Has the Hutton changed your opinion on the government and the BBC?

[Aladdin]

I know there are a couple of Hutton threads going but as newspapers conduct nationwide polls I'd like to see the opinion of Siters here.

This is a multi-answer poll so you can vote on both the government and the BBC. Off you go!

[The Doc]

The BBC same as ever. The Government, even less. The whole thing is like an episode of Spooks.

[budda]

I was deeply saddened by the whole thing when it first came out, but now I think its so one sided that the government is actually going to come out worst.

I think this whole thing to blow the other way, I'm hoping the BBC will come through this attack and it will make them even fiercer about their independance.

There is also a LOT of people who want to see the BBC independant, if this isnt handled completely fairly by the government then there could well be uproar.

Radio 4 listeners for example, there's what 2 million of them, thats far more than what is needed to swing an election!

[Man Of Kent]

Both the same.

Always held the Govt (of any colour) in contempt, Hutton hasn't changed that. Also the BBC, I;ve never really held them in contempt but ultimately they are a journalitic organisation who has an agenda to push. My personaly experience of journalists generally, including some BBC, doesn't give me any faith in an media organisation.

Oh, and I just sit back an laugh at those people who were fooled by Blair and voted for him. I never have and never will. John Smith might have got a different approach, but I have always felt that Blair was a man who will smile to your face whilst stabbing you in the back. Smarmy, slimy git - teflon coated...

[Aladdin]

Bliar has actually achieved what I thought was impossible. He has got me wishing that practically anybody (and yes, that includes the Tories) were in government instead of him. I would not vote for the Tories, simply because I do not agree with many of their policies, but it has now reached the point were if I could only choose between the Tories and New Labour I'd choose the Tories. This latest incident has finally tipped the balance.

Well done Tony!

[morrocan roll]

tony blair may well be a tory lawyer but he has changed this country out of all recognition from the dark days of the tories.
he may be a lying bastard but i think you'll find they alll end up having to be. john smith were he still alive would be up for similar accusations and contempt by now. i hope gordon brown gets the job ...but watch how he turns into a lying back stabbing scumbag.
there seems to be no way that you can hold such high office and remain mr nice guy ...mr clean. if any of you lot got the job ...you too would end up a lying squirming little shit.

[Man Of Kent]

Totally agree Mr Roll. Power corrupts...

Yet I still couldn't bring myself to vote for the Tories either...

[Char_Baby]

i havent trusted the government since iraq and tony blair jumping up bush's ass, this has made me trust them a whole lot less, and i still trust the bbc. i really dont want to see tony blair in power after the next general election

[LadyJade]

I agree too Mr Roll. There is something intrinsically wrong with a system that ensures that those in power have to manipulate, machinate and compromise to stay in power and maintain any kind of integrity - but what is the alternative?

[budda]

Well in my 'Democracy I dont trust the public' thread a while ago I suggested that I run as part of a benevolent dictatorship, but I didnt get many takers.

[LadyJade]

I missed that one Bong, I must have been on hols... Count me in...

[Clandestine]

The alternative would be a massive public uprising demanding an end to all corporate influence (financial, lobbying rights, etc..), by law, upon the political process (something i want to see more so in the US) and the institution of a public non partisan body not tied to the establishment which would be fully authorised to scutinise all activites of the government and with the judicial authority on behalf of the people to remove without appeal any and all politicians who lie, spin or attempt to connive the public in any way to serve their own (not the public's interest).

That would be the ultimately check on power and would end the cozy elite control of the system which keeps bring us full circle into these same messes, era after era.

[LadyJade]

So public apathy and the self interest of the power elite is all we have to contend with then......

[Man Of Kent]

Originally posted by Clandestine
the institution of a public non partisan body


Surely members of the public also have political views, would this affect their approach?

[Aladdin]

If you were to get one or several people from different political leanings you could just about get a fair and balanced independent body.

Perhaps one step in the right direction would be to ban donations to political parties. This would mean public funding (i.e. taxpayer footing the bill) but I for one think it would be money well spent.

Like Clan says there is already too much influence by private corporations and lobbying groups. Look at the US: many policies are heavily influenced by Big Business.

I now have a genuine fear for the impartiality of the BBC. Can anyone really say for sure that the BBC will not be influenced by whoever is appointed to run it next? Or that that BBC will continue its sharp journalism without fear?

I think everyone needs to lend its support to the BBC right now and send a very clear message that interfering with the independence and integrity of Auntie will not be tolerated.

[Man Of Kent]

Originally posted by Aladdin
If you were to get one or several people from different political leanings you could just about get a fair and balanced independent body.

How do you know their political leanings - don't you think that this would become corrupt?

Perhaps one step in the right direction would be to ban donations to political parties. This would mean public funding (i.e. taxpayer footing the bill) but I for one think it would be money well spent.

Agreed

Like Clan says there is already too much influence by private corporations and lobbying groups. Look at the US: many policies are heavily influenced by Big Business.

Agreed.

I now have a genuine fear for the impartiality of the BBC. Can anyone really say for sure that the BBC will not be influenced by whoever is appointed to run it next? Or that that BBC will continue its sharp journalism without fear?

I disagree. Such an allegation has been made everytime an new Chair has been appointed.

Both the previous Chair and Greg Dyke were seen as Labour's lapdog when they were appointed. Would you say that same thing now?

As for reporting, all this case has shown is that the journos need to back up their story before broadcast and not to imply things from what is said to them...

I think everyone needs to lend its support to the BBC right now and send a very clear message that interfering with the independence and integrity of Auntie will not be tolerated.

I agree.

[Clandestine]

Corruption could be avoided by not allowing for repeated terms. It would be a purely public body with a mandate and composition that would be renewed every year or two years.

No entrenchment means little value for special interests to try to sway it (although its members could be kept from special interest influence by establishing its isolation from the system itself in its charter).

Then again, its only power would be that of scrutiny, a watchdog if you will. Should it find cause for judicial repercussions it could pass its findings on to the courts.

What i have long held in this regard though, is that such public scurtiny should be made of all branches of government, not merely the executive. So the Supreme Court too would be brought to heel to serve the public as it should rather than those who appointed them (as is most often the case).

[Aladdin]

I thought I'd share some Guardian readers' wisdom on the Hutton affair. They sum up my feelings pretty effectively:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/letters/story/0,3604,1135778,00.html

[Kermit]

Originally posted by morrocan roll
i hope gordon brown gets the job

Why, do you seriously think that Brown is better than Blair?

It's a well-known fact that New Labour is *not* Blair's doing by himself- Brown was instrumental in creating New Labour too, he just doesn't dress it up in poncey language.

And as for Brown not being back-stabbing- :lol:

I don't think Smith would have been this bad, his attitude was that the Kinnockite party just needed to be tweaked a bit, and with some good electioneering they'd have got into power.

For anyone who has an ATHENS account, this explains a lot. (http://www.ingenta.com/isis/searching/Availability/ingenta;jsessionid=33i4d6x07dhtk.circus?pub=infobi ke://bpl/poqu/2003/00000074/00000002/art00001&targetId=1075571254980)

[Clandestine]

How bout reposting the link for all of us who aren't subscribers?

[Kermit]

Originally posted by Clandestine
How bout reposting the link for all of us who aren't subscribers?

It's a .pdf file from one of the academic journals, I don't think I can re-post it.

I'll have a play and see what I can do:)

[RiSe & ShIne]

The Government less, the BBC the same as before.


Blair just got let off a wee bit too easily for my liking.

[Whowhere]

The government have lied to us so much.
I am PRAYING for the day that the Queen says to Tony "You're sacked" and removes the government from power.
I think it's very convienient that the report absolves the government of any guilt whatsoever, where it is still plain as day to the public that the government is full of habitual liars.

As for top-up fees, I just think that it is also very strange that the opposistion can go from having a majority to losing by 5 people in one day, and the LEADER of the opposistion suddenly changes his mind at the last minute.

This government is a shambles, and i hope Tony or one of his fuck buddies is reading this.

[Aladdin]

I don't know when it was filmed but a new series of Bremner, Bird and Fortune starts tonight at 8 on Channel 4. It should be an interesting one to watch...

[*DEVIL*]

BBC more Government WAY less
It was the top up fees that did it for me

Tony Blair is a filthy, slimy toad! his whole nature scares me, they all act like kids in a playground the example to show kids!

[Braineater]

I think that we should have national service radio and tv (in case of emergencies etc) but I don't think the license fee justifies such crap as Gimme Gimme Gimme (old example)and that mortuary of a show, Eastenders:)

Little Britain's the only real gem to come out of BBC3. And 5 minutes of silence comes out of BBC4 (even if they show quality like Threads).

However, the government has no right to threaten the journalistic independance of the BBC even if it does get it wrong.

Questions are left unanswered, people have lost their jobs simply by doing them. Mr Blair - the public wants answers from you not some Lord you appointed to give them!

[Kermit]

Originally posted by Braineater
Little Britain's the only real gem to come out of BBC3.

Have you not seen Monkey Dust?

Oh, and Little Britain started on Radio Four:p

I used to think that the BBC was a huge waste of money, and in a lot of (EastEnders-shaped) ways it still is. But now Murdoch seems determined to get the place shut down I have to like them, even if I find the BBC grossly over-funded and under-controlled fiscally.