Returning to an old theme.

[LabRat]

I’m talking about Aladdin’s topic ‘Is Bush the most dangerous and useless President in history? It seems so’
One guy whose opinions I take bloody seriously has made this ranking list of American presidents. I am not an expert in American history but facts I know confirm he is right.

Presidential Ranking
Categories
1 Mostly Harmless Best
2 Trouble Maker
3 Self Serving Scum
4 Incarnation of Evil Worst


# Name Ranking Major Crimes
1 George Washington Trouble Maker overturned Confederation
2 John Adams Mostly Harmless
3 Thomas Jefferson Trouble Maker Louisiana Purchase, national bank
4 James Madison Mostly Harmless
5 James Monroe Mostly Harmless
6 John Quincy Adams Mostly Harmless
7 Andrew Jackson Trouble Maker Indian slaughter, Spoils system, Calhoun
8 Martin Van Buren Mostly Harmless
9 William Henry Harrison Mostly Harmless
10 John Tyler Mostly Harmless
11 James Knox Polk Mostly Harmless
12 Zachary Taylor Self Serving Scum Mexican-American war
13 Millard Fillmore Trouble Maker imperialist, fugitive slave act
14 Franklin Pierce Mostly Harmless
15 James Buchanan Trouble Maker indecisive, stoked fire of civil war
16 Abraham Lincoln Incarnation of Evil Civil War, death of federalism, virtual dictator
17 Andrew Johnson Trouble Maker reconstruction
18 Ulysses S Grant Trouble Maker key player in Civil War, reconstruction
19 Rutherford B Hayes Mostly Harmless
20 James A Garfield Mostly Harmless
21 Chester Alan Arthur Mostly Harmless
22 Grover Cleveland Mostly Harmless
23 Benjamin Harrison Trouble Maker trust acts, proto-socialist
24 Grover Cleveland Mostly Harmless
25 William McKinley Self Serving Scum Spanish American War, imperialism
26 Theodore Roosevelt Self Serving Scum anti-capitalist, imperialist, eco-freak
27 William Howard Taft Mostly Harmless
28 Woodrow Wilson Incarnation of Evil income tax, WWI, UN, prohibition
29 Warren Harding Mostly Harmless
30 Calvin Coolidge Mostly Harmless
31 Herbert Hoover Self Serving Scum Idiotic economic manipulations
32 Franklin D Roosevelt Incarnation of Evil Yalta, Pearl Harbor, WWII, New Deal
33 Harry S. Truman Self Serving Scum Hiroshima, Potsdam, Korea
34 Dwight D Eisenhower Trouble Maker Big spender, more govt
35 John F Kennedy Trouble Maker RICO act, labor laws
36 Lyndon B Johnson Self Serving Scum Vietnam, war on poverty
37 Richard Nixon Self Serving Scum drug war, EPA
38 Gerald Ford Trouble Maker generally incompetent and corrupt
39 Jimmy Carter Self Serving Scum bureaucracy increase, big spender, taliban, contras
40 Ronald Reagan Trouble Maker drug war, defense budget
41 George H Bush Self Serving Scum Gulf War, taxes
42 William J Clinton Self Serving Scum gun laws, mini wars, spending
43 George W Bush Self Serving Scum Iraq, terror laws, spending


He thinks the main villains were 1.Lincoln 2. Franklin D. Roosevelt 3. Wilson.
The best ones ( sorry, the least harmful ones) were 1.Van Buren 2.Cleveland 3.Madison.
So Bush is not the worst, just average crap.
What do American guys think of this?

What a similar list of British PM’s would look like?
(whatever you think I’m sure Ashley was an Incarnation of Evil. Blood of at least a million of Russian slaves of Nazis’ camps is on his hands. Plus he is the founder of British Welfare State and massive nationalization. These two things are tightly connected of course.)


I

[LabRat]

Sorry, I meant Clement Atlee!
My so called education....

[morrocan roll]

Originally posted by LabRat
Plus he is the founder of British Welfare State and massive nationalization. These two things are tightly connected of course.)


I i'm sad to see my favourite american president on the baddies list ...jimmy carter.
as for the welfare state i'm all for it ...it distributes billions of quids
...billions of quids changing hands from the bottom back to the top is a brilliant idea. it goes to those at the bottom and works it's way from the streets through the shops and banks etc. take that money out and a lot of people would be out of work through loss of jobs and the crime rate would rocket.
nationalisation has a big part to play. our water, power and transport should not be owned and run by people from all over the planet.
in the paper the other day ...the first islamic investment something or other now own large chunks of our electricity supply.
not a good idea. they also now own 40 % of the wind farm business ...meaning they might be planning to speed those things up real high and fast and fly the uk into a building!

[Toadborg]

Taking a wil guess would the person who compiled this list have somewhat right-leaning, neo-liberal, libertarian sympathies?

FDR the 2nd worst president? I don't know that much about US history but that strikes me as being utter bollocks.

I think most Brits who know much about it would rate Attlee very well on the domestic front at least, people like the NHS and the welfare state for some reason :rolleyes: ...............

[Clandestine]

He's also completely wrong about Carter having anything to do with the Taliban or the Contras, both of which were Reagan's pets since they arose in the 1980's not the 1970's. Carter was another who should be listed as harmless.

And for bureaucracy increases noone tops Dubyah, who has created the largest single institutional increase in the history of the nation (the DHS with some 170,000 staff).

[LabRat]

Originally posted by morrocan roll
i'm sad to see my favourite american president on the baddies list ...jimmy carter.

A quote from Counterpunch (www.counterpunch.org)

Now they've given Jimmy Carter the Nobel Peace prize. Who knows? The DC Sniper may have first started to cook back in Carter time, when Jimmy said America would not stand idly by while Nicaragua tried to set forth on a different path after they threw out Anastasio Somoza.
.Carter told the Sandinistas they had to retain the National Guard, which had been Somoza's elite band of US-trained psychopathic killers. The Sandinistas said No. So Carter ordered the CIA to bring up the officers and torturers running the Argentinian death squads to train up a force of Nicaraguan exiles in Honduras, and launch them on terror missions across the border. They called them the Contras.
Carter was a busy man. Not just content with forming the Contras, he harkened to the pain of South Korea, where workers and peasants were demonstrating. His envoy, Richard Holbrooke advised the South Korean military to hit back hard, and they did, killing around 3,000, the most horrible massacre since the Korean war. And yes, Carter started the covert CIA operation in Afghanistan, rallying the mujiddeen to fight the Soviets. Soon the CIA would bring Osama bin Laden to Afghanistan to lend a Saudi presence and Saudi cash.
Now he's a peace prize winner. He's been campaigning for it for years. He's a white male American with the blood of thousands on his hands. So how could he miss, unless the Peace Prize Committee had decided to abbreviate the whole process and give it to George Bush. Maybe next year, though Ariel Sharon is the next in line.
I understand it is sad, I went through such things studying history of my country. History is the most painful and frustrating of all sciensies if you is not satisfied with official school mythology and look in depth.

[Clandestine]

My apologies, I stand corrected on Carter. Kudos!

Nonetheless, Reagan had more illicit activity (like illegally disregarding the Congressional ban on funding of the Contras and the training and backing of Bin Laden).

Carter is cited in that article for backing the mujahadeen not the Taliban which was not formally created by Mullah Omar until 1994 (taking power as a government in 1996).

http://www.ezresult.com/article/Taliban