Is Bush the most dangerous and useless President in history? It seems so

[Aladdin]

The Independent has released a report on the chimp's first term in office. It makes for frightening reading indeed:

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=482947

I know we don't have many regular Bush lovers in here, but I would really love to see anyone defending his record in office so far...

[Toadborg]

Strangely however he reamins favourite for the next elections......:confused:

[budda]

Interesting reading, if perhaps with a little bias.

The reason he is probably going to win the next election is that there are too many Democrate candidates, there are 9 arent there?

As for the job figures, I thought the so called 'jobless recovery' isnt as bad as they had thought and the employment figures werent actualy that bad, maybe I was wrong.

[Toadborg]

Well consider that 2 million jobes lost is not as big a deal in the US as it would be in Britain. Still pretty serious but probably not serious enough to be a major factor..........

[Char_Baby]

i dont believe in conspiricy theories, but if bush gets re-elected i think i will start to

[budda]

I've always thought conspiricy theories were rubbish too, but the more I learn about The Project for The New American Century the more I think its bloody scary, except they arent in any way secret about it.

[Aladdin]

If Bush is re-elected (or to be precise elected, since he didn't win the first time around) then some very serious questions should be asked of the American public.

Although on the other hand it might all boil down to brainwashing and misinformation. Notice how according to the article 45% of Americans believed just before the war started that Saddam Hussein actually had something to do with 9/11. Which in effect means that either 45% of Americans are a sandwich short of a picnic (which I don't believe) or they have been lied by government and media to such extent that they are incapable of seeing/knowing what's been happening around them.

[Char_Baby]

Originally posted by Aladdin
If Bush is re-elected (or to be precise elected, since he didn't win the first time around)

your right there, do you think al gore would have made a better job of it? ive always thought dubya was a weasel, very tricky and cunning

[budda]

I've just thought, what about Nixon, surely Dubya isnt anywhere near as evil as him.

[Aladdin]

I think a tub of lard would have made a better job of it, let alone Al Gore.

[Clandestine]

Dubyah himself is too much of a dolt and a pampered spoon-fed American prince to compare with Nixon's megalomania, but those who make the real decisions behind the scenes in this administration are many times more calculating, power hungry, and conspiratorial about their machinations than Nixon and his lot ever were.

[Man Of Kent]

Originally posted by Clandestine
those who make the real decisions behind the scenes in this administration are many times more calculating, power hungry, and conspiratorial about their machinations than Nixon and his lot ever were.

Does one of them smoke, by any chance? ;) :p

[Clandestine]

Sorry MoK, you lost me on that one.

[Man Of Kent]

X-Files reference...

[Aladdin]

http://x-files.host.sk/csm.jpg

[Renzo]

Surely noone needs a newspaper article to tell them how useless and dangerous 'president' Bush is:p

[morrocan roll]

nixon was just your average bent politician compared to the lot in the white house now. bush and his bots are exceptionaly dangerous.
remember pissinthepot and others ...we'd spend forever asking why they believed hussien had anything to do with new yoork ...then ages explaining why he wasn't ...they could not get their heads round it at all. america has been a truly great country so it's no wonder the people believe in it so much. the 21st century agenda goes right over their heads it would seem.
one word from the american press and the people were queing for survival equipment ...only in america. the land of the free has become the land of fear ...overnight. that is fucking scary.

[The Matadore]

Bush will hammer any democratic candidate he faces.

And I will laugh.

[Aladdin]

Would that be in the same way as he hammered Al Gore in 2000?

And what would you laugh Mat? Have you actually read the article? Can you find or think of a single positive thing the lunatic has done?

[Aladdin]

LOL. Yes indeed. Thanks to Dubya good old Steve Bell has been inspired to brighten the mornings of half million people every day. :D

[The Matadore]

Yes, ive read the article.

Its completly one sided and utterly biased. But I wouldnt expect anything less from the Independent.

Can you find or think of a single positive thing the lunatic has done?

Plenty, but whats the point you will always come up with the negatives and ignore the positives.

Al Gore in 2000?

Gore actually stood a chance, these poor in fighting democrats dont.

[morrocan roll]

Originally posted by The Matadore



Plenty, but whats the point you will always come up with the negatives and ignore the positives.



cop out. we all said bush was lying about every aspect of iraq ...you all defended him. still going to defend that crAP? there are so many negatives ...please give some positives ...

[Clandestine]

Ahh i see, MoK. No don't need such conspicuous characters to understand that power politics is by its very nature conspiratorial. Just look at the history of conspiracies that were exposed and youll perhaps come to understand that many many more aren't thanks to "plausible deniability" and the age old smokescreen of "national security".

[Dear Wendy]

My teacher (who's also pretty anti US foreign policies) told us, that the interesting thing is not to find anti-american in papers with a left-wing agenda, cause basically they do nothing else.

[BlackArab]

To be honest I don't really care about his domestic policies, just the foreign ones. This country is just as bad as we (ok the government) back him all the way.

I have been guilty of not using my vote in the past but last year remind me why its so important.

[morrocan roll]

Originally posted by BlackArab
This country is just as bad as we (ok the government) back him all the way.

and cos of that ...for the first time in labour history the labour party ...or tony bliar ...has to hope and pray that bush and his ilk get back in!!!!!!

[piccolo]

Originally posted by bongbudda
Interesting reading, if perhaps with a little bias.

The reason he is probably going to win the next election is that there are too many Democrate candidates, there are 9 arent there? Well, yes, but the point of primaries is to narrow it down so they don't split the vote. Interesting that Iowa rejected Dean - the Democrat head honchos do think he's too far left to be electable, so I wouldn't be surprised if we see more Kerry victories.

[piccolo]

Originally posted by Jacqueline the Ripper
My teacher (who's also pretty anti US foreign policies) told us, that the interesting thing is not to find anti-american in papers with a left-wing agenda, cause basically they do nothing else. The Independent isn't too left-wing. You'd expect Bush-bashing from the Guardian, though. The best unbiased read seems to be the Economist (albeit slightly right-of-centre).

[Aladdin]

Not quite piccolo. Any newspaper or broadcaster that ever dares to tell us of any wrongdoing by the US government is clearly a rabid anti-American left wing loony enterprise that cannot be taken seriously.

Oh, and if the newspaper/broadcaster happens to be American as well, add the charge of high treason to it.

[Dear Wendy]

Originally posted by Aladdin
Not quite piccolo. Any newspaper or broadcaster that ever dares to tell us of any wrongdoing by the US government is clearly a rabid anti-American left wing loony enterprise that cannot be taken seriously.

Oh, and if the newspaper/broadcaster happens to be American as well, add the charge of high treason to it.
Grow up, will you?

[Clandestine]

Originally posted by piccolo
Well, yes, but the point of primaries is to narrow it down so they don't split the vote. Interesting that Iowa rejected Dean - the Democrat head honchos do think he's too far left to be electable, so I wouldn't be surprised if we see more Kerry victories.

You should be aware that even Clinton only won 3% of the vote in the Iowa Caucus in his first Presidential race in 1992 and we all know how far he went.

Dean isn't out of the contention by a long shot, he'll just have to redouble his efforts.

http://chblue.com/artman/publish/article_3635.shtml

[Man Of Kent]

Originally posted by Aladdin
Any newspaper or broadcaster that ever dares to tell us of any wrongdoing by the US government is clearly a rabid anti-American left wing loony enterprise that cannot be taken seriously.

Oh, and if the newspaper/broadcaster happens to be American as well, add the charge of high treason to it.

Not fair. There are some newspapers which have an entirely predictable stance on the US, the Inde and Guardian being two - just as the HateMail and Sun have a set stance on immigration.

Just because their views support you own doesn't make them right and it doesn't mean that they are unbiased.

Look at your view of FOX - and News Intl, in general

[Aladdin]

Originally posted by Jacqueline the Ripper
Grow up, will you? It is highly ironic you of all people were to say that Jacqs, considering you must be very familiar with the identical tactics used against those who speak badly of the Israeli government (criticise Sharon's government or army = be branded a Jew-hating anti semite by the right wingers).

Or are you denying the existance of this as well?

You obviously haven’t spent as much time in mil.com as I had thought. That place is a prime example of the treatment anyone, be an individual, non-governmental group, charity, think tank, media publication or even a whole nation who dares to criticize the neo-con Republican government receives from the bushbots.

[Dear Wendy]

Originally posted by Aladdin
It is highly ironic you of all people were to say that Jacqs, considering you must be very familiar with the identical tactics used against those who speak badly of the Israeli government (criticise Sharon's government or army = be branded a Jew-hating anti semite by the right wingers).

Or are you denying the existance of this as well?

You obviously haven’t spent as much time in mil.com as I had thought. That place is a prime example of the treatment anyone, be an individual, non-governmental group, charity, think tank, media publication or even a whole nation who dares to criticize the neo-con Republican government receives from the bushbots.

You know, right now you're setting the level of thsi discussion. Frankly, it's way below me, and don't feel like wasting my time reading your crap. Especially not when I know that you can manage holding a good level of debate, unlike certain others whom I've totally stopped responding to.

[Aladdin]

What ''crap'' are you talking about?

Who was the one asking others to ''grow up'' thus lowering the level of the debate?

I was raising what I believe is a very valid point: the perceived political leanings of newspapers especially when they are talking about certain issues, and the immediate branding they get of "being anti-this and anti-that" by some.

This is a very real issue, and my slightly humorous/sarcastic follow-up to piccolo's comments about your original post do still carry an awful lot of weigh and truth IMHO.

For your information the Independent isn't a left wing newspaper. If it happens to carry an article savaging Bush's record to date is because Bush's record is absolutely appalling to date. To say it any other way would be distorting the truth and being biased.

And to be frank, your original post about your teacher talking about the difficulty of not finding anti-American pieces in "left-wing" newspapers does nothing but to reinforce my comments about being impossible to utter a single word of disapproval against the mighty US government without being branded an American hater.

[Whowhere]

Just goes to show how much you can trust Texan Rednecks.
America will get it's just desserts sooner or later, all the bad vibes it's giving out now will come back on it. Problem is, they'll come back on us too :(

[The Matadore]

Any newspaper or broadcaster that ever dares to tell us of any wrongdoing by the US government is clearly a rabid anti-American left wing loony enterprise that cannot be taken seriously.

Juat like anyone who defends Bush and the US is automatically called a 'Bushbot' and ridiculed as an idiot without 2 brain cells to call his own.


Israeli government (criticise Sharon's government or army = be branded a Jew-hating anti semite by the right wingers).

Thats only happened in a number of extreme cases. Besides, look what would happen in an Arab nation, you would be tortured, then hung or decapitated or whatever. Israel is an ocean of freedom in a sea of tyranny.


a left wing newspaper

What gave you that idea, its as bad as the Guardian.


utter a single word of disapproval against the mighty US government without being branded an American hater

Where do you think up this rubbish? And for the record, you ARE an American hater. From what ive read, you loathe everything America stands for.

[Yerascrote]

the reason why bush says these things is because he comes from a patriotic american background,these people have ideas about life and what terrorism is and it is so fixated into their minds that no1 will ever change them. do u think bush knew afghanistan was one of the poorest countries in the world, do you think bush knew who Al Qaeda where pre-2001, do you think bush had a life long battle against terorism, no, i didn't think so either. bush doesn't care about terrorism, if he did then why are thousands of children running about in fields everyday shooting each other, thousands of children dying of starvation in places like congo, lebanon, colombia and other war torn countries, sure they've sent missonaries and the UN but we never hear of the bravery of Bush intervening in these countres, sending tens of thousands of toops to "liberate" them, its all a popularity stunt that worked with Afghanistan but failed horribly with Iraq when people woke up and realised the truth. Did anyone hear his speech today aswell, i hink he said something like this "we don't need a permision slip to defend our country", ok you fascist bastard dictator, we don't need a permission slip to defend ourselves from Bush, the biggest threat to world peace since the cold war.

[The Matadore]

fixated into their minds

Yeah, well, it became 'fixated' into their minds when some terrorists slammed 3 planes into the US, killing over 3000 people.

do u think bush knew afghanistan was one of the poorest countries in the world,

Yes.



do you think bush knew who Al Qaeda where pre-2001

Definately.




do you think bush had a life long battle against terorism

What do you mean by this?



if he did then why are thousands of children running about in fields everyday shooting each other, thousands of children dying of starvation in places like congo, lebanon, colombia and other war torn countries

Because the US cant solve the worlds problems. It barely has the resources to fight the threats to itself.


people woke up and realised the truth

People realised the truth on September 11, 2001.


we don't need a permision slip to defend our country

Whats wrong with saying that?



we don't need a permission slip to defend ourselves from Bush, the biggest threat to world peace since the cold war.

:rolleyes:

[Yerascrote]

Originally posted by The Matadore
Yeah, well, it became 'fixated' into their minds when some terrorists slammed 3 planes into the US, killing over 3000 people.

Because the US cant solve the worlds problems. It barely has the resources to fight the threats to itself.

People realised the truth on September 11, 2001.

Whats wrong with saying that?

:rolleyes:

i think you deliberately said those things to start an argument, how come it didn't get fixated in their minds when 1 MILLION people were murdered in Rwanda 10years ago an don't ever say America is fighting against terrorism ever again after that second comment, what your basically saiyng is that america needs to take care of itself and it doesn't matter about the rest of us, more, true people would help anyone in a bad situation, just because you are going to a bed tonite doesn't mean you can't help others that aren't,( no wonder 2/3s of the worlds population despise America and their people). You say the truth was learned from 9/11, wat truth is this, the only truth learned tht day was the fact that america is not invincible. you asked what did i mean by saying "life long bttle against terrorism", in every speech george bush makes he says he will defeat terrorism, name ONE major thing george bush did pre-2001 that was designed to prevent terrorism, nothing, there are people all over the world who have lived their whole lives trying to stop terrorism and george bush comes up sayin he is the messiah that will save the world, no more bible belt jargon thank you,you've done nothin to stop terrorism,you've just made it more popular. whats wrong wit saying that you ask again, hmm, let me see, well he's basically saying there that he can do whatever he wants withot anyone's permission, that includes dropping a nuclear bomb, sure why would anyone want to fear george bush.:rolleyes:

[The Matadore]

when 1 MILLION people were murdered in Rwanda 10years ago

Because they were not American citizens. You protect your own citizens first. Genocide in Africa, while terrible, was unstoppable.


an don't ever say America is fighting against terrorism ever again after that second comment,

Why dont you tell me what they are figghting then.


what your basically saiyng is that america needs to take care of itself and it doesn't matter about the rest of us

Yes , but all countries do that. Pull your head out of the goddamned clouds.



more, true people would help anyone in a bad situation

Like who. The French? Did they stop the Rwandan genocide. And i dont see them helping in Iraq. Again, calm down a bit and look at the facts.


no wonder 2/3s of the worlds population despise America and their people

Thats a terrible shame, but people have always hated the most powerful. What gets me is the European Lefts jealousy, it really is pathetic.


You say the truth was learned from 9/11, wat truth is this, the only truth learned tht day was the fact that america is not invincible.

Yes, true , it proved that American security was lax. But it also proved to the American people that terrorism had to be annihilated.


ONE major thing george bush did pre-2001 that was designed to prevent terrorism, nothing

Jesus , he was only elected in 2001 for fucks sake. What can the man do as Governor of Texas against Al-Quaeda terrotists?

, no more bible belt jargon thank you,you've done nothin to stop terrorism,you've just made it more popular

Bible Belt jargon? Since when has he used that in his Presidential speeches? And he HAS taken out 2 terrorists safe havens - Iraq and Afghanistan. He has shown the world that American will not tolerate regimes that harbour terrorists.


well he's basically saying there that he can do whatever he wants withot anyone's permission

He will do what it takes to defend the people he was elected to defend. And whos permission is he going to ask? Yours?

Finally, please use the ENTER button, as slogging through that block of text was hard work.

[morrocan roll]

iraq never suffered from terrorism ...now it's bombs and bloodbaths on a daily basis. iraq and hussien never had any links to terrorism ...were never suspected of having done so and has now been proved to be the case ...time your got your head out of the clouds me thinks.
your going to tell us next that saddam was implicated in 9/11 somehow? like the libyans had the shit blown out of them for the oklahoma bombing ...

[Aladdin]

Originally posted by The Matadore
Juat like anyone who defends Bush and the US is automatically called a 'Bushbot' and ridiculed as an idiot without 2 brain cells to call his own. Well not quite. There is a difference between people who are as happy to point out the many things the US government has done wrong as the ones it might have got right, and the people who refuse point blank to admit the US might be guilty of, say, war crimes, or supreme hypocrisy when it comes to foreign policy.

As someone who is familiar to these boards, may I mention MoK as one example of someone who might sometimes give credit to the US government without ever being branded a bushbot. And that's because he's happy to admit that the US is far from perfect in many other ways.



Thats only happened in a number of extreme cases. Besides, look what would happen in an Arab nation, you would be tortured, then hung or decapitated or whatever. Israel is an ocean of freedom in a sea of tyranny. No, that happens on a bloody daily basis from the Torygraph HQ as well as most US broadcasters and every internet forum under the sun.

As for Israel, well I should not derail this thread too much with it. Suffice to say that far from the "vibrant democracy" some would like us believe the place is, Israel is a two-tier state where if you happen to be part of the lower tier (i.e. Arab) you live in an Apartheid-like hellhole. The freedom you refer to certainly doesn't extend to the Arabs. Or to the children shot to death for throwing stones at armoured vehicles. Or to the people made to queue for up to six hours every day in order to cross a checkpoint and go to work. Or to the countless people made homeless by Israeli bulldozers. Or to the farmers whose vines are uprooted for the sake of it by soldiers. Or to the whole villages that have water and electricity supplies cut off as a 'collective punishment' straight out of the Nazi book.

I have a friend who was given a good beating in the back of an Israeli army van because he was flying the Palestinian flag at a demo in Jerusalem. The blows only stopped when he managed to convince the soldiers he was a Greek national not a Palestinian. Incidents like this and many worse ones are as common as muck, and if you believe Israel is some sort of oasis of prosperity and 'democracy' in an ocean of Arab tyranny you are completely and utterly deluded. Lebanon and Jordan, to name but two of Israel's closest neighbours, are a beacon of human rights and tolerance compared with Sharon's playground.

And in any case, what kind of bullshit is this about "being tortured and hang or decapitated" in Arab countries? You're making Kilroy sound like an intelligent man for fuck's sake!

But I've already drifted for too long, so back to the topic...




What gave you that idea, its as bad as the Guardian. What gives YOU that idea? Regardless of whether you consider the Guardian as bad (as far as I'm concerned is fairer and better than the Torygraph, Times and all the tabloids put together), the Independent is not more left-leaning than the average lamp post.




Where do you think up this rubbish? And for the record, you ARE an American hater. From what ive read, you loathe everything America stands for. I'll tell you what: I'm willing to bet that I've been to the US more times than you have, that I can count more Americans as friends than you can, and that I know and appreciate more about American culture than you do. Prove me wrong.

It is THE US GOVERNMENT I profoundly despise. And not for the sake of it, but because of the cynical, hypocritical, lying, murdering bunch of c*nts they are. And I shall not allow anyone to tell me that my dislike of the current US government can translate into a dislike of America as a country. That's another right winger's little trick that is wearing extremely thin now.

[Man Of Kent]

Originally posted by Aladdin
As someone who is familiar to these boards, may I mention MoK as one example of someone who might sometimes give credit to the US government without ever being branded a bushbot. And that's because he's happy to admit that the US is far from perfect in many other ways.

and I don't like Bush, or much of what he stands for... ;)

I may have supported the lastest war, but he's still an arse (IMHO)...

Don't like Tony Blair much either, still support his attempts to modernise the NHS - would never vote for the man though, nor have I ever.