Treason

[Makoto]

Sorry to bring this up.

If someone publicly burns the Union flag should they not be tried for treason and either serve a prision sentance or be expelled from the country? I'm sure if I stood some where in an Arabic state and burned a flag or celebrating that some Muslims were killed I would be a racist and get charged with stirring racial hatred or even be killed. Why don't anyone at Westminster seem to care what Muslims extremists do?

[Blagsta]

Don't be stupid.

[Namaste]

I always thought treason was when you killed the queen or something :eek2:

Burning a flag ain't gonna hurt people, but the BNP would milk the scenario to death.

[Makoto]

Abu Hamza: British citizen

Treason: A crime that undermines the offender's government.

Abu Hamza has comitted treason.

[Blagsta]

So according to you, treason is anyone against the government? :eek:

I've committed treason in that case, along with the 10's of thousands who helped bring down Thatcher's government in the poll tax campaign.

[Braineater]

Treason was an executionable offense until 1998.

[Makoto]

It's also treason to purposely act to aid the country's enemies which hook was/is doing.

[Blagsta]

Was he? I don't know.

Anyway, whats that got to do with burning the flag?

[Makoto]

Anyway, whats that got to do with burning the flag?

Because he stood in Finsbury park burning the Union Jack and saying how much he hates England and the west.

[Blagsta]

So what? Thats free speech that is. Deal with it.

[lukesh]

the fact is in this country that the British people acmn't burn any other countries flag because this is racist but if someone burns out beautiful flag it's NOT racist. Crazy law!

Hey mate, don't tell any of these that it's racist because you and me know and the rest of the country know it's racist. If I were in London i;d shoot that Abu Hamas.. there he is claiming bebefits and saying how he hates Western lifestyle. What a BIG hypercrite!

[BlackArab]

Originally posted by Felix Da Housecat
It's also treason to purposely act to aid the country's enemies which hook was/is doing.

You sure it was him burning the flag, the picture I saw in the papers showed someone else.

[lukesh]

Originally posted by BlackArab
You sure it was him burning the flag, the picture I saw in the papers showed someone else. does it matter if it was him? he is one of them with the same believes so they should be thrown to Yemen because they want them on trail.

[BlackArab]

Originally posted by lukesh
does it matter if it was him? he is one of them with the same believes so they should be thrown to Yemen because they want them on trail.

It does matter if we are talking about him :yeees:

[lukesh]

Originally posted by BlackArab
It does matter if we are talking about him :yeees: why?

[BlackArab]

Originally posted by lukesh
why?

Because he is the one that was accused of treason for burning the flag in the earlier post.

[Madgal99]

If I were in London i;d shoot that Abu Hamas.. there he is claiming bebefits and saying how he hates Western lifestyle. What a BIG hypercrite!

You'd shoot him would you? That would be a really clever thing to do...

[Aladdin]

What's the stupid deal with burning a flag??? You're not burning the Head of State herself or the Presidential Palace. You're burning a piece of cloth with some colours printed on it.

Treason? Please!

The only charge that could possibly (and on exceptional circumstances) be considered is incitement to public disorder or thereabouts. Treason refers to acts that, to put it very plain and simple, put the nation or its citizens in danger.

Flag burning is a provocation, and in certain circumstances could be considered an offence- mainly to do with seeking to provoke a violent retaliation and so on. But treason?

Some people have a very bizarre concept indeed of what constitutes one's nation/identity. Pity those who consider the pinnacle of their country and culture to be represented by a piece of cloth. Or a currency for that matter- though that's a different argument.

[Major Tom]

the police see it fit to close off a section of road when hamza is ranting to prevent the bnp and their ilk from disrupting his sermons, obviously they have a duty to uphold public order but i wonder how long hamza and his friends would stay in this country if the bnp were allowed near him?

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by lukesh
the fact is in this country that the British people acmn't burn any other countries flag because this is racist but if someone burns out beautiful flag it's NOT racist. Crazy law!

Its not illegal to burn other countries flags.

Originally posted by lukesh
Hey mate, don't tell any of these that it's racist because you and me know and the rest of the country know it's racist. If I were in London i;d shoot that Abu Hamas.. there he is claiming bebefits and saying how he hates Western lifestyle. What a BIG hypercrite!

So you'd shoot anyone who disagrees with you? You've got more in common with Abu Hamza than you'd care to admit I think...

[*DEVIL*]

Originally posted by Aspartame
If someone doesn't like it here, then they're a moron for staying...

I think its quite clever, him staying he is here for the long term with all those benefits he is receiving.

[Blagsta]

Don't you think the government and security services might have a reason for letting him stay? He's a known quantity, he can be kept an eye on. Deport him and theres a power vacuum, could be filled by anyone...

[*DEVIL*]

Originally posted by Aspartame
I wasn't thinking about benefits, nor do I know what he recieves (or not).

I was just saying that if somewhere is nasty (or your perception of it says that it is) then why live there?

I really do not know, i think it has to be the money he is receiving!

[lukesh]

it seems as some of you don't mind these terrorists burning the British flag and shouting terroism. I do and most of the british public do too.

If i were saying that all the non british should get back tot heir own country what would happen?

[Blagsta]

Define "non british".

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Blagsta
Define "non british". who live sin this country?

[Blagsta]

What? :confused:

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Aspartame
Terrorists that stood around burning flags would be rather easy to catch...

Is "shouting terrorism" a new WMD to all those that hear? hey they can do anything in this country because iof we did take action it would be aginst their humna rights and it would be very racist.

[Blagsta]

Oh dear. :rolleyes:

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Blagsta
Oh dear. :rolleyes: ow yes!

[Aladdin]

Originally posted by J
Treason:

A crime that undermines the offender's government

Disloyalty by virtue of subversive behavior

Fair enough about the others but these two are utter bollocks. Who's written them? President Mugabe?

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Aspartame
You really should consider thinking before you type such complete effluence.

Maybe you should read these links:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/suffolk/3633539.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3627917.stm so why is this abu hamas still not arested then?

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Aspartame
He might be a bastard, but I don't think they have evidence to suggest that he plans on blowing anything up.
I must admit to not knowing much about him.

Maybe Whowhere could provide you with some information on what a policeman needs to make an arrest. maybe but he is a threat because he is telling muslims to go aginst us. this is making terrorism grow.

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by lukesh
so why is this abu hamas still not arested then?

Originally posted by Blagsta
Don't you think the government and security services might have a reason for letting him stay? He's a known quantity, he can be kept an eye on. Deport him and theres a power vacuum, could be filled by anyone...

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by lukesh
maybe but he is a threat because he is telling muslims to go aginst us. this is making terrorism grow.

My Muslim friends and work colleagues hold him in contempt. He's a joke, forget him.

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Blagsta
My Muslim friends and work colleagues hold him in contempt. He's a joke, forget him. glad to hear that.

[Makoto]

What's the stupid deal with burning a flag???

That flag represents our country and all of what we stand for that's what. I just feel that if you are in this country you should respect it.

When is Rome, do as the Romans do.

[Blagsta]

What about free speech?

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Felix Da Housecat
That flag represents our country and all of what we stand for that's what. I just feel that if you are in this country you should respect it.

When is Rome, do as the Romans do. exactly!

[Blagsta]

What about free speech? What about people (like me) who don't identify with the flag?

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Blagsta
What about free speech? What about people (like me) who don't identify with the flag? gwt stuffed then!

what do you mean... don't identify with the flag?

[RiSe & ShIne]

Originally posted by Blagsta
What about free speech? What about people (like me) who don't identify with the flag?

I'm with ya here.

The Union Jack means fuck all to me. that doesn't mean to say I'm gonna burn it. But so what if I do? If the flag means something to you, then good luck with it.

But don't tell me I can't do what I want with a piece of material with colours on it.

[lukesh]

Originally posted by RiSe & ShIne
I'm with ya here.

The Union Jack means fuck all to me. that doesn't mean to say I'm gonna burn it. But so what if I do? If the flag means something to you, then good luck with it.

But don't tell me I can't do what I want with a piece of material with colours on it. what about Scotlands flag then?

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by lukesh
what do you mean... don't identify with the flag?

Just that. I don't identify with it. It means nothing to me.

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Blagsta
Just that. I don't identify with it. It means nothing to me. what nationalioty are you?

[Makoto]

What about free speech?

I'm all for free speech but preaching hate is going to far. If I stand in Leister Squre saying it's ok to kill non Christians or non white people then I would be nicked as quick as. If people want to keep an eye on Hamza then they should do in his own country and not in mine when I am paying for him to preach his vile filth.

[RiSe & ShIne]

Originally posted by lukesh
what about Scotlands flag then?

Same goes for that.

[lukesh]

Originally posted by RiSe & ShIne
Same goes for that. not very patriotic are you? are you Scottish?

[RiSe & ShIne]

Originally posted by lukesh
not very patriotic are you? are you Scottish?

I like my Country, I respect it, and I love it's past. But a flag is a flag. It, in no way, repressents how I feel.

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Aspartame
That would defeat the purpose of keep an eye on him here, wouldn't it? what claiming our benefits and stuff? No!

hand him over to yemen who want him for murder.

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Aspartame
If they really are keeping an eye on him then surely it's better the Devil you know...? but it makes me sick to see him in my country!

[RiSe & ShIne]

Originally posted by lukesh
but it makes me sick to see him in my country!

Tough shit. Theres fuck all you can do about it.

[Major Tom]

okey cokey! next weekend i'll go to leicester or bradford and burn the pakistani flag. no-one will mind, it's only a bit of cloth with colours on it , and in any case im exercising my freedom of speech.

[lukesh]

Originally posted by Major Tom
okey cokey! next weekend i'll go to leicester or bradford and burn the pakistani flag. no-one will mind, it's only a bit of cloth with colours on it , and in any case im exercising my freedom of speech. exactly... I'll join you along with millions of english.

[wheresmyplacebo]

personally im sure the majority of people who are or claim to be muslim find him a joke on how hypocritical some of his views are...

and if he is seen to be wanted by the yemen government why dont we deport him

and it isnt the burning of the flag, its what it represent, it isnt having a go at the government it has having a go at the country and what the country isfounded upon
but it is free speech, but we dont have free speech in this country if i went into central london organising a random march in some kind of uniform saying how the nazis were good and that nazi germany is what we should aim to be to achieve a pure society i could be arrested quite easily by the police so we dont have free speech and therefore he shuld just be sent off to yemen where im sure theyll treat him well

Originally posted by Blagsta
Define "non british".


hmm i not one to make comments like this normally but someone who says how evil and bad this country and west is yet still wants to live here, and be paid by the state for doing, id say doesnt deserve to be british....

if he likes having a go at tony balir... good for him tho

[Aladdin]

Originally posted by lukesh
exactly... I'll join you along with millions of english.

Yawn.

Troll.

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by lukesh
what nationalioty are you?

It says British on my passport.

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by Aspartame
If they really are keeping an eye on him then surely it's better the Devil you know...?

The point that I've made twice and been ignored by Luke.

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by Major Tom
okey cokey! next weekend i'll go to leicester or bradford and burn the pakistani flag. no-one will mind, it's only a bit of cloth with colours on it , and in any case im exercising my freedom of speech.

Go ahead. :)

[Major Tom]

so you dont think i would be arrested for inciting racial/ religious hatred?

[Blagsta]

I don't know. Try it and see. :)

[BlackArab]

No not at all, the Pakistani flag doesn't represent a religion or race, just a country.

[Major Tom]

i wouldn't dream of doing something that offensive and savage, you could say the easiest thing would be to ignore the lunatics; dont give them the attention they crave, but in the current climate i think that is no longer an option.

[Namaste]

Originally posted by Felix Da Housecat
Because he stood in Finsbury park burning the Union Jack and saying how much he hates England and the west.

I know this sounds kinda harsh... but it goes for anybody living in this country.

If you hate it, move out! :mad:

[Martin_Bashir]

i will never sing the national anthem.

'God save our gratious queen, long live our knoble queen,
God Save the queen'

what has that got to do with a modern and democratic british state?

It is a personal hymn of worship directed at a single individual, it is totally irrelevant us.

How about the national anthem from Human Traffic?

Seriously, citizenship lessons, language yeah, make people aware of their constitutional obligations and rights, but for god sake dont make them pledge allegiance to the fucking monarchy.

Its not like i hate the queen as a person (i cant judge her i've never met her :) ) although i do hate the imperialist past which the monarchy represents.

They are irrlevent to modern british society.

[Whowhere]

Originally posted by wheresmyplacebo
if i went into central london organising a random march in some kind of uniform saying how the nazis were good and that nazi germany is what we should aim to be to achieve a pure society i could be arrested quite easily by the police


It's a criminal offence for a political party to have any sort of uniform.
So yes, you'd get arrested :p

I know what you're saying, it's double standards. The sooner someone goes up to Mr Hamza, calls him a wanker and starts burning the crescent flag of Islam or the national flag of Egypt (thats where he's from) the better, teach him how it feels to have his country or beliefs go up in flames before his eyes.

[Aladdin]

Originally posted by Whowhere
It's a criminal offence for a political party to have any sort of uniform. Really? I didn't know that...

Hold on a second... What about the Tories with their pinstriped suits? Surely that's a uniform. :D

[Renzo]

Originally posted by Martin_Bashir
i will never sing the national anthem.

'God save our gratious queen, long live our knoble queen,
God Save the queen'

what has that got to do with a modern and democratic british state?

It is a personal hymn of worship directed at a single individual, it is totally irrelevant us.

How about the national anthem from Human Traffic?

Seriously, citizenship lessons, language yeah, make people aware of their constitutional obligations and rights, but for god sake dont make them pledge allegiance to the fucking monarchy.

Its not like i hate the queen as a person (i cant judge her i've never met her :) ) although i do hate the imperialist past which the monarchy represents.

They are irrlevent to modern british society.

i totally agree the 'national' anthem is totally out of date. Time for a new one methinks. I say 'national' because well it's the English anthem, yet it is what is used to represent Britain. I have never got that. I mean in the 2nd verse doesnt go on about "Crushing Scots":eek2: mmm national unity.

[Man Of Kent]

Originally posted by Aladdin
Really? I didn't know that...

Hold on a second... What about the Tories with their pinstriped suits? Surely that's a uniform. :D

Surely you remember the wolly jumper get together they had under Major (or was it Hague, I don't know, all these Tory leaders blurr into one after a while...)...

It used to be a Lib Dem uniform to wear tweed jackets with leather patches on the elbow. Also, to have a beard and drink "Real Ale". Apparently...

[Man Of Kent]

Oh, and treason requires action against the State, not just the sitting Government.

It is possible, that by signing the Maastrict Treaty the then PM - John Major - committed treason because it gave some rights of the state away...

[BlackArab]

The wooly jumper meeting I'm pretty sure was under Major, still remember the photoshoot, what a classic :lol:

My favourite Major moment was the speech about old ladies cycling to church and warm beer, MoK you must remember that one!!!

On another note seeing as the Tories have been loud in calling for a referendum on the EU constituion can anyone remember the result of the one we had on Maastricht my memory fails me...