death by fat ... [Archive] - TheSite.org boards

ElysiumUnknown

23-07-2003, 11:20 PM

Originally posted by pnjsurferpoet
I eat at Mickey D's 3 or 4 times a week

Why?

Do you have no taste buds?

It doesn't matter how much exercise you do - that's still unhealthy.

The issue of diet needs to be addressed, I think healthier food should be made less expensive, but the market is all about profit, so it won't happen. It's the patterns children acquire now - and it stays with them and is passed to the next generation.

Monocrat - maybe you should change that statement to unhealthy women are the most aesthetically unpleasing? Unless you like the anorexic look.

kevlar85

24-07-2003, 12:26 AM

Originally posted by ElysiumUnknown
Why?

Do you have no taste buds?

It doesn't matter how much exercise you do - that's still unhealthy.

The issue of diet needs to be addressed, I think healthier food should be made less expensive, but the market is all about profit, so it won't happen. It's the patterns children acquire now - and it stays with them and is passed to the next generation.

Monocrat - maybe you should change that statement to unhealthy women are the most aesthetically unpleasing? Unless you like the anorexic look.

3/4 times a week?! Elysium's right PNJ that's just not healthy, I think one Big Mac has your whole fat content for the day - it's some shocking statistic like that. You can't see the damage you're doing to your arteries, also no offence PNJ but American portion sizes are at least double what we get here. A guy from my dad's bank went to work at their Washington DC offices for a year or something and he put on masses of weight. I remember going to Planet Hollywood in London when I was about 10 and asked for a child's portion, I got a portion that would easily satisfy a British adult.

What I would do is take Common Agricultural Policy subsidies away from farmers and give it to supermarkets to make EU grown produce a lot cheaper I'd also ban adverts for those food products that are targetted at children - usually absolutely disgusting stuff full of sugars and salts and additives. Also encourage healthy eating at school - my nursery used to give us milk and chopped up fruit at break and as we went up the infant school we were taught the basics about food.

Mono - what a ridiculous statement, how fat is fat? How can you generalise thousands of women like that?

On anorexia, did anyone else see Diets From Hell on ITV on Tuesday? Urgh, I don't usually feel feint at TV programmes but when they showed these pictures of anorexic girls who were literally all skin and bones they'd got off pro-anorexia websites I felt physically sick.

Creeper

24-07-2003, 01:33 AM

Originally posted by Char_Baby
probably but if you belived everything in the papers we would live on only water for fear anything else would give us cancer

Diet coke causes cancer in lab rats didja know :p

Anyway, we all have cancer genes in our bodies and there're a lot of things that trigger them off.

As for 'fat' people, well in our society it's seen as undesirable. Go back 200 or go to another culture and being 'fat' is seen as very desirable, a sign of affluency or good health. It leaves you to be more unhealthy however, but the model females protrayed by the media are ridiculous, far from a real life healthy woman.

monocrat

24-07-2003, 11:49 AM

Originally posted by trinster
To you maybe. To some people they are much more beautiful than skin on a stick like a lot of women I meet in my job. I have one client, she's a size 20, and although she's on the large size she has the most beautiful smile and shining eyes. She dresses to please and pleases she does. I think that's a very one sided comment to make.

To many, not just me.

In contemporary society being fat is frowned upon.

Man Of Kent

24-07-2003, 11:52 AM

Originally posted by monocrat
In contemporary society being fat is frowned upon.

Society, schmeity :p

Renzo

24-07-2003, 11:58 AM

I cannot stand fast food! I never eat it! But the thing is theres like nothing around town that isnt fast food anymore:( Theres only one or 2 places where you can go and eat decent food. In my town these being an Italian Restuarant and a Chinese Restuarant. Though they are probably not healthy to an extent too.

pnjsurferpoet

24-07-2003, 12:45 PM

The picture of me is accurate. I eat at Mickey D's 3 or 4 times a week. But I board to school and surf in the summer. I also ride my bike everywhere and like to walk through the nature reserve we have on the cape where I live. So is the problem fat...or is it...not even laziness but being tired from work and so eating and then watching t.v.? Or in the case of my buds, being a gamer and sitting in front of the PC instead of going out and playing something?

One other thought. Dudes who want really big muscles eat at Mickey D's cause the fat/whatever is in their stuff helps them bulk up when they lift.

Aladdin

24-07-2003, 01:02 PM

It will catch up with you pnj... trust me on that.

The Matadore

24-07-2003, 01:38 PM

Eating at McDonalds 3 or 4 times a week is unhealthy , but by the sound of things you do a lot of exercise , and that is what matters.

Getting fat is a result mainly of not exercising , diet is still important , but exercise is the main thing.

ElysiumUnknown

24-07-2003, 01:39 PM

Originally posted by pnjsurferpoet
The picture of me is accurate. I eat at Mickey D's 3 or 4 times a week. But I board to school and surf in the summer. I also ride my bike everywhere and like to walk through the nature reserve we have on the cape where I live. So is the problem fat...or is it...not even laziness but being tired from work and so eating and then watching t.v.? Or in the case of my buds, being a gamer and sitting in front of the PC instead of going out and playing something?

One other thought. Dudes who want really big muscles eat at Mickey D's cause the fat/whatever is in their stuff helps them bulk up when they lift.

Yeah but they're missing out on vital nutrients such as vitamins. And no the "cheese" and milkshakes do not count as calcium.

You see this is the problem with junk food - people think if they just exercise it's ok. It is not. The sugar rots your teeth, your cholesterol is rising and god knows what all those hidden chemicals, e-numbers are doing.

Life is not about what you look like on the outside.

Monocrat - but what are you defining as fat? Larger people in general? Or the morbidly obese?

Kevlar - I didn't see that programme, but I've seen many before. Horrible and just so saddening. Once at work this anorexic girl came in - I have never seen anyone look so ill and thin before - and everyone was looking at her. No-one knew where to look really. Her eyes looked so empty. :( Our whole society's attitude towards food is severely messed-up.

pnjsurferpoet

24-07-2003, 01:40 PM

Do any of you guyz who worry about fat eat ice cream. You might find this interesting/depressing.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20030723/ts_nm/health_icecream_dc_2

You know what I did? I took a pint of Haggan Daz ice cream, in the UK I guess a container meant for four people, took the ice cream out of the container and ate it...letting it drip down my arm...on a bench next to a track where adults jog to stay fit/thin. One lady jogger laughed and said you are truly evil.:naughty:

ElysiumUnknown

24-07-2003, 01:44 PM

Originally posted by pnjsurferpoet
Do any of you guyz who worry about fat eat ice cream. You might find this interesting/depressing.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20030723/ts_nm/health_icecream_dc_2

You know what I did? I took a pint of Haggan Daz ice cream, in the UK I guess a container meant for four people, took the ice cream out of the container and ate it...letting it drip down my arm...on a bench next to a track where adults jog to stay fit/thin. One lady jogger laughed and said you are truly evil.:naughty:

Why?

If I was that jogger I would have taken that tub and whacked you round the head with it; just because you have nothing better to do with your time.

Balanced diet is the key.

SuzyCreamcheese

24-07-2003, 02:04 PM

PNJ just because you are slim, doesnt mean what you eat is healthy or that you are healthy. by eating that much mcdonalds you will be depriving yourself of vital nutrients.

pnjsurferpoet

24-07-2003, 02:09 PM

rb true. I agree.

EU Guess she had a better sense of humor.

Jogging seems silly to me. Running around in circles.:rolleyes:

Aladdin

24-07-2003, 02:50 PM

Don't worry, it's a well known fact that teenagers don't have a very advanced sense of taste (in more ways than one).

In 12 years time you will look back and truly despair about what you used to eat (and drink, and listen to, and watch in the multiplex) when you were younger.

ElysiumUnknown

24-07-2003, 02:55 PM

Originally posted by Aladdin
Don't worry, it's a well known fact that teenagers don't have a very advanced sense of taste (in more ways than one).

In 12 years time you will look back and truly despair about what you used to eat (and drink, and listen to, and watch in the multiplex) when you were younger.

Very true.

Maybe in 12 years time Mcdonalds will merely be a faded memory...

*wishful thinking*

pnjsurferpoet

24-07-2003, 02:56 PM

when you were younger.

Now t-h-a-t-'-s well put. Don't mind that at all. It's the "youngster" word that gets my goat...if I had one.:p

kevlar85

24-07-2003, 04:17 PM

Originally posted by pnjsurferpoet
Now t-h-a-t-'-s well put. Don't mind that at all. It's the "youngster" word that gets my goat...if I had one.:p

PNJ - you pig for eating that whole tub of Haagen Daaz! The nearest I ever came to that was buying a tub of Baskin Robbin's mint ice cream for some friends when we were doing a project on Shakespeare which they barely touched - it took me and my family a week to get through it.

At least you're not as bad as your jock friends - they bulk up today on protein but when they get a job and stop all that regular exercise it'll all turn to fat.

When you have a full time job and a family will you still be exercising as much as you do now? I doubt it and that is when all your past sins (such as the Haagen Daaz) will come and haunt you....

Elysium - I agree our society's attitude to food is so messed up, there was this woman who had such a bad case of anorexia she lost the use of her stomach and now has to eat these frozen pots of nutrients which looked like cow pats and she said tasted just as bad. The pictures were just horrible, there were girls whose rib cages looked like the bones of a turkey. At the other extreme you had a guy who was so fat the fire brigade had to cut him out of his window to get him to hospital for life saving treatment.

I don't eat at McDonald's any more since our local branch was shut down because the male staff.. how can I put this politely... brought a whole new meaning to the phrase taking pleasure in your work with the milkshake dispenser. PNJ - take note!

pnjsurferpoet

24-07-2003, 05:36 PM

will come and haunt you....

Booo:shocking:

Trying to scare an innocent child.:flirt:

Not with getting fat. But about having a wife and job. :yuck:

Renzo

24-07-2003, 06:27 PM

Originally posted by pnjsurferpoet
Booo:shocking:

Trying to scare an innocent child.:flirt:

Not with getting fat. But about having a wife and job. :yuck:

what a shock:rolleyes: Bah grow up

monocrat

27-07-2003, 07:50 PM

Originally posted by ElysiumUnknown

Monocrat - maybe you should change that statement to unhealthy women are the most aesthetically unpleasing? Unless you like the anorexic look.

I don't like the look of anorexic people but I also dislike the 'look' of fat mamas.

I can't understand how a person can find rolls of flab attractive.

BeckyBoo

27-07-2003, 09:05 PM

Originally posted by monocrat

I can't understand how a person can find rolls of flab attractive.

They probably go for whats inside which is what a lot more people should do.

monocrat

27-07-2003, 09:14 PM

Looks are just as important as personality. :)

BeckyBoo

27-07-2003, 09:20 PM

Originally posted by monocrat
Looks are just as important as personality. :)

Ok have you got the looks? cos your personality does not show here, apart from showing me you are quite ignorant and can sometimes speak totally out of hand.

Yeah lots of people would like to have the perfect look but at the end of the day whats the use in having looks if the person is a boring, ignorant so and so?

monocrat

27-07-2003, 09:24 PM

Originally posted by BeckyBoo
Ok have you got the looks? cos your personality does not show here, apart from showing me you are quite ignorant and can sometimes speak totally out of hand.

My personality does show. Does yours? To me you seem air-headed. Not what I call a good personality!!!!

Yeah lots of people would like to have the perfect look but at the end of the day whats the use in having looks if the person is a boring, ignorant so and so?

I'm not boring, neither am I ignorant. You simply don't understand where I am coming from.

BeckyBoo

27-07-2003, 09:29 PM

Originally posted by monocrat
[B]My personality does show.

Yeah it does :rolleyes:

I didnt say you were boring, In the latter piece of my post I said

Yeah lots of people would like to have the perfect look but at the end of the day whats the use in having looks if the person is a boring, ignorant so and so?
If you check my post it was a new paragraph, I never mentioned you in that part :rolleyes:

kevlar85

27-07-2003, 10:33 PM

Originally posted by monocrat
My personality does show. Does yours? To me you seem air-headed. Not what I call a good personality!!!!

Becky is hardly airheaded, her posts are always interesting (and longer than one line) and she always comes across as kind hearted, bubbly and loyal. Whereas if your posts are anything to go by you have all the personality of a cardboard cut out!

I'm not boring, neither am I ignorant. You simply don't understand where I am coming from.

I can't comment on boring as your posts aren't long enough to make any kind of deduction on that front but your posts are ignorant, you seem to lack any kind of knowledge of the real world outside your political theory textbooks. However, at least now we know you're patronising - if people can't understand where you're coming from it's up to you to make your posts clear to most people and not just look like you're chatting BS.

monocrat

28-07-2003, 02:01 AM

Again you cite 'political theory textbooks'. Why should you rebuke someone for wanting to improve themselves? :lol:

Man Of Kent

28-07-2003, 09:01 AM

If you think that textbooks are the way to self-improvement then you are setting yourself up for major disappointments, monocrat.

It's a starting point, but practical knowledge is of greater value. Unless you think that a junior doctor is as competant as a Consultant (for example)?

Worth also noting that your textbooks don't help you argue your points very well...

kevlar85

28-07-2003, 12:31 PM

Originally posted by monocrat
Again you cite 'political theory textbooks'. Why should you rebuke someone for wanting to improve themselves? :lol:

:lol: Love the way you lifted what squat_tom said to me last time I accused you of typing like a textbook. Is that what you do for your other posts too?

Besides which last time we discussed this you said you didn't read textbooks, although I hope this means you've taken my advice and started to actually gain some knowledge if so then good on you but if not, which I think is the case, we'll never see your posting quality improve - and I don't think we have seen your post quality improving showing you haven't improved your debating style.

PS. I noticed how you totally ignored all my other points in that posts, is that because you couldn't answer them? :p

monocrat

28-07-2003, 02:19 PM

Originally posted by Man Of Kent
If you think that textbooks are the way to self-improvement then you are setting yourself up for major disappointments, monocrat.

Who said anythin g about self improvement.

It's a starting point, but practical knowledge is of greater value. Unless you think that a junior doctor is as competant as a Consultant (for example)?

Practical knowledge of what? That I know more of politics than you?

Worth also noting that your textbooks don't help you argue your points very well... [/B]

This textbooks thing started because I probably argued points which went over the heads of some people here, or which were perceived as being too offensive. :)

Man Of Kent

28-07-2003, 04:12 PM

Originally posted by monocrat
Who said anythin g about self improvement.

Er... you?

"Why should you rebuke someone for wanting to improve themselves?"

Unless you think that I was talking you personally...?

Practical knowledge of what? That I know more of politics than you?

This textbooks thing started because I probably argued points which went over the heads of some people here, or which were perceived as being too offensive. :)

Huh?

This could be that you make no sense. Like here.

I was talking about how textbooks don't necessarily improve a person. What has this got to do with you personally?

ElysiumUnknown

28-07-2003, 04:23 PM

Originally posted by monocrat
Looks are just as important as personality. :)

I disagree. Personality is far more important than looks. I believe personality can make a person attractive or unattractive.

Appearing human always helps.

Jim V

28-07-2003, 04:25 PM

Okay people there seems to be a clear problem developing throughout a number of threads. Please be aware that you should not make insulting comments about other users.

People seem to be finding themselves dragged into slanging matches that look bad for everyone, everyone is just going through the same points (the same personal points)

Take a step back, remember the point of the thread and address the debate rather than speculate about other users.

kevlar85

28-07-2003, 04:30 PM

Originally posted by ElysiumUnknown
I disagree. Personality is far more important than looks. I believe personality can make a person attractive or unattractive.

Appearing human always helps.

Hear hear, personality is what makes you unique - anyone can have plastic surgery and have their boobs made bigger, their nose made straighter, their fat sucked away or whatever the thing that will remain with all people is their unique personality.

Would you buy a car without checking the engine just because it had a nice paint job? Don't forget that the best diamond rings come in a boring, plain old leather covered box.

ElysiumUnknown

28-07-2003, 04:34 PM

Originally posted by kevlar85
Hear hear, personality is what makes you unique - anyone can have plastic surgery and have their boobs made bigger, their nose made straighter, their fat sucked away or whatever the thing that will remain with all people is their unique personality.

Would you buy a car without checking the engine just because it had a nice paint job? Don't forget that the best diamond rings come in a boring, plain old leather covered box.

Exactly.

Unfortunately looks will always be important and people will remain to be judged by them. It annoys me so much how more attractive people seem to have everything laid on a silver plate for them despite the fact they could be a complete arse-hole.

kevlar85

28-07-2003, 04:52 PM

Originally posted by ElysiumUnknown
Exactly.

Unfortunately looks will always be important and people will remain to be judged by them. It annoys me so much how more attractive people seem to have everything laid on a silver plate for them despite the fact they could be a complete arse-hole.

Looks are like the packaging of the product - if the product's crap the best packaging in the world won't help them, yet the best product in the world can come in boring packaging and it will still sell. So it is with looks and personalities, look at the number of failed relationships in the showbiz sector with their "beautiful people" and why supermodels can never get dates.

In fact the better looking someone is the more likely it is they'll be an arsehole, because whereas plainer people develop their personalities to make themselves attractive, beautiful people don't and are used to getting everything they want because of their looks - hence they usually have huge egos.

If you have good looks, they fade with age - if you have a good personality it's with you for life.

pnjsurferpoet

28-07-2003, 04:57 PM

It was on t.v. that better-looking people get promoted more at work. Heavy-set people were judged to be lazy and undisciplined...before they were even hired!:rolleyes:

monocrat

29-07-2003, 12:23 AM

Originally posted by ElysiumUnknown
I disagree. Personality is far more important than looks. I believe personality can make a person attractive or unattractive.

Looks are just as important as personality. To state that looks don't matter is just a politically correct thing to say.

kevlar85

29-07-2003, 03:17 PM

Originally posted by monocrat
Looks are just as important as personality. To state that looks don't matter is just a politically correct thing to say.

No-one said looks don't matter all that was said was that they are not as important as personality. If you meet someone and like their looks but dislike their personality you won't be likely to hang around however if you meet someone who you don't especially find attractive but like their personality then you'll stay because they can hold a good conversation with you. No-one would pretend that looks aren't a factor in whether you like someone but looks only get you to go over to that person, their personality determines whether you'll stay there.

BeckyBoo

29-07-2003, 04:56 PM

Originally posted by monocrat
Looks are just as important as personality.

In your opinion, dont class everyone the same.

Id rather have decent banter, have a few laughs with an ugly barsteward (like me hubby) who has a personality than be married to a gorgeous, muscly boring hunk :D

monocrat

29-07-2003, 05:05 PM

Originally posted by BeckyBoo
In your opinion, dont class everyone the same.

I never do. :)

Id rather have decent banter, have a few laughs with an ugly barsteward (like me hubby) who has a personality than be married to a gorgeous, muscly boring hunk :D

Good for you... :)

morrocan roll

29-07-2003, 07:16 PM

Originally posted by BeckyBoo

Id rather ... than be married to a gorgeous, muscly boring hunk :D there go my chances with BB!

pnjsurferpoet

29-07-2003, 08:38 PM

Back to the original idea of the thread...does anyone here think a tax should be put on high fat foods with the monies going towards paying for future heart etc. operations? Or preventative programs like free nutritional seminars/classes on the local level or free/cheaper health club membership?

kevlar85

29-07-2003, 09:25 PM

Originally posted by pnjsurferpoet
Back to the original idea of the thread...does anyone here think a tax should be put on high fat foods with the monies going towards paying for future heart etc. operations? Or preventative programs like free nutritional seminars/classes on the local level or free/cheaper health club membership?

There was a Labour Party proposal to put such a tax into the next election manifesto but even if VAT was put on to such goods the impact would be minimal - take a £2.99 Big Mac meal at McDonalds with 17.5% VAT it would cost £3.51; a 40p Dairy Milk would become a 47p Dairy Milk. They are price increases but is an extra 50p on a Big Mac meal and an extra 7p on a Dairy Milk enough to put people off? I don't think so and if we did make these foods cost enough to put people off we'd then have a problem with it adding to inflation.

I think these problems come from when you're little and most parents force little kids to eat fruit and veg "cos it's good for you." which then puts the youngster off the fruit and veg because they see it as a punishment because they didn't like it. I think we should do what they're doing in Wales and provide free fruit to primary school kids at break, I remember when I was at nursery and they'd bring round all different kinds of fruit chopped up on a plate for us and it always looked so nice and brightly coloured and really encouraged us to like fruit. Also most people in this country don't do enough exercise so I think that we should make leisure centres totally free to the public and pay for it by increasing council tax.

ElysiumUnknown

30-07-2003, 01:52 PM

Originally posted by monocrat
Looks are just as important as personality. To state that looks don't matter is just a politically correct thing to say.

No, I believe that personality is more important than looks. Of course everyone wants someone they are attracted to, but I think the ability to hold a decent conversation, interact well and a good sense of humour are traits that surpass looks.

As for tax on unhealthy foods, I doubt it would work. People would moan, but still buy it. I think healthy staple foods should be tax free so to encourage people to buy them.

Free exercise classes are a good idea too - although they are not that expensive now, only about £2-3. However most gyms are now stupidly expensive and full of people in tight lycra hoping to pull. :rolleyes:

I think education from a young age about healthy eating and exercise would be the way forward. More focus on children feeling good about themselves and being and feeling healthy - if people grow up respecting their bodies, they will form healthy lifestyles. I think physical education in schoosl needs more focus on health and less focus on competitiveness because I know that is what put me off sport and exercise.

pnjsurferpoet

30-07-2003, 01:57 PM

Kev my problem is there's lot's of people, like I said, including myself who eat at McDonald's and are active and also eat low fat foods who are fine.

I was glad to see legislation introduced to limit liability regarding fast food restaurants. When are people responsible for their actions? Also, why should I pay for someone who can't control his/herself and is lazy or just doesn't like any games/etc. involving physical activity?

Joey Potter

30-07-2003, 02:22 PM

I don't really enjoy McDonald's food very much, but seeing as they're providing me with employment whilst I'm desperately trying to boost funds, I think they are a vital part of our society!

And I only know about our restaurant, but the food that actually goes out to the customers is always hygienic. Yeah, the kitchen staff mess about, chuck stuff around (e.g. gherkins), squirt tartare sauce all over other members of staff, etc, but the actual food served is fine. The story about the milkshake machine is just disgusting. :yuck:

monocrat

30-07-2003, 03:04 PM

kevlar85

30-07-2003, 03:32 PM

monocrat

30-07-2003, 03:40 PM

It's only people without looks who denounce the importance of looks.

Appearance in general is important. If one is scruffily dressed then it generally can denote how much self-esteem that person has. :)

Looks matter, but I agree it's not the be all and end all.

KoolCat

30-07-2003, 03:47 PM

Originally posted by kevlar85
On anorexia, did anyone else see Diets From Hell on ITV on Tuesday? Urgh, I don't usually feel feint at TV programmes but when they showed these pictures of anorexic girls who were literally all skin and bones they'd got off pro-anorexia websites I felt physically sick.

I saw that programme, it made me sick too, to think that people can even think of promoting something so dangerous (in itself and to those who go to those sites)

kevlar85

30-07-2003, 03:47 PM

Originally posted by ElysiumUnknown
No, I believe that personality is more important than looks. Of course everyone wants someone they are attracted to, but I think the ability to hold a decent conversation, interact well and a good sense of humour are traits that surpass looks.

As for tax on unhealthy foods, I doubt it would work. People would moan, but still buy it. I think healthy staple foods should be tax free so to encourage people to buy them.

Free exercise classes are a good idea too - although they are not that expensive now, only about £2-3. However most gyms are now stupidly expensive and full of people in tight lycra hoping to pull. :rolleyes:

I think education from a young age about healthy eating and exercise would be the way forward. More focus on children feeling good about themselves and being and feeling healthy - if people grow up respecting their bodies, they will form healthy lifestyles. I think physical education in schoosl needs more focus on health and less focus on competitiveness because I know that is what put me off sport and exercise.

All food is currently tax free so what I would do to encourage take up of healthy food is take the CAP subsidies from British farmers and give it to supermarkets to reduce the costs of their fruit and veg - not only does it make fruit and veg cheaper it encourages people to buy British produce!

I don't blame you for rolling your eyes - fancy trying to pull in lycra! :lol: The one material that makes everyone who wears it look awful, as well as encouraging sweat - urgh! How can people wear that stuff to the gym when a pair of trackie bottoms and t-shirt are so much more comfortable?

I totally agree with you on school sports! In junior school it wasn't so bad because if it was cold/wet/windy we climbing or something inside and it was always made clear it was just a bit of fun but I hated sports at senior school - cross country, followed by football and cricket. "Cross country is not a punishment" as our sports teacher used to say (as he sent one kid round the playing fields as a punishment!) If the weather was okay it wasn't that bad, I'd just walk at the back and after a while they don't bother chasing you and then you get back and they give you a time and look at me like I'm supposed to care! :lol: Football was the worst - you get all muddy, cold and dirty standing on some football pitch with teams so big that you couldn't even get involved that much anyway and all the good kids are treated like heroes. Stupid really. Cricket also was so boring, unless you were batting or bowling there was nothing for you to do! Yeah, they should stop competitive sport and do fun things for everyone that improves your health, because for every kid who does well and is in a team there are 10 who aren't.

kevlar85

30-07-2003, 04:07 PM

Originally posted by monocrat
It's only people without looks who denounce the importance of looks.

Appearance in general is important. If one is scruffily dressed then it generally can denote how much self-esteem that person has. :)

Looks matter, but I agree it's not the be all and end all.

But Mono who are you to say what "looks" are they're subjective - despite attempts by the media to convince us otherwise. Everyone is good looking to someone and its not just their physical appearance that constitutes a good look.

Who are you to say what scruffily dressed is? How do you know the person didn't spend ages trying to achieve that look? I don't think it denotes how much self esteem a person has - look at how miserable most people in suits look!

As I said before physical appearance is the packaging on the product - if you don't want the product you won't want it no matter how nicely presented it is.

monocrat

30-07-2003, 04:13 PM

Originally posted by kevlar85
But Mono who are you to say what "looks" are they're subjective - despite attempts by the media to convince us otherwise. Everyone is good looking to someone and its not just their physical appearance that constitutes a good look.

Of course looks are subjective. But that does not mean people cannot judge based on them?

Who are you to say what scruffily dressed is? How do you know the person didn't spend ages trying to achieve that look? I don't think it denotes how much self esteem a person has - look at how miserable most people in suits look!

I don't think a person looks 'miserable' in a suit. And it DOES denote self-esteem.

kevlar85

30-07-2003, 04:33 PM

Originally posted by monocrat
Of course looks are subjective. But that does not mean people cannot judge based on them?

No but it doesn't mean they do judge on looks either. You wouldn't give Jordan a place on the board of British Airways just because of how she looked? Jobs are awarded on merit - so are relationships because attraction and lust can only go so far. Most judgements based on looks are purely short term - in the long term its personality that counts.

I don't think a person looks 'miserable' in a suit. And it DOES denote self-esteem.

Okay so a banker in the City who has just been made redundant found out his wife has left him is going to be happy because he's wearing his pinstripe suit while the scruffy student who has just got all As in their A-levels and got the girl of their dreams and won the lottery is going to be miserable because he's wearing tatty old jeans and a faded t-shirt? :rolleyes:

monocrat

30-07-2003, 04:36 PM

Originally posted by kevlar85
No but it doesn't mean they do judge on looks either. You wouldn't give Jordan a place on the board of British Airways just because of how she looked? Jobs are awarded on merit - so are relationships because attraction and lust can only go so far. Most judgements based on looks are purely short term - in the long term its personality that counts.[quote]

So says the PC crowd.....

[quote]
Okay so a banker in the ho has just been made redundant found out his wife has left him is going to be happy because he's wearing his pinstripe suit while the scruffy student who has just got all As in their A-levels and got the girl of their dreams and won the lottery is going to be miserable because he's wearing tatty old jeans and a faded t-shirt? :rolleyes: [/B]

People may think the 'boy' is bad for wearing scruffy clothes. Who is to say what opinions people may hold? People generally judge others on their clothing. It's natural.

kevlar85

30-07-2003, 05:07 PM

Originally posted by monocrat
So says the PC crowd.....
Mono surely if merit and personality didn't count most company directors would be Page 3 model types? The fact that in reality most are old men with the odd spare tyre must prove that merit matters most. Also if your theory applied for relationships no-one would ever stay together because we'd all be looking for the most attractive person and people would get divorced if the husband went bald and the wife put on a few stone when in reality half of marriages last for life and those who do get divorced get divorced because they fall out of love with the personality of their partner or because of money troubles. Also why would people who judge others on their looks be singled out and called shallow if this was the norm?

People may think the 'boy' is bad for wearing scruffy clothes. Who is to say what opinions people may hold? People generally judge others on their clothing. It's natural.
Yes but you were saying it denotes self esteem of the person - now who would be happier in my example - the boy or the banker? Nice try to shift the argument though.

monocrat

30-07-2003, 05:12 PM

Originally posted by kevlar85
Mono surely if merit and personality didn't count most company directors would be Page 3 model types? The fact that in reality most are old men with the odd spare tyre must prove that merit matters most. Also if your theory applied for relationships no-one would ever stay together because we'd all be looking for the most attractive person and people would get divorced if the husband went bald and the wife put on a few stone when in reality half of marriages last for life and those who do get divorced get divorced because they fall out of love with the personality of their partner or because of money troubles. Also why would people who judge others on their looks be singled out and called shallow if this was the norm?

Some people would think it good to be shallow.

Yes but you were saying it denotes self esteem of the person - now who would be happier in my example - the boy or the banker? Nice try to shift the argument though. [/B]

The banker could still have a good opinion of himself.

kevlar85

30-07-2003, 05:20 PM

Originally posted by monocrat
Some people would think it good to be shallow.
Only other shallow people, most people wouldn't.

The banker could still have a good opinion of himself.
Yeah because having your marriage collapse and being made redundant is such a picnic. :rolleyes: More likely he'd want to chuck himself off Hungerford Bridge and no clothes in the world would make him change his depression.

monocrat

30-07-2003, 05:22 PM

Originally posted by kevlar85
[B]Only other shallow people, most people wouldn't.

I doubt it.

ElysiumUnknown

30-07-2003, 07:45 PM

Originally posted by monocrat
It's only people without looks who denounce the importance of looks.

Appearance in general is important. If one is scruffily dressed then it generally can denote how much self-esteem that person has. :)

I was waiting for you to say that, just knew you would. Or maybe it's that people without looks are less vain and egotistic and therefore realise too much importance is placed on looks. I never said I wasn't good-looking anyway...!

And clothes are not a precursor of self-esteem. It simply shows how much a person cares about clothes and appearance or alternatively what their profession requires them to wear.

Looks and appearance have been made important through companies and their advertising so people spend more.

monocrat

30-07-2003, 07:53 PM

I believe one's clothing IS an indication of their self-esteem.

kevlar85

30-07-2003, 07:57 PM

Originally posted by monocrat
I doubt it.

In the words of Loyd Grossman - "Whoooo would have a personality like this?"

from dictionary.com
lacking depth of intellect or knowledge; concerned only with what is obvious; "shallow people"; "his arguments seemed shallow and tedious"

Not intellectually deep; not profound; not penetrating deeply; simple; not wise or knowing; ignorant; superficial; as, a shallow mind; shallow learning.

Lacking depth of intellect, emotion, or knowledge: “This is a shallow parody of America” (Lloyd Rose).

Not many people I would have thought.

ElysiumUnknown

30-07-2003, 07:58 PM

Originally posted by monocrat
I believe one's clothing IS an indication of their self-esteem.

Why? They are just peices of material.

Clothing is usually an indication of wealth....or vanity in today's society.

monocrat

30-07-2003, 08:00 PM

Originally posted by kevlar85
In the words of Loyd Grossman - "Whoooo would have a personality like this?"

Not many people I would have thought.

Well I know and see many people like that!! :lol:

kevlar85

30-07-2003, 08:02 PM

Originally posted by monocrat
I believe one's clothing IS an indication of their self-esteem.

That is flawed in so many ways
1) Clothing does not reflect your mood - see earlier example
2) Income - a happy poor person might only be able to afford stuff from a charity shop while a depressed rich person can afford stuff from Paris and Milan.
3) Materialism - suppose the person is buying themselves better clothing in a futile attempt to raise their self esteem.

monocrat

30-07-2003, 08:05 PM

Why the opposition? Have I touched a nerve?

I think clothing does denote aspects of a person. It's normal to judge others in terms of their appearance.

ElysiumUnknown

30-07-2003, 08:12 PM

Originally posted by monocrat
Why the opposition? Have I touched a nerve?

I think clothing does denote aspects of a person. It's normal to judge others in terms of their appearance.

Yep. We're both really ugly and bitter. :rolleyes:

Clothing reveals aspects of some people, some people don't care about clothes.

First impressions may be judged from clothes, but seeing as most people look the same these days it's obvious clothes do not act as a precursor for people's personality and self-esteem.

kevlar85

30-07-2003, 08:14 PM

Originally posted by monocrat
Well I know and see many people like that!! :lol:

Takes one to know one as the saying goes. :p

kevlar85

30-07-2003, 08:28 PM

Originally posted by monocrat
Why the opposition? Have I touched a nerve?

I think clothing does denote aspects of a person. It's normal to judge others in terms of their appearance.

Ah don't try and change what you were saying - you were saying what a person wears reflects their self-esteem, which by the looks of it you now accept that as wrong.

The opposition is because you're saying such stupid things. You've not touched a nerve Mono, I wear all kinds of clothes - designer stuff, non-labelled stuff, new stuff, old stuff. As you can see... *clicks fingers* lights! *click* catwalk! *click* music! *click* action! ...today I am wearing my newish white T-shirt from Sainsbury's, twinned with some vintage 1980s Levi jeans my dad got out the loft with just a hint of my black CK boxers over the top of the jeans... who said this thread had got silly?! :cool:

Seriously though, of course people will make passing judgements of others because of their clothes but we're back to the packaging question - does the fact I'm wearing what I said above alter who I am? If I were to put on a Versace suit instead of these clothes I wear around the house would that change who I was? Of course not which shows the flaws in your reasoning.

monocrat

30-07-2003, 08:35 PM

Originally posted by kevlar85
Ah don't try and change what you were saying - you were saying what a person wears reflects their self-esteem, which by the looks of it you now accept that as wrong.

I don't hold to it as wrong. I stand by what I state. :)

The opposition is because you're saying such stupid things. You've not touched a nerve Mono, I wear all kinds of clothes - designer stuff, non-labelled stuff, new stuff, old stuff. As you can see... *clicks fingers* lights! *click* catwalk! *click* music! *click* action! ...today I am wearing my newish white T-shirt from Sainsbury's, twinned with some vintage 1980s Levi jeans my dad got out the loft with just a hint of my black CK boxers over the top of the jeans... who said this thread had got silly?! :cool:

Uh-huh...:rolleyes:

Seriously though, of course people will make passing judgements of others because of their clothes but we're back to the packaging question - does the fact I'm wearing what I said above alter who I am? If I were to put on a Versace suit instead of these clothes I wear around the house would that change who I was? Of course not which shows the flaws in your reasoning.

It would denote certain aspects of your character though.

kevlar85

30-07-2003, 08:59 PM

Originally posted by monocrat
I don't hold to it as wrong. I stand by what I state. :)
Then why do you keep trying to alter the question.

Uh-huh...:rolleyes:
Oh.. go and develop a personality :p One with a sense of humour preferably. :p

It would denote certain aspects of your character though.
How can it when you wear so many different types of clothes?

rosi

03-08-2003, 12:53 AM

first of all, why has no one mentioned that mcdonalds is a crap company that doesnt care about the environment, or the people that work for it??
just visit www.mcspotlight.org and you'll know what i mean.

second of all, in my opinion no one can claim to judge people purely on their personality. what constitutes their personality? is it purely the words that come out of their mouth, is it their voice too, or the phrases they tend to use? is it their body language or the way they walk? is it the way they look at people when they talk or the way they laugh? in my opinion there isnt a clear line between looks and personality and no one can claim to disregard one or the other of them when passing judgement about people.

i think what attracts people to other people, as friends or more, or whatever, is a big mix of what they look like, what they're wearing, what they say, what their voice sounds like, what their interests are, their gesticulations, body language....just everything....

obviously appearances are important to lesser extents to some people than to other people but i dont think you can say 'i go for looks' or 'i go for personality', because the line between the two is very blurry.

i personally go for people romantically on the basis of their outlook on life, their appearances (faces/bodies/clothes), the way they carry themselves (walk, posture etc), their passions, their voices, their body language.........

it's a vibe thing!

does anyone get what i mean?