we can (if we want to that is) aprreciate the fact that we're who we are. And I don't see any problem in not wanting to.

I don't like our flag being burned though.

[xicoperez]

Originally posted by Skive
I don't like our flag being burned though.

Oh, sorry about that...

[Whowhere]

British humour!
Noone apart from Matt Groening and Bill Bryson can match us for our dry sense of humour.
All the best comedies are British.
Did you know, that we and Australia are the only countries to have developed taking the piss into an art form.

Goto a comedy club on a friday night, the difference between ours and the Americans is, ours dont stand there ripping the shit out of people in the audience, they subtlely undermine the people who heckle.

What else, British patience, no other country has developed q-ing the way we have. Many foreign authors have noted that we seem to be the only nation capable of automatically creating a neat line without the need for ropes.

The British army, pride of the nation. The most professional, highly trained force in the world. Equally suited to peacekeeping, policing, firefighting, bridge building and killing insurgents. Why do you think Basra is the only city to remain relatively peaceful? Our troops, and our people as a whole know how best to communicate with people. Yes the war might be shitty, but noone can argue that we made a hash of it, we at least are making efforts to help the Iraqi people build their own country, instead of doing it for them.

The NHS, free healthcare, for the benefit of the all. There may be huge waiting times for some things, but the doctors and nurses carry on with a smile on their faces. They remain professional no matter what, the pay may stink but they never go on strike.

The police, it's still said that in heaven Britain would provide the police. What other nation is able to take on criminals with nothing more than a pair of handcuffs and a large helmet? Yes, it has its problems, but so does every service. Individually police officers are amongst the finest people. They don't do what they do because of the money, they do it because they want to help maintain the peace.

There are many things that make Britain great, but listing them would take ages and it's early.
yes, it's wrong to be a blind patriot, and to ignore the faults of your own country, we only need to look over the pond to people like Thanatos to realise that. But equally to not have a love of your own nation, a race of people you identify with, a place you call home is quite sad IMO.

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by Whowhere
But equally to not have a love of your own nation, a race of people you identify with, a place you call home is quite sad IMO.

Not sure about your use of the word race there.
But my point is that things like celebrating St Georges day or flying the flag or whatever are superficial. And culture is not static. It changes.
People who wank on about immigration etc destroying out culture, just don't get it.

[Whowhere]

Originally posted by Blagsta
Not sure about your use of the word race there.


We are the British race.

[Blagsta]

No, we're not.

[xicoperez]

The point of this thread is to explain Englishness... I suppose we'd have to explain what makes English different from the rest...

Every country you go to says that it's sense of humour is the best and think it's a "national sense of humour". That is bullshit! Have you heard Faemino y Cansado? Eugenio? Quique San Francisco? All you have described as English humour is what they do. They must be very English then.

British patience? I thought Spanish were the laid back, mañana attitude... People are not patient because they were born here...

The Englishness of the army... Oh, come off it! The English army has slaughtered (sp?) it's enemy since it's creation. Don't compare me with them.

The Seguridad Social in Spain is an extraordinary healthcare system. It was better before 1996, when the neo-fascists came to power, but now that the Socialists are back it can be better than ever before. Already it is one of the best in the world, and it was created by Ernest Lluch... he was Catalán, not English.

I agree with the police thing, they do have some of the best training I've seen and seem quite professional, and have the courage of not carying guns... Oh, I heard that 90% of the Met Police want to carry guns. It must be full of foreigners now...

What makes England great are the working class. But that is not Englishness, as it is like that in every country in the world.

P.S. British Race! Ha ha ha haa!

[wheresmyplacebo]

its hard to explain but i think what they mean by englishness is the fact even though some things are inherently from other countries... our mix of it is english so to speak

anyway us english are really celt/germanic/roman/french/scandinavian anyway the really english always used to retreat into wales :P

[dantheman]

[i]... Oh, I heard that 90% of the Met Police want to carry guns.
[/B]

Source?

[xicoperez]

Originally posted by dantheman
Source?

I'm looking for an internet source, but I heard that on the news on I don´t know what channel...

I never said it was a fact or the truth, I said I heard. If someone else heard that, please tell me where I did...

Patience Dan, I'll find it... :)

[katchika]

The kind of people who go to Benidorm and get drunk and throw up are only representative of a minority of British people.

[*DEVIL*]

Every country you go to says that it's sense of humour is the best and think it's a "national sense of humour". That is bullshit! Have you heard Faemino y Cansado? Eugenio? Quique San Francisco? All you have described as English humour is what they do. They must be very English then.

WHO????

Jethro? Mr Bean (Rowan Atkinson)? Billy Connolly? Benny Hill? Ricky Gervais? Victoria Wood? Kathy Burke? Harry Enfield? Graham Norton? Lenny Henry?

Do you think it is right to lump all british in one boat? I know for a fact trhat when i go away, usually to Lanzarote (spanish language), i like to learn about the local History, i learn the language a particular favorite of mine is traiganos la quenta por favor, i use the manners and politeness i have learnt at home in a rude nation (spaniards) for those who are not aware "traiganos la quenta por favor is bring me the bill please" I also use words such as gracias and por favor, words that even the spanish tend to forget (in my experience) But then i am generalising, not all spanish people are ignorant, just as all british people abroad are not violent, drunkards!

I am proud to be English as i am to be Cornish, Cornish pasties may i add, a super thing to come ourt of Cornwall, so much history and background to be proud of down here!

This is why i am proud to be english :-

[list=1]
Shakespeare
Milton
Keats
Byron
Brunel
Alexander Fleming
Churchill
Florence Nightingale
Issac Newton
Bodicea
Princess Diana
Richard the Lionheart
Lord Nelson
Thomas Barnardo
Charles Dickens
like whowhere stated the public services NHS, Police
Close to my heart and personal thing i am proud of...The people and organisation who give so much to charity, possibly one of the strongest nations for advancing the human race
William Wilberforce (a white englishman who ENDED slavery)
Edward Elgar
[/list=1]

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by *DEVIL*
Do you think it is right to lump all british in one boat?

Which is exactly my point. Your conception of "Britishness" is not the same as other peoples. So quit whinging about "our way of life" being destroyed by immigration.

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by *DEVIL*
William Wilberforce (a white englishman who ENDED slavery)

Yes, we know, thanks.

[Lemur]

Originally posted by *DEVIL*
Billy Connolly? Graham Norton?[/list=1]

I couldnt quite work it out from your post, but if you were trying to say that these two people were english...

Anyway, about the police wanting to carry guns, it must be just the MET because my Dads a copper and he and all the people he works with dont want to carry guns (my dad used to be in the met btw)

Besides, policemen dont need to carry guns, theyre all huge where i come from :crazyeyes

[lukesh]

lots of lovely English things, brilliant! :)

[BlackArab]

Two Tone
Jungle/Drum&Bass
The Clash
Chicken Tikka Masala
Blur
Pulp
Happy Mondays
Norman Jay
Norman Cook
Norman Wisdom
Northern soul
Acid House
The Streets
Festivals
Carnivals
Bhangra
Carry On Films
John Motson
Les Dawson
Cold cider on a hot day outside
Ken Loach
Ian Wright
The club scene
The Kumars
John King
Meera Syal
UK Garage
Underworld

[xicoperez]

Originally posted by Blagsta
Which is exactly my point. Your conception of "Britishness" is not the same as other peoples. So quit whinging about "our way of life" being destroyed by immigration.

Beautiful...

P.S. It's "Traiganos la cuenta, por favor."

[Namaste]

Originally posted by lukesh
Kills me to see that if you love your country your a automatically a BNP supporter. Crazy!

Um... how does that work then? :confused:

Am I proud to be English/British?

I'm greatful for a roof over my head and freedom of speech... but as far as identity is concerned... the only thing I really like about the UK is the countryside and rural culture.