Should we go in and wipe out Hezbollah

[pnjsurferpoet]

I think we need to take a very aggressive stance on the Militant Muslims and anyone who sympathizes with them. We could easily go into Lebanon and take a lot of these creeps out...if for nothing else what they did to our Marines and also because they worked with Al Qaeda in Kenya in December.

I don't care if we have the CIA do it or whoever. Just kill them.

[Heydrich]

I think we need to take a very aggressive stance on the Militant Muslims and anyone who sympathizes with them.

*Watches as Adolf Hitler rises from his grave to tell the world "I told you so" about Jewish warmongerers.*

[Kermit]

Originally posted by Heydrich
*Watches as Adolf Hitler rises from his grave to tell the world "I told you so" about Jewish warmongerers.*

Zionist warmongerers, not Jewish warmongerers. Theres a difference, many Jews dont subscribe to Zionism in the same way not every white person thinks Bush is da bomb.

[Dear Wendy]

Originally posted by Heydrich
*Watches as Adolf Hitler rises from his grave to tell the world "I told you so" about Jewish warmongerers.*

Should probably remove that bullet from his head first...

If you look at it, the guy admeated defeat. How long will it be, before you realise that you're out of your tree?

[Kermit]

Originally posted by pnjsurferpoet
I think we need to take a very aggressive stance on the Militant Muslims and anyone who sympathizes with them. We could easily go into Lebanon and take a lot of these creeps out...if for nothing else what they did to our Marines and also because they worked with Al Qaeda in Kenya in December.

I don't care if we have the CIA do it or whoever. Just kill them.

You are quite retarded arent you? Despite what Bush says, you cant just go and kill whoever takes your fancy or else you might find that they come and kill you. 11/9 doesnt give you lot carte blanche to kill everyone you dont like; you are terrorists as bad as Al Qaeda, you just happen to be a sovereign state of terrorists.

Dont forget that. The rest of the world wont when you come crying cos someones decided to attack you again.

[Heydrich]

Zionist warmongerers, not Jewish warmongerers. Theres a difference, many Jews dont subscribe to Zionism in the same way not every white person thinks Bush is da bomb.

Which is totally irrelevent to whether or not individual Jews identify with other Jews as a race, and act individually in what they perceive to be group ethnic interests. Jewish racial consciousness and Zionism are not the same thing either. The Zionists cooperated with Hitler by the way.

[Kermit]

Originally posted by Jacqueline the Ripper
How long will it be, before you realise that you're out of your tree?

Hes not, that is the scary and saddening thing. the Zionists running Israel, and prevalent in the Bush administration, want to get rid of anyone who has ever looked at israel in a funny tone of voice, they want to rid Israel of all gentiles, of all Arabs. That is their aim. And again they are using their power in the US Government to save them the dirty work and the flack.

Heydrich generalises too much, which makes him racist. It does not make him incorrect about Israeli war aims. His mistake is to equate the Israelis with all Jews, 99% of whom are decent, peaceful people. Zionists are not.

[Heydrich]

If you look at it, the guy admeated defeat. How long will it be, before you realise that you're out of your tree?

LOL Denmark, even Somalia held out longer than Denmark. .

[Kermit]

Originally posted by Heydrich
Which is totally irrelevent to whether or not individual Jews identify with other Jews as a race, and act individually in what they perceive to be group ethnic interests. Jewish racial consciousness and Zionism are not the same thing either. The Zionists cooperated with Hitler by the way.

But it is not irrelevant, you are stating that all jews are in support of attacking any Israeli enemies, which is both factually incorrect and generalised to the point of racism.

Its the racist generalisations which damage your otherwise perfectly accurate point, dont generalise so much, in makes them easy to denounce critics.

[Aladdin]

I've made a few alterations pnj, I hope you don't mind. ;)

Re: Should we go in and wipe out the [US govenment]?

I think we need to take a very aggressive stance on the Militant [Christians] and anyone who sympathizes with them. We could easily go into [Washington and Redneck Country] and take a lot of these creeps out...if for nothing else what they did to [the people of the 21 countries they've bombed since the end of WWII] and also because they worked with Al Qaeda [and numerous other terrorist groups and assorted scum].

I don't care if we have [other scum] do it or whoever. Just kill them.

[Heydrich]

Heydrich generalises too much, which makes him racist. It does not make him incorrect about Israeli war aims. His mistake is to equate the Israelis with all Jews, 99% of whom are decent, peaceful people. Zionists are not.

If 99% of Jews were decent, peaceful, non-racist individuals Israel would not exist in this world today. Jews would not have survived as a collective throughout history if it had not been for their enormous racism against other groups. The Jews have thought of themselves as the original master race for thousands of years. Virtually any other ethnicity scattered throughout the world in such a manner would have been absorbed. Not all Jewish racists are Zionists either and not all Zionists are warmongerers.

But it is not irrelevant, you are stating that all jews are in support of attacking any Israeli enemies

I have never said all Jews are in support of attacking Israel's enemies. I do however claim that it is the "Jewishness" of individual Jews - their sense of ethnic identity - which motivates their vindictive hatred of the Iraqis.

which is both factually incorrect and generalised to the point of racism.

You are setting up a straw man and attacking it. Nowhere have I said all Jews are intent upon attacking their enemies. I have said that individual Jews, acting in what they individually perceive to be group ethnic interests, are motivated to attack Iraq for that reason. You also seem to be confused to what race actually is. Race is not an objective and rigid classification of human beings determined at birth. Race is not a question of who is or who is not or what race but who has race and who does not.

Its the racist generalisations which damage your otherwise perfectly accurate point, dont generalise so much, in makes them easy to denounce critics.

Restated: Individual Americans identify with other Americans as a collective and individually act in what they perceive to be the group interests of "Americans." Nowhere does this mean that ALL Americans (in the objective sense, all American citizens) are in agreement as to some sort of agenda. The error involved here is the confusion of what "American" actually is. There is an *objective* and a *subjective* side. Objectively speaking, an *American* is anyone who is an American citizen. Subjectively, which is much more accurate, it is a question of whether or not individuals identify with *Americans* as a collective, consider themselves to be Americans, and individually act in what they perceive to be group interests.

[Dear Wendy]

Originally posted by Kermit
Hes not, that is the scary and saddening thing. the Zionists running Israel, and prevalent in the Bush administration, want to get rid of anyone who has ever looked at israel in a funny tone of voice, they want to rid Israel of all gentiles, of all Arabs. That is their aim. And again they are using their power in the US Government to save them the dirty work and the flack.

Heydrich generalises too much, which makes him racist. It does not make him incorrect about Israeli war aims. His mistake is to equate the Israelis with all Jews, 99% of whom are decent, peaceful people. Zionists are not.

Don't know if it is your intention or not, but out of your context it reads as if if you refer the right wing as zionists.

Btw, read an (4 weeks old) interview with Mofaz today, and he stated that the Iraq war, was not Israel's war.

Heydrich, denmark was also the country which treated it's Jews in the most humane way during that time, as normal cirizens, and that only 50 Jews died because of the Nazis. Compare that to every other country who was occupied by the Germans.

[Kermit]

Originally posted by Jacqueline the Ripper
Don't know if it is your intention or not, but out of your context it reads as if if you refer the right wing as zionists.

A lot of the right wing in the US are Zionist. Do I need to reel out a list of the usual suspects to prove that point, or shall we take it as read?

Btw, read an (4 weeks old) interview with Mofaz today, and he stated that the Iraq war, was not Israel's war.

Well they would say that, dont you think? Theyre not gonna say "Hey, its all our fault! Bomb us!" are they? Itd be about as likely as Bush admitting he fixed the 2000 election.

[Dear Wendy]

Originally posted by Kermit
A lot of the right wing in the US are Zionist. Do I need to reel out a list of the usual suspects to prove that point, or shall we take it as read?



Well they would say that, dont you think? Theyre not gonna say "Hey, its all our fault! Bomb us!" are they? Itd be about as likely as Bush admitting he fixed the 2000 election.


A lot of the left wing Jews are zionists as well. My old teacher who constantly fed us with left-winged talk, said herself that she was a firm Zionist. I know a lot of that kind.
Being supportive of the existance of Israel, doesn't naturally make you right wing.

Don't you think Mofaz had gained more credit if he'd have spoken of a wish to help the United States, or had stated that he's thankful of what the States are doing. He simply said that this was America's act of acting against threats to world security.

[Heydrich]

Don't know if it is your intention or not, but out of your context it reads as if if you refer the right wing as zionists.

The context I am referring to is specifically Jews who are racially conscious, who act in what they perceive to be group ethnic interests.

Btw, read an (4 weeks old) interview with Mofaz today, and he stated that the Iraq war, was not Israel's war.

This is absolutely Israel's war and it is being prosecuted through the United States. Virtually all the Jewish warmongerers in America and many of the neo-con gentiles are affiliated with the Jewish Insitute of National Security Affairs and other Jewish thinktanks which have been pursuing this agenda for years now.

Heydrich, denmark was also the country which treated it's Jews in the most humane way during that time, as normal cirizens, and that only 50 Jews died because of the Nazis.

That isn't quite "six million" now is it?

Compare that to every other country who was occupied by the Germans.

Actually in Eastern Europe - the Ukraine and Baltic States especially - there was an ENORMOUS backlash against the Jews when the Nazis moved into the area. This was probably because of the sheer number of Jews involved in exterminating millions of Eastern Europeans in the decades prior to WW2. Do not confuse intolerance of the Jews with Germany. Go to Russia these days.

[Clandestine]

No, because even such expressions of solidarity with or even gratitude for the invasion at his level would be taken as confirmation of Israeli backroom collusion by the neighbouring Arab states and more importantly the Arab street.

[Dear Wendy]

Originally posted by Heydrich
The context I am referring to is specifically Jews who are racially conscious, who act in what they perceive to be group ethnic interests.

And you aren't you racially concious?

This is absolutely Israel's war and it is being prosecuted through the United States. Virtually all the Jewish warmongerers in America and many of the neo-con gentiles are affiliated with the Jewish Insitute of National Security Affairs and other Jewish thinktanks which have been pursuing this agenda for years now.

Many people are claiming that had Gore won, the war in Iraq wouldn't have takem place. His vice president would also have been Jewish, and with a broad number of Jewish connections. It's not about being a jew or not, it's about political leaning.



That isn't quite "six million" now is it?
You referred to Denmark, and I replied with an answer connected to Denmark only. No need to jump in it is there?



Actually in Eastern Europe - the Ukraine and Baltic States especially - there was an ENORMOUS backlash against the Jews when the Nazis moved into the area. This was probably because of the sheer number of Jews involved in exterminating millions of Eastern Europeans in the decades prior to WW2. Do not confuse intolerance of the Jews with Germany. Go to Russia these days.

How is that connected to what i wrote?

[Heydrich]

And you aren't you racially concious?

Absolutely.

Many people are claiming that had Gore won, the war in Iraq wouldn't have takem place.

This is plausible. The very same warmongerers, well before 9/11, tried to persuade the Clinton Administration to Iraq several years ago.

His vice president would also have been Jewish, and with a broad number of Jewish connections.

Lieberman is a strong supporter of the war. Perhaps Gore could have been pressured into invading Iraq.

It's not about being a jew or not, it's about political leaning.

Clinton was pressured into attacking Iraq. He did not invade the country however and depose its government. Yes, the neo-con rag Commentary, a publication of the American Jewish Committee, which has been screaming for war against Iraq and several other Arabs states is motivated by Jewish ethnic identification.

You referred to Denmark, and I replied with an answer connected to Denmark only. No need to jump in it is there?

Did the Romans kill several billion Jews?

How is that connected to what i wrote?

You referred to "other countries" that were "occupied by the Germans." I pointed out that huge numbers of Eastern Europeans in countries occupied by Germany went after and killed Jews on their own initiative. The Jews after all did unleash their own Holocaust upon Eastern Europe in the 1920s and 1930s.

[pnjsurferpoet]

the Zionists running Israel, and prevalent in the Bush administration

Kermet you're such a racist. But the justice is that because of people like you, there's an Israel.

Aladdin, this brotherhood of all Muslim, no matter how violent is exactly why I want to see the Palestinians be peaceful before I'd trust them with a state.

We need to aggressively go after the violent Muslim movements wherever they are. If a Muslim cleric declares a Jihad against America, we need to go into any country the bastard is in and kill him.

[Heydrich]

Kermet you're such a racist. But the justice is that because of people like you, there's an Israel.

Apartheid in Israel - Okay

Apartheid in South Africa - Despicable Evil Racists

Aladdin, this brotherhood of all Muslim, no matter how violent is exactly why I want to see the Palestinians be peaceful before I'd trust them with a state.

Wow! That sounds like what the South Africans were saying about the terrorists in the African National Congress. Mysteriously however the governments of Great Britain and America not only refused to even consider South Africa's offer to grant independence to the Bantustans, the sort of deal it deems to be the path to the resolution of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict, but instead, forced the Afrikaners (who cooperated by the way) to grant full legal and political equality to the natives.

We need to aggressively go after the violent Muslim movements wherever they are.

Israel should fight its own wars.

If a Muslim cleric declares a Jihad against America, we need to go into any country the bastard is in and kill him.

Free Speech? Land of Liberty! :rolleyes:

[Clandestine]

It would truly be interesting, pnj, to see how you and millions of other self righteous violence lovers would act if foreign troops were occupying your neighbourhood and killing your friends and family. I suspect you wouldnt be quite so smug then about who the main protagonists of the problems are.

[pnjsurferpoet]

Clandestine, but your gang wasn't even going to force Saddam out of office at all. Belguim and company was only negotiating through the UN to make Saddam comply with WMDs. His position as one of the worst mass murders was just fine with your gang. In fact, they were profiting from him.

[Heydrich]

Clandestine, but your gang wasn't even going to force Saddam out of office at all.

There is a concept that eludes you - national sovereignty.

Belguim and company was only negotiating through the UN to make Saddam comply with WMDs.

No WMD have been found anywhere in Iraq - despite thousands of inspections.

His position as one of the worst mass murders was just fine with your gang. In fact, they were profiting from him.

It was not Saddam Hussein who dropped two atomic bombs on Japanese civilians. It was not Saddam Hussein who firebombed Germany and Japan. It was not Saddam Hussein who used Agent Orange on the Vietmanese. It was not Saddam Hussein who intentionally tried to destroy Vietmanese agriculture in order to starve to death millions of people. It was not Saddam Hussein who supported Siad Biarre in Somalia, Pinochet in Chile, Stalin's Soviet Union, or Pol Pot himself.

[pnjsurferpoet]

"It was not Saddam Hussein who dropped two atomic bombs on Japanese civilians. It was not Saddam Hussein who firebombed Germany and Japan. It was not Saddam Hussein who used Agent Orange on the Vietmanese. "

I'm proud of all of that...it saved American lives. Moral of the story: don't attack America.

Stalin was an example of European appeasement America went along with.

[Clandestine]

Actually Saddam pales to other monsters which Washington has supported. Youd do yourself a world of good by going and doing some research into our Latin American and Far Eastern lackies over the past half a century. Suharto for one outdid Saddam in brutality by far, but we never attacked Indonesia.

And even today you need only look to Musharof to see a brutal darling of Washington in action.

[pnjsurferpoet]

But Musharof is a good Muslim who's keeping the creeps away from us. He was key in destroying Al Qaeda. He's been a good friend to us.

[Clandestine]

Go and research his background and his human rights record and then come back and call him good. You truly know nothing.

[marv]

"It was not Saddam Hussein who dropped two atomic bombs on Japanese civilians. It was not Saddam Hussein who firebombed Germany and Japan. It was not Saddam Hussein who used Agent Orange on the Vietmanese. "

Yeah but have you looked at the consequences of these actions.

The A-Bombs killed thousands of people including women and children. Some of these people died quickly others died slowly and painfully from serious burns or radiation sickness. Since then the legacy of the A-Bombs has caused many children to have been born with birth defects due to the damage done to the surviors.

The firebombing by the US airforce and the RAF of these cities killed thousands of people again many innocents. These actions didnot undermine the German War effect it just killed indiscremitatly

The amount of the agent Orange dropped on vietnam during the war has been estiamated to be over 75 million litres and studies have shown this stuff causes cancer

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/2952407.stm

I'm proud of all of that...it saved American lives. Moral of the story: don't attack America

Why American lives were saved but many innocent people died does that matter? Or are only American lives worth saving

To have pride of these actions is questionable i think the emotion a person should have is maybe shame and remorse as the killing of any innocent for any cause is WRONG

[Kermit]

Originally posted by pnjsurferpoet
[B]Kermet you're such a racist. But the justice is that because of people like you, there's an Israel.[/b/

The definition of racism is to make a decision based entirely on ethnicity and religious faith of a group of people. Rather than take into account differences, racists generalise.

Which leads me on to...

this brotherhood of all Muslim, no matter how violent
We need to aggressively go after the violent Muslim movements wherever they are.

You see pnj, you are indeed a racist, and I, indeed, am not. I do not discriminate against Judaism, I do not say ANYWHERE that Judiasm is an evil faith and that they are all murderous filth. I believe Israel to be an illegal state prosecuting illegal violence against a population, but I do not believe that every single Jew is evil. I would believe Israel to be illegal if the Israelis were Martian; their Judaism is an irrelavance. So do elaborate as to why I am a racist given that- Id be interested to know.

You, however, are in favour of murdering preachers WITHOUT TRIAL because they happen to believe the United States has made mistakes in world politics. You do not trust the Palestinians because they are MUSLIM, not because they are Palestinians. You repeatedly call for Muslims to be arrested in the USA, regardless of their "crimes", you judge Muslim nations as evil regardless of their policy. You decide to murder Muslim fundamentalists, yet do not decide to murder their Christain counterparts or their Hindu counterparts or their Jewish counterparts.

You do have so much to learn little boy. Go back to school and learn what words mean.

[Aladdin]

I wouldn't waste much breath on the boy. To say that you are "proud" of your country dropping Agent Orange in Vietnam is equivalent to a Nazi saying he's proud of Hitler gassing 'inferior' people. Simple as that.

[Heydrich]

I'm proud of all of that...it saved American lives.

That is FLAT OUT lie. The surrender of Japan was imminent yet the American civilian government intentionally and with malice, against Eisenhower, Leahy, and the American military leadership dropped two atomic bombs on Japan.

Moral of the story: don't attack America.

The ONLY thing Yankees understand is FORCE and the ability of other nations to respond with FORCE. The case of Iraq proves that beyond a shadow of a doubt. Attempting to negotiate with Yankee savages is nothing short of a fool's errand as history demonstates countless examples of. North Korea understands this. North Korea will not compromise its security to some farce inspection team like Iraq. That is precisely why any SANE nation should arm itself to the teeth with biological/chemical/nuclear weapons, to defend itself from Jewish/Yankee Imperialism.

Stalin was an example of European appeasement America went along with.

Stalin was an example of one of the biggest mass murderers in world history being armed to the teeth by the United States of America. Eastern Europe has America to thank for almost 50 years of savage Communist tyranny.

[Greenhat]

Originally posted by Heydrich
That is FLAT OUT lie. The surrender of Japan was imminent yet the American civilian government intentionally and with malice, against Eisenhower, Leahy, and the American military leadership dropped two atomic bombs on Japan.

.....


Stalin was an example of one of the biggest mass murderers in world history being armed to the teeth by the United States of America. Eastern Europe has America to thank for almost 50 years of savage Communist tyranny.

1. Engaging in a little revisionist history, aren't we, Heydrich? The ONLY member of the Japanese government who was suggesting surrender was the Ambassador to the Soviet Union. Every other member of the Government (a military dictatorship) was advocating defending the islands to the death. That was still true even after the first atomic bomb was dropped. It took the Hirohito forcing the issue to bring surrender about, despite the clear message of what the Japanese would face if they continued the war.

2. America is to thank for Stalin? We provided the Soviets with trucks, some tanks, some airplanes, during WWII.. but we didn't arm them to the teeth, they were quite capable of doing that themselves. The T-34, Il-2, Mig-9, JS-III, etc. were not produced in American factories.
What do you think would have happened if we had not provided Lend-Lease to the Soviet Union? Germany would have won? Not the slightest chance in hell of that. Please, keep your fantasies to yourself.

[Simbelyne]

Originally posted by Heydrich
LOL Denmark, even Somalia held out longer than Denmark. .

LOL Your STIL living in the 1940's? Nazi weirdo

[Simbelyne]

Originally posted by Greenhat
1. Engaging in a little revisionist history, aren't we, Heydrich? The ONLY member of the Japanese government who was suggesting surrender was the Ambassador to the Soviet Union. Every other member of the Government (a military dictatorship) was advocating defending the islands to the death. That was still true even after the first atomic bomb was dropped. It took the Hirohito forcing the issue to bring surrender about, despite the clear message of what the Japanese would face if they continued the war.

2. America is to thank for Stalin? We provided the Soviets with trucks, some tanks, some airplanes, during WWII.. but we didn't arm them to the teeth, they were quite capable of doing that themselves. The T-34, Il-2, Mig-9, JS-III, etc. were not produced in American factories.
What do you think would have happened if we had not provided Lend-Lease to the Soviet Union? Germany would have won? Not the slightest chance in hell of that. Please, keep your fantasies to yourself.

For once I agree with you Greenhat!

[Kermit]

Oh Greenhat, I do wish youd watch the world with open eyes, rather than blindly follwing whichever right-wing facist is in Washington.

Surrender was not imminent but WWII was almsot at its conclusion, it wouldnt have cost many more US lives to fight the war conventionally. It was a "dont fuck with us" message to Stalin, with whom relations had already deteriorated badly because of everyones favourite fascist George Kennan.

The USA didnt appease Stalin, they sanctioned what he was doing. In order to maintain their financial interests in West Germany the USA allowed Stalin to do what he did in Hungary and in Poland, the US were too afraid of losing their dough to prevent Stalins more dictatorial traits.

And thast the trouble with the US administration- its too damn hypocritical. Suharto is fine cos he allows Shell in his ocuntry, same with the Junta in Myanmar, but Saddam is evil beacsue he doesnt. And because the right-wing Zionists seem intent in destroying all Arabs.

[Kermit]

Originally posted by Simbelyne
LOL Your STIL living in the 1940's? Nazi weirdo

Only argue in here if you ahve the intelligence to at least TRY to justify what you say. Even pnj manages that at least, and hes as simple as two short planks.

[Simbelyne]

Originally posted by Kermit
Only argue in here if you ahve the intelligence to at least TRY to justify what you say. Even pnj manages that at least, and hes as simple as two short planks.

He constantly talks about WWII from a Nazi POV, he uses the name of a Nazi as his nick and he is openly fascist in his views.

[pnjsurferpoet]

That is FLAT OUT lie.


I feel like I'm talking to someone who's posting from an old age home with you. So I hope my arguments to cause you to wing out too much. The bomb saved thousands of American lives as well as Japanese. The Japanese were ordered to commit suicide. Also, you fail to mention the torture and cannibalism the Japanese committed against the Australians and Americans in Baatan. Unlike the Iraqi war, civilian casualties were used in WW2 to foster surrender...that's why Dresdon was bombed the way it was.

[Simbelyne]

Originally posted by pnjsurferpoet
I feel like I'm talking to someone who's posting from an old age home with you. So I hope my arguments to cause you to wing out too much. The bomb saved thousands of American lives as well as Japanese. The Japanese were ordered to commit suicide. Also, you fail to mention the torture and cannibalism the Japanese committed against the Australians and Americans in Baatan. Unlike the Iraqi war, civilian casualties were used in WW2 to foster surrender...that's why Dresdon was bombed the way it was.

Valid point. Every country in WW2 committed war crimes. The nuclear bombs saved hundreds of thousands of americans and japanese. If Iwo Jima had been repeated on the scale of the japanese mainland the casualties would have exceeded hiroshima+Nagasaki.

[Heydrich]

I feel like I'm talking to someone who's posting from an old age home with you. So I hope my arguments to cause you to wing out too much. The bomb saved thousands of American lives as well as Japanese.

Once again you are LYING. Both Eisenhower and Admiral Leahy admitted dropping the atomic bombs on Japan were totally unecessary. That was the same conclusion reached by the U.S. Strategic Bombing Survey as well.

"The use of this barbarous weapon at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan. The Japanese were already defeated and ready to surrender. . . .

In being the first to use it, we . . . adopted an ethical standard common to the barbarians of the Dark Ages. I was not taught to make war in that fashion, and wars cannot be won by destroying women and children."

-- Admiral Leahy

The Decision to Use the Atomic Bomb, p. 3

"The Japanese position was hopeless even before the first atomic bomb fell, because the Japanese had lost control of their own air."

-- Henry H. "Hap" Arnold, Commanding General of the U.S. Army Air Forces

"LEMAY: The war would have been over in two weeks without the Russians entering and without the atomic bomb.
THE PRESS: You mean that, sir? Without the Russians and the atomic bomb?

LEMAY: The atomic bomb had nothing to do with the end of the war at all.

-- Major General Curtis E. LeMay, Commander of Twenty-First Bomber Command,

"MacArthur once spoke to me very eloquently about it, pacing the floor of his apartment in the Waldorf. He thought it a tragedy that the Bomb was ever exploded. MacArthur believed that the same restrictions ought to apply to atomic weapons as to conventional weapons, that the military objective should always be limited damage to noncombatants. . . . MacArthur, you see, was a soldier. He believed in using force only against military targets, and that is why the nuclear thing turned him off. . . . "

-- President Richard Nixion

"The Japanese had, in fact, already sued for peace before the atomic age was announced to the world with the destruction of Hiroshima and before the Russian entry into the war. . . .The atomic bomb played no decisive part, from a purely military standpoint, in the defeat of Japan. . . ."

-- Chester W. Nimitz, Commander in Chief of the Pacific Fleet, New York Times, October 6, 1945

"The first atomic bomb was an unnecessary experiment. . . . It was a mistake to ever drop it. . . . [the scientists] had this toy and they wanted to try it out, so they dropped it. . . . It killed a lot of Japs, but the Japs had put out a lot of peace feelers through Russia long before. "

-- Admiral William F. Halsey, Jr., Commander U.S. Third Fleet

"During his [Stimson] recitation of the relevant facts, I had been conscious of a feeling of depression and so I voiced to him my grave misgivings, first on the basis of my belief that Japan was already defeated and that dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary, and secondly because I thought that our country should avoid shocking world opinion by the use of a weapon whose employment was, I thought, no longer mandatory as a measure to save American lives. . . . "

-- Dwight Eisenhower

"It is my opinion at the present time that a surrender of Japan can be arranged with terms that can be accepted by Japan and that will make fully satisfactory provisions for America's defense against future trans-Pacific aggression. "

-- Admiral Leahy

The Japanese were ordered to commit suicide. Also, you fail to mention the torture and cannibalism the Japanese committed against the Australians and Americans in Baatan.

The Japanese had already sued for peace. The Japanese were defeated and they knew it as well. Dropping the atomic bombs on Japan from the military standpoint was utterly unecessary.

Unlike the Iraqi war, civilian casualties were used in WW2 to foster surrender...that's why Dresdon was bombed the way it was.

Yes, the allies deliberately targeted civilian populations in order to MURDER hundreds of thousands of innocent people.

[Simbelyne]

Originally posted by Heydrich
Yes, the allies deliberately targeted civilian populations in order to MURDER hundreds of thousands of innocent people.

As did all sides. It was barbaric all round.

[Heydrich]

1. Engaging in a little revisionist history, aren't we, Heydrich?

History is the constant reinterpretation of the past.

The ONLY member of the Japanese government who was suggesting surrender was the Ambassador to the Soviet Union.

The U.S. Strategic Bombing Survey concluded that it was utterly unnecessary to drop the atomic bomb on Japan. Eisenhower, Leahy, MacArthur, and Nimitz were all utterly opposed to the savagery of using atomic weapons on Japanese civilians.

Every other member of the Government (a military dictatorship) was advocating defending the islands to the death. That was still true even after the first atomic bomb was dropped. It took the Hirohito forcing the issue to bring surrender about, despite the clear message of what the Japanese would face if they continued the war.

Unsupported accusations. Truman was advised to modify the surrender terms by . . .

1. by Acting Secretary of State Grew on May 28, 1945;
2. by former President Herbert Hoover in a May 30, 1945 memorandum;
3. by Grew again on June 13, 1945;
4. by Counsel to the President Samuel I. Rosenman on June 17, 1945;
5. by Grew once more on June 18, 1945;
6. by Assistant Secretary of War McCloy on June 18, 1945;
7. by Admiral Leahy on June 18, 1945;
8. by the State Department in a formal recommendation of June 30, 1945;
9. by Under Secretary of the Navy Ralph Bard on July 1, 1945 (it appears from certain evidence);
10. by Secretary of War Stimson (with the support of Secretary of the Navy Forrestal and Grew) on July 2, 1945;
11. by Stimson again on July 16, 1945;
12. by Churchill on July 18, 1945;
13. by the Joint Chiefs of Staff on July 18, 1945;
14. by Stimson on July 24, 1945.


2. America is to thank for Stalin? We provided the Soviets with trucks, some tanks, some airplanes, during WWII..

Absolutely.

but we didn't arm them to the teeth, they were quite capable of doing that themselves. The T-34, Il-2, Mig-9, JS-III, etc. were not produced in American factories.

They were produced in factories in the Soviet Union - BUILT BY AMERICANS.

What do you think would have happened if we had not provided Lend-Lease to the Soviet Union? Germany would have won?

Germany and its European allies would have annihilated Communism in Europe if it had not been for the Americans who industrialized the USSR, which armed it to the teeth, and supported its savage conquest of Europe.

Not the slightest chance in hell of that. Please, keep your fantasies to yourself.

There is not the slightest chance in hell the USSR would have been able to conquer Eastern Europe if it had not been for AMERICANS industrializing the Soviet Union in the first place, saving the Soviet Union from collapsing into famine in the 1920s, and supporting it with massive amounts of foreign aid throughout most of its existence.

[Heydrich]

As did all sides. It was barbaric all round.

Only one side used atomic weapons in anger.

[Aladdin]

And only one side used gas chambers to exterminate 6m people.

[Heydrich]

And only one side used gas chambers to exterminate 6m people.

Show me the bodies of the six million people who died in gas chambers. Give me their six million names.

[Simbelyne]

Originally posted by Heydrich
Show me the bodies of the six million people who died in gas chambers. Give me their six million names.

I'm sorry? Did you actually just say that? have you not seen the pictures? Listened to the survivors? That comment is absolutely disgusting.

[Heydrich]

I'm sorry? Did you actually just say that? have you not seen the pictures? Listened to the survivors? That comment is absolutely disgusting.

Once again, show me the six million bodies. Show me autopsies of the six million people who were supposedly "gassed." What are the names of the six million Jews who died? Would they be the same Jews who sued for reperations after the war was over, the same Jews who apparently were large enough to found the State of Israel?

Do you deny the Romans killed several billion Jews? Do you deny the Holocaust? ROFL

http://www.vanguardnewsnetwork.com/images/timeline/1948ausplaq.gif

Four million people suffered and died here at the hands of the Nazi murderers between the years 1940 and 1945."

http://www.vanguardnewsnetwork.com/temp/TerrorTimeline/1990ausplaq.gif

"For ever let this place be a cry of despair and a warning to humanity, where the Nazis murdered about one and a half million men, women and children, mainly Jews from various countries of Europe. Auschwitz-Birkenau 1940-1945."

No wonder its illegal to deny the Holocaust in Germany. Someone might then have to explain how 2.5 million people who were supposedly killed by the Nazis came back to life.

[Dear Wendy]

Originally posted by Heydrich
Show me the bodies of the six million people who died in gas chambers. Give me their six million names.

Oh, you are connected to the kind who believed the Iraqi information minister.

[Aladdin]

You are beyond cure Heydritch...

I suppose you don't believe the Moon exists either. And for all you know the Earth is flat as well.

[Heydrich]

Oh, you are connected to the kind who believed the Iraqi information minister.

Six millions people were killed by the Nazis in gas chambers it is claimed. Who were they? What are the names of these 6 million people?

I suppose you don't believe the Moon exists either. And for all you know the Earth is flat as well.

Europeans used to believe the Earth was flat. Many people were actually burned at the stake for witchcraft for denying it as well just like people are imprisoned today for denying the so-called Holocaust - the sacred cow of this age.

[Simbelyne]

Originally posted by Heydrich
Six millions people were killed by the Nazis in gas chambers it is claimed. Who were they? What are the names of these 6 million people?



Europeans used to believe the Earth was flat. Many people were actually burned at the stake for witchcraft for denying it as well just like people are imprisoned today for denying the so-called Holocaust - the sacred cow of this age.

Are you disputing that it actually happened?

[Heydrich]

Are you disputing that it actually happened?

I absolutely deny the German government killed six million Jews in gas chambers. I also deny the Romans killed several billion Jews for there were not several BILLION people in the world during those times. Who are these people? What are their names? Did the 2.5 million people who supposedly died at Auschwitz come back to life? Do the Holocaust liars admit the German Government was falsely accused of killing 2.5 million people?

[Simbelyne]

Firstly, Why are you talking about Romans?

Secondly, do you not believe the Russian, american and British soldiers who saw the death camps? The photographers whose inadmissable evidence still haunts me from when I first looked at it in a school textbook in year9? The german citizens who had to clear it up? do you wish me to go on?

[Aladdin]

Let me ask you: how many people do you think the Nazis murdered then? And do you think it makes it any less evil if they had killed 2m instead of 6m?

[Dear Wendy]

Originally posted by Simbelyne
Firstly, Why are you talking about Romans?

Secondly, do you not believe the Russian, american and British soldiers who saw the death camps? The photographers whose inadmissable evidence still haunts me from when I first looked at it in a school textbook in year9? The german citizens who had to clear it up? do you wish me to go on?

Heydrich:
Russian, American and British soldiers where bribed by the Jews to tell horific stories.
Photos were manipulated, and people with tattoos did them so they could claim money... etc.

[pnjsurferpoet]

Heydrich, it was a different time...not your government today. It makes us all want to keep an eye on our politicians and abuses of power. But it did happen.

You, for your own sake, need to learn how to hate less. You're going to ruin your life with hate by always being angry. Whatever religion you are. Think about it. Do all people in your relgion think the same? If your answer is no than why would you think all people of another religion would think the same?

[Heydrich]

Firstly, Why are you talking about Romans?

In the Talmud, it is claimed the Romans killed several billions Jews by wrapping them in scrolls and setting them on fire.

Secondly, do you not believe the Russian, american and British soldiers who saw the death camps?

I believe Russian, American, and British soldiers saw what happens in concentration camps when a nation is collapsing, large numbers of people die of sickness and disease. I have seen similar photos from the American War Between the States in Andersonville, GA. This does not mean the Confederates were gassing Union soldiers.

The photographers whose inadmissable evidence still haunts me from when I first looked at it in a school textbook in year9?

Here is a survivor of Andersonville POW camp. Was the Confederacy gassing Union soldiers too?

http://www.shelbycountyhistory.org/schs/civilwar/images/andersonville.gif

The german citizens who had to clear it up? do you wish me to go on?

Plenty of Boers died in British Concentration Camps in the Boer War. Tens of thousands of them in fact. Does this mean the UK was gassing these people to death?

Heydrich:Russian, American and British soldiers where bribed by the Jews to tell horific stories.Photos were manipulated, and people with tattoos did them so they could claim money... etc.

LOL

http://www.codoh.com/graphics/AuschwNoSmoke.JPEG

Original photo published in The Auschwitz Album (New York: Random House, 1981), p. 126 (photo 183). It shows Hungarian Jews shortly after their arrival at Auschwitz. They appear to be relaxed.

http://www.codoh.com/graphics/AuschwSmoke.JPEG

In 1997 the Simon Wiesenthal Center [SWC] posted the same photo on its Website captioned: "As these prisoners were being processed for slave labor, many of their friends and families were being gassed and burned in the ovens in the crematoria. The smoke can be seen in the background." It is dated "June 0, [sic] 1944."

[Dear Wendy]

Originally posted by Heydrich
They appear to be relaxed.


Almost just as much as you appear to be sane.

[Heydrich]

Almost just as much as you appear to be sane.

http://www.aclunc.org/aclunews/news22000/camp.jpg

[Aladdin]

You can dig up all the Nazi apologist shit you want Heydrich... you'll only be deluding yourself. I can point you to whole websites devoted to prove that the Moon doesn't exist. Funnily enough they are very similar in composition to the nonsense you post in here. Half-truths, vague information and lots of photographs that prove fuck all.

Unless of course the reader wants to believe the shit presented to them, in which case everything makes perfect sense.

[nosferatu1000]

NOONE has claimed that the brits or anyone else gassed people held in concentration camps. The only country known to have gassed people is Germany.

If they weren't being gasserd, why the HUGE shipments of zyklon B, a pesticide which vaporises at external body temp [ie a tab is dropped in, and dues to the number of people it turns to a gas] and is fatal t humans?

WHy the suits, which have haircloth lining, found in berlin WITH TRACES OF ZYKLON B ON THEM, and made with hair from auscwitz?

why the huge rooms full of false limbs

you really make me despair. have you ever been to any of the camps there? or Lidice, a village that was wiped out [literally levelled] by the germans in the Czech Republic?

you are a sickening individual

[Aladdin]

He's a lost cause Nosferatu... he believes what he wants to believe. He's probably a member of the Flat Earth Society as well and reads the Weekly World News.

[The Matadore]

Heydrich , the people exterminated in the camps didnt have their names taken down because it would have meant treating them as human beings.

The Nazis beleived the Jews were less than animals , they treated them as nothings , refuse to be extermniated.

The people were hearded off trains , the men and strong women were used as slave labour ( they were later executed) , the rest were sent to gas chambers to die. No attempts were made to take down their names.

as well just like people are imprisoned today for denying the so-called Holocaust - the sacred cow of this age.

Yes , Heydrich , it did happen , and it was the greatest crime the human race has ever committed , and it is our responsibility as members of the human race to make sure it never occurs again.

We must never forget.

I propose that Heydrich immediately be banned from this forum , I find his attitudes repulsive and hideous , as im sure the rest of you do.

[Dear Wendy]

Originally posted by The Matadore


We must never forget.

:) Good to hear that someone still uses the mantra.

I propose that Heydrich immediately be banned from this forum , I find his attitudes repulsive and hideous , as im sure the rest of you do.

As ,uch as Heydrichs comment offend me, I do not believe that banning him is the right way to go with this.

[The Matadore]

hmm perhaps

[marv]

I agree the Holocaust and the evil which was done there must never be forgotten. So that something of this magnitiude is not repeated by others.

I believe that most people agree that the holocaust happened and i believe they was a liable cas in the 1990s involving David Irvin or Irwin cant remember, the trial showed that both it had happened and that Hilter was involved in the final solution. Unfortuantly the details of the trial escape me it was in a lecture last semester and its a bit hazy now
:confused:

Dont suppose anyone has any infomation on it

[Greenhat]

Originally posted by Kermit

Surrender was not imminent but WWII was almsot at its conclusion, it wouldnt have cost many more US lives to fight the war conventionally. It was a "dont fuck with us" message to Stalin, with whom relations had already deteriorated badly because of everyones favourite fascist George Kennan.

Allied estimates of the cost of the invasion of Japan were 1 million US casualties and 5 million Japanese. Japanese estimates were 3 million US casualties and 10 million Japanese.

"wouldn't cost many more US lives"?

[Greenhat]

Originally posted by Heydrich
Germany and its European allies would have annihilated Communism in Europe if it had not been for the Americans who industrialized the USSR, which armed it to the teeth, and supported its savage conquest of Europe.

There is not the slightest chance in hell the USSR would have been able to conquer Eastern Europe if it had not been for AMERICANS industrializing the Soviet Union in the first place, saving the Soviet Union from collapsing into famine in the 1920s, and supporting it with massive amounts of foreign aid throughout most of its existence.

You are living a fantasy.

"Amatuers study tactics, professionals study logistics"

The professionals all agree (including the German ones such as Von Rundstedt and Rommel). The war against the Soviet Union could not have been won by Germany. Under any circumstances. Those horse-drawn supply carts weren't up to the challenge.

As for Japan, I recommend you look at the Japanese documents. They reflect the reality on the Japanese side. And it doesn't match your claims (I see you are continuing to take material out of context and choosing what you think supports your twisted views).

[Darth Fred]

Originally posted by marv
I agree the Holocaust and the evil which was done there must never be forgotten. So that something of this magnitiude is not repeated by others.

I believe that most people agree that the holocaust happened and i believe they was a liable cas in the 1990s involving David Irvin or Irwin cant remember, the trial showed that both it had happened and that Hilter was involved in the final solution. Unfortuantly the details of the trial escape me it was in a lecture last semester and its a bit hazy now
:confused:

Dont suppose anyone has any infomation on it

I believe this is what you are looking for.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/709128.stm

In summary, an American author described him as a holocaust denier, Irving sued for libel, and lost badly.