The other side of the immigration debate part 2

[BlackArab]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/3330297.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/3369577.stm

A rare sighting in the press, a story that actually gives you some of the other facts about immigration and its benefits.

Unfortunately due to political rhetoric and the pandering to the right wing press, this is something you rarely see, a politician recognizing that immigration can actually benefit the indigenous population.

[Char_Baby]

id just like to point out the recent story of a little boy of 9 who was killed down here on new years day in a hit and run accident. the driver was a illegal immigrant with no tax disc and no insurance, he'd also registered the car under the name of 'mr dodo' he was from albania and had been told to leave 2 years ago after his asylum application was turned down. he left the boy to die in the road heartlessly then went and burned out the car.

this shows a total lack of consideration for a country he is supposed to be taking refuge in. i hope this leads to stricter controls

[FireFly85]

id just like to point out the recent story of a little boy of 9 who was killed down here on new years day in a hit and run accident. the driver was a illegal immigrant with no tax disc and no insurance, he'd also registered the car under the name of 'mr dodo' he was from albania and had been told to leave 2 years ago after his asylum application was turned down. he left the boy to die in the road heartlessly then went and burned out the car.

Well I'd like to point out to you that there was recently a hit and run accident in my area in which a 15 year old boy was killed. The driver was white english man who had lived in England all his life and been part of this society, yet despite all this he left the boy to die on the road heartlessly. What is your point?

[Char_Baby]

Originally posted by almost_innocent
Well I'd like to point out to you that there was recently a hit and run accident in my area in which a 15 year old boy was killed. The driver was white english man who had lived in England all his life and been part of this society, yet despite all this he left the boy to die on the road heartlessly. What is your point?

none really, jus they bring other adverse effects, just shows his lack of consideration, no tax to help pay for the roads and had been told to leave years ago

i know british people do it too

[BlackArab]

Originally posted by Char_Baby
none really, jus they bring other adverse effects, just shows his lack of consideration, no tax to help pay for the roads and had been told to leave years ago

i know british people do it too

This is kind of comment that stops me from even bothering with the 'racial debate' thread. I really don't think that bringing up random examples of bad 'immigrants' really adds anything to the debate. I've been involved in four vehicle accidents in three years, none of which was my fault but it hadn't occured to me to think that this might be an 'adverse effect' of English people. :rolleyes:

[dantheman]

Originally posted by BlackArab
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/3330297.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/3369577.stm

A rare sighting in the press, a story that actually gives you some of the other facts about immigration and its benefits.

Unfortunately due to political rhetoric and the pandering to the right wing press, this is something you rarely see, a politician recognizing that immigration can actually benefit the indigenous population.

The situation in Scotland is far different from England.
If the Scots need people then we should close the asylum centre in Croydon and move it north of the border.
Thus freeing up space in an overcrowded area and populating a country with enough space to swing a cat.

[BlackArab]

Originally posted by dantheman
The situation in Scotland is far different from England.
If the Scots need people then we should close the asylum centre in Croydon and move it north of the border.
Thus freeing up space in an overcrowded area and populating a country with enough space to swing a cat.

I totally agree its different, the reason I put the thread up is too show a different side to the debate. Some countries and regions are desperate for immigrants but you don't often read about that.

The needs of Scotland are not necessarily the same as other areas and it would be a lot better in my opinion to look at things regionally rather than as national policy.

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by Char_Baby
id just like to point out the recent story of a little boy of 9 who was killed down here on new years day in a hit and run accident. the driver was a illegal immigrant with no tax disc and no insurance, he'd also registered the car under the name of 'mr dodo' he was from albania and had been told to leave 2 years ago after his asylum application was turned down. he left the boy to die in the road heartlessly then went and burned out the car.

this shows a total lack of consideration for a country he is supposed to be taking refuge in. i hope this leads to stricter controls

But this is nonsense. That could have been anyone that ran that kid down. Or don't you think that British people never do that sort of thing? :confused:

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by Char_Baby
none really, jus they bring other adverse effects, just shows his lack of consideration, no tax to help pay for the roads and had been told to leave years ago

:confused:

Thats not because he was an immigrant, its because he is a human being.

Originally posted by Char_Baby
i know british people do it too

So whats your point then? :confused: :confused: :confused:

[Char_Baby]

Originally posted by Blagsta
:confused:

Thats not because he was an immigrant, its because he is a human being.



So whats your point then? :confused: :confused: :confused:

it was just fresh in my mind

[morrocan roll]

the north wales economy would collapse without immigrants ...and most of the nhs with it.

[Major Tom]

the point is, that person should not have been in the country. dont tell me he was a nobel peace prize winner or a rocket scientist.

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by Major Tom
the point is, that person should not have been in the country. dont tell me he was a nobel peace prize winner or a rocket scientist.

So? The 2 things are unconnected.

[Char_Baby]

Originally posted by Major Tom
the point is, that person should not have been in the country. dont tell me he was a nobel peace prize winner or a rocket scientist.

if he hadnt been in the country the boy would still be alive, the thing that really sickens me is that he drove off, probably knwoing that if he got caught for it he would get sent back for good

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by Char_Baby
the thing that really sickens me is that he drove off, probably knwoing that if he got caught for it he would get sent back for good

This could well be true. But the thing that makes me uncomfortable about the way this story is presented is that it feeds into the current anti-immigration climate in a nasty way IMO.

[Aladdin]

What hope can ever be of fucking having a rational debate about immigration when all some people have to add to it is "I've heard 1 immigrant did something bad"... :rolleyes:

Next time we talk about the achievements of Great Britain perhaps I should mention that I know of a white British man who murdered someone. I also know of one who raped somebody. And another who takes drugs and mugs people.

In fact, why are white British people still allowed to roam the streets? They should be all in jail where they belong, the filthy criminals.

Jesus fucking christ! :mad: :rolleyes:

[Major Tom]

yes it is pointless highlighting what one person has done, but the issue has become confused. to me it's about economics, not race. i dont worry about hordes of foreigners raping my virginal daughter ha ha, i just think its a waste of taxpayers money. i am entitled to think this since i pay taxes. there was no referendum held on recent large scale immigration, the government have been very devious. i think they realise they have made a huge vote losing cock up, so anyone who disagrees is branded a racist. the dublin treaty which outlined protocols for asylum was drafted in1951, it's no longer relevant legislation.

[*DEVIL*]

Originally posted by Aladdin


In fact, why are white British people still allowed to roam the streets? They should be all in jail where they belong, the filthy criminals.

define rascist?

Jesus fucking christ! :mad: :rolleyes:

By the way you are being deeply offensive to Christians with that selfish comment, i am sure you wouldn't 'allah Fucking mohamed or Ganesh fucking buddah, you might offend someone!

[Major Tom]

alladin was taking the piss i think!

[*DEVIL*]

Originally posted by Major Tom
alladin was taking the piss i think!

Look you :p

I dont care, if it was a comment against the 'minority' it would be wrong!

[BlackArab]

Originally posted by Major Tom
yes it is pointless highlighting what one person has done, but the issue has become confused. to me it's about economics, not race. i dont worry about hordes of foreigners raping my virginal daughter ha ha, i just think its a waste of taxpayers money. i am entitled to think this since i pay taxes. there was no referendum held on recent large scale immigration, the government have been very devious. i think they realise they have made a huge vote losing cock up, so anyone who disagrees is branded a racist. the dublin treaty which outlined protocols for asylum was drafted in1951, it's no longer relevant legislation.


Regarding your first point, I am genuinely glad we agree on something. Also I understand what you mean about tax-payers money but I see any help given to newly arrived immigrants as an investment as the majority of them are here to work and pay taxes. Add what the average person will pay in taxes in their lifetime and I think they more than payback any help given, which believe me isn't much.

If you read the links you will have noticed that in Scotland one of the calls was for the asylum-seekers be allowed to work, the myth that they are all here for benefits is just that a myth, I don't know about you but I was once on the dole and that is not a way to live believe me.

I personally wouldn't automatically brand everyone a racist for disagreeing for the governments policy on asylum-seekers as for a start, there's parts of it I don't like myself and I think the whole thing needs sorting out if only to stop ridiculous situations like the one in Scotland where they are calling for more immigration while the government is busy locking up immigrants. It might interest you to know there is as much debate on the matter amongst British ethnic minorities as there is amongst whites.

[BlackArab]

Originally posted by *DEVIL*
Look you :p

I dont care, if it was a comment against the 'minority' it would be wrong!

Is Christianity a 'minority' religion in this country? well you learn something new everyday :rolleyes:

[solo]

Falling birth-rates can be addressed by a Govt. making better provision for its citizens in the way of creches, child-care as many do not have as many children as they would like to have.

Controlled immigratiion has to be considered but what of when the mosques are poking out of the Glens, is that what the Scots want?

[giantno1]

Originally posted by almost_innocent
Well I'd like to point out to you that there was recently a hit and run accident in my area in which a 15 year old boy was killed. The driver was white english man who had lived in England all his life and been part of this society, yet despite all this he left the boy to die on the road heartlessly. What is your point?

That the illegal immigrant shouldn't have been here in the 1st place. If the government had done its job properly then the accident would not have happened. The white Englishmen, as a national of the UK, had every right to be in the country

[giantno1]

Article from British Muslim Community website:

Since 2002 the Metropolitan Police Service has amended its dress code to allow female Muslim officers to wear the hijab. The Head of the Met's Human Resources, Bernard Hogan-Howe, has said: "It is only right that the Met ensures that its uniform is appropriate for all its staff."

http://www.salaam.co.uk/themeofthemonth/september03/images/policescarf.jpg

Sweet mother f*cking carrot. What the fuck is this?

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by solo
but what of when the mosques are poking out of the Glens, is that what the Scots want?

I'm sure most of 'em won't mind. Not everyone is a nasty bigot like yourself.

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by giantno1
Article from British Muslim Community website:

Since 2002 the Metropolitan Police Service has amended its dress code to allow female Muslim officers to wear the hijab. The Head of the Met's Human Resources, Bernard Hogan-Howe, has said: "It is only right that the Met ensures that its uniform is appropriate for all its staff."

http://www.salaam.co.uk/themeofthemonth/september03/images/policescarf.jpg

Sweet mother f*cking carrot. What the fuck is this?

Whats your problem with that? :confused: :confused: :confused:

[giantno1]

They're not immigrants who are accepting the ways of the country which they inhabit. They're colonists who are trying to change them.

[Blagsta]

Colonists? LMFAO! Man you are suffering from paranoia!

Colonists! Ha ha ha ha! :D :D

[giantno1]

"Man you are suffering from paranoia"

Yeh and your'e suffering from cataracts, what will it take for you to open your eyes?

[Blagsta]

PMSL!


Really, are you smoking too much weed or something?

[giantno1]

No, but soon everyone will be in your 'socialist paradise'

[Blagsta]

^
Does this make sense to anyone? :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

[Aladdin]

Originally posted by *DEVIL*
define rascist? For the second time in 24 hours I am having to ask to read the comments that triggered my response. I had hoped it would be clear by now that I do not believe white people are criminals- I was simply using the same nonsense arguments someone else had used to smear asylum seekers, to prove that by the same rulebook white people are just as bad and dangerous.

Clear now?



By the way you are being deeply offensive to Christians with that selfish comment, i am sure you wouldn't 'allah Fucking mohamed or Ganesh fucking buddah, you might offend someone! I'd have no problem uttering those expressions either. Those who are offended by 'Jesus fucking christ' are advised never to watch movies or read novels.

Incidentally I am offended by god-botherers of all denominations (but specially christians in this country) having their own programmes on public television and on radio and basically invading my living room and telling me if I don't join their sect and worship their god I a am a despicable sinner who will suffer unspeakable agony for all eternity. Rather more offensive than 'Jesus fucking christ', don't you agree?

[giantno1]

Originally posted by Aladdin
Incidentally I am offended by god-botherers of all denominations (but specially christians in this country) having their own programmes on public television and on radio and basically invading my living room and telling me if I don't join their sect and worship their god I a am a despicable sinner who will suffer unspeakable agony for all eternity.

I think that you've been watching too many American preacher programmes

[Aladdin]

Originally posted by giantno1
They're not immigrants who are accepting the ways of the country which they inhabit. They're colonists who are trying to change them.

LOL. In fact it is the opposite my prejudiced one: it is YOU who is not accepting the ways of this country. For your information, anyone is free to worship any religion they see fit. By your opposing to this fundamental British right, it is you who is breaking the law of this country and want to destroy its tolerant ways and transform it into a totalitarian hell-hole.

I suggest deportation. It'd be best for everyone. Imagine if you were dropped on a desert island alongside like-minded people, where you can all make the rules of your new country to your liking and live in perfect white Christian harmony for ever after. You could even call the place New Britannia.

How does that sound?
:D ;)

[giantno1]

Originally posted by Aladdin
LOL. For your information, anyone is free to worship any religion they see fit.
:D ;)

Yes but not to change the pre-existing uniform of the capital of the UK's police force. The police were created to serve and protect society, not to reflect a country's culture or religion. Police uniforms are and have been for a hundred years. What the hell is a criminal going to think when they see a female in a hijab trying to arrest them?

[Aladdin]

Says who? There have been uniform provisions for Sikh police officers for decades. Have you forgotten about them, or you only happen to have prejudice towards certain religions?

[BlackArab]

Originally posted by solo
Falling birth-rates can be addressed by a Govt. making better provision for its citizens in the way of creches, child-care as many do not have as many children as they would like to have.

Controlled immigratiion has to be considered but what of when the mosques are poking out of the Glens, is that what the Scots want?


True thats one way but you also have to account for the fact that modern women in the west want to have careers as well as babies and a lot of people see having anything more than two or three children as being irresponsible or would rather have a better lifestyle.

IMO the problem of growing elderly population and the recent private pensions fiasco is a ticking timebomb that the Scots are sensibly trying to address.

As for the mosques, who says there going to be all Muslims? and even if some of them are, whats the problem?

[solo]

In the light of current world politics, islam may prove a a ticking timebomb .We should reject muslims in preference to non-muslims

[Char_Baby]

Originally posted by Aladdin
For the second time in 24 hours I am having to ask to read the comments that triggered my response. I had hoped it would be clear by now that I do not believe white people are criminals- I was simply using the same nonsense arguments someone else had used to smear asylum seekers, to prove that by the same rulebook white people are just as bad and dangerous.

Clear now?




unless you cannot read, i said 'I KNOW BRITISH PEOPLE COMMIT CRIMES I WAS JUST HIGHLIGHTING THIS ONE STORY'

but you dont see british people forging papers or commiting as much benefit fraud, not all asylum seekers are good, sorry if i shattered your perfect image :rolleyes:

and for the record, i am not racist in anyway shape or form

and if it was your child im sure you wouldnt be so 'let them all in, there fab :thumb: '

[BlackArab]

Originally posted by Char_Baby
unless you cannot read, i said 'I KNOW BRITISH PEOPLE COMMIT CRIMES I WAS JUST HIGHLIGHTING THIS ONE STORY'

but you dont see british people forging papers or commiting as much benefit fraud, not all asylum seekers are good, sorry if i shattered your perfect image :rolleyes:

and for the record, i am not racist in anyway shape or form

and if it was your child im sure you wouldnt be so 'let them all in, there fab :thumb: '


Are you having a laugh? British people not forging papers or committing benefit fraud as much, yeh right. I've heard it all now, next you'll be accusing them of causing all the football hooliganism in this country :rolleyes:

[BlackArab]

Originally posted by solo
In the light of current world politics, islam may prove a a ticking timebomb .We should reject muslims in preference to non-muslims

The majority of Muslims reject religious extremism, the same way most Irish Catholics rejected the IRA and most British whites reject the National Front/BNP.

[Aladdin]

I think it's Christian fundamentalists and American Republicans who are the biggest danger this planet has ever faced, in view of recent world events. It is them we should try to keep out of Britain.

[byny]

Yes Char-baby you are! and you have demonstrated it quite clearly. Unfortunately like many people you are not self aware enough to realise it, possibly through being indoctrinated by the press.

The story is about a child being killed by a person who drove a car recklesly that he shouldn't have been in and then ran away. Race or country of origin has nothing to do with it.

And YES! plenty of British people commit fraud everyday, and not just within Britain!

[Aladdin]

Originally posted by Char_Baby
unless you cannot read, i said 'I KNOW BRITISH PEOPLE COMMIT CRIMES I WAS JUST HIGHLIGHTING THIS ONE STORY'

but you dont see british people forging papers or commiting as much benefit fraud, not all asylum seekers are good, sorry if i shattered your perfect image :rolleyes:

and for the record, i am not racist in anyway shape or form

and if it was your child im sure you wouldnt be so 'let them all in, there fab :thumb: ' I never said that all asylum seekers are decent people. But your comment was totally irrelevant at best, or plain racist at worst. You tell me you're not racist, fine, I believe you. But your comment can easily be misinterpreted.

Put it this way: what would your thoughts be if you saw the following headline in a newspaper: "Red-haired person kills child in hit and run incident".

Or "Manchester United supporter accused of killing a child".

Or "Tory supporter sentenced for abusing young boys".

Well, "asylum seeker hits and runs child" has exactly the same connotations as the statements above.

[dantheman]

Originally posted by giantno1
Yes but not to change the pre-existing uniform of the capital of the UK's police force. The police were created to serve and protect society, not to reflect a country's culture or religion. Police uniforms are and have been for a hundred years. What the hell is a criminal going to think when they see a female in a hijab trying to arrest them?

I'd imagine they'd think that not every police officer in this country is of the same religion. I think it can only be good for police relations with ethnic minorities and non Christians.

So long as they're identifiable as police officers then I don't care if they’re wearing religious costume.

[solo]

Race or country of origin has nothing to do with it.

not so, a legal immigrant with a track record of achevement entering is one thing, an asylum seeker may be a criminal or a feckless moron.

Try getting into Oz even as a legal immigrant , no nonsense there

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by giantno1
Yes but not to change the pre-existing uniform of the capital of the UK's police force. The police were created to serve and protect society, not to reflect a country's culture or religion. Police uniforms are and have been for a hundred years. What the hell is a criminal going to think when they see a female in a hijab trying to arrest them?

Showing a total misunderstanding of so many things on so many different levels that its laughable.

How old are you?

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by solo
In the light of current world politics, islam may prove a a ticking timebomb .We should reject muslims in preference to non-muslims

So all Muslims are the same yes? The same as all Catholics are in the IRA, yes?

LOL! :D

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by Char_Baby
but you dont see british people forging papers or commiting as much benefit fraud,

LOL! Really?

*raises eyebrow*

Originally posted by Char_Baby
not all asylum seekers are good, sorry if i shattered your perfect image :rolleyes:

Show where anyone has said that and have my next paycheque (funny how no one ever take me up on this :rolleyes: )

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by solo
not so, a legal immigrant with a track record of achevement entering is one thing, an asylum seeker may be a criminal or a feckless moron.

:confused: :confused:

Sorry, I don't follow. So white British people aren't? Are you the exception that proves the rule then? :rolleyes:

[solo]

Sorry, I don't follow. So white British people aren't? Are you the exception that proves the rule then?

simple enough I thought, yes , we have no shortage of feckless morons in the UK,if someone migrates here they should add value, if we're clever we'll pick those who will through immigration control, work visas etc.

an asylum seeker waltzes in, no checks on suitability just 'asylum = open sesame'. away they go + do their thing until the State catches up with them and decides their fate

[Aladdin]

Sounds good to me. :)

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by solo
simple enough I thought, yes , we have no shortage of feckless morons in the UK,if someone migrates here they should add value, if we're clever we'll pick those who will through immigration control, work visas etc.

How do you measure value? By whose criteria?

Originally posted by solo
an asylum seeker waltzes in, no checks on suitability just 'asylum = open sesame'. away they go + do their thing until the State catches up with them and decides their fate

Lets kill all stupid children as well.

[solo]

How do you measure value? By whose criteria?

not my job, ask HM Govt.

Are you saying No Borders, hey Man, now you're talking, lets weave all flags into a big tent, we can dance all night, all fluffy, sorted peeps together:)

[Blagsta]

If its your view, you must have some idea how we measure people's value.


Anyway I gotta go back to work.

[Karl Marx]

Originally posted by solo
Are you saying No Borders, hey Man, now you're talking, lets weave all flags into a big tent, we can dance all night, all fluffy, sorted peeps together:)

True socialist paradise. Blagsta is with me! Long live the revolution Blagsta!

[BlackArab]

Karl, do you know any good jokes and how's your brothers?

[Karl Marx]

I know of many 'jokes'. But I do not wish to discuss them as they are now a commercialisation of the imperialist west. Join the fight with me to smash the fascists and bring about social bliss. We shall persevere!

[Blagsta]

Originally posted by Karl Marx
True socialist paradise. Blagsta is with me! Long live the revolution Blagsta!

Hello giantno1 :rolleyes:

[Major Tom]

there is no point complaining about asylum seekers hanging around town centres etc. they are not allowed to work so there is not a lot else they can do. the real point is that the government has lost control of our borders, blunkett has even admitted he doesnt have a clue how many there are in the country. asylum seekers would not be running innocent children over if the government had not made such a huge cock up. its the government we should blame, not the people.

[Blagsta]

^
to a certain I agree with you. But this "asylum seekers would not be running innocent children over if the government had not made such a huge cock up" is nonsense. How are the 2 things connected? :confused:

[Major Tom]

well, if immigration policy was tighter, there would be less scare stories like that one. the government has benefited hugely from the asylum issue becoming racial, this diverts attention from their staggering ineptitude and sheer contempt for public poinion.

[Blagsta]

Sorry, still don't get it. :confused:

[BlackArab]

Was there ever control? I read an article written by David Mellor according to him Thatcher was never interested in putting together an effective Asylum-seeker/immigration policy.

The majority of Bristols asylum seekers came her during the early 90s when Major was in power, you have to wonder has anything actually changed under the Blair regime.