What is "political correctness"?

[Blagsta]

Because people keep telling me that I'm "politically correct" but I really have no idea what they mean.
If it means being respectful of other people and not using offensive language such as ****** and paki then I'm all for it.

But rants about "political correctness" seem to be lazy shorthand by rightwingers when they don't have a coherent argument about anything.

Can anyone enlighten me? :confused: :confused: :confused:

[Kermit]

I think basically political correctness basically means too afraid to say anything about anything for fear of offending people, and castigating everybody else for not being complimentary about everything.

I thinks its best shown in examples, like banning "baa baa black sheep" for fear of offending black people, removing the term "Christmas" from official functions or publications for fear of offending non-Christians, changing the name "disabled" to "differently-abled" in order to be more "inclusive", its taking tact to ridiculous extremes.

Its basically not being allowed to say anything about anyone in case someone, somewhere, might be slightly offended. And it generally only ever works one way- against white people.

I dont think youre politically correct, given all that.

[Blagsta]

Has baa baa black sheep been banned? By whom?

I'm aware that one year Birmingham City Council experimented with a Winterval festival rather than calling it a Xmas fair or whatever, which maybe was a tad misguided, but I can see the thinking behind it, given that Birmingham has a very wide ethnic and religous makeup, and the fact that Xmas has very little to with Christianity these days anyway.

And who actually uses terms like "differently abled"?
I do see the thinking behind it, but ime, no one actually uses these terms, these stories are mostly made up by the rightwing tabloid press.

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by Kermit
I dont think youre politically correct, given all that.

Why do some people on here keep saying that I am then?

Major Tom? Care to comment?

[BlackArab]

The trouble is the whole scare thing about pc is pathetic. Its gone from being a joke about American colleges to become some of out of control monster threatening w.a.s.p's.

Its amazing the amount of times I've had conversations with people about this and laughing at how sad it is to be honest. Whether its someone doing or stopping something because it MIGHT offend an ethnic minority :nervous: (shame nobody ever gets around to actually asking us).
or the hilarious anti-PC stories in papers like The Mail which so often like last years 'Hot X buns banned' story are later to revealed to be untrue or badly distorted.

Can people not see that the majority of what is talked about regarding political correctness has no foundation and is complete crap?

[Major Tom]

i think pc means changing or tampering with things ( usually language) in case they offend minorities. the reason a lot of people including myself despise it, is that;
1/
it usually originates from white liberals, often in local government positions, who think they are doing minority groups a favour. i seriously doubt minorities are even consulted.

2/ no-one asks for it, it is forced on people. anyone who disagrees is branded intolerant, racist, sexist etc.

3/ it forces us to dwell on our differences. pc damages race relations because it claims everyone is equal, but then states; joe bloggs gets special treatment because he is......

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by Major Tom
i think pc means changing or tampering with things ( usually language) in case they offend minorities..

So we should be able to use the words n.igger and paki and wog and cripple and queer f.aggot with impunity then?

Originally posted by Major Tom
the reason a lot of people including myself despise it, is that;
1/
it usually originates from white liberals, often in local government positions, who think they are doing minority groups a favour. i seriously doubt minorities are even consulted.

Does it? Examples please. And how come you brand me as being politically correct when I'm not politically really a Liberal and I don't work in local government.

Originally posted by Major Tom
2/ no-one asks for it, it is forced on people. anyone who disagrees is branded intolerant, racist, sexist etc.

Again, what is "it"? You haven't defined "it". And give me examples of where "it" is forced on you.

Originally posted by Major Tom
3/ it forces us to dwell on our differences. pc damages race relations because it claims everyone is equal, but then states; joe bloggs gets special treatment because he is......

We are different though. We are equal but different.

And who gets special treatment exactly? Examples please.




It just seems to be that you're really complaining that you are not allowed to use words like paki anymore.

[Kermit]

Originally posted by Blagsta
Has baa baa black sheep been banned? By whom?

It was, by Brum again I think. It was one of the "Loony Left" lot anyway.

And even this year one of the LBCs (I think it was Haringay) stopped the works Christmas do being called a Christmas do "Because not everyone is Christian".

And who actually uses terms like "differently abled"?

One sees it a lot in official council literature. Far too often.

I see the point of it all, and I think that people should be more aware of others' feelings, but I suppose its what Ive said elsewhere- I dont like being told what to think, and how to think it. And besides which, a lot of it is meaningless- it doesnt matter whether I use the "PC" terms or not, I can still be a vile racist if Im moronic enough to want to be.

[Kermit]

Originally posted by Blagsta
So we should be able to use the words n.igger and paki and wog and cripple and queer f.aggot with impunity then?

Thats not really the point, its more terms like "black" becoming labelled racist in some quarters.

A person can be anti-PC and pro-racial equality, y'know.

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by Kermit
It was, by Brum again I think. It was one of the "Loony Left" lot anyway.

Really? First I heard of it and I lived in Brum for nearly 10 years andf have many friends with kids at school there.

Most of these stories were made up by the rightwing tabloids.

Originally posted by Kermit
And even this year one of the LBCs (I think it was Haringay) stopped the works Christmas do being called a Christmas do "Because not everyone is Christian".

Really? Again, first I heard of it. Got a source for that?

Originally posted by Kermit
One sees it a lot in official council literature. Far too often.

Again, never seen it. Not saying these things don't happen, but I'm not really aware of them.


Originally posted by Kermit
I see the point of it all, and I think that people should be more aware of others' feelings, but I suppose its what Ive said elsewhere- I dont like being told what to think, and how to think it. And besides which, a lot of it is meaningless- it doesnt matter whether I use the "PC" terms or not, I can still be a vile racist if Im moronic enough to want to be.

How are you being told what to think?

[BeckyBoo]

Just a question so dont jump down my throat ok.

Do you think all this PC stuff is making people actually more racist ?
You cant say this or that in fear of offending someone and people now are thinking what the hell can we say. Its like as a white person I cant say anything because someone could hold that against me, bearing in mind we all know how I use words in the wrong way. So I misuse a word and then before you know im im gonna get slaughtered and im talking about this place. Even if i corrected myself I still feel as though if im taken the wrong way then people here would class me as a 'racist' and we all know mud sticks.

[Kermit]

Originally posted by Blagsta
Got a source for that?

"Rotten Boroughs", Private Eye.[/B][/QUOTE]

[Dear Wendy]

Originally posted by BeckyBoo
Just a question so dont jump down my throat ok.

Do you think all this PC stuff is making people actually more racist ?
You cant say this or that in fear of offending someone and people now are thinking what the hell can we say. Its like as a white person I cant say anything because someone could hold that against me, bearing in mind we all know how I use words in the wrong way. So I misuse a word and then before you know im im gonna get slaughtered and im talking about this place. Even if i corrected myself I still feel as though if im taken the wrong way then people here would class me as a 'racist' and we all know mud sticks.

Yes. Just look at Major Tom/*DEVIL*/whoever it is who's posting under those names.
Show a minimum of tolerance towards other cultures in their posts, and state themselves that PCness has gone wild.

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by BeckyBoo
Just a question so dont jump down my throat ok.

Do you think all this PC stuff is making people actually more racist ?
You cant say this or that in fear of offending someone and people now are thinking what the hell can we say. Its like as a white person I cant say anything because someone could hold that against me, bearing in mind we all know how I use words in the wrong way. So I misuse a word and then before you know im im gonna get slaughtered and im talking about this place. Even if i corrected myself I still feel as though if im taken the wrong way then people here would class me as a 'racist' and we all know mud sticks.

I'm not gonna jump down your throat.

But I still don't know what this "PC stuff" is. It seems to be mostly a myth put across by the rightwing media as a stick to beat the left. And its working. But its just that - mostly a myth.
Why is not using words like paki, n.igger or f.aggot a problem for some people?

And Becky - "Its like as a white person I cant say anything because someone could hold that against me", sorry but I don't understand. Please give me an example. :confused:

[BlackArab]

Originally posted by Kermit
It was, by Brum again I think. It was one of the "Loony Left" lot anyway.

And even this year one of the LBCs (I think it was Haringay) stopped the works Christmas do being called a Christmas do "Because not everyone is Christian".

[b]

One sees it a lot in official council literature. Far too often.

I see the point of it all, and I think that people should be more aware of others' feelings, but I suppose its what Ive said elsewhere- I dont like being told what to think, and how to think it. And besides which, a lot of it is meaningless- it doesnt matter whether I use the "PC" terms or not, I can still be a vile racist if Im moronic enough to want to be.

We are constantly told what to think from different aspects of society, so what? doesn't mean we have to listen or even pay attention let alone get angry.

A lot of it is meaningless because so much of it was made up. Haven't you ever heard of those books were for satire the authors made up pc phrases for common terms eg 'follically-challenged' = bald. These phrases are still being used as genuine examples of pc.

Talk about life imitating art.

[Dear Wendy]

Actually there's stating your opinion with tact and reason, and there's being downright crude about it.
People don't want to be mistaken for obnoxious so they'd rather supress their opinion if it's about a person of another ethnic minority than one's own, so they won't be labelled as racist.

Personally I'd rather people were directly racist instead of hiding it under layers or forced to hold their opinion in - in public, and the doing god knows what in private...

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by Jacqueline the Ripper
Personally I'd rather people were directly racist instead of hiding it under layers or forced to hold their opinion in - in public, and the doing god knows what in private...

I agree with you here.

[Major Tom]

ok blagsta, classic example of pc, and im sure lots of posters have seen this one. imagine you are applying for a job with a big company or a local council. at the bottom of the application form it has a section which says '' bloggs plc is commited to equal opportunities regardless of race, creed, disability etc... please tick the box which best describes your racial origin ( or nationality).''
now, if we are all equal, why does bloggs plc need to know whether you are black, white, asian etc.?
surely they should employ you based on your ability, not the colour of your skin? maybe they have quota's in place, and are following a policy of positive discrimination? now do you see why it is dangerous and divisive?

[Kermit]

Originally posted by Jacqueline the Ripper
Show a minimum of tolerance towards other cultures in their posts, and state themselves that PCness has gone wild.

I think thats the trouble when it comes to criticising PC- most people who do it are bigoted morons, and the press that do it are the usual suspects such as the Daily Mail, The Sun, etc.

The point still stands though. Any sensible anti-PC person wouldnt condone the use of words such as n*gger or spastic, but because they dont see whats wrong with the term "disabled" theyre labelled bigoted.

Im going to ask a question of people like the Doc Horatio and BlackArab- do you object to the term "black"? I suppose sometimes its hard to see if youre being unintentionally racist by using words people might not like, I just wondered if words like that came inot that category?

[BeckyBoo]

Originally posted by Blagsta
"Its like as a white person I cant say anything because someone could hold that against me", sorry but I don't understand. Please give me an example. :confused:

Well im just giving you an example ok but if I said to you "im just nipping to the paki shop on the corner" you would probably jump down my throat but im not saying that like as a racist its just paki shop just comes out I wouldnt say im going to the pakistani shop on the corner. Do you see what I mean ?

oh god i hope that hasnt come across as horrible because I didnt want it to, im finding it really hard to use the right words here.

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by Major Tom
ok blagsta, classic example of pc, and im sure lots of posters have seen this one. imagine you are applying for a job with a big company or a local council. at the bottom of the application form it has a section which says '' bloggs plc is commited to equal opportunities regardless of race, creed, disability etc... please tick the box which best describes your racial origin ( or nationality).''
now, if we are all equal, why does bloggs plc need to know whether you are black, white, asian etc.?
surely they should employ you based on your ability, not the colour of your skin? maybe they have quota's in place, and are following a policy of positive discrimination? now do you see why it is dangerous and divisive?

First up, those ethnic monitoring forms are not compulsory to fill in. Leave it blank if it offends you that much. They are also always detached from your application so no one receives "special treatment".

But the reasons they are there is to make sure that people do get treated equally regardless of race/culture etc.
Different cultures can have subtly different needs and its useful to monitor the demographics of people applying for jobs, because, for instance, the way an advert is worded might be putting a certain group off etc.
It was also brought in as a way to combat the appalling racism that used to exist (and still does in some places, Lambeth council are being investigated at the moment) in a lot of places.

[Dear Wendy]

Originally posted by BeckyBoo
Well im just giving you an example ok but if I said to you "im just nipping to the paki shop on the corner" you would probably jump down my throat but im not saying that like as a racist its just paki shop just comes out I wouldnt say im going to the pakistani shop on the corner. Do you see what I mean ?

oh god i hope that hasnt come across as horrible because I didnt want it to, im finding it really hard to use the right words here.

Even "pakistani shop" is not that clear. I mean, why would one say that? Unless you're going to a special shop who have special spices, pakistani food, whatever connected to pakistan. Don't know. I guess that when you mention a nationality/religion without it having any relevance then it in general won't be viewed as especially tolerant.

Not saying it's wrong. Just unnecessary unless there're two shops next to each other and one is owned by the pakistani. yet still you'd say the paki's/pakistani's shop, wouldn't one do that? Or is it only here?

[BlackArab]

Originally posted by Major Tom
ok blagsta, classic example of pc, and im sure lots of posters have seen this one. imagine you are applying for a job with a big company or a local council. at the bottom of the application form it has a section which says '' bloggs plc is commited to equal opportunities regardless of race, creed, disability etc... please tick the box which best describes your racial origin ( or nationality).''
now, if we are all equal, why does bloggs plc need to know whether you are black, white, asian etc.?
surely they should employ you based on your ability, not the colour of your skin? maybe they have quota's in place, and are following a policy of positive discrimination? now do you see why it is dangerous and divisive?


Maybe people shouldn't jump to conclusions.

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by BeckyBoo
Well im just giving you an example ok but if I said to you "im just nipping to the paki shop on the corner" you would probably jump down my throat but im not saying that like as a racist its just paki shop just comes out I wouldnt say im going to the pakistani shop on the corner. Do you see what I mean ?

oh god i hope that hasnt come across as horrible because I didnt want it to, im finding it really hard to use the right words here.

But the point is that certain words do have racist connotations to them. I'm well aware that a lot of people "ooop north" use the term "paki shop" in a way that they don't perceive as being derogatory, but the point is, that a lot of people do find it offensive. Words have history, connotations, layers of meaning attached to them, they are not simple things.

[edited to add]
BTW do you know that the people who run that shop are actually from Pakistan? The words "paki" or even "pakistani" are often used as lazy shorthand for "brown skinned person from somewhere in the Indian sub-continent", regardless of whether they are from Pakistan, India, Bangladesh or wherever. Can you see why that might be offensive to some people?

[BeckyBoo]

Originally posted by Jacqueline the Ripper
Not saying it's wrong. Just unnecessary unless there're two shops next to each other and one is owned by the pakistani. yet still you'd say the paki's/pakistani's shop, wouldn't one do that? Or is it only here?

but if you did say 'the paki' shop then its classed as racial. Your not allowed to say that no more.

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by BeckyBoo
but if you did say 'the paki' shop then its classed as racial. Your not allowed to say that no more.

Because that word has racist connotations, regardless of the way that you mean it.

[BeckyBoo]

Originally posted by Blagsta
I'm well aware that a lot of people "ooop north" use the term "paki shop" in a way that they don't perceive as being derogatory,

Which is why im saying does all this PC stuff make people more racist. Is it not actually creating problems because people are saying we have said that for years and years and its never been a problem till now ?

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by BeckyBoo
Which is why im saying does all this PC stuff make people more racist. Is it not actually creating problems because people are saying we have said that for years and years and its never been a problem till now ?

How is it making people more racist?
If you talk to the majority of asian's, I'd bet they'd tell you that they have always been insulted by the word paki.

[Major Tom]

if the racial origin section is not compulsory, and is detached, why is it there? pc isn't exclusively about race anyway. i was told off by a lecturer at uni for talking about '' the headmistress at the local school'' the lecturer said '' you mean headteacher'' i replied ''no she is a woman, therefore she is a headmistress'' the lecturer said, '' YOU MUST USE THE CORRECT TERM''
this is the sort of bollocks im talking about. its easy to say just ignore it, but the people who do use it are in positions of influence or power. it is hard to get away from it. i would never use terms like paki or ******, because everyone knows they are offensive, but headteacher? it's gone too far.

[BlackArab]

Originally posted by Kermit
I think thats the trouble when it comes to criticising PC- most people who do it are bigoted morons, and the press that do it are the usual suspects such as the Daily Mail, The Sun, etc.

The point still stands though. Any sensible anti-PC person wouldnt condone the use of words such as n*gger or spastic, but because they dont see whats wrong with the term "disabled" theyre labelled bigoted.

Im going to ask a question of people like the Doc Horatio and BlackArab- do you object to the term "black"? I suppose sometimes its hard to see if youre being unintentionally racist by using words people might not like, I just wondered if words like that came inot that category?


Be hard to object with my log-in, are you serious? I've never heard of anybody objecting to the word Black.

[Blagsta]

"it's gone too far." LOL!

Why is that monitoring form there? Did you actually read my post? No, thought not.

As for your lecturer at uni...hmmmm...he does sound a bit silly. I've certainly never heard any uni lecturers say anything like that. Sounds like a one off to me, so please give me some more examples where its actually ruined your life as you seem to be making such a big fuss about "political correctness".

[BeckyBoo]

Originally posted by Blagsta
How is it making people more racist?
If you talk to the majority of asian's, I'd bet they'd tell you that they have always been insulted by the word paki.

Im meaning some of the white population. They feel that words like 'paki shop' which they have used for many years not in a racist way, now are words that you are not allowed to say. So within a neighbourhood you always going to have the trouble makers who will say "I say what I want to say" and so in effect they take any anger they have actually out on the shop keeper in person.
I think that this episode to do with Kilroy could cause a lot of racial problems. I understand he should have used his words better and be more tactile. He now faces an enquiry and his show is axed. Now many people will see this as PC gone wrong and I think some Arabs could be on the receiving end of trouble from the idiots who give us a bad name. They could take their anger out on the arabs when its not their fault that Kilroys show was axed.

[BlackArab]

Originally posted by BeckyBoo
Which is why im saying does all this PC stuff make people more racist. Is it not actually creating problems because people are saying we have said that for years and years and its never been a problem till now ?


I was told of for saying Paki when I was 7 because it was offensive, Becks and you know how old I am!!!
It creates problem using this term so isn't it best for people to be told this.

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by BeckyBoo
Im meaning some of the white population. They feel that words like 'paki shop' which they have used for many years not in a racist way, now are words that you are not allowed to say. So within a neighbourhood you always going to have the trouble makers who will say "I say what I want to say" and so in effect they take any anger they have actually out on the shop keeper in person.

But the words have racist connotations regardless of the way they are meant. Is it too much to ask to people not to use language like that in a way that might offend people?

Originally posted by BeckyBoo
I think that this episode to do with Kilroy could cause a lot of racial problems. I understand he should have used his words better and be more tactile. He now faces an enquiry and his show is axed. Now many people will see this as PC gone wrong and I think some Arabs could be on the receiving end of trouble from the idiots who give us a bad name. They could take their anger out on the arabs when its not their fault that Kilroys show was axed.

So what you're saying is that we should not tackle people on their racist attitudes in case some thugs attack some people because of it. Sorry, but thats pretty twisted thinking.

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by BlackArab
I was told of for saying Paki when I was 7 because it was offensive, Becks and you know how old I am!!!
It creates problem using this term so isn't it best for people to be told this.

I was certainly aware of the connotations of the word "paki" in the 1970's as a child.

[BeckyBoo]

Originally posted by BlackArab
I was told of for saying Paki when I was 7 because it was offensive, Becks and you know how old I am!!!
It creates problem using this term so isn't it best for people to be told this.

oh yeah im not disputing that im agreeing, but its the minority who dont accept it which then gives more people a bad name. These are the idiots who decide to smack someone just for the hell of it.
Some people only need an excuse to cause trouble. Its the same as football matches you have the genuine supporters and the idiots who want to brawl.


Blagsta again im saying some of the trouble makers could decide to start hitting on arabs purely as an excuse. We all know trouble makers will use any excuse to have a go at someone, so lets just assume on a night out there is a group of drunker arseholes they
could decide to just attack an Arab for the hell of it because this story with Kilroy is so big. They see Kilroy as being unfairly treated so who do they take their anger out on ?

I think if the show had not been axed and they did an enquiry things might not be so bad. My concern is for the people out there who may be arabs, I just feel like the mindless idiots could take their anger out on the wrong people.

[Blagsta]

So we shouldn't tackle racism because of what a minority of thugs might do?

Hmmmmm.

[BeckyBoo]

Originally posted by Blagsta
I was certainly aware of the connotations of the word "paki" in the 1970's as a child.

but is that the area you were brought up in ? You have to remember my area is prodominently white and as a kid I only ever saw Asians who worked in the corner shop.

[BeckyBoo]

Originally posted by Blagsta
So we shouldn't tackle racism because of what a minority of thugs might do?

Hmmmmm.

oh god im not saying that.

I give up trying to explain.

Im thinking of the Asian/Arab or whatever nationality, you know your mates who happen to be black/asian who are minding their own business and get set upon because some idiots feel that kilroy has been unfairly treated (or cases like this)
Lets not forget just because you think he has got what he deserves there are going to be a lot more who think he has been unfairly treated.

[Blagsta]

but is that the area you were brought up in ? You have to remember my area is prodominently white and as a kid I only ever saw Asians who worked in the corner shop.

I grew up in west London, nearish to Southall so maybe.
But thats not really the point - the point is that it is a word with racist and offensive connotations, regardless of how you mean it when you say it. Is it really too much trouble to not use it?

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by BeckyBoo
oh god im not saying that.

Sounds like it.

Originally posted by BeckyBoo
Im thinking of the Asian/Arab or whatever nationality, you know your mates who happen to be black/asian who are minding their own business and get set upon because some idiots feel that kilroy has been unfairly treated (or cases like this)
Lets not forget just because you think he has got what he deserves there are going to be a lot more who think he has been unfairly treated.

Still sounds like (reads like?) it.

I can't read it any other way. :confused:

We shouldn't criticise Kilroy for fear of what some idiots might do.

Thats what you're saying.

[BeckyBoo]

Originally posted by Blagsta
I grew up in west London, nearish to Southall so maybe.
But thats not really the point - the point is that it is a word with racist and offensive connotations, regardless of how you mean it when you say it. Is it really too much trouble to not use it?

but i used it as an example ? I dont personally come out with it and no its not too much trouble to stop using it. But again your gonna get the idiots who say "fuck you i will say what i want"

oh dear now i know why never to get into deep debate, im always getting taken the wrong way.

edited to add :
Wheres kermit when you need him :lol:

[Major Tom]

the essence of pc is promoting minorities while at the same time denigrating the majority culture. the majority in this country are white christians. dont you remember the carol service flyer which was taken down in case it offended non christians? ALL religions in the area condemned this as totally unescessary. pc benefits no one. that story was reported by the bbc as well as the hatemail and the torygraph. read animal farm; ''all animals are equal, but some are more equal than others''.

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by Major Tom
the essence of pc is promoting minorities while at the same time denigrating the majority culture. the majority in this country are white christians. dont you remember the carol service flyer which was taken down in case it offended non christians? ALL religions in the area condemned this as totally unescessary. pc benefits no one. that story was reported by the bbc as well as the hatemail and the torygraph. read animal farm; ''all animals are equal, but some are more equal than others''.

Concrete examples, not hearsay please.

[Aladdin]

The thing Becky is that even though you don't use the word with racist connotations and you might use it perfectly innocently with your family or friends, anyone who doesn't know you might take it the wrong way. And since it is well known that Asians do take offence at the word, is simply best use it only with close family and friends if one must use it at all.

It's all about respecting the wishes of others I guess. Many Jewish people call each other 'yid' in a light-hearted kind of way, just as some black people might call each other n*gg*r. So one could be tempted to think that since they call each other that for a laugh it should be okay for you to use that term as well. But the fact is they found find it offensive so it's best left alone.

Tottenham Hotspurs has a sizeable Jewish support. They often describe themselves as ‘Yid Army’ and ‘the yids’ at games. However if rival fans shout ‘the yids’ at them it would be considered offensive.

[BeckyBoo]

Originally posted by BeckyBoo
Just a question so dont jump down my throat ok.

Do you think all this PC stuff is making people actually more racist ?
You cant say this or that in fear of offending someone and people now are thinking what the hell can we say. Its like as a white person I cant say anything because someone could hold that against me, bearing in mind we all know how I use words in the wrong way. So I misuse a word and then before you know im im gonna get slaughtered and im talking about this place. Even if i corrected myself I still feel as though if im taken the wrong way then people here would class me as a 'racist' and we all know mud sticks.

Just wanted to bring my 1st post up in this thread the way I have used my words in the last few posts has shown how easy it is to get misunderstood purely because im not to clever at explaining myself.

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by BeckyBoo
But again your gonna get the idiots who say "fuck you i will say what i want"

Yes you are. But that is no reason to not be respectful to others is it?

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by BeckyBoo
Just wanted to bring my 1st post up in this thread the way I have used my words in the last few posts has shown how easy it is to get misunderstood purely because im not to clever at explaining myself.

I'm not accusing you of being racist at all. But I would like an example of this "Its like as a white person I cant say anything because someone could hold that against me".

[BeckyBoo]

Originally posted by Aladdin
The thing Becky is that even though you don't use the word with racist connotations and you might use it perfectly innocently with your family or friends, anyone who doesn't know you might take it the wrong way.

I dont use it, that was an example

oh god, why did I open my bloody gob :lol:

Blagsta its not me who would be disrespectful its the idiots im talking about, every Town/City has them.

[Major Tom]

that's not hearsay, it was widely reported in the media about mid-december 2003. the point i was making is that minorities dont like pc either, which is why when a local council does something daft, they often condemn it. im sure they resent idiots acting on their behalf. if i ran a youth club for example, and you joined up. lets say you're a muslim. i say; '' listen up everybody, this is blagsta. he's a muslim so dont write each other christmas cards or eat a hot dog near him cos he might possibly get upset, and you'll be thrown out if you do.'' everyone would avoid you like the plague, and you would be pissed off with me because of it.

[BeckyBoo]

Originally posted by Blagsta
I'm not accusing you of being racist at all. But I would like an example of this "Its like as a white person I cant say anything because someone could hold that against me".

Well like I wasnt sure of wether to call people black or coloured, now if I said coloured someone could take that the wrong way because they prefer to be called black.
See what I mean, that would be me unintentially offending someone purely because i genuinely didnt know. (I do know now so that aint a problem)

Anyways im off to my pit now :)

[Blagsta]

It may well have been reported in the media. Doesn't mean that it actually happened though. Got a link?

As for your example about the youth club - when does that ever actually happen? I admit that some over zealous patronising idiot might think like that, but I'll bet its rare. And how is that example "promoting minorities while at the same time denigrating the majority culture"?

And how does that tie in with what you said on the Kilroy thread, "i think a lot of people are sick and tired of being silenced because their views do not conform to political correctness."?

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by BeckyBoo
Well like I wasnt sure of wether to call people black or coloured, now if I said coloured someone could take that the wrong way because they prefer to be called black.
See what I mean, that would be me unintentially offending someone purely because i genuinely didnt know. (I do know now so that aint a problem)

Anyways im off to my pit now :)

If unsure, then ask. Most people will not have a problem with it.

[Blagsta]

This makes interesting reading
http://education.guardian.co.uk/egweekly/story/0,5500,688638,00.html
particularly this

David Gillborn, professor of education at the Institute of Education, expresses alarm at what he believes is the real agenda behind such articles. "The term 'race commissars' was invented by the Daily Mail. This is really very scary stuff and worse than I suspected. It seems that an incident has been manufactured around which opposition can be mobilised. It's like all the things that were around in the 1980s with stories about children being banned from singing baa baa black sheep because it was racist. That story was totally untrue, too."

(italics mine)

[Man Of Kent]

Originally posted by Blagsta
I'm aware that one year Birmingham City Council experimented with a Winterval festival rather than calling it a Xmas fair or whatever, which maybe was a tad misguided, but I can see the thinking behind it, given that Birmingham has a very wide ethnic and religous makeup, and the fact that Xmas has very little to with Christianity these days anyway.

So the fact that the majority of Birmingham's population aren't from an ethnic minority doesn't matter then?

The problem with such decisions is that they are made on behalf of a segment of the population who probably weren't offended in the first place.

I was in Leicester last year at the time of the Diwali festival. Some parts of the town were openly celebrating it - a religious festival which had no bearing on my own religious persuation. Was I offended? Should any open display have been banned because I might have been? Of course not.

BTW DId you hear about Lambeth Council's "Not-Christmas" party this year?

[Man Of Kent]

Originally posted by Blagsta
Concrete examples, not hearsay please.

I can't point to the exact Libarary in question, but there was a piece on the evening news on Radio 4 just before Christmas. They even interviewed the head libarian.

Major Tom is correct when he says that the choral society were told that the flyer might offend.

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by Man Of Kent
So the fact that the majority of Birmingham's population aren't from an ethnic minority doesn't matter then?

The problem with such decisions is that they are made on behalf of a segment of the population who probably weren't offended in the first place.

I was in Leicester last year at the time of the Diwali festival. Some parts of the town were openly celebrating it - a religious festival which had no bearing on my own religious persuation. Was I offended? Should any open display have been banned because I might have been? Of course not.

BTW DId you hear about Lambeth Council's "Not-Christmas" party this year?

I did say I thought it was a tad misguided. But I don't think its that important, seeing as the majority of people in this country don't pay any notice of the Christian origins (well, pagan really) of Xmas. Its just a holiday to most people.

No, didn't hear about Lambeth's party.

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by Man Of Kent
I can't point to the exact Libarary in question, but there was a piece on the evening news on Radio 4 just before Christmas. They even interviewed the head libarian.

Major Tom is correct when he says that the choral society were told that the flyer might offend.

But did it really happen the way it was reported? Did you read that link I just posted?

[LonDoNErcHriS85]

Originally posted by Blagsta
Concrete examples, not hearsay please.

erm my hometown in east london in 2002 did just say "happy winter festival" as not to offend non-christians with "merry xmas", im a non christian and dont believe in god, i still say merry xmas to my local indian corner shop owner (and yes he is indian because he's also my neighbour) but i say it out of goodwill and as far as im aware him and his family arent offended by it...

[Blagsta]

Whats your hometown and how exactly did it say "happy winter festival"? In what context? Where?

[Kermit]

Originally posted by Blagsta
No, didn't hear about Lambeth's party.

I couldve sworn I posted it further up the page, but forgot which LBC it was.

And I couldve sworn it was ridiculed as not true.

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by Kermit
I couldve sworn I posted it further up the page, but forgot which LBC it was.

And I couldve sworn it was ridiculed as not true.

I have no idea one way or the other if it happened.
The fact is that a lot of these "its political correctness gone mad!" stories are made up or at least grossly distorted to fit a right wing agenda.

[Kermit]

Originally posted by Blagsta
The fact is that a lot of these "its political correctness gone mad!" stories are made up or at least grossly distorted to fit a right wing agenda.

Of course theyre grossly twisted to fit an agenda, but that doesnt mean that theyre not true. And as I said, I read about this in Private Eye, which tends to be one of the fairest publications around- it certainly doesnt have a right-wing agenda.

The bias works both ways on this issue, as many, IMHO. Those involved with PC will see that The Scum exaggerated or lied once, and use it to try and claim that its always over-exaggerated and false.

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by Kermit
Of course theyre grossly twisted to fit an agenda, but that doesnt mean that theyre not true. And as I said, I read about this in Private Eye, which tends to be one of the fairest publications around- it certainly doesnt have a right-wing agenda.

Fairynuff. As I said, I haven't seen the story so I can't comment.

Originally posted by Kermit
The bias works both ways on this issue, as many, IMHO. Those involved with PC will see that The Scum exaggerated or lied once, and use it to try and claim that its always over-exaggerated and false.

But my point is that "PC", as an agenda of the left, doesn't really exist. Its something trotted by rightwingers who are losing an argument IMO.

[Kermit]

Originally posted by Blagsta
But my point is that "PC", as an agenda of the left, doesn't really exist. Its something trotted by rightwingers who are losing an argument IMO.

I dont think its an "agenda" eitehr, to be quite honest- I dont think people sit down and see what new PC trick they can do now. I honestly believe its an attempt to be socially inclusive to all, but that its a deeply misguided attempt, and one that actually highlights differences, and broadens them, rather than celebrates them, if that makes sense.

The right-wing use it as an attack on the "Loony Left" councils who, Im afraid, are the ones who predominantly do this sort of stunt, and some use it as an excuse to be racist, of that theres no doubt. But the agenda of the critics doesnt make the criticism any less valid.

[Blagsta]

Fairynuff. I just don't see it as much of a problem, mainly because most of the stories about it are made up.

[Man Of Kent]

Originally posted by Blagsta
But did it really happen the way it was reported? Did you read that link I just posted?

Well as the person which Radio 4 were talking to, was the person who made the decision, I'm pretty comforatble with the reporting of this "event"...

Sad but true.

[Blagsta]

Fairynuff.

[*DEVIL*]

Originally posted by Jacqueline the Ripper
Yes. Just look at Major Tom/*DEVIL*/whoever it is who's posting under those names.
Show a minimum of tolerance towards other cultures in their posts, and state themselves that PCness has gone wild.

As i have already stated in most of my posts, my voluntary work requires me to work with many 'diffrent' people. For example the disabled (is that pc enough?). Also just to name some of my good mates, gursharongit, shovan, darshan, sainju, these people are lovely. In fact Shovan is teaching me some ways of nepalise life, language, religion etc.

No I am not really that tolerant, i can see your EXACT point there? :rolleyes:

What I do object to though....Like 97% of British Citizen, is being told how to act around people, so that we do not offend the 'minority', thus making us SCARED to talk to these people!

If people read the full story (all my posts, and actually got to know me they wouldn't make sweeping statements like the one above!)



:lol:

[*DEVIL*]

Originally posted by Blagsta
"it's gone too far." LOL!

Why is that monitoring form there? Did you actually read my post? No, thought not.

As for your lecturer at uni...hmmmm...he does sound a bit silly. I've certainly never heard any uni lecturers say anything like that. Sounds like a one off to me, so please give me some more examples where its actually ruined your life as you seem to be making such a big fuss about "political correctness".

No its not ruined his life, but if you talk to Kilroy at the moment, you may find that it does ruin lives!

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by *DEVIL*
No its not ruined his life, but if you talk to Kilroy at the moment, you may find that it does ruin lives!

So you think that Kilroy should be free to abuse his influential position in the media to spread racist views do you?

[*DEVIL*]

Originally posted by BeckyBoo
oh god im not saying that.

I give up trying to explain.

Im thinking of the Asian/Arab or whatever nationality, you know your mates who happen to be black/asian who are minding their own business and get set upon because some idiots feel that kilroy has been unfairly treated (or cases like this)
Lets not forget just because you think he has got what he deserves there are going to be a lot more who think he has been unfairly treated.

Yeah a lot more like the audience of Sky TV 92% on his side!:eek:

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by *DEVIL*
What I do object to though....Like 97% of British Citizen, is being told how to act around people, so that we do not offend the 'minority', thus making us SCARED to talk to these people!

Who exactly is telling you how to act around "these people"?

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by *DEVIL*
As i have already stated in most of my posts, my voluntary work requires me to work with many 'diffrent' people. For example the disabled (is that pc enough?). Also just to name some of my good mates, gursharongit, shovan, darshan, sainju, these people are lovely. In fact Shovan is teaching me some ways of nepalise life, language, religion etc.

"some of my best mates are black" LOL! :rolleyes:

[*DEVIL*]

Originally posted by Blagsta
So you think that Kilroy should be free to abuse his influential position in the media to spread racist views do you?

I am not even going to argue with you over this, after Major Tom tried maturely to have a debate/discussion with you last night and you thought his views were bullshit. So is there any point! I know what i think, i know my views. Yes i do think he has been unfairly treated, why do people think that as soon as someone is a celebrity, they lose their human rights 9yes the right to freedom of SPEECH!)

[*DEVIL*]

Originally posted by Blagsta
"some of my best mates are black" LOL! :rolleyes:

Never said black I said "different" and before people say i am intolerant to 'the minority' get to know me!

Most problems are caused by peoples ignorance!

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by *DEVIL*
I am not even going to argue with you over this, after Major Tom tried maturely to have a debate/discussion with you last night and you thought his views were bullshit. So is there any point! I know what i think, i know my views. Yes i do think he has been unfairly treated, why do people think that as soon as someone is a celebrity, they lose their human rights 9yes the right to freedom of SPEECH!)

Oh dear. :rolleyes:

Why don't you actually read what I write instead of just reading what you think I write?

That comment about his opinions being "bullshit" was a tongue in cheek comment about opinions in general. If Major Tom is allowed to have his opinions, then I'm allowed to have the opinion that they are "bullshit". See? Jeeez, you need to lighten up a bit.

So tell me...how are Kilroy's views not racist?

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by *DEVIL*
Never said black I said "different" and before people say i am intolerant to 'the minority' get to know me!

Most problems are caused by peoples ignorance!

:rolleyes: x 100000

It was another tongue in cheek comment. I never suggested that you said "black". It was a comment on the fact that a lot of people with slightly bigotted opinons never usually think they have, due to some of their best friends being black/gay/disabled/whatever.

[*DEVIL*]

Originally posted by Blagsta
Who exactly is telling you how to act around "these people"?

The government!, people who know nothing about people skills! thats who!

People like college lecturers, like MT said, however he is a she!

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by *DEVIL*
The government!, people who know nothing about people skills! thats who!

People like college lecturers, like MT said, however he is a she!

Pardon? How exactly are "the government" telling you how to act around "these people"?

[*DEVIL*]

Originally posted by Blagsta
Oh dear. :rolleyes:

Why don't you actually read what I write instead of just reading what you think I write?

That comment about his opinions being "bullshit" was a tongue in cheek comment about opinions in general. If Major Tom is allowed to have his opinions, then I'm allowed to have the opinion that they are "bullshit". See? Jeeez, you need to lighten up a bit.

So tell me...how are Kilroy's views not racist?

Do i have to trawl through old posts to prove a point to you? Like i said i will not comment, because i am either 'paranoid' a 'bnp troll' etc.

I never said best mates, i said that some of my GOOD mates, are from other religions and if i was so intolerant i'd tell them to shove their 'preachings' up their arse, but no i listen, take notes and try to understand their way of life.

While i go off to Brownies to do my good deed, and bit of 'community' work for the night, i leave you with this regime/nation (compare and contrast!)

GOODNIGHT!

[Major Tom]

well blagsta, trevor phillips gets paid about £90,000 more than you to decide who is racist, and even he thinks kilroy IS NOT RACIST, as do most people in this country who have any common sense. next you'll be telling me that the 92% of people who supported kilroy in a recent poll are all racists. sorry, your old and much used trick of branding people just wont wash anymore!

[Blagsta]

Oh look

http://lambcutlet.org/images/missingthepoint.png

Please answer my question. Why should Kilroy be allowed to abuse his position and spread racist views? Or don't you think his views are racist? If you don't, why don't you? Don't you think he is intelligent enough to be able to write an article in a more careful way?

And how is the government telling you how to talk to "these people"? (very telling use of language there actually. "these people", implies that you see them as "other", as not quite your equals, there to be patronised and sympathised with, not empowered.)

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by Major Tom
well blagsta, trevor phillips gets paid about £90,000 more than you to decide who is racist, and even he thinks kilroy IS NOT RACIST, as do most people in this country who have any common sense. next you'll be telling me that the 92% of people who supported kilroy in a recent poll are all racists. sorry, your old and much used trick of branding people just wont wash anymore!

Pardon (again!)? Who's Trevor Phillips? And where did you get that 92% figure from? And why would I think they are all racist?
I'm asking whether *DEVIL* thinks Kilroy's views are racist or not and for a justification. Not whether she is racist or not. See the (not so) subtle difference?

[Kermit]

Originally posted by Blagsta
Who's Trevor Phillips?

Isnt he the Chair of the CRE?

[Dear Wendy]

Originally posted by *DEVIL*
As i have already stated in most of my posts, my voluntary work requires me to work with many 'diffrent' people. For example the disabled (is that pc enough?). Also just to name some of my good mates, gursharongit, shovan, darshan, sainju, these people are lovely. In fact Shovan is teaching me some ways of nepalise life, language, religion etc.

No I am not really that tolerant, i can see your EXACT point there? :rolleyes:



That proves shit. Seriously.
I respect your community work and all, but you having talked to people of another culture/religion/country doesn't prove you to be tolerant, and definitely doesn't make it a given.

Being tolerant doesn't mean, not kicking every dark person you see on the street. Being tolerant is by most an attitude and not an action.

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by Kermit
Isnt he the Chair of the CRE?

I have no idea, thats why I asked.


Actually a quick search reveals that he is. But quite why Major Tom thinks that he doesn't think that Kilroy's article is racist when they have referred it to the police is beyond me.
I'm also curious as to how Major Tom knows how much I get paid. :confused:

Statement from the CRE on Kilroy's article here
http://www.cre.gov.uk/media/nr_arch/2004/s040108.html

Note to people ranting about how the CRE only helps black or asian people - see the paragraph at the bottom regarding prejudice against travellers.

[Major Tom]

now you have missed the point blagsta, trevor phillips is the chairman of the cre, im suprised you didnt know that. you call people racist for nothing, whereas he gets paid rather a lot to do it. trevor's cre statement concerned kilroys remarks in the context of a public order offence, real racists might use it as an excuse to attack arabs. trev didnt at any point claim kilroy is a racist.

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by Major Tom
now you have missed the point blagsta, trevor phillips is the chairman of the cre, im suprised you didnt know that. you call people racist for nothing, whereas he gets paid rather a lot to do it. trevor's cre statement concerned kilroys remarks in the context of a public order offence, real racists might use it as an excuse to attack arabs. trev didnt at any point claim kilroy is a racist.

:confused: :confused:

I am having trouble following the thrust of your argument.
We have established that Trevor Phillips is the chair of the CRE. But in your previous post you stated " and even he thinks kilroy IS NOT RACIST". I am asking how you know this, given that he is asking the police to invesigate it under the Public Order Act, an act which states that it is an offence to "use threatening, abusive or insulting language or behaviour in order to stir up racial hatred, including the distribution of racist leaflets." (source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/crime/prevention/racialharassment.shtml )?

You really think that the CRE are considering prosecuting Kilroy because "real racists might use it as an excuse to attack arabs."?
:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

[edited to add]
BTW how do you know how much I get paid?

[Major Tom]

Does this illustrate the point?

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by Major Tom
Does this illustrate the point?

I'm flattered that you took the time to do that for me.

No, really.

Flattered. :o






















Actually I suggest you either engage with the debate, get a life or shut up.

[*DEVIL*]

Originally posted by Blagsta
Oh look

http://lambcutlet.org/images/missingthepoint.png

Please answer my question. Why should Kilroy be allowed to abuse his position and spread racist views? Or don't you think his views are racist? If you don't, why don't you? Don't you think he is intelligent enough to be able to write an article in a more careful way?

And how is the government telling you how to talk to "these people"? (very telling use of language there actually. "these people", implies that you see them as "other", as not quite your equals, there to be patronised and sympathised with, not empowered.)

Wow i am talking to an artist, ICT technowizzkid! *bows to the superior*

Why should Kilroy be allowed to abuse his position and spread racist views?
He has not abused his position, he is allowed an opinion as much as the next person. Just because he is famous, his rights as a person are not affected.

Or don't you think his views are racist? If you don't, why don't you?
I dont think his view are racist, all he has done is to critisise aspects of another culture, which many people find abhorrent.

Don't you think he is intelligent enough to be able to write an article in a more careful way?
He has spoken for the silent majority, who are afraid to express their views, because people like you do not like them. He has made a stand for freedom of speech.

And how is the government telling you how to talk to "these people"?
The government, through local government, publishes guidelines for inclusivity. City councils have committees, which monitor their literature, for language which could offend minorities. Also, under current legislation a racial abuse incident is deemed to be any incident where the victim feels that the incident was racially motivated this is wide open for abuse. i.e. personal grudges. Since most employers have adopted policies similar to this legislation, youhave to be extremely careful what you say to ethnic minorities.

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by *DEVIL*
Why should Kilroy be allowed to abuse his position and spread racist views?
He has not abused his position, he is allowed an opinion as much as the next person. Just because he is famous, his rights as a person are not affected.

No, his rights as a person are not affected. Nor have they been. He is still free to state his opinion. But he has lost his job at the BBC (and rightly so) because the BBC must be seen to be impartial. I suggest you read this
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3393095.stm

Originally posted by *DEVIL*
Or don't you think his views are racist? If you don't, why don't you?
I dont think his view are racist, all he has done is to critisise aspects of another culture, which many people find abhorrent.

Have you read the article? Specifically the paragraph I quoted a couple of pages back? It is quite obvious from that, that he is criticising all Arabs, not a regime or culture, by linking them with terrorism and then linking that to asylum and social security benefits.

Originally posted by *DEVIL*
Don't you think he is intelligent enough to be able to write an article in a more careful way?
He has spoken for the silent majority, who are afraid to express their views, because people like you do not like them. He has made a stand for freedom of speech..

What silent majority? Evidence? I certainly don't know anyone who shares his views.
But that wasn't my point. My point was, assuming that Kilroy didn't mean to be racist in his article (as he and you claim), then surely he is intelligent enough to word it in a way that couldn't be interpreted as being racist.

Originally posted by *DEVIL*
[And how is the government telling you how to talk to "these people"?
The government, through local government, publishes guidelines for inclusivity. City councils have committees, which monitor their literature, for language which could offend minorities. Also, under current legislation a racial abuse incident is deemed to be any incident where the victim feels that the incident was racially motivated this is wide open for abuse. i.e. personal grudges. Since most employers have adopted policies similar to this legislation, youhave to be extremely careful what you say to ethnic minorities.

You are not answering my question. I'll ask again.

How is the government telling you how to talk to "these people"?

I take it that you don't think we should be respectful to other people/cultures.

[Man Of Kent]

Originally posted by *DEVIL*
they lose their human rights 9yes the right to freedom of SPEECH!)

He has not lost the right to say what he likes.

He has lost the right to front a BBC show - remember the BBC have to cater for all and therefore needs to be inclusive. Kilroy's comment undermined his own position.

There is nothing to stop him writing another article this week saying exactly the same thing.

[Man Of Kent]

Originally posted by *DEVIL*
He has not abused his position, he is allowed an opinion as much as the next person. Just because he is famous, his rights as a person are not affected.

His position as a BBC presenter has given him a national profile. That profile meant he got the job at the Express. He used his column to spout offensive views.

See above for "rights" as a person.

I dont think his view are racist, all he has done is to critisise aspects of another culture, which many people find abhorrent.

No, he stereotyped an entire race based on the actions of a minority. He did this in a dergatory way suggesting that Western culture was therefore better than Arab culture.

No better than suggesting that Europeans gas Jews, really.


He has spoken for the silent majority, who are afraid to express their views, because people like you do not like them. He has made a stand for freedom of speech.

Crap. This was no stand for free speech. This was a rant against a minority.

BTW Why is the majority always referred to as silent? and if they are how the hell do you know what their views are?

The government, through local government, publishes guidelines for inclusivity. City councils have committees, which monitor their literature, for language which could offend minorities. Also, under current legislation a racial abuse incident is deemed to be any incident where the victim feels that the incident was racially motivated this is wide open for abuse. i.e. personal grudges. Since most employers have adopted policies similar to this legislation, youhave to be extremely careful what you say to ethnic minorities.

Those same laws apply to racism against whites you know.

[*DEVIL*]

Originally posted by Man Of Kent

BTW Why is the majority always referred to as silent? and if they are how the hell do you know what their views are?



Because 92% of people support him, according to Sky News.

Also 2 letters of complaint sent to the paper over a hundred in support sent to him. (if that many people believed it then surely we would have known long beore now, but they are afraid!)

[Aladdin]

I suspect that statistic is a load of rubbish.

32% more like...

[*DEVIL*]

Originally posted by Blagsta

You are not answering my question. I'll ask again.

How is the government telling you how to talk to "these people"?

I take it that you don't think we should be respectful to other people/cultures.

OK, lets see...

Yes i do think we should respect other cultures/people, as i always have. Its not a case of that.

It is the silly things that have been changed you will be talking to someone they think you are sexist/racist/discriminatory because of your language.

Fireman -------> Firefighter
Policman-------> Police Officer
Chairman --------> Chairperson

Dont use these terms you are liable to action. For someone writing an assignment not using the relevant terms could get you into trouble.

I am talking about PC in general not race, does everything have to be about that? PC can affect any aspect of life.

In brownies we now have to ask each Brownie whether when they receive their uniform they would like a Muslim headscarf.

Muslims were kicking up about the headscarf in some parts because it draws attention to themselves, that they didnt ask for it (no who did?.....White liberals!)

As a student going into the teaching profession PC effects me greatly i have to follow ALL the terms and rules ALL of the time.

Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall......?(remember that one?) been banned because its to sad.

Ring-o-ring o'roses - not PC enough.

Why do we have to change our songs because it may scare the children, i never had nightmares over it.

Im picking up a baby bumble bee, changed it to loving my baby bumble bee (well that makes sense after it just stung me)

oh and Baa Baa Blue Sheep....

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by *DEVIL*
Because 92% of people support him, according to Sky News.

Also 2 letters of complaint sent to the paper over a hundred in support sent to him. (if that many people believed it then surely we would have known long beore now, but they are afraid!)

And thats a very scientific method of measuring opinion innit?

Don't ever get a job in market research! :rolleyes:

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by *DEVIL*
OK, lets see...

Yes i do think we should respect other cultures/people, as i always have. Its not a case of that.

It is the silly things that have been changed you will be talking to someone they think you are sexist/racist/discriminatory because of your language.

Fireman -------> Firefighter
Policman-------> Police Officer
Chairman --------> Chairperson


Our language is very male orientated, is it that much trouble to say firefighter? But even if you don't say it, its no big deal. No one's gonna take you to court for it. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by *DEVIL*
Dont use these terms you are liable to action. For someone writing an assignment not using the relevant terms could get you into trouble.

I am talking about PC in general not race, does everything have to be about that? PC can affect any aspect of life.

In brownies we now have to ask each Brownie whether when they receive their uniform they would like a Muslim headscarf.

Muslims were kicking up about the headscarf in some parts because it draws attention to themselves, that they didnt ask for it (no who did?.....White liberals!)

You're in the Brownies?! How old are you? And you're a trainee teacher as well? Hmmmmmm. :confused:

[edited to add]
Muslim's joining the Brownies? Which is basically a Christian organisation? Hmmmmm. :confused:

Originally posted by *DEVIL*
As a student going into the teaching profession PC effects me greatly i have to follow ALL the terms and rules ALL of the time.

Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall......?(remember that one?) been banned because its to sad.

Ring-o-ring o'roses - not PC enough.

Why do we have to change our songs because it may scare the children, i never had nightmares over it.

Im picking up a baby bumble bee, changed it to loving my baby bumble bee (well that makes sense after it just stung me)

oh and Baa Baa Blue Sheep....

This is just rubbish. I don't believe you.
Plenty of friends of mine have done PGCE's and this simply doesn't happen.

Hmmmmmm.

[Major Tom]

the normal method of testing public opinion is a poll, however you dismiss these because they dont support your argument. to be honest, your sources are no more reliable than mine. no source is completely impartial. you select a source which backs up your argument.

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by Major Tom
the normal method of testing public opinion is a poll, however you dismiss these because they dont support your argument. to be honest, your sources are no more reliable than mine. no source is completely impartial. you select a source which backs up your argument.

It depends on how the poll was conducted. Because I don't have Sky News, I have no idea. Was it a phone in? An internet poll? Or one conducted by a reputable market research company?
There are huge differences between these. Don't ever get a job in stats Tom. :rolleyes:

[*DEVIL*]

Originally posted by Blagsta



This is just rubbish. I don't believe you.
Plenty of friends of mine have done PGCE's and this simply doesn't happen.

Hmmmmmm.

Concrete examples please not hearsay.

[Blagsta]

I think you're lying.

[*DEVIL*]

Originally posted by Blagsta



You're in the Brownies?! How old are you? And you're a trainee teacher as well? Hmmmmmm. :confused:

[edited to add]
Muslim's joining the Brownies? Which is basically a Christian organisation? Hmmmmm. :confused:




Hmmmmmm.


I am a Brownie Leader, I help the children. (like I do in school) Yes it is a Christian organisation (or at least how Lady Baden Powell intended it to be).

Yes and like your always prteaching, we are equal, so why can't Muslims join like a Christian child it would be racist to turn then away.

[Blagsta]

I very much doubt that Muslim's would join the Brownies. Could happen I s'pose, but very doubtful.

And Baa Baa Blue Sheep? LOL! You're making it up.

[katchika]

I used to be in brownies and there were Indian girls who were members, who I presume were Hindus or Sikhs. Brownies is a Christian based organisation but you don't have to be Christian to attend, you do not pray or perform religious duties. Although my unit used to attend church once a month, this was not compulsary.

[Blagsta]

Why do you presume that the Indian girls were Sikh or Hindu? They could have been Christian.
I'm not saying that Muslim's wouldn't join the Brownies, I just think it would be very rare.

[Aladdin]

If that 'poll' turns to be a Sky News "press the red button" thing or a Express readers' phone-in (as I strongly suspect it is) then it is completely and utterly worthless with regard to representing the views of the British people.

[katchika]

Because the majority of Indian people ARE Sikh or Hindu, that's why, sorry, is it not PC for me to say that?

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by PussyKatty
Because the majority of Indian people ARE Sikh or Hindu, that's why, sorry, is it not PC for me to say that?

:rolleyes: No, nothing to do with PC. Just asking why you make that presumption without actually knowing. There are quite a few Indians who are Christian y'know, and it would make more sense for them to join a Christian organisation. See? Its easy to make assumptions that cloud the issue.

[Blagsta]

Another interesting article on PC myths
http://media.guardian.co.uk/mediaguardian/story/0,7558,925908,00.html

especially

As reported in Media Guardian last week, hot cross buns have become a political hot potato following a story in the Sunday Telegraph on March 16 claiming that several councils had banned hot cross buns from school canteens on the grounds that they might be offensive to non-Christians.

All the councils quoted in the Telegraph's article have denied that they have imposed any kind of ban on hot cross buns. In a joint statement to the Sunday Telegraph they say: "We all encourage a multi-faith approach to education and life in general and celebrate the cultural diversity of our communities."

This story is very similar to one which appeared in the London Evening Standard and Daily Mail soon after the death of the Queen Mother, which claimed that some schools with large numbers of non-Christian pupils had banned the screening of her funeral for similar reasons. Again, the local education authorities accused denied that such a ban existed.

It is a variation on the theme of "political correctness gone mad" which surfaced in the right-wing media in the 1980s with urban myths about certain Labour-controlled councils banning black bin bags, the nursery rhyme Baa Baa Black Sheep and the use of the term "black coffee" on the grounds that such things were racist. None of these reported bans ever took place.

(italics mine)

*DEVIL* - take note.

[BeckyBoo]

Originally posted by Blagsta
I very much doubt that Muslim's would join the Brownies. Could happen I s'pose, but very doubtful.



Now Blagsta seems to know who will join what groups hhhmmm when you dont even seem to know what happens with Brownies, that does suprise me.

Just so you are aware Brownies is a meeting for children 8 +, they normally start in Rainbows then move up to Brownies. Once a week the children meet, they play games, they sing, they make things and they get together to just have a good time. They have to do tasks to receive badges like being kind, being helpful, doing housework etc etc.
Within our Brownies in this area they go away for weekends at a youth hostel type thing. They have day trips out in the summer and once a month do a church parade which is not compulsary.

Now seeing as I have briefly described what Brownies is all about you may understand why any child from any background and any race may love being a Brownie.

If you dont know about a particular group im sure by doing a search on www.google.co.uk and just type the word Brownies it would have found some information for you.

[Blagsta]

Please try and read my posts properly Becky.
I know full well what the Brownies are.
I'm just doubting that its very common for Muslims to join, I'm not saying that it doesn't happen.

[katchika]

If I have children they will be Muslim and I would send them to Brownies, so long as they enjoyed it. It promotes good values, they have fun and learn new skills, the religious part of it is not a big thing.

[Blagsta]

Fairynuff. I was just saying that I don't believe that it would happen that often thats all. I could be wrong. But coupled with *DEVIL*'s obvious fabrication about PC at teacher training college, her story just doesn't ring true.

[BeckyBoo]

Originally posted by Blagsta
Please try and read my posts properly Becky.


Sorry I did, I just got the impression you knew nothing about what does happen at Brownies. I find it hard to understand how you know who would and who wouldnt join a Brownie meeting.

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by BeckyBoo
Sorry I did, I just got the impression you knew nothing about what does happen at Brownies. I find it hard to understand how you know who would and who wouldnt join a Brownie meeting.

I know that Brownies are a Christian organisation. I know that Muslim communities have their own community groups that their children go to. I don't see there being much of a cross over thats all. Not saying it never happens, just saying that I don't think it happens very much.

[Man Of Kent]

Originally posted by Major Tom
the normal method of testing public opinion is a poll,

But these only usually ask one person to state an opinion on a single occasion.

The problem with Sky votes is that I could vote 100 times myself, if I wanted to.

Oh, and of the "silent" majority were silent then they would be voting even on Sky... surely?

[Kermit]

Originally posted by Blagsta
*DEVIL*'s obvious fabrication

Before you go making assumptions Blagsta you really should check your facts. Im not saying it IS true, just that you dont know it ISNT. Seeing as you demand it of everyone else, anyway.

Purely out of interest, how many councils do you think would admit to a policy that was unpopular? They dont exactly own up to corruption, and the annual budget of Bradford Council makes extraordinary reading. "PC gone mad" DOES happen- Shipley College banned the sale of butter in its canteen in order "to prevent upsetting vegans", for instance.

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by Kermit
Before you go making assumptions Blagsta you really should check your facts. Im not saying it IS true, just that you dont know it ISNT. Seeing as you demand it of everyone else, anyway.

No one I know who is a teacher or who has done a PGCE has claimed anything remotely similar to what *DEVIL* claims.

Originally posted by Kermit
Purely out of interest, how many councils do you think would admit to a policy that was unpopular? They dont exactly own up to corruption, and the annual budget of Bradford Council makes extraordinary reading. "PC gone mad" DOES happen- Shipley College banned the sale of butter in its canteen in order "to prevent upsetting vegans", for instance.

That butter thing is daft, I'll agree with you there.
I guess what I'm saying is that there may be isolated occasions where idiots do things like that, but it is no way a concerted attack on freedom of speech in the way that *DEVIL* claims.

[*DEVIL*]

This is not where i read it but i will find the link, it may be the guardian/ or TES website.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/education/600470.stm

[*DEVIL*]

(Politically Correct versions)



Jack & Jill
Two young persons of opposite gender, proceeded toward the apex of a natural geologic protuberance. The purpose of their expedition was to procure a sample of fluid hydride of oxygen in a large vessel, the exact size of which was omniously omitted from the record. As the male person precipitously descended, he consequently sustained severe damage to the upper cranial portion of his anatomy. A similar fate befell the female, who immediately after the male person, performed a self-rotational translation oriented in the same direction having been traversed by the young man.

Jack Spratt
Complications arose during a non-congressional investigation of dietary influence. One person of the male gender was unable to assimilate adipose tissue, and another person, of the female gender, was unable to consume tissue consisting chiefly of muscle fibre. A reciprocal arrangement between the two, who also happened to be a party of a domesticated alliance, allowed for the total consumption of the viands under consideration, which was unltimately achieved, thus, leaving the original container of the viands devoid of any contents.

Little Jack Horner
A young person of the male persuasion was situated near the intersection of two supporting elements at right angles to each other. Said person was involved in ingesting a saccharine composition prepared in conjunction with the ritual celebration of an annual religious event. Insertion into the saccharine composition of the opposable digit of his forelimb was followed by removal of a drop of genus Prunus. Immediately thereafter, this person made a declarative statement regarding the high quality of his character as a young male.

Mary Had A Little Lamb
A young person of the female gender was the possessor of a small immature ruminant of the species genus Ovis, whose outermost covering reflected all wavelengths of visible light with a luminosity equal to that of a mass of naturally occurring microscopically crystalline water. Regardless of the translational path chosen by the aforesaid young person, there was a 100% probability that the aforementioned ruminant would select the same pathway.

Old Mother Hubbard
A geriatric person of female gender proceeded to a storage compartment for the purpose of procuring a fragment of osseous tissue from an unidentified deceased specimen to transfer to an indigent carnivorous domesticated mammal, Canis familiaris, of the family Canidae. Upon arrival at her destination, she found the storage compartment in denuded condition, with the consequence that the indigent carnivore was deprived of the intended donation.

Three Blind Mice
A triumvirate of murine rodents totally devoid of ophthalmic acuity was observed in a state of rapid locomotion in pursuit of an agriculturalist's uxorial adjunct. The aforesaid adjunct then performed a triple caudectomy utilizing an acutely honed bladed instrument generally used for subdivision of edible tissue.

[*DEVIL*]

http://www.sundaymail.co.uk/news/content_objectid=13530410_method=full_siteid=86024 _headline=-NURSERY-CRIMES-name_page.html

[*DEVIL*]

http://www.lankester.force9.co.uk/loony.htm

In fact i have also been told that when working with children, you cannt tell them off, or say you have been naughty, but your behaviour is naughty.

Focus on good behaviour not bad.

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by *DEVIL*
This is not where i read it but i will find the link, it may be the guardian/ or TES website.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/education/600470.stm

Haven't seen that before. Interesting.

Possibly I have been a little harsh towards you.

But I do find it odd though that a professor of education at the Institute of Education claims that this ban never happened anywhere and that mates of mine who are teachers or have done PGCE's have ever mentioned it. That story is also over 3 years old.

Maybe I owe you an apology.

But I still think that your view that PC is a concerted attack on free speech is misguided.

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by *DEVIL*
http://www.lankester.force9.co.uk/loony.htm

Not a credible source as it is someones personal homepage.

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by *DEVIL*
http://www.sundaymail.co.uk/news/content_objectid=13530410_method=full_siteid=86024 _headline=-NURSERY-CRIMES-name_page.html

duff link

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by *DEVIL*
(Politically Correct versions)



Jack & Jill
Two young persons of opposite gender, proceeded toward the apex of a natural geologic protuberance. The purpose of their expedition was to procure a sample of fluid hydride of oxygen in a large vessel, the exact size of which was omniously omitted from the record. As the male person precipitously descended, he consequently sustained severe damage to the upper cranial portion of his anatomy. A similar fate befell the female, who immediately after the male person, performed a self-rotational translation oriented in the same direction having been traversed by the young man.

Jack Spratt
Complications arose during a non-congressional investigation of dietary influence. One person of the male gender was unable to assimilate adipose tissue, and another person, of the female gender, was unable to consume tissue consisting chiefly of muscle fibre. A reciprocal arrangement between the two, who also happened to be a party of a domesticated alliance, allowed for the total consumption of the viands under consideration, which was unltimately achieved, thus, leaving the original container of the viands devoid of any contents.

Little Jack Horner
A young person of the male persuasion was situated near the intersection of two supporting elements at right angles to each other. Said person was involved in ingesting a saccharine composition prepared in conjunction with the ritual celebration of an annual religious event. Insertion into the saccharine composition of the opposable digit of his forelimb was followed by removal of a drop of genus Prunus. Immediately thereafter, this person made a declarative statement regarding the high quality of his character as a young male.

Mary Had A Little Lamb
A young person of the female gender was the possessor of a small immature ruminant of the species genus Ovis, whose outermost covering reflected all wavelengths of visible light with a luminosity equal to that of a mass of naturally occurring microscopically crystalline water. Regardless of the translational path chosen by the aforesaid young person, there was a 100% probability that the aforementioned ruminant would select the same pathway.

Old Mother Hubbard
A geriatric person of female gender proceeded to a storage compartment for the purpose of procuring a fragment of osseous tissue from an unidentified deceased specimen to transfer to an indigent carnivorous domesticated mammal, Canis familiaris, of the family Canidae. Upon arrival at her destination, she found the storage compartment in denuded condition, with the consequence that the indigent carnivore was deprived of the intended donation.

Three Blind Mice
A triumvirate of murine rodents totally devoid of ophthalmic acuity was observed in a state of rapid locomotion in pursuit of an agriculturalist's uxorial adjunct. The aforesaid adjunct then performed a triple caudectomy utilizing an acutely honed bladed instrument generally used for subdivision of edible tissue.

Very funny. :rolleyes:

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by *DEVIL*
In fact i have also been told that when working with children, you cannt tell them off, or say you have been naughty, but your behaviour is naughty.

Focus on good behaviour not bad.

I think you have quite possibly misunderstood or only partially understood this. AFAIK (from what my friends with children tell me), you get much better results from positive reinforcement than from negative reinforcement (tallys with what I learnt when I studied a bit of psychology). Punishment often doesn't work, especially with young children, it is much better to focus and reward good behaviour than dwell on bad behaviour as this often results in more bad behaviour especially in kids that are seeking attention.

Dunno what that has to with "PC" though, more to do with child development and psychology. :confused:

[*DEVIL*]

Originally posted by Blagsta
Very funny. :rolleyes:

Well it kinda made me giggle, brighten the debate a little. No offence meant, i did think it was a little OTT. ;)

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by *DEVIL*
What I do object to though....Like 97% of British Citizen, is being told how to act around people, so that we do not offend the 'minority', thus making us SCARED to talk to these people!

I still don't understand this though.

Scared to talk to "these people"? Just talk to people as human beings and with respect. Thats enough, regardless of the existence or non-existence of a PC conspiracy.

[edit to add]
And that is really my point. People who complain all the time about "political correctness gone mad" seem to actually have a problem relating to anyone who is different to them in the first place. The basis of PC is to respect other people. If you do this then you'll have no problems. End of story.

[Blagsta]

These articles kind of sum up my feelings
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,233926,00.html
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,6903,619443,00.html

It is actually a term used by the right to attack any progressive reforms towards equality. So you can see why I'm a tad suspicious of anyone who rants "Its political correctness gone mad!"

[BlackArab]

Originally posted by *DEVIL*
Well it kinda made me giggle, brighten the debate a little. No offence meant, i did think it was a little OTT. ;)


I'm glad you see it as a joke actually, thats what the whole issue is, there are no thought police, no liberal quiche-eating ethnics waiting to pounce just a bunch of silly people making an issue out of nothing. Hopefully you undertsand why I get such a belly laugh out of it.

[*DEVIL*]

Originally posted by Blagsta
I still don't understand this though.

Scared to talk to "these people"? Just talk to people as human beings and with respect. Thats enough, regardless of the existence or non-existence of a PC conspiracy.

[edit to add]
And that is really my point. People who complain all the time about "political correctness gone mad" seem to actually have a problem relating to anyone who is different to them in the first place. The basis of PC is to respect other people. If you do this then you'll have no problems. End of story.

Yes i do see your point in some cases it can be an 'excuse' it can be a 'way out' for some. We are not just talking about race issues though we are talking about EVERYTHING.

you shouldn't shout at a child it constitutes child abuse, my mum works in the kitchen of a school, the dinner ladies/teachers/TA's cannot ask a child to eat a little more or all of their meal, that constitutes child abuse. However like my mum said if she was paying £1.80 a day for her child to eat a healthy meal she would make sure the dinner ladies told her child to eat it!

:confused:

Surely allowing a child (we are talking from age 4-7) to not eat their lunch, is going to make them ill, they cannot understand the effects, so this is more abusive allowing a child to go hungry through the day? (they cant snack like we would!)

[*DEVIL*]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/talking_point/1988952.stm

Example of 'OTT' Political Correctness

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by *DEVIL*
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/talking_point/1988952.stm

Example of 'OTT' Political Correctness

Thats an odd one because etymology of the phrase is unknown. But most scholars think it has nothing to do with the slave trade.
An example of an over-zealous police chief I think.
The point is that these are rare isolated incidents that are blown out of all proportion by the right wing to discredit any moves towards equality, not a conspiracy by the left to curtail freedom of speech as you and MT seem to think.

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by *DEVIL*
Yes i do see your point in some cases it can be an 'excuse' it can be a 'way out' for some. We are not just talking about race issues though we are talking about EVERYTHING.

you shouldn't shout at a child it constitutes child abuse, my mum works in the kitchen of a school, the dinner ladies/teachers/TA's cannot ask a child to eat a little more or all of their meal, that constitutes child abuse. However like my mum said if she was paying £1.80 a day for her child to eat a healthy meal she would make sure the dinner ladies told her child to eat it!

:confused:

Surely allowing a child (we are talking from age 4-7) to not eat their lunch, is going to make them ill, they cannot understand the effects, so this is more abusive allowing a child to go hungry through the day? (they cant snack like we would!)

:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

I'm really confused now. So the fact that your mum cannot shout at small children who aren't her responsibility and can't force them to eat food is "political correctness gone mad" is it?

You've lost me know. :confused: :confused: :confused:

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by Major Tom
the essence of pc is promoting minorities while at the same time denigrating the majority culture.

I'd still like you to justify this though.

[*DEVIL*]

Originally posted by Blagsta
:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

I'm really confused now. So the fact that your mum cannot shout at small children who aren't her responsibility and can't force them to eat food is "political correctness gone mad" is it?

You've lost me know. :confused: :confused: :confused:

No not my mum the dinner ldies, and meal time assistants. Basically these days children tend to leave food they are unafmiliar with, or do not want to et, if the child has no allergy to that food then what is the problem?

If i had a child i spent £1.80 a day on lunch for them, i would expect my child to eat it all or most of it.

I am not talking about shouting, but the dinner lady trying to persuade the child to eat their meal.

What would you rather, your child starve, or have their food, some children need little persuasion with eating, other go day in day out not eating lunch becuse of this.

Whats more cruel?

[Blagsta]

Children will not starve, they'll eat if they're hungry.
And no, I don't think dinner ladies should have the right to force children to eat something they don't want to.

And what has this to with "political correctness" anyway? :confused:

[BeckyBoo]

Originally posted by Blagsta
Children will not starve, they'll eat if they're hungry.


It doesent work that way with children tbh. They have breakfast before school, a biscuit at playtime and at lunch time the thing that is in their mind is to go back outside for playtime, so they tend to leave their lunch.
As a mum Id prefer the dinner nannies to try and talk the kids into eating the meal rather than just let them leave it.

[Blagsta]

In my experience (although admittedly I don't have kids of my own), children will eat if they're hungry enough.

[BeckyBoo]

Originally posted by Blagsta
In my experience (although admittedly I don't have kids of my own), children will eat if they're hungry enough.

to a degree yes, but if they dont eat lunch at lunchtime then they get nothing till they get home. I dont get home till approx 3:30 so if she didnt eat lunch then the poor bairn will have had nothing since breakfast.

[Blagsta]

I still don't think that dinner ladies should be allowed to force children to eat what they don't want to.

[Dear Wendy]

Originally posted by Blagsta
In my experience (although admittedly I don't have kids of my own), children will eat if they're hungry enough.

Even parents can't always get their kids to eat properly. Making "dinner ladies" get the kids to eat, is just pushing the responsobility of the parent away.
I understand that some kids have problems and might need special help, and that's okay. But to simlply assume that these people have to make sure everyone is eating as they should is absurd.

Will repeat your question and ask what this thing has to do with anything at all...?

[BeckyBoo]

Originally posted by Blagsta
I still don't think that dinner ladies should be allowed to force children to eat what they don't want to.

oh no, not force them but gentle persuasion works wonders with kids ;)

[Blagsta]

I still don't think its the dinner ladies place to do that.

[Kermit]

Originally posted by Blagsta
I still don't think its the dinner ladies place to do that.

No, quite.

But when the sternest reprimand nursery nurses can give to the childeren in their care is "we dont do that here"- even when the child in question has been biting and spitting at a teacher, or worse, another child- I think the pendulum has swung too far from the cane.

I blame the parents.

[BlackArab]

I wouldn't say this has anything to do with 'pc' more a sign that schools and authorities are terrified of litigation and the parents.

[Kermit]

Originally posted by BlackArab
I wouldn't say this has anything to do with 'pc'

Nah, its just an interesting tangent.

more a sign that schools and authorities are terrified of litigation and the parents.

I think this is slightly more the point about "PC", to be honest- people come out with stupid things like banning butter in order to protect vegans in order to prevent being sued. Get rid of the sueing culture, and the nonsensical "PC" decisions will disappear whence they came.

[Blagsta]

^
some truth in that I suspect.

[Kermit]

Originally posted by Blagsta
^
some truth in that I suspect.

OK, I'm scared.

Everyone is agreeing with me :nervous:

[BeckyBoo]

Originally posted by Kermit
OK, I'm scared.

Everyone is agreeing with me :nervous:

its ok i bribed em all :p

[Aladdin]

You're losing your touch Kermit.




;)

[Captain Slog]

Originally posted by Blagsta
These articles kind of sum up my feelings
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,233926,00.html
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,6903,619443,00.html

It is actually a term used by the right to attack any progressive reforms towards equality. So you can see why I'm a tad suspicious of anyone who rants "Its political correctness gone mad!"
Now, I'm all for equality. Its when the PC/liberal lobby goes the other way and gives preferential treatment to minorities that I start saying "PC gone mad". For instance from today's Littlejohn column:
You may remember I enquired, only partly in jest, why police officers should be required to declare their sexual orientation to ensure that 10 per cent of all recruits are gay, lesbian or bisexual.

Why not foot fetishists, rubber enthusiasts and gerbil fanciers, too?

I also congratulated Inspector Paul Cahill, of the GPA, on his MBE.

But I wondered what it was which marked him out for a gong among hundreds of other dedicated police inspectors, other than his predilection for same-sex sex.

It’s a legitimate question.

Of course, we can't go critisizing this kind of discrimination against majorities. That would result in us being branded racist/homophobic/male chauvinist bigots. Littlejohn goes on to say:

But according to Inspector Cahill, that puts me right up there with the Soho nail-bomber. He accuses me of not only stirring up hatred against gay police officers but the gay community as a whole.

The GPA has also reported me to the Commission for Racial Equality — though what’s it’s got to do with race is beyond me.

[Blagsta]

Minorities do not get preferential treatment.

And Littlejohn is a bigotted little shit who deserves to die a slow and painful death.

[ladymuck]

Minorities do not get preferential treatment.

You're wrong there, read this as an example of preferential treatment

Civil Service Fast Stream (http://www.diversity.faststream.gov.uk/index.asp?txtNavID=120)

[Blagsta]

I don't see that as preferential treatment. Public services should reflect the diverse makeup of our society, but all too often don't due to racism. This is about redressing the balance. Thats all

Get over it.

[ladymuck]

don't see that as preferential treatment.

i would

Get over it.

Don't patronise me. it's no skin of my nose as I'm not affected by it. Might affect you though

[Blagsta]

I don't give a fuck what you think. You sound like a snobby stuck up cow, given what you said on this thread