child labour

[the sole liber]

Why the need for child labour laws??

If a child wants to work then why not??

[VinylVicky]

to stop them being exploited and made to work.

[Kermit]

Because a child has no means to make a free and informed decision.

[morrocan roll]

Originally posted by the sole liber
Why the need for child labour laws??

hellooo ...the real world ...exploitation health and safety ...what a stupid question!

[the sole liber]

If a family is poor then why can't they send their children to work??! It would earn extra money for the family!

[morrocan roll]

Originally posted by the sole liber
If a family is poor then why can't they send their children to work??! It would earn extra money for the family! some things never change do they. the comfortable are quite happy with the less comfortable hiring out their children for slave labour. the rich get fatter the poor die stuck down some fucking hole in the ground.
what kind of employment do you have in mind ...flying a jet ...driving a train ...fireman ...soldier ...or just skivvy?

[LabRat]

These laws made to prevent children from working.
If they manage to escape brainwashing camps they have two options, to work or to gang up, hang around corners aimlessly, die from boredom and eventually turn into street gangs. What is better from State’s point of view, working children or street gangs? Rhetorical question. Look around and you’ll see what is happening. Certainly street gangs are better, so we have child labour laws.

[lukesh]

There education would be affected by it too.

[the sole liber]

Originally posted by lukesh
There education would be affected by it too.

Huh, so?

Why can't a child do a menial job like working in a shop or something?? It would teach them the value of work!

[lukesh]

Originally posted by the sole liber
Huh, so?

Why can't a child do a menial job like working in a shop or something?? It would teach them the value of work! I have NO objections for them working.. i was just suggesting. I'm 16 and used to have a paper round and would like a job.

[the sole liber]

It would be better than families starving!

Child labour legislation should be relaxed.

[Renzo]

You know you really do push this free market with no rules thing too far. Child Labour would lead to children being exploited for minimal payment. Just look what the big clothes company's are doing in Asia.

[the sole liber]

Originally posted by J
That's a common occurence?

It may not be, but surely you don't dispute economic differences between families?

You know you really do push this free market with no rules thing too far. Child Labour would lead to children being exploited for minimal payment. Just look what the big clothes company's are doing in Asia.

Maybe different cultures have differing methods of treating children, I don't know. In many cases it's because families are too poor to support themselves!

[Renzo]

Originally posted by the sole liber
It may not be, but surely you don't dispute economic differences between families?



Maybe different cultures have differing methods of treating children, I don't know. In many cases it's because families are too poor to support themselves!

Many of these family's still suffer poverty though because these multi nationals pay these kids mere pennys a day. They don't care about the childrens wellfare, only making a maximum profit.

[the sole liber]

Average wages differ from country to country. So by British standards it may be 'slave wages' but in other countries it may not be.

[Aladdin]

Why stop at letting them work monocrat? Why not allowing the kid's parents to sell his or her body to local paedophiles? I mean, so long as the kid agrees, it doesn't amount to anything more than a private transaction between consenting individuals. Right?

[morrocan roll]

i think we should build institutions for the right wing debilitated ...like an asylum you know ...
these people don't just not give a fuck about anything but their own comfort ...they are incapable of seeing beyond that.
i could quite easily be persuaded to pick up a gun and become a freedom fighter ...oops ...terrorist ...to get shut once and for all!
my mind has boggled again! but that was anothrer thread.

[the sole liber]

Sorry but paedophiles would be prosecuted against in a libertarian society, if they violate childrens' rights to person.

[morrocan roll]

Originally posted by the sole liber
Sorry but paedophiles would be prosecuted against in a libertarian society, if they violate childrens' rights to person. what are you on about now ...?

[Godders]

I think compulsary school should stop at the age of 14. So children can choose what subjects they would like to do and concentrate on them for thier future careers. And if children would like to work then let them do it if it works under health and safety ofcourse!

[Namaste]

Originally posted by the sole liber
If a family is poor then why can't they send their children to work??! It would earn extra money for the family!

Because the family gets child support, the youth doesn't need to work.

Uh oh... benefits come from theft! (aka taxes)

[the sole liber]

Benefits for people who can't help themselves??

In that case, the children SHOULD work!!:yes:

[wheresmyplacebo]

well im sure you think so but the problem is that well poor parents would have to send their kid to work instead of school so they wouldnt recieve an education as they do in lots of countries and land up as cleaners all theirlives who cant read and write and do basic things

children shouldnt need to work, you do enough of that yor whole life, that when you should be learning things for the sake of learning them and learning social skills

i am for activities such as scouts, cadets etc because they teach the kid what a bit of effort can do and helps with growing up :D

[Aladdin]

Originally posted by the sole liber
Benefits for people who can't help themselves??

In that case, the children SHOULD work!!:yes: Since the NHS is currently a benefit to you, I trust you will be refusing any further treatment and "help yourself" instead- or go private.

[paperBprincess]

i think they should step up the child labor legislation, or at least introduce a compulsary minimum wage for under 18's rather than the so-called guidelines they have now.
at age 14 i was working for £2.50 an hour at the weekends with no lunch break.

when kids are old enough they can get jobs but there are rules and regulations to make sure they arent over worked.

in any caes, would you want an 8 year old serving you in a shop?

[Whowhere]

I know, lets just send them down the mines, it'll keep them off the streets.
WAIT, let's give them rifles and send them as cannon fodder to Iraq.:rolleyes:

[Kermit]

Originally posted by Whowhere
WAIT, let's give them rifles and send them as cannon fodder to Iraq.:rolleyes:

We already do. Amnesty Internation regularly complain about the children in the British Army- someone who is 16 is only a child still.

[Renzo]

Originally posted by Kermit
We already do. Amnesty Internation regularly complain about the children in the British Army- someone who is 16 is only a child still.

old enough to die for ones country but not old enough to have a say in how it is governed :rolleyes:

[the sole liber]

Originally posted by Aladdin
Since the NHS is currently a benefit to you, I trust you will be refusing any further treatment and "help yourself" instead- or go private.

Non sequitur.

in any caes, would you want an 8 year old serving you in a shop?

Why not? It's not my child; therefore I'm not obligated to care for it.

[Whowhere]

Originally posted by Kermit
We already do. Amnesty Internation regularly complain about the children in the British Army- someone who is 16 is only a child still.

http://www.learndirect-advice.co.uk/helpwithyourcareer/jobprofiles/profiles/

As for actually fighting, noone under 18 is given a rifle and sent to the front lines.

[Aladdin]

Originally posted by the sole liber
Non sequitur. Oh I think not.

[crossfire]

fuck free trade!!

[paperBprincess]

Originally posted by the sole liber

Why not? It's not my child; therefore I'm not obligated to care for it.
so you'd trust them to get your change right and not sit there scoffing stuff etc?

i know i wouldnt.

[Man Of Kent]

Originally posted by the sole liber
Why the need for child labour laws??

If a child wants to work then why not??

Damn right. I have a chimney which needs cleaning.

Have you read any Dickens?

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by the sole liber
Why not? It's not my child; therefore I'm not obligated to care for it.

You must have a very bleak lonely view of life.

[the sole liber]

Originally posted by Blagsta
You must have a very bleak lonely view of life.

Sorry, but I'm correct! A child is primarily the PARENT'S responsiblity! Not mine.

Oh I forgot, we live in a society and we have to care about everyone, be they stranger, friend or foe!:lol: :rolleyes: :p

[Blagsta]

We, as a society, have a duty of care to others in society.
Unless you subsribe to Thatcher's view that "there is no such thing as society".
Which you obviously do. Which is why I think you must have a lonely life.

[Man Of Kent]

Originally posted by the sole liber
Oh I forgot, we live in a society and we have to care about everyone, be they stranger, friend or foe!:lol: :rolleyes: :p

You don't have to care about them, but you have a duty not to exploit them.

[Namaste]

I wonder how many kids actually want a job at such a young age anyway? I mean there are paper rounds and the like...

[the sole liber]

Originally posted by Blagsta
We, as a society, have a duty of care to others in society.
Unless you subsribe to Thatcher's view that "there is no such thing as society".
Which you obviously do. Which is why I think you must have a lonely life.

Shit am I a Thatcherite.:cool:

[the sole liber]

Originally posted by Man Of Kent
You don't have to care about them, but you have a duty not to exploit them.

Duties and obligations often have a basis!

I have no 'duty' to some slapper's little child.

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by the sole liber
I have no 'duty' to some slapper's little child.

Aahhh, sexist as well. Not a very nice person are you?

[the sole liber]

Heh, most people I know in real life say I'm nice.

I'm friendly and an amiable person.:cool:

If I don't come across as that online, then tough!:p

[Aladdin]

It'll be tougher for you when you get banned a second time...

[the sole liber]

Originally posted by paperBprincess
so you'd trust them to get your change right and not sit there scoffing stuff etc?

i know i wouldnt.

If they do that, discipline them or sack them!

Is being reprimanded for not doing your job properly such a far out, peculiar notion?! :p :rolleyes: :yeees:

[LabRat]

This all is just a theory.
Did anybody work at the school age and know what these laws are in practice? I did and I know. They are not for protecting me it's as clear as God's blue sky.

[the sole liber]

Originally posted by Man Of Kent
Damn right. I have a chimney which needs cleaning.

Have you read any Dickens?

Yes, but if that child wants a job then so be it!

[Whowhere]

No, you dont get it. Child workers are nearly always exploited. There are no laws governing breaks or pay, so if what you wanted to happen came true then the economy would collapse thanks to the army of 14 year old workers working 9 hours a day at £1.50 an hour.

[the sole liber]

Originally posted by Whowhere
No, you dont get it. Child workers are nearly always exploited.

So?

There are no laws governing breaks or pay, so if what you wanted to happen came true then the economy would collapse thanks to the army of 14 year old workers working 9 hours a day at £1.50 an hour.

If some children want to stay in school, fine. Why can't others work??

[Jaloux]

The society as a whole benefits from making kids go to school rather than work. Education makes countries rich, exploiting their children doesn't.

[Aladdin]

Because we say so.

[the sole liber]

Originally posted by LabRat
This all is just a theory.
Did anybody work at the school age and know what these laws are in practice? I did and I know. They are not for protecting me it's as clear as God's blue sky.

Few school children who work 'get exploited'. Safety regulations at workplaces apply to them too, you know!

[Man Of Kent]

Originally posted by the sole liber
Few school children who work 'get exploited'. Safety regulations at workplaces apply to them too, you know!

Plainly bollocks. Minimum wage doesn't apply to under 16s

[the sole liber]

What the heck does a minimum wage have to do with safety??

[Man Of Kent]

Originally posted by the sole liber
What the heck does a minimum wage have to do with safety??

It doesn't, but it does have to do with exploitation.

[the sole liber]

Teens DON'T DESERVE equal minimum wages!!

They have fewer respsonsibilties than adults. They often have no family to look after, mortgage/rent to pay, car to maintain, etc.

There SHOULD be no minimum wage anyhow!

[Aladdin]

There should be no wage higher than other, regardless of the position held in the company anyhow.

[the sole liber]

There are no laws governing breaks or pay, so if what you wanted to happen came true then the economy would collapse thanks to the army of 14 year old workers working 9 hours a day at £1.50 an hour.

How can extra workers make an economy collapse??!

If anything MORE people pay tax (notwithstanding the immorality of taxation) and would spend things.

[Whowhere]

Because, you idiot, if an employer had a choice between employing an adult he had to pay £4.50 an hour for, and a child who he could employ for £1.50, who do you think he would employ?

No minimum wage eh? Do you work? From the sounds of it I don't believe you do. Tell you what, I'll set up a new buisness gassing sheep. You can be my lackey clearing up all the faeces and I'll pay you £0.50 an hour for your trouble.
Whats that, you want breaks? Well fuck you, you can work all day without so much as a toilet break. If you need to go then piss yourself.

Aladdin, a system whereby everyone got paid the same would collapse and you know it. Where would the incentive be to become management, or join the police, or become a doctor if you know the sod who mops the floors gets paid the same?

[Aladdin]

Originally posted by Whowhere
Aladdin, a system whereby everyone got paid the same would collapse and you know it. Where would the incentive be to become management, or join the police, or become a doctor if you know the sod who mops the floors gets paid the same? I know that (though resent it). But my statement was a direct reply to monocrat's "there should be no minimum wage".

[wheresmyplacebo]

Originally posted by Whowhere
Aladdin, a system whereby everyone got paid the same would collapse and you know it. Where would the incentive be to become management, or join the police, or become a doctor if you know the sod who mops the floors gets paid the same?


he said ud get paid according to level of responsibility but the same level in different profession wuld pay the same if i got what he said

[the sole liber]

Originally posted by Whowhere
Because, you idiot, if an employer had a choice between employing an adult he had to pay £4.50 an hour for, and a child who he could employ for £1.50, who do you think he would employ?




Children may not make up the majority of people in a workforce! Some jobs are based on one's skill level, so a child might not qualify.

[Blagsta]

You really are barking mad aren't you?

[TheKingOfGlasgow]

I actually read this thread in disbelief at sole liber's remarks... :no:

[LabRat]

Originally posted by Whowhere
Because, you idiot, if an employer had a choice between employing an adult he had to pay £4.50 an hour for, and a child who he could employ for £1.50, who do you think he would employ?

No, it is you who is an idiot. ( it seems the word idiot is not rude here anymore….)Your ignorance in economics is shocking. Minimal wages create unemployment, it is an axiom. If minimal wages are so nice why not to do it like &1000 an hour? Think logically! Imagine what would happen in this case. Current minimal wages have the same effect, just in less scale.
Originally posted by Whowhere

No minimum wage eh? Do you work? From the sounds of it I don't believe you do. Tell you what, I'll set up a new buisness gassing sheep. You can be my lackey clearing up all the faeces and I'll pay you £0.50 an hour for your trouble.
Whats that, you want breaks? Well fuck you, you can work all day without so much as a toilet break. If you need to go then piss yourself.

Don’t make me laugh! Where the hell can he find such a fool?
Again, think logically. The most workers have wages much higher than minimal. In NZ minimal wage is $8.50 while skilled workers in construction get $15-20 and more. What make employers pay these wages if they are not forced by govt to do this? It seems you believe in omnipotence of king’s orders. But it’s not kings but market who dictates wages and prices and all the King's horses and all the King's men can’t change its decisions. There are lots of people working illegally for wages lower than minimal ( I did), sometimes the whole industries stand on this like picking oranges in America. The only effect of kings’ orders is that it’s much harder for these people to find a job.

[Blagsta]

If you freemarket lunatics had your way, we'd still be shoving children up chimneys.

[Aladdin]

Originally posted by LabRat
Minimal wages create unemployment, it is an axiom. By the same reasoning high CEO salaries and bonuses also create unemployment. Imagine all the extra workers that could be hired if those good-for-nothing fat parasites sitting in boardrooms all day long had their massive wages cut by 90%.

[the sole liber]

Originally posted by TheKingOfGlasgow
I actually read this thread in disbelief at sole liber's remarks... :no:

Why? They are honest opinions!!

[Blagsta]

They're barking mad opinions!

[LabRat]

Originally posted by Blagsta
If you freemarket lunatics had your way, we'd still be shoving children up chimneys.
Of course! Kids are small so it's their natural business. But don't make illusions, you'd pay them A LOT!
To Aladdin. Do you seriously don't understand why ones earn more than others or you just pretend to be a dummy?

[Aladdin]

And don't you seriously understand why the minimum wage is both necessary and beneficial for everyone or are you just in denial?

[Namaste]

Originally posted by LabRat
No, it is you who is an idiot. ( it seems the word idiot is not rude here anymore….)Your ignorance in economics is shocking. Minimal wages create unemployment, it is an axiom.

Don't see how... I mean either way how many people are unemployed and not actively looking for work? You'd think the minimum wage would be an incentive really because they wouldn't be exploited. Either way... whether it's a good idea or not, people need money to eat, drink and sleep under a roof as well as support their family.

[LabRat]

Originally posted by MoonRat
Don't see how... I mean either way how many people are unemployed and not actively looking for work? You'd think the minimum wage would be an incentive really because they wouldn't be exploited. Either way... whether it's a good idea or not, people need money to eat, drink and sleep under a roof as well as support their family.
Well, look how it works.
Minimal wages hit small business in first turn. Small businesses exist on the verge of bankruptcy, every little change of market situation can either push them up or kick them out of market. If some small shop has three employees who get minimal wages and then govt puts the plank higher, what are the owner’s options? He can’t afford pay this new wage so he have either to fire one of them ( that means more work for him and members of his family who are not employees from legal point of view) or close down the business or work illegally. In first two cases this mean more jobless, in third one this means more risk and more uncertainty.
Now look at this from other side. Who are these people who work for small wages? Teenagers, uneducated and unskilled people, people with bad health, immigrants not knowing the language well, retired people who want extra cash to their pensions. Shortly, the less protected and weakest part of the population. Now, when new wages are established, places where they were welcomed before are closed for them. Instead to have small earnings they have no earnings at all. They also won’t find a job in big and medium companies because a demand on unskilled workers in these sectors is much less.
It is not just a theory, I know these things from my own experience and experience of my friends.

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by LabRat
Of course! Kids are small so it's their natural business. But don't make illusions, you'd pay them A LOT!
To Aladdin. Do you seriously don't understand why ones earn more than others or you just pretend to be a dummy?

Do you read Robert Heinlein books by any chance?

[LabRat]

I did read his books when I was a kid. So what?
I read a lot of things you have no idea about. Did you read the best communist utopia ever written? I'm talking about Ivan Efremov's books "Galaxy of Andromeda" and especially " The Hour of Bull"? If you never read this stuff you can't judge what communism idea is about.

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by LabRat
I did read his books when I was a kid. So what?


Thought so. I read his books as a kid as well and had some of the same opinions as you do as a teenager. As I got older, I realised that people and life are a lot more complicated, and libetarian economics are far too simplistic. As is anarchism.

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by LabRat
Did you read the best communist utopia ever written? I'm talking about Ivan Efremov's books "Galaxy of Andromeda" and especially " The Hour of Bull"? If you never read this stuff you can't judge what communism idea is about.

LOL! :D :rolleyes: