Turkey v England - Away Fans?

[godscop]

Should England fans be allocated tickets in Istanbul?

I think they should and its about time the FA stood up for the people they're supposed to represent. The hooligan problem in England is no way near as bad as it was in the 70s and 80s. You can't say the same thing about Turkey, all of Eastern Europe and South America where they regulary take guns to games. In my opinion if the Turkish police can't guarantee security the match should be moved to a neutral venue.

If the Turks cause trouble I take it UEFA will ban them from Euro 2004? No, didn't think so. They're are picking on the English and the FA are taking it lying down.

[Aladdin]

It might not be as bad as in the 70s but hooliganism is certainly on the up again. And given the history against Turkey it would be an open invitation to carnage.

Although the great majority of England fans are good, non-violent people it cannot be denied that there is an active hooligan element, and high-tension games like this would attract them in their hundreds.

It is sad that sometimes fans have to be told not to follow their team abroad, but to do otherwise in this case would cost lives.

[godscop]

Well the game should not be allowed to take place in Turkey then, if they can't guarantee the safety of English fans surely the same must be said for the Turkish fans. What about the players?

I don't see this happening to other countrys, even though they have much worse problems than we do. Did you see the scenes from Peru last week?

It seems the English are being punished for very little while everyone else can do whatever the fuck they want.

In 1993 Eric Cantona was battoned by a Turkish policeman after our match with Galatasary, predictably nothing was done. Imagine if someone from the GMP battoned Zidane or Del Piero at Old Trafford, they'd probably ban us for life.

[Aladdin]

Surely you must know that if other teams were to bring supporters in the numbers England does, and the country in question was considered 'fair game' (Germany, Turkey) you could expect all hell to break loose in here as well, unless you get the bloody army to patrol the streets.

The fact remains that whether it's their fault or not, England fans attract trouble like a magnet attracts metal shavings. Sometimes this is unfair as often they are provoked first- but it cannot be denied that English fans are involved in trouble more often than any other fans, in Europe at least. And that is the bottom line. Not that many of them might be looking for trouble in the first place, but not that many walk away from it either. And although thankfully people usually don't get killed, I think everyone has had just about enough of Burberry-clad English louts giving nazi salutes and creating havoc live on TV.

If you add the recent events between the two sets of fans it's no surprising at all they're being asked to stay away. The Turks were never going to bring big numbers to England- and we all saw the attempted ambush at coaches carrying Turkish fans and the cut-throat gestures. Had the Turks as a big as travelling fan base as England you can be sure there would have been a travel ban for them as well.

[godscop]

Can you not see the injustice? Its scandalous, and don't think I'm one of them ****s who follow ingerlund.

No the Turks never brought big numbers to England because the majority that went to the game live here.

Every time and English team goes to Turkey the buses are smashed with bricks, as you've said yourself, fans get killed ffs. Still let off though.

Don't be so fucking naive.

[Man Of Kent]

Time for me to gets splinters in my arse.

1. No other nations fans have been treated as harshly as the English. Back in the 80s our teams were banned from European competition because of the violence associated with them.

Yet, bad as that was, no fan was ever killed.

So why aren't UEFA as hard on other countries?

2. English fans face a hostile reaction from many police forces and often it is the way they are treated that leads to confrontation and violence. Certainly the police in Milan and Madrid have much to answer for when you look at their recent treatment of United fans.

When you consider the Turkish police, perhaps it is best that England fans don't place themselves in such a position?

3. Having said that, we still have an element within our fan base who are hell bent on causing trouble. I really don't see why the FA should encourage our fans to attend this match, when we all know that violence is likely to occur. Indeed they are doing the only sensible thing and suggesting that English fans stay at home.

Originally posted by godscop
No the Turks never brought big numbers to England because the majority that went to the game live here.

And of course there was the cost element...

Don't be so fucking naive.

Relax, what you are getting is a view of English fans from someone abroad. Your aggressive reaction to this really substantiates his claims, wouldn't you say?

[Aladdin]

You seem to think England fans are being unfairly targeted and banned from attending certain games. I'm saying that in this particular game they're being asked not to travel because there is very serious risk of trouble and even deaths.

They are trying to save people's lives, and while they're at it avoid very ugly incidents that could result in the expulsion of Turkey and/or England from the championships.

Whoever started it and what set of fans is to blame would be of little consequence to the families of the deceased.

If this were to be done every time England played abroad against a direct rival then I'd agree with you that it's unfair on the English fans and that something has to be done. But then again, if England didn't attract a couple hundred people intent on causing trouble at every 'tasty' game there would be no need for this.

[godscop]

Originally posted by Man Of Kent
Time for me to gets splinters in my arse.

1. No other nations fans have been treated as harshly as the English. Back in the 80s our teams were banned from European competition because of the violence associated with them.

Yet, bad as that was, no fan was ever killed.

Coincidently it is 16 years to the day since 25 Liverpool fans were extradited to Belgium for killing 39 Italians.

2. English fans face a hostile reaction from many police forces and often it is the way they are treated that leads to confrontation and violence. Certainly the police in Milan and Madrid have much to answer for when you look at their recent treatment of United fans.

When you consider the Turkish police, perhaps it is best that England fans don't place themselves in such a position?

The point is it would not be tolerated if it was the other way round. Why is nothing being done?

Relax, what you are getting is a view of English fans from someone abroad. Your aggressive reaction to this really substantiates his claims, wouldn't you say?

It says Aladdin is located in South London, I assume the EU flag is because of political alliance.

Everytime United play in Italy they are pelted with bottles of piss, flags are up in the grounds saying things like "Fuck off English pig bastards" not to mention all the racist chants. Why does nobody do anyting about these people? Why not threaten to ban other nations unless they get their act together? Why not do something?

In Madrid last season they had 2 turnstiles open for thousands of fans, when they couldn't get in the police baton charged. What happens? They charge both clubs £14000, wonder what will happen the next time.

Still none of you have given a reason as to why other nations don't face bans, given their behaviour.

[Man Of Kent]

Originally posted by godscop
Coincidently it is 16 years to the day since 25 Liverpool fans were extradited to Belgium for killing 39 Italians.

Doh! How did I forget that "small" incident :(

Sadly what doesn't get as much coverage is why the Liverpool fans reacted in the way that they did, what had happened to them at the previous year's ECF - held in Rome, against Roma where they were subjected to attacks from Italian fans and police alike...

I'm not condoning what they did in Brussels, but they didn't act blindly.

Oh, and who were they fighting with? Themselves? Or the Italian fans who had been throwing seats at them...


]It says Aladdin is located in South London, I assume the EU flag is because of political alliance.

He may be living there at the moment, but he's Spanish.

Everytime United play in Italy they are pelted with bottles of piss, flags are up in the grounds saying things like "Fuck off English pig bastards" not to mention all the racist chants. Why does nobody do anyting about these people? Why not threaten to ban other nations unless they get their act together? Why not do something?

In Madrid last season they had 2 turnstiles open for thousands of fans, when they couldn't get in the police baton charged. What happens? They charge both clubs £14000, wonder what will happen the next time.


Have a feeling I covered these incidents when I said "Certainly the police in Milan and Madrid have much to answer for when you look at their recent treatment of United fans"...

[BlackArab]

I think godscop has made some very valid points but to be honest with this particular game, I think you would have to be mad or looking for trouble to go.

Not many decent English fans will want to attend and its a fact that if tickets are made available, every hoolie with the cash will be there. Some will be there anyway as they were at Macedonia and if they get the chance will do their best to avenge the two Leeds fans that died.

If the normal fans are there, the police can protect them but how many people want to be confined to a hotel, bussed under guard into the stadium and straight out back to the airport after a game. Seeing what happened to the Turkish fans coaches in Sunderland you would have to be desperate to pay good money to travel like that.

[squat_tom]

English football fans get treated badly when they travel abroad, because of the terrible when in which they behave. They've even managed to get a rise out of the Swiss in the past, something that is nigh on impossible!

The core of the English troublemakers are those who have been outcast by the local team's supporters, due to their appalling behaviour. Because the national side does not have the same supporter's hierarchy, you end up with a bunch of drunken outcasts trying to out-do one another.

[Lickalotapuss]

Originally posted by godscop

Still none of you have given a reason as to why other nations don't face bans, given their behaviour.
Just on this point, the fans haven't been banned. If they want to go they can go. The FA has just said it wouldn't be wise to go as you could end up coming back in a box with flowers spelling your name on top.
People are still seeking revenge for the Leeds fans deaths and trouble will happen and people will end up hospitalised or dead if theses fans go. I'm not saying it will be English fans dead, it could be Turkeys but it WILL happen.