Britain "to get its referendum on EU Constitution"

[Aladdin]

Though it has not been officially confirmed as yet, apparently there will be a referendum (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3637993.stm) on the EU Constitution after all.

Happy now? ;)

So why the U-turn? Methinks it is actually a clever move to disable one of the Tories' strongest cards for the next election. By promising to hold a referendum after the next election the issue is defused for the time being.

Another matter is whether Labour can convince the public to vote Yes. That surely is a monumental task at present.

Thoughts?

[piccolo]

I don't think they could have gotten away without a referendum. Effectively, changes to EU law / constitution causes constitutional change here, the one thing referenda are meant to be called for! (Apparently Tony Blair didn't read his AS Level politics notes :p).

Anyhoo, that aside, you have to wonder what he can possibly do if the public vote "no". We'd have to withdraw from the EU surely? Or have I misunderstood?

e.t.a. Whatever happened to the referendum on the Euro we were promised in Labour's 1997 and 2001 manifestoes?

[Aladdin]

Originally posted by piccolo
Anyhoo, that aside, you have to wonder what he can possibly do if the public vote "no". We'd have to withdraw from the EU surely? Or have I misunderstood?

e.t.a. Whatever happened to the referendum on the Euro we were promised in Labour's 1997 and 2001 manifestoes? I really hope you misunderstood about what it meant. Withdrawing from the EU would be the single biggest mistake in the history of Great Britain!

I thought it'd just mean the Constitution would be torpedoed and would have to be abandoned.

Some people are suggesting that Blair is hoping for other nations to have their own referendums first and reject the Constitution, which would mean Britain would not have to hold one and the government would safe face beautifully.

As for the euro, since there are no current plans to join the single currency I guess there is no much point in asking...

[Renzo]

Why do they need one? It's less important the Nice treaty and the like right? The thing is though it will be a shame that there is a referendum because the millions who read the right wing press are immediatly going to say no.

Mind you I would vote 'Yes'

[Aladdin]

There is a lot of small print to consider but I still believe the Constitution would not dramatically affect British law or the running of its institutions (let alone "remove the last vestiges of British sovereignty" as the fucking xenophobic scumbag tabloid press and its columnists insist on claiming).

Agreeing to hold the referendum is purely a political move. And unless another country rejects it first a 'No' vote will further alienate Britain from the rest of the EU and diminish its voice.

But never mind. The tabloid press will have its day at the polls and the europhobes will have a wankfest as they take immense pleasure in voting 'No' to the Constitution (perhaps secretly imaging they're voting No to membership to the EU itself). Most of them will be doing so without actually having a fucking clue what the EU Constitution is and how it would affect us anyway. No doubt some will be carrying Union Jacks to the polling stations and believe their doing their duty for Queen and Country. :rolleyes:

[the sole liber]

.t.a. Whatever happened to the referendum on the Euro we were promised in Labour's 1997 and 2001 manifestoes?

When the 'five tests' were completed??

[Whowhere]

About bloody time as well.
It's all well and good believing something may be for the good of the country, but we live in a democracy.
I for one am glad we'll be given a say for once.

[Renzo]

Originally posted by Whowhere
About bloody time as well.
It's all well and good believing something may be for the good of the country, but we live in a democracy.
I for one am glad we'll be given a say for once.

However most people have no idea what they are voting for. The tabloids will stir it up and europhobes will rush out to say no just to feel good because they are pissing all over europe

[Whowhere]

Then someone has to have the foresight, to create a web page with everything we need to know in laymen's terms.
Because at the moment the only people saying ANYTHING about what a constitution will mean are the tabloids and Daily Mail.

[Aladdin]

It's perfectly okay to be given a say on matters that affect the country. I simply think that,

1. The EU Consitution is not important enough to justify holding a national referemdum over it

2. Most of those who have been campaigning hardest for a referendum to be held (namely the right-wing press) have done so because of their profound hatred of Europe and the EU, rather than because they care about this country or democracy.

[Whowhere]

From what ive read the constitution is a set of rules governing how we live our lives.
It will control taxes, foreign policy, law and order, military and defence.

If this were America, and we were one of the states then it would work.
But this isn't America, this isn't a continent with 4 million colonial settlers on it. It's a continent of 450 million people, many of whom disagree, dislike or hate the other nations.
I don't WANT the EU to make our laws, I dont want them to control our police or armed forces, I dont want them to set our taxes.
These issues may not be on the tables right now, but if the constitution goes through then they will be soon.

[dantheman]

Originally posted by Aladdin
It's perfectly okay to be given a say on matters that affect the country. I simply think that,

1. The EU Consitution is not important enough to justify holding a national referemdum over it

2. Most of those who have been campaigning hardest for a referendum to be held (namely the right-wing press) have done so because of their profound hatred of Europe and the EU, rather than because they care about this country or democracy.

You're saying that because you agree with the EU Consitution.
I don't want to pull out of the EU but don't think we need this Consitution and I don't have a hatred of Europe I just think we're fine as we are.

[Clandestine]

As I mentioned before, despite the rather unwieldy legalise of the EU Constitution, the document does not add any significant powers of centralised authority to the EU over that of its composite members.

Much of it, with exception to clauses regarding possible future centralisation on Foreign and Defence Policy, is nothing more than a codification of the already existing arrangments, mechanisms, powers, obligations and limitations to which member states already signed on.

Use this BBC synopsis as a starting poitn in your personal research if you don't believe (and I take no offence to those who do not)...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/2940800.stm

[Man Of Kent]

Originally posted by Clandestine
As I mentioned before, despite the rather unwieldy legalise of the EU Constitution, the document does not add any significant powers of centralised authority to the EU over that of its composite members.

Interesting use of English there my EU friend.

The word "significant" in that sentence, is in itself "significant"... ;)

Much of it, with exception to clauses regarding possible future centralisation on Foreign and Defence Policy, is nothing more than a codification of the already existing arrangments, mechanisms, powers, obligations and limitations to which member states already signed on.[/url]

Many of which have never been passed by the people of the UK.

If even just as a rubber stamp a referendum on this document is a must.

[dantheman]

Originally posted by Clandestine
As I mentioned before, despite the rather unwieldy legalise of the EU Constitution, the document does not add any significant powers of centralised authority to the EU over that of its composite members.

Much of it, with exception to clauses regarding possible future centralisation on Foreign and Defence Policy, is nothing more than a codification of the already existing arrangments, mechanisms, powers, obligations and limitations to which member states already signed on.

Use this BBC synopsis as a starting poitn in your personal research if you don't believe (and I take no offence to those who do not)...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/2940800.stm

I have a really hard time believing that.

[Clandestine]

Go and research it yourself then. I encourage you to do so rather than simply expect the tabloid press to give you a balanced assessment.

You have to remember that devolution of power is something each member state opposes, so the compromised version under current consideration is far from the nightmare painted by more ideologically inspired Euro-sceptics.

[lukesh]

Don't turst that Blair one little bit.

[Aladdin]

At last Lukesh and I agree on something!

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Aladdin
At last Lukesh and I agree on something! thats a relief. :)

[Renzo]

Originally posted by Aladdin
At last Lukesh and I agree on something!

Seems that there may be some good in him somewhere atleast ;)

[wheresmyplacebo]

is this a vote on whether to accept the US constitution really :P


edited to say:

:p

[Clandestine]

This document is nothing compared to the US Constitution. Check the link I provided previously and go from there.

[wheresmyplacebo]

Originally posted by Clandestine
This document is nothing compared to the US Constitution. Check the link I provided previously and go from there.

i should of included the :p at the end of my previous post!!!! okay :P *blair loving bush micktake*

[lukesh]

Originally posted by wheresmyplacebo
i should of included the :p at the end of my previous post!!!! okay :P *blair loving bush micktake* rather that then a blair and Chirac licking each other. he just laughs at Blair, we have more in common with our American friends than Europeans.

[Aladdin]

I disagree. Other than the language I cannot see much in common between us and America to be honest. Having travelled extensively through the US and Europe, I can assure you that we have a trillion times more things in common with Europe than the US.

The much-trumpeted 'special relationship' amounts to little more than a political and military alliance. And a rather unequal one at that, since we rarely appear to reap any benefits from it. But at social and cultural levels, make no mistake: we're Europeans, not Americans.

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Aladdin
I disagree. Other than the language I cannot see much in common between us and America to be honest. Having travelled extensively through the US and Europe, I can assure you that we have a trillion times more things in common with Europe than the US.

The much-trumpeted 'special relationship' amounts to little more than a political and military alliance. And a rather unequal one at that, since we rarely appear to reap any benefits from it. But at social and cultural levels, make no mistake: we're Europeans, not Americans. who is "we", you call your self european but the majority of Brits certainly don't.

Americans speak our langauge, share democracey, share freedom, share polial links, economic links, lots of things.

europe is just turning into a Federal state which the UK doesn't be part of. What was world war 2 a made of?

[Aladdin]

Originally posted by lukesh
who is "we", you call your self european but the majority of Brits certainly don't. And you speak for them do you?

Given the political and social 'insight' you have shown here to date, I very much doubt you can claim to speak for anyone or to even understand the people of this country.

Americans speak our langauge, share democracey, share freedom, share polial links, economic links, lots of things. Europeans share democracy, share political links, economic links and 'lots of things' as well. In fact, they share much more in common with us than America. Do a little research.

Or even better, travel a bit and then get back here and tell us all about it.

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Aladdin
And you speak for them do you?

Given the political and social 'insight' you have shown here to date, I very much doubt you can claim to speak for anyone or to even understand the people of this country.

Europeans share democracy, share political links, economic links and 'lots of things' as well. In fact, they share much more in common with us than America. Do a little research.

Or even better, travel a bit and then get back here and tell us all about it. lol... stop reading the guardian and come back with your ready.


where does all this arguing get us or debating you call is... incldung the swearing etc etc.

[marv]

Why do u assume to speak for the whole of britain lukesh?

I like to think of myself to be British and European.

Also we do have a lot in common with our European neighbours for one think we have nearly 2000 years of shared history. FOr good or bad we have this link.

Our economic system is closer to Europe then that of the Uinited States. THe US is more market driven whereas the European model is more sociailly driven

[LadyJade]

Originally posted by lukesh
where does all this arguing get us or debating you call is... incldung the swearing etc etc.

If you feel that way lukesh, I could ask you why on earth you continue to post on the politics and debate boards?

And before you start, I'm not trying to make you feel unwelcome and I don't hate you.

[LabRat]

Poor lemmings…
Those stupid losers Napoleon and Hitler had no Idea that they heeded not military force but democracy and friendly British socialists to make UK a province of their empires.

[Aladdin]

You what?

[Whowhere]

Hitler did famously once say he'd rather have Britain as an ally than an opponent.

As for us being more like Europeans or the yanks, you can bog off if you think we're ANYTHING like America. yeah we have the same shops, but we're nothing like the Yanks.
If anything we're more like germany in terms of culture and language.
The original colonists of Britain were Angles and Saxons, Saxons being from Germany.
Our language is remarkably like German in terms of spelling, pronunciation and syntax. Why do you think most English people find it easier to learn and speak german fluently than french?

[LabRat]

What a stupid dilemma! Why must you choose to be a province of American or European Empire? Is Great Britain so small and helpless that can’t survive being independent? Liechtenstein and Bermudas can but you can’t?

[Man Of Kent]

Am I right in thinking that you live in New Zealand?

[lukesh]

Anyone heard what Blair is up to now? he will keep giving the British people a vote until he gets what he wants, a yes vote. What a dictator... what an hypercrite!!

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2004182190,00.html

[Aladdin]

Well it's always going to take a very big effort to erase 30 years of malicious lies and and smear campaigning by the tabloid press... so more than one referemdum might be necessary until proper debate has flushed out all the lies ;)

[lukesh]

I don't think it's lies, I believe most of it. Like Howard says We don't want to be in a country called Europe.

[Aladdin]

There is no such thing as a country called Europe.

There is never going to be such thing as a country called Europe.

No nation is going to lose power over their judiciary or military.

Continental Europeans are not an alien race of paedophiles bent on ruling the world and destroying Britain.

The amount of horror tales and scaremongering from the xenophobic tabloid press we have to put up with is truly unbelievable.



P.S. Michael Howard on the other hand is a blood sucking vampire from deepest Transilvania who needs to be given the wooden stake treatement ASAP.

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Aladdin
There is no such thing as a country called Europe.

There is never going to be such thing as a country called Europe.

No nation is going to lose power over their judiciary or military.

Continental Europeans are not an alien race of paedophiles bent on ruling the world and destroying Britain.

The amount of horror tales and scaremongering from the xenophobic tabloid press we have to put up with is truly unbelievable.



P.S. Michael Howard on the other hand is a blood sucking vampire from deepest Transilvania who needs to be given the wooden stake treatement ASAP. hey just beacuse you don't agree with him there is no need to be make the mick out of him and be racist!!

Hes a great leader and knows whats best for our country.


Err Europes objective is a United States of Europe, Over 90% of this country don't want this. case closed.

[Renzo]

Originally posted by lukesh
Anyone heard what Blair is up to now? he will keep giving the British people a vote until he gets what he wants, a yes vote. What a dictator... what an hypercrite!!

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2004182190,00.html

*shakes head* I cannot beleive that someone would regulary read that anti-europe right wing trash! If we need more than one referendum so be it! Other countries have had to do it before. Ireland had to over the 2000 Nice treaty.

If you want a balanced argument, featuring pro european views, anti europe views and the actual parts of the constitution i suggest that you read a broad sheet paper and look in today's guardian. It has a full page about it. I will find the link on the net if there is one.

[lukesh]

the Guadian is an left wing basing paper too!

facts show that 90% + of the population are aginst the Euro.

What did you think of the Guardians points? You infavour or not?

[Renzo]

Originally posted by lukesh
the Guadian is an left wing basing paper too!

facts show that 90% + of the population are aginst the Euro.

What did you think of the Guardians points? You infavour or not?

The guardian may be a left wing paper but it does not out right bend the truth in order to pump fear into the population. I beleive it is regarded as one the most intellagent newspapers.

I have not had a thorough read yet as it was interupted by my dinner. I beleive that it does give a balanced view though, of course it is using others view points.

And yes I am in favour of The European Constitution, Further European intergration and the Euro.

I do not have the time for a debate right now, I must go and finish my Politics Coursework.

[Aladdin]

Racist?

How so?

Michael Howard is known in political and media circles as a 'vampire' just as many other politicians were known by different nicknames (Two Jags, Paddy Pantsdown, Iron Lady, etc etc etc).

And he certainly doesn't know what's best for this country. As usual the Tories are forgetting about their promises on public services and improving things for everyone, and turning to their two favourite obsessions and object of all their hatred: immigration and Europe.


And errr... there's not such thing as ''Europe's objective''. Europe is a continent made up to some 50 countries. The EU is made of 15, soon to be 25 independent nations. None of those nations has expressed its desire to cease to exist as a country and become part of a new country called Europe.

Quit reading the S*n with its fantasy tales and horror stories if you really want to be informed of current affairs.

[lukesh]

the sun is my bible!! keeps me well imformed with the horrible united states of europe build up.

many broadsheets do too.. the times. telehgrah, the independand.

[dantheman]

Originally posted by Renzokuken
The guardian may be a left wing paper but it does not out right bend the truth in order to pump fear into the population. I beleive it is regarded as one the most intellagent newspapers.
.

You're right here, I looked at their site earlier and it had both the yes & no arguments without any obvious bias.

[Clandestine]

Keeps you filled perhaps but informed is another matter altogether.

Tabloid press is to informed debate what McDonalds is to nutrition.

[Aladdin]

Originally posted by lukesh
the sun is my bible!! keeps me well imformed with the horrible united states of europe build up.
See what I mean, everyone? This just cannot be the honest input of a young man.

There is a word for this. Guess which one...

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Aladdin
See what I mean, everyone? This just cannot be the honest input of a young man.

There is a word for this. Guess which one... what?

[Renzo]

Originally posted by lukesh
the sun is my bible!! keeps me well imformed with the horrible united states of europe build up.



A word has yet to be invented for your ignorance to politics and current affairs. Somehow i do not think a paper with headlines on David Beckcam can give someone the information they need in order to take part in an informed political debate. Read a broadsheet then come back.

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Renzokuken
A word has yet to be invented for your ignorance to politics and current affairs. Somehow i do not think a paper with headlines on David Beckcam can give someone the information they need in order to take part in an informed political debate. Read a broadsheet then come back. lmao i do read them. I often read the times, the telegraph and the independant at school.

[Renzo]

Originally posted by lukesh
lmao i do read them. I often read the times, the telegraph and the independant at school.

so why not atleast back up your arguments with articles from those? Instead of the lies that are printed in the tabloid

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Renzokuken
so why not atleast back up your arguments with articles from those? Instead of the lies that are printed in the tabloid proove they are lies? they are hard plain facts that you don't agree with.

[Renzo]

Originally posted by lukesh
proove they are lies? they are hard plain facts that you don't agree with.

The paper prints fiction! I don't think anyone has suggested a United States of Europe since Winston Churchill after World War 2! Except for the editors of your choice of "newspaper" of course.

[Aladdin]

To be fair the S*n has been known to tell the truth from time to time.

The other day for instance it said on the front page Tuesday, 13th April 2004 and it was indeed that date!

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Renzokuken
The paper prints fiction! I don't think anyone has suggested a United States of Europe since Winston Churchill after World War 2! Except for the editors of your choice of "newspaper" of course. omg a United States of Europe is th objective idiot!! Get your facts right.

if not then whats all this intragration about?

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Aladdin
To be fair the S*n has been known to tell the truth from time to time.

The other day for instance it said on the front page Tuesday, 13th April 2004 and it was indeed that date! funny.

well at least you admit it's not all rubbish then.

lets get abck on topic instead of what newspapers you read again.

right 90% + are aginst this United States of Europe.

[Aladdin]

I've got news for you: probably the same proportion of Germans, Frenchmen, Spaniards, Italians and others are also 90% against a United States of Europe.

And your point is?

Do you want me to explain to you what the EU Constitution is? Well, rather, I can tell you what it is not: it is not about a 'United States of Europe'.

There is no such thing as a 'United States of Europe.'

There have never been plans for a 'United States of Europe'.

Get it in your head.

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Aladdin
I've got news for you: probably the same proportion of Germans, Frenchmen, Spaniards, Italians and others are also 90% against a United States of Europe.

And your point is?

Do you want me to explain to you what the EU Constitution is? Well, rather, I can tell you what it is not: it is not about a 'United States of Europe'.

There is no such thing as a 'United States of Europe.'

There have never been plans for a 'United States of Europe'.

Get it in your head. get it in your head that it's a run up to it!

[lukesh]

ow yes please expalin what the Consitution is.... a tidy put like Blair says? If it's that why the need a of a vote?

[Renzo]

Originally posted by lukesh
omg a United States of Europe is th objective idiot!! Get your facts right.

if not then whats all this intragration about?

The intergration is to enable the countries of Europe to work together in order to use their collective weights in world affairs both ecomically and politically with for emphisis on the former.

Where does it say a united states is the aim? In the Murdoch press? :rolleyes:

May i suggest you read this (http://politics.guardian.co.uk/eu/story/0,9061,1200403,00.html) it is a balanced debate with articles of the constitution in it. Tell me where the constitution mentions a 'United States Of Europe'

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Renzokuken
The intergration is to enable the countries of Europe to work together in order to use their collective weights in world affairs both ecomically and politically with for emphisis on the former.

Where does it say a united states is the aim? In the Murdoch press? :rolleyes:

May i suggest you read this (http://politics.guardian.co.uk/eu/story/0,9061,1200403,00.html) it is a balanced debate with articles of the constitution in it. Tell me where the constitution mentions a 'United States Of Europe' lmao left wing Guardian as I'm going believe what that load of crap says.


Why does it take all our laws away? They control it all!

britis don't want that as it shows in the polls.

[Renzo]

Originally posted by lukesh
lmao left wing Guardian as I'm going believe what that load of crap says.


Why does it take all our laws away? They control it all!

britis don't want that as it shows in the polls.


THEY ARE ARTICLES FROM THE CONSTITUTION YOU FOOL

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Renzokuken
THEY ARE ARTICLES FROM THE CONSTITUTION YOU FOOL yes I know!!!


EU Consitution is bad for Britian, we don't want to be independant.

[Renzo]

Originally posted by lukesh
yes I know!!!


EU Consitution is bad for Britian, we don't want to be independant.

If you know then, you avoided my question. Tell me where the constitution mentions a 'United States of Europe'

and we dont want to be independant do we, surely thats what the constitution is for ;)

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Renzokuken
If you know then, you avoided my question. Tell me where the constitution mentions a 'United States of Europe'

and we dont want to be independant do we, surely thats what the constitution is for ;) I never said it was a united states of europe... i said it's a build up to it.

[lukesh]

Right heres a brilliant poll to show how Brits think of Europe..


either read the sun's poll 98% are aginst this New europe and 95% of teletext voters are against it.

ITV page 348

[Toadborg]

Fantastic, I am so excited.

PS I am disgusted to think that you would interpret a S*n poll as representing the views of 'Brits'.

I feel sure I am as 'ritish' as any S*n reader yet probably have a different opinion on almost every major issue, weird!

[marv]

At least this referendum going to actually give the people a chance to have a proper debate on the subject of the EU.

It is long over due and i hope that in the end sensible debate will win not xenophobic right wing drum bashing that the tabloids take some much delight in doing

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Toadborg
Fantastic, I am so excited.

PS I am disgusted to think that you would interpret a S*n poll as representing the views of 'Brits'.

I feel sure I am as 'ritish' as any S*n reader yet probably have a different opinion on almost every major issue, weird! The Sun is he best selling daily so it represents Brits unlike The Guardian.

[lukesh]

Originally posted by marv
At least this referendum going to actually give the people a chance to have a proper debate on the subject of the EU.

It is long over due and i hope that in the end sensible debate will win not xenophobic right wing drum bashing that the tabloids take some much delight in doing same for left wing crap they come out with. works both ways you know.

[Aladdin]

Originally posted by lukesh
ow yes please expalin what the Consitution is.... a tidy put like Blair says? If it's that why the need a of a vote? EXACTLY!!!

Ask your beloved master Rupert 'the tax-dodging Dirty Digger' Murdoch. He's the one ultimately responsible for forcing a referendum.

[LadyJade]

Originally posted by Renzokuken
May i suggest you read this (http://politics.guardian.co.uk/eu/story/0,9061,1200403,00.html) it is a balanced debate with articles of the constitution in it.

I would highly recommend people read this article, it presents the view of both the pro-Europe and Euro sceptic camps on the 'top ten points of contention' in a really straightforward and factual way...
Cheers Renzo!!

[Toadborg]

Has anyonme ever met someone who properly understands what this constitution is about really, I haven't and never will probably.....

What do you think will be the turnout for this referendum?

My guess is that it will be less than the combined daily readership of the S*n, the Mail, the Express and the Telegraph. If this is so I hope they will admit that they are knobs and shut up in the future.........

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Aladdin
EXACTLY!!!

Ask your beloved master Rupert 'the tax-dodging Dirty Digger' Murdoch. He's the one ultimately responsible for forcing a referendum. lmao typical left winger.

god it's not a tidy up it's a move towards a Federal United States ofEurope and Brits know this!

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Toadborg
Has anyonme ever met someone who properly understands what this constitution is about really, I haven't and never will probably.....

What do you think will be the turnout for this referendum?

My guess is that it will be less than the combined daily readership of the S*n, the Mail, the Express and the Telegraph. If this is so I hope they will admit that they are knobs and shut up in the future......... the Guardian is a knob not the papers you have said just ebcause thye don't believe in what you say but believe in the British people. Why is it that you guys always spell the Sun like this... S*N?

[Renzo]

Originally posted by lukesh
lmao typical left winger.

god it's not a tidy up it's a move towards a Federal United States ofEurope and Brits know this!

No it is not. Go and read the article. And brits don't know this, the xenophobic right wing press wants you to beleive it.

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Renzokuken
No it is not. Go and read the article. And brits don't know this, the xenophobic right wing press wants you to beleive it. brits don't want to listen/read the crap the liberals come out with.

We want to be on own own and not with Europe... surely this is possible?

[Renzo]

Originally posted by lukesh
brits don't want to listen/read the crap the liberals come out with.

We want to be on own own and not with Europe... surely this is possible?

if you don't want to read crap then throw your pathetic little tabloids away.:rolleyes:

If we are out of Europe we will fail to function on the world stage, can you not see that?

Did you not take note of LadyJade giving her approvals to the article?

[lukesh]

err the mirror is a tabloid and supports this Consitution so is that saying crap?


and most broadsheets disagree with this too.

[LadyJade]

Originally posted by Renzokuken
Did you not take note of LadyJade giving her approvals to the article?

I thought it was a good balanced view. Just as you criticise everyone for dismissing the tabloids out of hand, lukesh, you yourself dismiss the Guardian. I seem to remember you agreeing recently that all reporting is biased one way or another - surely the important thing is to process the information from a variety of sources, with that in mind?

[Aladdin]

Originally posted by lukesh
lmao typical left winger. Says the not-very-informed, brainwashed kid who worships a xenophobic sex-obsessed little rag the whole world laughs at for its pointlessness and its extreme bias.

god it's not a tidy up it's a move towards a Federal United States ofEurope and Brits know this! Rubbish.

Why is it that you guys always spell the Sun like this... S*N? For the same reason most newspapers choose to spell 'fuck' like this: f**k or wanker like this: w*****rs.

Because it is a foul offensive word that causes great offence.

brits don't want to listen/read the crap the liberals come out with. Oh yes they do.

We want to be on own own and not with Europe... surely this is possible? Of course it is. People like you can join the racists, purists, xenophobes and homophobes of this country and emigrate together to a desert island. We'll even let you call it 'New Britannia' or something like that, and in there you can live in perfect pure harmony for ever after and free of all those evil asylum seekers, gypsies and Europeans.

Or you could emigrate to America and apply for a job with News International.

[lukesh]

what ever I say or any right is always racist aint they.

[Aladdin]

I didn't say you were... I said if you are so disgusted by Europe and want to live completely independent of your Continental neighbours, then the most viable solution would be for you and anyone else who hold such extreme views to piss off to a desert island and create their own country there.

And whereas you might not be racist, I suspect the great majority of people willing to move to the said island would be.

[lukesh]

I like europe but we should get close on the politcal agenda.

[LabRat]

Originally posted by Man Of Kent
Am I right in thinking that you live in New Zealand? Little letters under my avatar confirm your guess.
Originally posted by Aladdin
There is no such thing as a country called Europe.
There is never going to be such thing as a country called Europe.

Fact. There never was a country called Roman Empire or British Empire or Soviet Empire. An empire is not a country.
This anti-Euro-stuff is a nice proof that Right-wing guys are right sometimes. While anti-war protesters confirm Lefties are right too…
To Lukesh.
‘Sun’ can’t be a Bible! Excuse me but saying this is like a blasphemy. If you are a Christian you shouldn’t say such things.

PS Did you ever read that Giscard’s masterpiece you intend to vote for or against? Stalin would swallow his pipe from envy…

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by lukesh
I like europe but we should get close on the politcal agenda.

You don't even know what you mean by that. I get the feeling you're just repeating stuff you've heard your dad say.

[Man Of Kent]

Originally posted by LabRat
Little letters under my avatar confirm your guess.

I can just see the irony in your comments then.

In either case being suggested we would retain our head of state.

Funnily enough, the same head of state that your little country has...

[lukesh]

Originally posted by LabRat
Little letters under my avatar confirm your guess.

Fact. There never was a country called Roman Empire or British Empire or Soviet Empire. An empire is not a country.
This anti-Euro-stuff is a nice proof that Right-wing guys are right sometimes. While anti-war protesters confirm Lefties are right too…
To Lukesh.
‘Sun’ can’t be a Bible! Excuse me but saying this is like a blasphemy. If you are a Christian you shouldn’t say such things.

PS Did you ever read that Giscard’s masterpiece you intend to vote for or against? Stalin would swallow his pipe from envy… i am messing with Aladdin by saing the Sun is my bible... surely no one believed that? lol

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Blagsta
You don't even know what you mean by that. I get the feeling you're just repeating stuff you've heard your dad say. hahahaha i don't even speak to my dad much. thats a personal thing anyway.



I feel that we should nto intergrate polically but only by trade.

my opinion accept it or not.

[Blagsta]

Back up your opinion with reasons or I'll continue to think you're an idiot.

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Blagsta
Back up your opinion with reasons or I'll continue to think you're an idiot. what with? your just trying to change the subject now idiot!

[Blagsta]

Tell me what you mean by this "I like europe but we should get close on the politcal agenda." then.

What political agenda in particular? And why don't you like it?

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Blagsta
Tell me what you mean by this "I like europe but we should get close on the politcal agenda." then.

What political agenda in particular? And why don't you like it? frenc ahd german countires don't even like us. we should stay independant and no one can moan about another country etlling them what to do.

[Aladdin]

Originally posted by lukesh
frenc ahd german countires don't even like us. How much do you want to bet that it's the other way round?

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Aladdin
How much do you want to bet that it's the other way round? it's both mate.. both.

[Aladdin]

Well. Why you don't try to think of all the horrible and damaging things Europe has done to us, and put it next to the list I've put forward?

Let's see who is the true friend and ally of this country.

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by lukesh
frenc ahd german countires don't even like us. we should stay independant and no one can moan about another country etlling them what to do.

You didn't answer my question.
I'll repeat it shall i?

What political agenda in particular? And why don't you like it?

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Aladdin
Well. Why you don't try to think of all the horrible and damaging things Europe has done to us, and put it next to the list I've put forward?

Let's see who is the true friend and ally of this country. why should I? i will only get accused of being a sun basher.

[Blagsta]

A sun basher? Is that like bashing the bishop?

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Blagsta
A sun basher? Is that like bashing the bishop? if you say so.

[Aladdin]

Originally posted by Blagsta
A sun basher? Is that like bashing the bishop? :lol:

[Blagsta]

Shall I repeat my question again?

Originally posted by Blagsta
What political agenda in particular? And why don't you like it?

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Blagsta
Shall I repeat my question again? i don't to see my country having polical ties with europe i.e european super state.

[Blagsta]

You still haven't answered my question. What political agenda and why don't you like it?

Jeeez! This is like pulling teeth

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Blagsta
You still haven't answered my question. What political agenda and why don't you like it?

Jeeez! This is like pulling teeth european super state. that politcal agenda.,

[Blagsta]

I give up. You have no clue.

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Blagsta
I give up. You have no clue. do you know what agenda means?

I don't like this super state OK? you do and I don't. accept it.

[Blagsta]

Oh for fucks sake. :rolleyes:

Yes I do know what agenda means. You obviously don't though.

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Blagsta
Oh for fucks sake. :rolleyes:

Yes I do know what agenda means. You obviously don't though. maybe my wording is wrong. lime i have said numerous times what i believe about uk and europe.