Do you trust?

[Shogun]

Do you trust your government? with all lies and corrupt officals do you trust them? they try and feed the public with their web of lies and bullshit on different issues, the war for example, drugs another example, exaggeration there, hospitals, schools, crime rates, death rates.

[morrocan roll]

Originally posted by Shogun
Do you trust your government? silly question ...

[dantheman]

Being an MP is a career, it's not like they're not doing it because they care about their country's welfare, therefore, they will lie to the public to make it look as if they're doing a good job.
So no.

[The Matadore]

The government is made up of Politicians , we all know politicians lie for a living.

Another question is , do you still trust the BBC to be completly impartial and not act like a seperate political party in itself?

[Clandestine]

The BBC is acting as a watchdog Mat, not a political party. lol. Get real!

[Aladdin]

I'm sorry, I know it's all too easy to fall into the cliché that "politicians are all the same". But sometimes it seems they are.

I have no doubt many politicians enter office with high principles and expectations- not many are crooked from the start. But I do believe the old saying that power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Whether Tory or Labour, once they reach office many of them seem to disconnect from the real world and embark in a world of protectionism, cronies, lies and deception. And some of them actually believe they've done nothing wrong, or that they're entitled to lie and deceive us "for our own good"!

The longer a government has been in power the bigger the chance they will lie to protect their interests or simply to do what they want. Back in 97 I trusted the government and was ecstatic about 18 years of Tory sleaze and corruption being finally over. Now I wouldn't trust this government to give me the time of day.

[Shogun]

I know its a bit of a silly question to some mroll, i dont trust the government at all anymore but i want to see if there are any out there who trust their government, not just in the Uk.

[kevlar85]

I did think in 1997 that this government would be different but now I wouldn't trust Blair (and I mention Blair specifically) as far as I could throw him. I would trust Brown and people like Short and Cook.

As for the BBC I still trust them implicitly, it would take a major scandal for me not to and Dr Kelly doesn't in my opinion damage the BBC anywhere remotely like the current furore is suggesting.

As an aside, I watched Fox News today, I was bored. It was like watching a car crash, I wanted to turn over but I couldn't it was so bad. It was like I imagine listening to the radio in Mussolini's Italy must have been like, when I put it on they said "In these patriotic times of ours it is appropriate that our national symbol of America is flying higher than ever before" in a Coming Up link for a story about an American eagle. Also I saw the live coverage on Channel 4 News about Jessica Lynch's press conference which also looked very fascistic to me. However, back on to Fox, they make The Sun look impartial but they do present the weather very nicely. :)

[Man Of Kent]

I never, ever, trust politicians. Anything they get involved in usually ends up being fucked up beyond belief.

That and the fact that they lie (or "Bend" Truth) to suit themselves.

[BumbleBee]

Do I trust them?


TRUST:
to have belief or confidence in the honesty, goodness, skill or safety of a person, organization or thing

I trust some politicians including my own MP. I don't think they can all be tarred with the same brush. Politics is a strange business. I think political parties are like factions and rival gangs.

[pnjsurferpoet]

As for the BBC I still trust them implicitly

Blindly eating up more lies by the BBC in the future. As long as you hear what you want to hear. How sad liberals/leftist are. As bad as people too far on the right. And in the end, the BBC will never improve as it should.

[BumbleBee]

Will people stop going on about the bleeding BBC? They make and show TV shows for heavens sake!

Lets all just go watch Neighbours and have done with it!

As far as I am concerned they have no political leanings, and even if they do, I don't care, I just want to watch TV!

Can someone please tell me where the BBC are spreading lies? In their news bulletins? On their website?

[BumbleBee]

Originally posted by pnjsurferpoet
And in the end, the BBC will never improve as it should.
And can you stop pretending you have a clue! You don't even live here, and as far as I can tell you have never ever been here!

[pnjsurferpoet]

We learn in school that one of the checks and balances of power is for the people to hold elected officials accountable. So actually "trusting" a leader is unAmerican in my country.

(That goes out the window when it's wartime and flags start flying. Although I admit I love some of that Patriotic stuff. But Bush is finding out that the "we're at war" line fades pretty fast and the core value of holding leaders accountable always comes back.) Last I read, one of his advisors is taking the fall on the uranium and Iraq story.

[kevlar85]

Originally posted by pnjsurferpoet
Blindly eating up more lies by the BBC in the future. As long as you hear what you want to hear. How sad liberals/leftist are. As bad as people too far on the right. And in the end, the BBC will never improve as it should.

Pot. Kettle. Black. From a child whose whole country's media is nothing more than a mouthpiece for the White House. The reason I trust the BBC is because they are the most impartial news broadcaster in the world, they have earned my trust by their unbiased reporting for decades before you or I were even born. The BBC doesn't need to improve its journalism it's already the world's finest, it's just a shame you refuse to listen to them when they tell you the truth.

[Clandestine]

How easily you wish to forget that much like you say about Bush, you yourself were (and from your continued comments about the BBC above, still apparently are) convinced that questioning our leaders was anti-American.

I think you need to realise that the BBC has merely come under fire again as it has many times in the past for exposing the lies of our leaders so that gullible types like yourself who repeatedly argued how just and moral and right these men are might finally be shown how duped you were.

Sorry if you prefer Fox News lies over the truth, but if so then dont pretend to ever want to be truly "informed" on any issue whatsoever. The truth is often ugly and dirty, something US media believes its viewers dont want to see and therefore shouldnt.

Long live the impartiality and integrity of the BBC!

[The Matadore]

The BBC is NOT IMPARTIAL!

[ElysiumUnknown]

Nope.

Ever since I was little the word 'politician' has been synonymous with the word 'liar'. They are self-serving and dangerously ambitious people - I'm sure they've got everything they've wanted before in life - so power is the next step. All people are selfish and politicians are certainly no exception. I do believe there are politicians who do have a grain of compassion in them, but like Aladdin said, power corrupts.

As for this Labour government - obviously people had high expectations - but they have disappointed the majority of people. Tony Blair has just dwindled and dwindled in my estimation...I have no respect for him now whatsoever, nor do I have much for his disarrayed government.

How do they expect young people to become more involved in politics when we have a selfish, power-hungry twat for a prime minister?

Hmm...just realised I may have to go on a date with someone aspiring to be a labour mp....or maybe I just won't phone him back :yes:

[BumbleBee]

Originally posted by The Matadore
The BBC is NOT IMPARTIAL! I always enjoy reading your well reasoned arguments.

[The Matadore]

It constantly amazes me how people fail to realise that the BBC may be acting with an agenda of its own!

[ElysiumUnknown]

Originally posted by The Matadore
It constantly amazes me how people fail to realise that the BBC may be acting with an agenda of its own!

I think everyone realises all media have individual agendas and bias, it's just that some people believe the agendas aren't actually that important or influential.

[Clandestine]

Indeed, well put Elysium. Arguments coming from Mat about someone else not being Impartial are extremely humorous. Mat certainly doesnt present any overt appearances of partiality now does he? lol.

There are operational biases perhaps but the BBC does not push a political agenda on the nation, it does refrain at times in deference to the truth if that truth is not yet credibly confirmed but they have taken Tory governments to task as readily as Labour as byny has clearly shown. So as news agencies go they are the most clearly balanced and responsible to the public rather than to cronies and cohorts in power as your obviously beloved news sources are.

[kevlar85]

Originally posted by ElysiumUnknown
I think everyone realises all media have individual agendas and bias, it's just that some people believe the agendas aren't actually that important or influential.

The agenda setting in the media is wholly controlled by who controls the purse strings, hence the Murdoch media is under is control as he pays their wages - hence why Sky News didn't deem his failed takeover of Manchester United as newsworthy where all other news organisations did. ITN's shareholding is luckily so divided as to not have a noticeable agenda although they aren't as critical of business generally as they could be. Ultimately the BBC is so impartial, and I'm cringing myself knowing I'm going to repeat this oft-used cheesy line, "because of the unique way it is funded", the licence fee means the only people who hold power over the BBC are us the British people as licence fee payers.

[monocrat]

Originally posted by Shogun
Do you trust your government? with all lies and corrupt officals do you trust them? they try and feed the public with their web of lies and bullshit on different issues, the war for example, drugs another example, exaggeration there, hospitals, schools, crime rates, death rates.

Generally I think trust is earned and not given away.

[Fairytale_Girly]

Perhaps it is all too easy to tar a whole load of people with the same brush ... I don't doubt that there are some very corrupt lying politicians out there ... you only have to look at the number of spin doctors Tony Blair employs and the (recently released) Lord Archer for proof of that.

Although I would like to believe that there are (in all political parties) examples of those men and women for whom politics and being an MP is not merely a career but also a vocation.

Politicians are not so nearly well paid as sometimes people believe them to be, well at least your average back bencher isn't when you compare it with their potential earnings in the world of commerce.

There are also examples of untrustworthy people in all jobs; teachers having innapropriate relationships with their pupils, doctors not keeping to the hippocratic oath, business people who commit faud on large scale.

And can we trust what is fed to us by the media of politicians? How can we be sure that what the media presents us with is an accurate account of what is happening & not overblowing situations and distorting the facts to increase their own profits.

But, at the end of the day ... if you don't like the government, VOTE! (I can't because I'm not old enough yet - but if you can, you should) - there was only a 33% turn out percentage at the last general election!

[Shogun]

33%...thats bad, people just don't care anymore.

[Creeper]

Originally posted by Shogun
Do you trust your government? with all lies and corrupt officals do you trust them? they try and feed the public with their web of lies and bullshit on different issues, the war for example, drugs another example, exaggeration there, hospitals, schools, crime rates, death rates.

Well I can't say I trust the Pink Tory government we have. As for statistics on drugs and crime... say more crimes are recorded. Now are more crimes being commited, or are the police cracking down and arresting more people? I'll post more when I'm sober.

[Man Of Kent]

Originally posted by ElysiumUnknown
I think everyone realises all media have individual agendas and bias, it's just that some people believe the agendas aren't actually that important or influential.

:confused:

If a media organisation has an agenda it will portray it's stories in a certain light. News reporting has influence on public opinion, that cannot be denied, surely?

[Clandestine]

But to what end would the BBC choose to purvey spin rather than balanced expose?

They are not out to further their own political agenda as they have no real need of one and they certainly do not operate under the same "out for profit" motivations that put corporate media into collusion with the powers that be.

As the most respected news organisation in the world which derives both its mandate and its funding from the general public, you can hardly argue that they serve any constituency interests other than that of the public itself.

[Man Of Kent]

Originally posted by Clandestine
But to what end would the BBC choose to purvey spin rather than balanced expose?

I'm not going to get into a debate purely about the BBC again, because then we would get into detail about a single organisation.

My comment was about media in general. It's not just Murdoch who pushes an agenda.

Sadly all organisation disseminating information edit.

Just out of interest (damn I'm going to talk about the BBC again) - how many BBC journalists do you think are currently working on an expose of Andrew Gilligan, and how many are looking at how Geoff Hoon/MoD/Govt acted? Now this is just an example...

[Clandestine]

Well in the case of Gilligan I wouldnt see the cause for turning this into a journalistic investigation. For him its simply an in house matter of discipline or termination of contract.

Perhaps he got it wrong, perhaps not (Im inclined to believe that the govt has continued to cover up and lie in the face of informed reporting on Mr. Gilligan's part).

Neverthless, I heartily agree with you that it hasnt yet gone far enough and that Hoon and the rest ought as well to be put under the magnifying glass of full public scrutiny by BBC.

In the same way I feel that investigations in the US of the Bush admin arent focussing nearly enough on the major issues demanding scrutiny (i.e. 9/11 itself, The bank accounts of every member of the admin to reveal corporate kickbacks from those corporations granted lucrative public contracts in the aftermath of the dirty conquest of Afghanistan and Iraq, etc..).

There are many issues that may never get the scrutiny they deserve and that as you say is to eternal shame of all media agencies corporate or public.