The new space race?

[budda]

Personally I cant really see the whole space program in any way other than giving big fat contracts to party doners in the US. I understand that the technology that has been achieved is useful, who could live without a pen that writes upside down, but people on Mars, why?

So I've come up with a few things the $20 Billion dollars could be spent on insted. And for the sake of arguement that its going to be spent over 5 years.

You could invest the money, get a 4% return and then give, 438,356 of the worlds poorest families $1 dollar a day, thus in a lot of cases doubling or trebling their income.

Or, just give the money without investing it, and give 10,958,904 families a dollar a day.

Any other ideas?

[Aladdin]

Many people think space exploration is a waste of time and money but I don't see it that way. There are countless things to be learned and gained from widening our knowledge of physics, propulsion, travel, medicine and countless others that space travel provides.

An perhaps sooner than we think we might have to start looking into colonising other planets.

Rather than cutting out the budget of something that will eventually bring many benefits to mankind- even if this will not be evident for some decades- we should demand all those billions and billions spent in hyper-expensive stealth aircraft or useless Star Wars missile shields are used to fight poverty everywhere.

My only concern is that this renewed American interest for space exploration is not only a pre-election stunt but it is also military-driven.

[budda]

Of course, have ou heard about their new stealth bomer, it should be able to bomb ANY location anywhere in the world, from a standing start within 2-3 hours. Quite impressive given that I'm sure they wont declare war on any of the countries they will bomb with this technology.

Like I cant remember them declaring war on, was it Somalia, when they rocketed that car. Actions like that on others soil without declaring war would be totaly unthinkable 50 years ago but now, well who's going to stop them.

[budda]

I do like the story of that space pen though, the US spent loads making a pen that would write upside down, sideways and all that.

The Russians, they used a pencil.

[LonDoNErcHriS85]

Originally posted by bongbudda
[B]Personally I cant really see the whole space program in any way other than giving big fat contracts to party doners in the US. I understand that the technology that has been achieved is useful, who could live without a pen that writes upside down, but people on Mars, why?

errr the russian just used pencils....... says it all about the american attitude...

EDIT: jus noticed bongbudda mentioed that too

[Aladdin]

It might all come down to this:

[budda]

Those possible fosilised bateria that they found on Mars did look like they fancied a burger.

[The Matadore]

Who better to push back the frontiers than the restless American pioneer spirit?


military-driven.

Why not? its the logical next step in warfare, space based weapons.

And if America doesnt exploit space, China certainly will.

And id much rather it be the Americans.

[Aladdin]

Actually you will find that for a change all nations concerned have kept a pact whereby the space is kept demilitarised- a pact that has worked very well and has kept space weapons-free even at the height of the Cold War where nukes were put on everything imaginable from planes to boats to shells to submarines to missiles.

The pact is still keeping the heavens free of weapons and it would be breathtakingly stupid of the US to abandon the pact and create yet another arms race. They've done enough damage already with their stupid yet utterly useless Star Wars programme and their tearing up of all the non-proliferation treaties and nuclear test bans.

China is not going put weapons up in space. No one is, unless the chimp decides to give his friends in the weapons industry yet another backhander and goes for a militarised space. In which case within a few years the sky will be bursting with American, Russian and Chinese nuke-armed satellites.

[morrocan roll]

the same argument about the cost of space exploration is the same argument that was pushed in the past about sending out explorers on the high seas to see what was beyond the horrizon.

i'll put money on it that the american reason for wanting now to put a base on the moon is purely military. first one to put a colony there with earth aimed missiles as well as near space targeted ones will own the moon and the desired satelite orbits of the earth. if the chinese try to get there ...they wont be allowed. whoever builds a weapons base on the moon ...with a bushbot attitude rules space for the forseable future.

[Clandestine]

Frankly I would argue that we have more than enough ills to deal with in our own society here on earth to be embarking on such pie in the sky projects (as we did with Star Wars during the Reagan Era) as moon bases. These billions would be better served in addressing housing, education, healthcare, alternative energy sources, and a host of issues to reduce poverty.

Its all an election stunt and one which underscores how wasteful the right can be even whilst it lambasts the left as being all about "tax and spend". Hypocrits the lot of them.

[The Matadore]

Clandestine, wheres your sense of adventure?

Housing and health etc etc is all dull dull dull.

I for one want to see a man on Mars within 10 years.

[Aladdin]

I agree with Mat about space exploration and adventure. You could call it selfish, but I for one would love to see man land on Mars and establish a base on the Moon even though the benefits to mankind would not be so apparent at first.

I firmly believe in space exploration, and even though I will never see it (and my grandchildren's grandchildren won't see it either) the single most important day in the history of mankind will be when we first establish contact with another form of intelligent life.

I would not call housing and health 'dull' issues. They are extremely important and deserve full finding- I just don't like to see science and space exploration be neglected because of it.

[The Matadore]

They are extremely important and deserve full finding


Who cares?? Theyre dull!!

[Aladdin]

The Conservative party is the dullest thing on earth. Can we get rid of it? :D ;)

But anyway, dull or not dull provisions for health and space exploration can co-exist. There are many other ways of finding funding, other areas where money can be cut.

[DG]

There's supposed to be some kind of mineral only found on the moon that can be used to make electricity.

100 tonnes would be enough to power the USA for a whole year and another 100 tonnes the rest of the planet.

If that's true then that's a pretty good reason to go to the moon, as oil won't last forever!!

[morrocan roll]

Originally posted by DiamondGeezer
There's supposed to be some kind of mineral only found on the moon that can be used to make electricity.

100 tonnes would be enough to power the USA for a whole year and another 100 tonnes the rest of the planet.

If that's true then that's a pretty good reason to go to the moon, as oil won't last forever!! you'vebeen reading comics mate.
the truth is that all the other planets are either dead or out of reach.
lets say we get ten men living on mars ...in a glass bubble that would have to be regulary stocked from mother earth ...how do you propose they expand any further? no rivers ...no insects to digest and mulch ...no breathable atmosphere ...ten men stay in there glass bubble until differing situations on earth cannot supply them any longer ...for fucks sake we haven't learned how to live here yeyt\! feed people two years away when we can't feed people here ///
you cannot just go to mars and create living conditions for man ...rivers ...soil with all the right insects etc ...a breathable atmospher ...i could go on but whats the point ...ten guys living in a bubble would need earth contact and supply well beyond the next million years.

[Aladdin]

Actually you could. There is water on Mars' polar caps, and more importantly scientists believe there might be some water deposits buried just a few metres of the surface in many areas across the planet.

If the water issue is solved then it is perfectly possible and within reach to create a self-sufficient colony. Energy will come from the Sun, food from vegetable gardens and small animal farms.

[The Matadore]

The Conservative party is the dullest thing on earth. Can we get rid of it?

The Tories aint dull! Look at all the back stabbing and political in fighting! Edge of the seat stuff!

[Aladdin]

Actually you might be right. :D

[ladymuck]

All this talk of Mars makes me weep, destroy Earth, cut down the rainforests, pollute the seas, pollute the air and a few astronauts on Mars is supposed to give us hope??? Or maybe GWB needs to refresh his Presidential profile for the next elections?

[morrocan roll]

Originally posted by ladymuck
All this talk of Mars makes me weep, destroy Earth, cut down the rainforests, pollute the seas, pollute the air and a few astronauts on Mars is supposed to give us hope??? Or maybe GWB needs to refresh his Presidential profile for the next elections? hello and wellcome ladymuck.
my sentiments entirely.
it's all bollox anyway. his father said the same thing at election time ...we are going to mars ...nothing came of it.
this time though ...i believe it to be nothing more than the militarisation of the moon and space.
THEY WON'T BE GOING TO MARS!
we have an incredible jewel of a planet here with oceans and rivers and a mass of interdependant life forms ...but yyes ...the attitude with lots of people is that they believe we can move house and just let this one burn.
idiots.

[Whowhere]

I think the genuine exploration of space is a noble cause, and hopefully one will that will lead to a race to develop new technologies.
As for the military applications, yes weapons based on the moon will allow the USA to gain a significant first strike advantage, but when Russia and China respond all that will be left IS the base on the moon.
It won't do them much good in the aftermath, M.A.D and all that.

[Captain Slog]

The last manned mission to the moon happened before I was born. Having missed all of that I want to see a man on Mars in my lifetime.The Tories aint dull! Look at all the back stabbing and political in fighting! Edge of the seat stuff! Yes, we rock!http://www.stopstart.freeserve.co.uk/smilie/rocker.gif

[Namaste]

Shouldn't they be investing in renewable energy and cleaning up the planet?

[Whowhere]

The mineral on the moon is known as helium-3, an essential catalyst for cold fusion reactions.
A few molecules will be enough to power the USA.

Moonrat, cold fusion is the holy grail of energy production. Imagine the power of the sun, confined to a reactor delivering power across the entire planet.
Scientists say that a single cold fusion reactor can generate enough energy to power Europe with none of the radiation of a Fission reactor.
http://physicsweb.org/article/world/12/3/8

[budda]

Isnt cold fusion a bit like saying hot ice?

I understand the very basics of fusion power and it has got good potencial, its just keeping it in place and not burning everything around it to dust within 1 millionth of a second.

[Clandestine]

I wouldn't expect the oil and gas companies to allow cold fusion to become a viable alternative energy source in our lifetime. Moreover, with the money they hand out behind closed doors to our political establishments, I wouldn't expect it to gain too much sympathy in the halls of power either.

Just another laudible pipedream put forward to keep the masses chattering about anything other than the issues most affecting us in the here and now.

[Whowhere]

It's in the oil companies best interests to invest in other forms of energy. If they don't change with the times they'll all go bust when we do finally run out of oil.
Shell for instance have quite a large stake in the windfarms dotted around the UK, or so I've heard.
Think about it, if you were the MD of a large oil company facing extinction in 15 years time, what would you do?

As for cold fusion, yes the name is a bit misleading. The actual reaction that takes place is very hot, at the Tokomak test reactor in the USA they have registered tempratures of well over 1 million degrees celsius, contained via magnetic fields. Cold fusion is a more controlled reaction and is substantially cooler and easier to harness....that is if we ever create the technology.
If not then hot fusion will suffice.

[morrocan roll]

fusion fucking fusion fuckining confusion! nuclear energy ...safe and cheap! what will be the problems they haven't yet sussed or have decided not to tell us about?
the magnets fail and ...whooosh ....manchester melts! it's bollox.

[Whowhere]

I think if we will soon be able to send cheap rockets into space, what's the harm of dumping nuclear waste on a planet like Venus or Jupiter, somewhere that will never hold an ounce of life...?

[morrocan roll]

Originally posted by Whowhere
I think if we will soon be able to send cheap rockets into space, what's the harm of dumping nuclear waste on a planet like Venus or Jupiter, somewhere that will never hold an ounce of life...? good idea in theory but ...in reality a number of our expensive rockets and space ships explode just after take off ...

[Whowhere]

we'll get there in the end, or we'll start building massive microwave power plants in space.

[morrocan roll]

Originally posted by Whowhere
we'll get there in the end, or we'll start building massive microwave power plants in space. fucking long way to go to warm up a meat pie though.