North Korea admits to nuclear weapon programme

[Aladdin]

It looks like in the not-too-distant future we could be welcoming another member to that select club of nations with nuclear capability. North Korea has admitted, following US pressure, that it has a secret nuclear weapons programme (http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-12144581,00.html) .

This is bad and sad news as far as everyone is concerned. There are already 8 such countries in the world (9 if we count Ukraine) and that is 9 countries too many. The last thing we need is more nuclear warheads.

It is interesting, however, that the US has already stated they will "seek a peaceful resolution of this situation". It is nice to know they do not intend to bomb N. Korea back to the Stone Age for daring to acquire nuclear weapons. However the statement wasn't really necessary as the US has no right whatsoever to tell other countries what they can or cannot do to arm themselves. True, N. Korea is in breach of a 1994 agreement with the US. I could not find the agreement anywhere but all I’ve heard is that N. Korea would receive aid from the US in return for the freezing of any nuclear weapons programme. So it would seem the US has been had. But other than demand to get its money back there is not an awful lot it can do.

The apparent willingness of the US to seek a peaceful solution would indicate, by America's own logic, that N. Korea is not a dangerous state and an immediate threat to its neighbours and the world, as Iraq allegedly is. So will it be taken off the 'Axis of Evil' group of nations?

[cokephreak]

I was more impressed by this
(i know impressed is not the word.. but as far as dodgy admissions go....)


And last month Junichiro Koizumi became Japan's first prime minister to visit the North.

During his visit North Korea made the startling admission that it had kidnapped a number of Japanese citizens in the past for use in their spy programme.


How does the japanese PM react to that kind of news? How do you tell the japanese PM something like that?

[onenatcons]

The Ukraine has nukes? I thought all the former nations of the Soviet Union (bar Russia of course) had destroyed them.

Still, can't one argue that nukes have kept the peace? During the Cold War, what was stopping the West/NATO and the USSR from going to war? :)

[Balddog]

Very sad news...Just when relations between the two koreas was starting to look slightly better. :(

[Toadborg]

Do I detect a flaw in US policy making, could it be that Dubya is not being consistent in his madness. has there been a blunder?

Can't be..............

[Man Of Kent]

I thought that the US had suggested that they were "consulting their allies" before they considered an approach.

[Balddog]

Originally posted by Toadborg
Do I detect a flaw in US policy making, could it be that Dubya is not being consistent in his madness. has there been a blunder?

Can't be..............

Que?

Nothing flawed about it....The US wont attack NK because its a million times more dangerous than Iraq, even before this nuke announcement. I dont think theyve ever said they will bomb/attack/maim anyone who developed WMDs, thats just something certain parts of the political spectrum have assumed :)

[Monkeyboy]

well, for starters, North Korea doesn't have huge oil reserves... ;)

[Man Of Kent]

Originally posted by Monkeyboy
well, for starters, North Korea doesn't have huge oil reserves... ;)

and the "backing" of China...or doesn't anyone remember the Korean War?

[Greenhat]

Originally posted by Toadborg
Do I detect a flaw in US policy making, could it be that Dubya is not being consistent in his madness. has there been a blunder?


When has North Korea used Weapons of Mass Destruction?

[Toadborg]

What like Iraq is so famous for doing?

It wouldn't suprise me if there is some minor incident when the N.Koreans used a weapon that if you stretch the definition far enough could count as WMD..........

Surely the point is that Dubya has classified N.Korea as a rogue state and has also stated (along with Blair) that he will not tolerate rogue states possessing WMD and is prepared to go to war in Iraq to stop this happening.

By the logic of this doctrine we should be preparing a UN resolution against Korea and preparing the military for invasion if that fails.............

[Toadborg]

From a Korean history site........

In February 1993, the North Korean government stated that it would not allow inspectors from the United Nations International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) to enter key nuclear power facilities to monitor compliance with the Nuclear Proliferation Treaty (NPT). North Korea, facing United Nations condemnation and threats of international economic sanctions, announced it would withdraw from the NPT. As the crisis intensified through 1993 and into 1994, North Korea declared that the matter could be resolved only through direct bilateral talks with the United States. Evidence appeared that North Korea had diverted enough plutonium from its power plants to create at least two nuclear warheads, and was testing medium-range missile systems to deliver them with. The United States continued efforts to seek global sanctions against North Korea if it failed to cooperate with the IAEA, but faced ambivalence on the issue from South Korea, Japan, China, and Russia. In late June 1994, however, following a visit to Pyongyang by former President Jimmy Carter as an unofficial emissary, the Kim Il Sung regime announced that it would temporarily freeze its nuclear program. President Clinton announced on June 22 that high-level talks would be held in July in Geneva, Switzerland, between the United States and North Korea. Arrangements for a summit meeting in Pyongyang late in July between Kim Il Sung and South Korean President Kim Young Sam were canceled because of the death of the North Korean president.(5)

[Toadborg]

So..........

1. A history of agression towards the west/western backed countries.

2. Failure of sanctions as to prevent escalation of military resources.

3. A secret WMD programme.

4. Rogue state status.

5. Failure to comply with international agencies and the UN over honouring treaties concerning WMD.

Are these not in fact the exact charges levelled at Iraq?

[Greenhat]

Not quite.

You continue to ignore the history of the current ruler of Iraq who has demonstrated a willingness to use weapons that are classified under international treaty as weapons of mass destruction.

I realize that failing to ignore that point completely destroys your argument and your sarcasm, but life's just that way. :cool:

[Toadborg]

Why do you think N.Korea is developing WMD, for fun and games?

And sorry if I'm being stupid but do you know of the location of a comprehensive list of all of Saddams uses of WMD?

[Greenhat]

Originally posted by Toadborg
Why do you think N.Korea is developing WMD, for fun and games?

Why did Britain develop them?

[Balddog]

Originally posted by Toadborg
Why do you think N.Korea is developing WMD, for fun and games?

And sorry if I'm being stupid but do you know of the location of a comprehensive list of all of Saddams uses of WMD?

Why do you think they have developed them? Are you suggesting they plan on using them agressively?

[reverse]

Toadborg
And sorry if I'm being stupid but do you know of the location of a comprehensive list of all of Saddams uses of WMD?

There's quite a few sources on that, the Kurds, the iranians, the shiite muslims in southern Iraq.

Go search for the info, its there, and maybe if you read it yourself, you might, just might, believe it...

[sopite]

Originally posted by Greenhat


You continue to ignore the history of the current ruler of Iraq who has demonstrated a willingness to use weapons that are classified under international treaty as weapons of mass destruction.


Originally posted by Toadborg
Why do you think N.Korea is developing WMD, for fun and games?

Respectfully, Greenhat, Sir!

Might remember from where the toadborg comes, and their mindset towards the possessions of weapons.

An individual possessing firearms is presumed to be a criminal. Extrapolating within that mindset would indicate that ANY nation possessing nuclear capability would be with "criminal" intent. The ability to discern individual intent from possible capability has been bred of the subjects: it is beyond their comprehension level.

Example...

If you were to pass me walking down the street, and your M-4 is slung, I would not likely perceive a threat from you; I would observe you, but not engage you pre-emptively. Now, should an East Ender pass by waving his rifle and making loud boasting threats, I would perceive THAT as a definitive threat, and engage immediately.

For those who are possessed by an irrational fear of weapons, ALL who have weapons are a threat to their security (or the lack thereof... ;) ). You and me (and reverse, also)? Judge the person, not just the weapon...

Since you do so much better articulating my thoughts than this grunt NCO, perhaps you might re-state the perspective... :D

[onenatcons]

Originally posted by Greenhat


Why did Britain develop them?

Cold War, no? ;)

[Greenhat]

Originally posted by onenatcons


Cold War, no? ;)

And what EXACTLY does that entail and mean in regards to developing WMD?

[Whowhere]

We've had the ability to make nuclear weapons for the last 60 years, and have never used them.
We have never shown an intention or desire to use them.

Korea on the other hand, isn't fond of the USA, and I doubt it would take much to persuade them to nuke the USA. However, they have expressed no desire to see the US in a smouldering ruin, they have never used WMD's before on troops or civilians, and the only reason it has been classed as a rogue state is because it dares to be communist.
By that classification, China is also a rogue state, as is Cuba. Both of which must be eliminated.

The real reason the US won't enforce it's posistion in Korea is because it knows China would undoubtedly help them, and the US would probably be sucked into a drawn out ground war and watch as it's expensive tanks and jets are destroyed by guerillas and invidividuals hiding behind trees.

[Greenhat]

The bulk of your commentary is basically right on the button, WhoWhere, except for the reasons that North Korea is considered a rogue state (a little research into their actions over the last 50 years might be enlightening), and the actions of the US in respect to NK having much of anything to do with China.

China and North Korea are no longer the bed partners they were in the 1950s. It's unlikely that China would have anything to do with a war on the Korean peninsula unless crossing the Yalu was indicated or threatened. That doesn't mean that the US wants a war in Korea. As you pointed out, the regime there has shown no tendency to use WMD, and there situation in Korea and the opportunity for reunification are steadily increasing.

[Uncle Joe]

Originally posted by Greenhat
And what EXACTLY does that entail and mean in regards to developing WMD? Ask the British :D

[Greenhat]

Originally posted by Uncle Joe
Ask the British :D

I believe I am...

[Uncle Joe]

Originally posted by Greenhat
I believe I am... This just in... Sauce for the goose not sauce for the gander...

Greenhat
Mega Poster

Registered: Jun 2002
Location: Thailand
Posts: 638

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Uncle Joe
No need to speak out for the Stern gang, though.

They did their own talking.

Was Israel founded on irrational behaviour?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


You'll have to ask the British.


__________________
De Oppresso Liber
Pugnare Fornicare Autmori


And I am British, so that remains a nonsensical response...

[Greenhat]

Well, since you had to ask the question, I assume you haven't bothered to investigate your own history.

[Uncle Joe]

Originally posted by Greenhat
Well, since you had to ask the question, I assume you haven't bothered to investigate your own history. That would be 'Israel was founded on irrational behaviour', then.

Still in the dark about why you had to ask such a silly question, though. Do you often post comments without reason?

[Greenhat]

Originally posted by Uncle Joe
That would be 'Israel was founded on irrational behaviour', then.

Still in the dark about why you had to ask such a silly question, though. Do you often post comments without reason?

Interesting to see if people bother to think about what they are saying. As you have so amply illustrated. :D

[Uncle Joe]

How so?

[Uncle Joe]

ps, hi reverse! (sees who's online)

[Uncle Joe]

And Jaqueline! PARTY!!

[Dear Wendy]

Originally posted by Uncle Joe
And Jaqueline! PARTY!!

Well hello there.

*Has never seen anyone so delighted of own presence in this forum* :blush:

How can I help you m'dear?

[Uncle Joe]

Originally posted by Jacqueline the Ripper
*Has never seen anyone so delighted of own presence in this forum* :blush:Surely that can't be true?

Was just impressed by the grouping of you, Greenhat and reverse in such a small (chronological) area. It would only need sophite to complete the set :D

[Uncle Joe]

And Sopite too? You couldn't make it up... :)

[reverse]

uncle joe having a conversation with... errrr yourself??

http://www.zooish.com/_borders/Front_rhino_jumping_on_trampoline_ty_clr.gif

A heavy conversation with a lot of bounce...


http://www.zooish.com/_borders/Front_hamster_cartoon_sm_wht.gif
Pointing out everyone's shortcomings??

[Toadborg]

Originally posted by Greenhat:Why did Britain develop them? Precisely!