Al-taqiyya ~~ No Truth To Non Islamics

[Diesel]

I found this while out 'surfing' this morning and believe it to be a pretty good description of the subject matter so I am posting it here for discussion.

We in the US see a lot of this sort of thing on the tv news...especially representives from Iraq making statements to the press concerning current events, etc.

Now, no bashing islam here please...this is for discussion only and since it came off of a bbs in the UK I believe it is all legal content.

"Al-taqiyya

Al-taqiyya and dissimulation are words used for a practice of Muslims blatantly lying to non-Muslims. All but some of the most fundamental Muslims consider the act of Al-taqiyya or lying to non-Muslims to be a good work. This is very important when one remembers that, in Islam, salvation is determined by good works. This means that a Muslim lying to a non-Muslim is that Muslim doing a good work to earn salvation. It is almost equivalent to a Christian accepting Jesus as his savior. One of the big differences is that a Christian only needs to accept Jesus as his savior once to become saved forever but a Muslim must do his good works consistently and repeatedly to earn his salvation with the except of the greatest work of dying while fighting non-Muslims.

This is particularly important when one realizes that the only work which can guarantee salvation for a Muslim is to wage war against and kill non-Muslims or at least support those who do wage war against and kill non-Muslims. It is only logical that to lie in support of a war against non-Muslims could guarantee salvation for a Muslim because it would be considered supporting the war. This is a very powerful motivation for any Muslim to lie to any non-Muslim for any reason but especially when concerning any war or military effort against non-Muslims.

I have learned that, for this reason, it is very common practice for Muslims, especially leaders, to lie about the war against non-Muslims. These lies come in many forms such as denying that Islam is a war against non-Muslims, that the Koran teaches salvation through fighting and killing non-Muslims, feigning sympathy for the US concerning 9/11, or Muslim countries denying that they have military intentions against Israel, the US, or other non-Muslim countries.

This raises a number or questions. Are the Muslim peace protestors in the US actually using Al-taqiyya or dissimulation to earn their salvation by lying and trying to interfere with the US and Israel's efforts to defend themselves? Is the Muslim sympathy for the US concerning 9/11 Al-taqiyya earning the salvation of the Muslims by feigning sympathy for the US? Are the Muslim leaders and official speakers using Al-taqiyya to earn salvation by lying to the US media about them fighting because they are "being oppressed by Israel" when there are plenty of Muslims who are citizens in Israel, have good jobs, have their own prosperous businesses, who vote, and are even in the Israeli government?

I recently watched a ABC 20/20 news show by Barbara Walters where she went to Saudi Arabia to confront different people there about text which had been uncovered in public school books which taught hatred and murder of non-Muslims but specifically Jews. I watched as every Muslim male and almost every Muslim female she sat down with to interview blatantly lied about what the Koran says concerning war, hatred, and murdering towards the Jews. Not one of them told the truth. This was clearly Al-taqiyya.

Interestingly, she kept querying about certain terms which stated that Jews would hide behind the trees and the trees would call out to the Muslims, "A Jew is hiding behind me, come and kill him." Not one of the Muslims interviewed told her about the Muslim prophesy concerning the end times (see my page "Koran and Bible Prophesy") where it is said that the Jews and Christians will hide behind the trees and rocks and that the trees and rocks will cry out, "A Jew or a Christian is hiding behind me, come and kill him." Instead, they ALL lied to her about Islam being a religion of peace except for three young radicals who kind of half admitted that Islam and the Koran have an agenda of war and murder. But even they were very careful to tone the militant talk down from what the Koran really says and is preached by the orthodox or fundamentalist Muslims.

It should be noted that I have read on some Muslim sites that a few more fundamental Muslim sites do not commit dissimulation, are open about the warrior mentality of Islam, and are proud that they do not dissemble or lie. But my understanding is that this is only the most "radical" or orthodox Muslims. It seems that the vast majority of Muslims are actually proud that they do dissemble or lie. The problem is, how can you tell which ones are not lying to you if you don't know the Koran and Islam? Basically, you can't believe the few because of the many. It is my opinion that the only Muslims a non-Muslim can believe about anything are the fundamentalist Muslims who openly admit that Islam is a warrior religion and that they are required to destroy all non-Muslims. Even then, we need to be careful.

In summary, Al-taqiyya and dissimulation mean that no non-Muslim can believe anything told to them by any Muslim especially if it has to do with the Koran's perpetual Jihad against all non-Muslims. For that Muslim to lie to you is for that Muslim to do a good work towards earning salvation.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


But don't believe me! Read the Koran and do the research yourself! "
:eek:

[z_lionheart]

few facts need to be cleared
1- Islam does not encourage laying under no circumstance.
2- Laying to non-Muslims as a core teaching of the Koran is not a rule of thumb. Only in cases of war it becomes a strategy rather than a rule
3- Not all non-Muslims are enemy’s of Islam and Muslim people, but we have to admit that Muslims have been subjected to continuous bios and mistreat by a lot of Western countries mainly US and Britain.
4- We need to distinguish between the average Muslim person and a radical Muslim who would interpret Koran to justify his own means of doing some thing.
5- Al-taqiyya is an interpretation of one group of Muslims who believe that it is allowed to lie to non-Muslims in a state of war.
6- True Koran states that there will be a war between Muslims and Jews (not the Christian) over Palestine and yes the trees will talk. Muslims believe this because it is mentioned in the Koran and the reason it is mentioned in Koran because of the things they have and still doing to Muslim and Christian Palestenians since 1948. I am sure if you the follow the news objectively and know a little bit of the history of the injustices the palastineins seen in the last 55 years you might understand why.
7- Islam fights against injustice not against non-Muslims.
8- The Middle East region which is 99% Muslims have been cursed by the gift of Oil which is the vital nerve of survivor for the Industrial world mainly US. Controlling Oil is an objective of the US and no body is blind of that fact. The only way to control the region is by subjecting it and here comes Israel into existence.
9- It is said in the Koran that the rules of Islam can not be applied to non-Muslims until all Muslims are united under one flag and one leader which is not the case now.

Just few things for you to think off and may be clear few things as well.
Cheers

[Diesel]

z_lionheart, thanks for the input...personally I have known many islamic people that I thought quite highly of. Discussing these issues with one who is a good friend his comment was; "...muslims will always back other muslems in matters dealing with kafir...that I should never turn my back on any muslem when dealing with them and that included him!"

Your points are well taken but the truth is we, US, are at war with islam whether our leaders speak of it publicly or not. There is no desire to 'convert' the islamics when in fact their own religion is the most useful form for keeping them in line while we, US, go about our business...oil and all that it entails.

btw, the Bali bombing has been widely reported here in US...our condolences to everyone...especially the Australians who lost so many.

[z_lionheart]

Thanks for your sympathy. Very bad what had happend in Bali and i guess it is part of the cycle of violence by some body to terror innocent westoners every where. I think if this is get linked to some Muslim group it is going to be very bad on Islam image, not it is not already damaged but its going to be another excuse to enforce the hatered. all what i can see and say its very bad and ugly.

[reverse]

z_lionheart
Another terrible attack, my condolences to all those that suffered a loss..

Seems that soon all Nations will be mourning those murdered by these animals..


9- It is said in the Koran that the rules of Islam can not be applied to non-Muslims until all Muslims are united under one flag and one leader which is not the case now.
True, but this is not the first time that radical islamic groups have ignored or twisted the Koran...

[z_lionheart]

Reverse, Thanks for your sympathy.

What is really confuses me sometimes is the fact are radicals are found every where from all sort of religions and belief groups but what when it is done by a radical Muslim group all Islam is blamed for it. The same with what ever is happening in Palastine, I can not claim that all Israeli’s are bad or the palastiniens are because of the few who are doing the wrong things. It is madness, shame and no just right.

[reverse]

z_lionheart
Blaming all islam is as bad as blaming us for the Crusades. Point is, the radical islamics kill thousands of times more muslims than they do us westerners.

I work with a palestinian. No one would like growing up where he did.. It was not the jews he feared, but arafat's goons.. To disagree is to be beaten or killed.

If I would post Muneer's views, lets just say clandestine and alladin would be very upset.

BTW, I do not make excuses for anyone, Israel included. If something is wrong, it is wrong no matter who did it...
Some here wear blinders, they only see one side. People are dying and its a debating game.

Mark my words, before this is over the terrorists will prove they live to kill any and all..
Ask what did those people in NYC, Bali, Helsinki, and so many places do to deserve being killed..

I am against terrorism and in time every one will be against them.. The reason is simple, the radical islamic terrorists will keep on killing people until even those like alladin and clandestine are convinced..

[Greenhat]

Originally posted by reverse
the radical islamic terrorists will keep on killing people until even those like alladin and clandestine are convinced..

Or dead...

[sopite]

Originally posted by Greenhat


Or dead...

Such exquisite irony, would it not be? ;)

[Uncle Joe]

Originally posted by sopite
Such exquisite irony, would it not be? ;) Greenhat, he's our man
Dum de dum de dum de dum... :love: :hyper:

GOOOO, GREENHAT! :D

:rolleyes:

[reverse]

Unca Joe,
That's correct, he is a man... And you're a wannabe. :p

[sopite]

Originally posted by reverse
Unca Joe,
That's correct, he is a man... And you're a wannabe. :p

A never will be, never would be, never could be.

A person should always know their limitations. Some talk about it, and some just do it...

And YES!, it would be such exquisite irony should those of the mindset of the clandestine one, alladin, and uncle joe come to their demise through the efforts of the very miscreants they defend and adulate...

[Uncle Joe]

Eek! 'Attack Of the Rabid Cheerleaders'..! :eek:

[Aladdin]

the radical islamic terrorists will keep on killing people until even those like alladin and clandestine are convinced..





Or dead...

Now why on earth would you two say that? What makes you clueless people think that I condone, approve or look the other way as far as terrorism, Islamic or otherwise is concerned?

It's not 'people like me' but the USA and all its hawks who might to get us all killed, mainly because:

The US's continuing policy of total support and military aid for Israel, including blocking of UN resolutions and diplomatic pressure to ensure it continues to abuse, kill and oppress the Palestinian population has unsurprisingly enraged the whole of the Arab and Muslim world. Most people will do nothing more than protest and express their utter disgust but there will always be a minority ready to commit terrorist acts. As long as the US continues to act this way whilst cynically bomb other countries who have also failed to comply with UN Resolutions there will be a good number of people ready to commit atrocities.

The so-called war on terror has long been abandoned. The failure to bag bin Laden and the continuation of America's long-term agenda on foreign policy means that GWB has turned all his might and attentions to Iraq. Which, regardless of how many times they try to tell us- without proof or foundation- has fuckall to do with terrorism.

Terrorism might never be eradicated. But if the US stops acting like an asshole in the international arena and starts behaving properly you would see a lot of that hostility disappearing.

[Greenhat]

Originally posted by Aladdin

The so-called war on terror has long been abandoned. The failure to bag bin Laden and the continuation of America's long-term agenda on foreign policy means that GWB has turned all his might and attentions to Iraq. Which, regardless of how many times they try to tell us- without proof or foundation- has fuckall to do with terrorism.

Terrorism might never be eradicated. But if the US stops acting like an asshole in the international arena and starts behaving properly you would see a lot of that hostility disappearing.

Ah, yes..."behaving properly" meaning as Aladdin thinks we should act.

Let me put it simply. Fuck off. Not interested in being sheep, thank you.

As for the war on terror being abandoned. Thanks for letting me know. I'll pass that on to my colleagues in Afghanistan, the Phillipines, Georgia (former Soviet Georgia that is), East Timor, a variety of other locations throughout Africa, the Middle East, Central and South America and SE Asia. I'm sure they'll be interested to know that the conflicts they are involved in are all on hold. :rolleyes:

[sopite]

Originally posted by Aladdin

But if the US stops acting like an asshole in the international arena and starts behaving properly you would see a lot of that hostility disappearing.

So right you know, and so well considered... ALL acts of terrorism are focused towards the world's hatred of the US...

*stumbles off to ponder the question of how IRA terrorist actions are based within the Irish hatred for American foreign policy*

[Greenhat]

Originally posted by Aladdin
Greenhat: all these colleagues of yours throughout the world, were they all sent to their posts after September 11 2001?

The large majority of them were. So much for your thoughts.


You know what 'war on terror' we are talking about. The much-trumpeted one where Al Queida was to be permanently disbanded and its leaders captured or killed. This is a 'war' where the US actually counted with most of the world's support.

Hmmm...so, you think that Al Queida is the only terrorist organization in the world? I suggest you go back and reread those speeches. The war is a long one and far from over. Just because no one has published all the activities involved doesn't mean they aren't happening. Has your life been covered by the media? Oops...guess it hasn't happened!

[bud]

Diesel,
I am not backing anyone but please read my words.
I was so sorry when I read your comment on milosovic. I was involved in the conflict as a member of NATO forces. unfortunately you completely didnt understand or forgot the logic behind it.
Stop blaming muslim world for what extremists do. These people are completely out of the way. Have you studied the way of life in muslim countries with western SECULAR governments and education systems? where women is treated as an equal being. No religious laws are in effect. Education is with latin letters and the judicial system is western? That is what I observed in Turkey.. Quite unfortunately that was also the case in Bosnia before milasovic. now they are trying to recover but they do not know what to do with the raped women and the babies from serbian soldiers. Algeria is another example.
So please do not let your anger blow your mind and put you in the same place with the brainwashed muslim extremist terrorists. Did you know that these countries I named above have extremist muslim underground groups fighting against their own country to set up rejimes like taliban or the one is Iran. Muslim killing muslim. Think about it and dont just listen to your media. Read both sides of the issue.
sorry I post this in 2 treads

[Turtle]

bud, I was not saying anything to just be mean...I'm a realist...we, US, are at war with islamics...all of them!

Some pretend to be our friends to our faces and then use the money they earn from us in treade to finance wahhabism, etc. For me to deny this would verge on stupid.

From a purely personal point of view, I consider islam a heritacal cult and a most dangerous one at that...dangerous to US and to their own. I don't hate them for it, but rather would rather not allow an edge that would give them an upper hand.

As for the islamics in the Balkans...the remnants of conversion by the sword...and as one Serbian Sgt. said on the news here; "...what's everyone mad at us for we are just running the muslims the rest of the way out of Europe."

And while I wish the islamics no ill will personally it is not my view that they feel the same way towards me and mine...Bush in his first reply to 9/11 named it a 'Crusade' and so it was/is/shall be!

As for the way one group of islamics handle themselves compared to other islamics...the fact remains that against US they will all side together.

Finishing on a personal note...the islamic people that I know and meet in my neighborhood are very polite, clean and friendly...but as one good islamic acquaintance said to me...never turn your back on a muslim, not even me!

(wonder if I'm still Turtle?)

Diesel

88888888

[Aladdin]

bud, I was not saying anything to just be mean...I'm a realist...we, US, are at war with islamics...all of them!

Some pretend to be our friends to our faces and then use the money they earn from us in treade to finance wahhabism, etc. For me to deny this would verge on stupid.


With such warped and ignorant view of hundreds of millions of people it’s not surprise many throughout the world feel persecuted by the United States.



From a purely personal point of view, I consider islam a heritacal cult and a most dangerous one at that...

Who is being a religious bigoted fanatic now?



As for the islamics in the Balkans...the remnants of conversion by the sword...and as one Serbian Sgt. said on the news here; "...what's everyone mad at us for we are just running the muslims the rest of the way out of Europe."
[/B]

Come back Adolf, all is forgotten!



And while I wish the islamics no ill will personally it is not my view that they feel the same way towards me and mine...Bush in his first reply to 9/11 named it a 'Crusade' and so it was/is/shall be!


I’m actually coming to the defence of Bush here. I’m sure he didn’t use the word crusade with the meaning you are implying. He might be a bit dumb but not that much.



As for the way one group of islamics handle themselves compared to other islamics...the fact remains that against US they will all side together.


If your moronic twisted thinking is common in the US, who can blame them!



Finishing on a personal note...the islamic people that I know and meet in my neighborhood are very polite, clean and friendly...but as one good islamic acquaintance said to me...never turn your back on a muslim, not even me!


And I’m sure that person was speaking on behalf of the whole Islamic community… :rolleyes: I know a good number of Muslims myself, and there are as trusworthy- if not more- than your average white bible-bashing christian.


What a post! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Turtle]

Thank you for your attention, glad you enjoyed the post...and yes, Bush did say Crusade...and the intent was especially clear in the islamic world where it is quoted constantly.

Diesel

88888888

[bud]

Hi turtle,

If the ottomans converted balkans to islam by sword then bulgaria and most importantly greece would be a muslim country because both stayed under ottoman rule for more than 4 centuries if I am not mistaken.

one very important thing I want you to take into consideration is that Do Not mix muslims with Arabs!!! not all muslims are arabs.

[ edited to remove racist content. watch it, bud - any more and you're out - BB ]

who ever your good islamic acquaintance is you should not trust him that much.

plus Bush administration is very aggressive and this is very unfortunate. I wish US was still under clinton's administration.

[Turtle]

Originally posted by Turtle
Thank you for your attention, glad you enjoyed the post...and yes, Bush did say Crusade...and the intent was especially clear in the islamic world where it is quoted constantly.

Diesel

88888888

Dammit Diesel, use your own bloody name. :p

[Toadborg]

Originally posted by bud:
[ racist comments removed by moderator - see original post ] Is it me or has this thread descended even deeper into madness than when it originally started out?

[Aladdin]

It's not you. Nowadays there are comments in this forum that would make Hitler blush.

[Turtle]

bud, I'm Diesel 88888888 not Turtle...with no detraction to Turtle intended;

must be this bbs software!

Wonder who I'll pop out as today?

Some of us here are starting to think the beltway shooter is a Bosnian with French Citizenship and a cadet at the French Military Academy AWOL in US/Canada...it has been in the papers over there but we can't find a picture...I'll post directly to this subject on another thread...in any case, some of us think the shooter is an islamic.

[sopite]

Originally posted by Diesel


Some of us here are starting to think the beltway shooter is a Bosnian with French Citizenship and a cadet at the French Military Academy AWOL in US/Canada...it has been in the papers over there but we can't find a picture...

Which photo can you not find?

http://eur.news1.yimg.com/eur.yimg.com//xp/ap_photo/20021021/all/t657268.jpg

[Turtle]

The cadet is 25 years old...that photograph is of the head of St. Cyre (sp), the French Military Academy!

Diesel

88888888

(guess I'm still Turtle...wonder who Diesel 88888888 is?)

[osmotic]

I agree with Diesel that intolerance of anothers religion or culture is a cancer affecting mankind on a global scale. It is nasty and insidious and should never be tolerated by any decent thinking person.

Now I've nothing personal against religions per se but what do you folks think of this article. As with Diesel, I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with the following, only posting it up for discussion if you will......

"THE CHRISTIAN REICH IN SULLIVAN COUNTY, TENNESSEE

The Sullivan County Commission, under pressure from local Christian fundamentalists, has de-facto declared that Christians only are welcome in this rural community buried in central Appalachia. While this is bad enough in itself, there is an even more sinister aspect to the term "Christian" as used by these people: Catholics, Mormons, and non-Christians are considered in league with Satan.

The fact is that fundamentalist Protestants are considered the only real Christians, while all others are considered inferior or worse. The local fundamentalists promote a type of religious purity that sounds a lot like the racial purity poison of Adolph Hitler. Simply put, there is no difference between those that hate others over racial differences and those that hate others for religious reasons. Before one can understand the reason all of this is happening, let's look into the history of a region that remains a Ku Klux Klan stronghold.

Before I begin, let me be clear on one thing: This is not an attack on the Christian faith or the majority of decent Christian people of this nation. Despite the claims of Falwell, Robertson, and other TV preachers, there is not and never has been a state religion in America and this nation is not a "Christian Nation" in any legal sense of the word. While Christians as a group outnumber everyone else, they are so splintered that they can't even decide who is or isn't right. Most modern Christians adhere to a live and let live policy while extremist factions (mainly Protestants), use the Bible as an excuse for their hatred of others. Fundamentalist religion of any kind is anti-God, anti-American, and is an insult to the teachings of Jesus.

Sullivan County is located in upper East Tennessee and borders Scott and Washington counties in Virginia. The area is also known as the Tri-cities; it consists of the cities of Kingsport, Johnson City, and Bristol. Kingsport is the home of Eastman Chemical, the regions largest employer, Johnson City is the home East Tennessee State University, and Bristol is the home of Bristol Motor Speedway. The VA/TN state line divides Bristol: Half lies in Sullivan County, Tennessee, the other half is in Washington County, Virginia. Between these three small cities is Sullivan County; the whole region is commonly known as the Bible Belt.

Recent economic problems in the region are fueling social unrest. The almost total collapse of the Virginia coal industry, combined with endless plant closings, have driven thousands into poverty while thousands more have moved out. According to an article in the Bristol Herald Courier, over 30,000 people between the ages of 18 and 45 have left the area, while almost 40,000 retirees have moved in. The area has a poverty/unemployment index of over 20% in Sullivan County and a staggering 50% or more in some surrounding counties.

The huge influx of retirees only makes matters worse by driving up the cost of everything (they live on income from outside of the area, not the local economy), while most working people live off jobs that pay only $5-6.00 per hour. Higher rents, taxes, etc. have made paying bills utter hell for working families while retirees don't care as long as someone serves their food at local restaurants. The business community actively works to block out higher paying jobs to protect the low-wage tourist and retirement industries. This creates fertile ground for rising divorce rates, child abuse, and the growth of hate groups such as the Ku Klux Klan and fundamentalist churches.

While all Klan members claim they are Christians (usually Southern Baptist), most residents don't support the Klan at all. Unfortunately, both fundamentalist Christians and the KKK support many of the same ideals and it is hard to tell them apart. To get a better idea of what all of this is about, let's take look at recent local history.

Over the last several years, local Ku Klux Klan members have staged rallies at Steel Creek Park in Bristol, Tennessee and other locations across the county complete with cross burningsWhile ma. ny members of the community expressed outrage, most public officials and fundamentalist Christians remain silent.

About three years ago a rock group called White Zombie made an appearance at Viking Hall in Bristol, Tennessee. Local officials and Christian fundamentalists expressed outrage and with shouts of "Satan", and attempted to block the concert. During the concert, hysterical Christians sat outside in snow and twenty-degree temperatures to protest the event. Crying, praying, and making general asses out of themselves, they harassed the young people while the press turned the whole community into a joke. Rock concerts have been banned in Bristol, while the Klan plays on.

Two years ago local Christian fundamentalists, backed by Pat Robertson's Operation Rescue, picketed a family planning clinic in Bristol, Tennessee. Patrons were subjected to the usual abuse, threats, and attempted violation of their civil rights that Operation Rescue is famous for. Federal court orders would eventually put a stop to the abuse. Local politicians refused again to stand up for their citizens.

In 1997, Jerry Falwell and so-called "Christian Conservatives" seized control of the Southern Baptist Convention. Within days they began the expulsion and removal of moderate and liberal members unless they followed the fundamentalist line of social and religious intolerance. Religious cleansing had begun and even affiliated colleges would soon come under attack. The conversion (meaning persecution) of Jews and Mormons was to be a top goal of the new Southern Baptist leadership.

In November 1998, the new Baptist policy of religious cleansing would reach East Tennessee. The Tennessee Baptist Convention, meeting in Kingsport, voted to strip nearby Carson-Newman College of $2.4 million because it refused to let the Convention pack their board of trustees with religious extremists. Carson-Newman is a fine traditional Baptist College that wasn't about to be dragged into the sewers by Falwell's henchmen. The Sullivan County Commission expressed the usual silence. Unfortunately, not only were churches and colleges targeted for cleansing, but local businesses would also be under attack.

In October 1998, in nearby Marion, Virginia, members of the Blessed Hope Baptist Church picketed a local photography shop. While these people claimed that naked elbows and kneecaps constituted pornography, they harassed customers and handed out leaflets depicting a man shooting at someone. Is someone firing a gun really an appropriate symbol for the Prince of Peace? Whatever happened to clouds and crosses?

http://www.sullivan-county.com/news/rel_war/rel_war.htm

[Turtle]

Prince of Peace indeed;

Messiah said: "I bring not peace but a two edged sword...!"

Diesel

88888888

(still stealing Turtle's name I guess)

[osmotic]

Are you feeling alright :confused:

[Turtle]

Not really...I'm still 'Turtle' and don't know why!

Diesel

88888888

[DJP]

Originally posted by Turtle
Not really...I'm still 'Turtle' and don't know why!

Diesel

88888888

Try logging out and then logging in again? You're still cookied, I guess.

[Diesel]

Heheeeee....you're right;

with apologies to 'Turtle' for using his name.

[DJP]

s'ok, you boosted his post count... ;)

Better that you're back as you, though.

[Uncle Joe]

Filched off the Independent's site (might shed some light on some aspects of Islam):

http://www.chortle.co.uk/news/oct02/mirza.html

"Muslim comic Shazia Mirza is to present a BBC1 programme about Islam.

The stand-up, who has been criticised from within her faith by those who believe Muslim women should not appear on stage, will host 10 Things You Always Wanted To Know About Islam (But Were Afraid To Ask).

She says that for many of her audience, she is the first Muslim they feel they can ask questions of.

So in the half-hour show she is addressing topics such as arranged marriages, the significance of not eating pork, and why Muslim women must cover up.



Mirza also explores the link between the English language and Islam _ for example, that arsenal is an Arabic word.

The show airs on November 6 at 11.35pm"

[Diesel]

And as momentum builds in support of the 'war' against terrorism...and anyone else that gets in the way...I want to remind all of this post...viewed against current events and declarations, statements, and actions or lack thereof it becomes apparent that it is all too true...nonislamics are 'required' to believe whatever is told them by a 'true believer' and without question/logic/interest!

[Clandestine]

As we are supposed to believe our own leaders despite the fact that they patently refuse to back up their allegations and claims with proof? :rolleyes:

[Greenhat]

You believed Slick Willy, didn't you?

[Uncle Joe]

Originally posted by Greenhat
You believed Slick Willy, didn't you? What did we believe about Slick Willy, then?

[Clandestine]

Indeed Greeny, what exactly does SLick WIlly have to do with threatenting War on the basis of unproven claims, eh?

Youll take the opposite tack on just about everything no matter how petty and follish it makes you look.

Once again, do us all a favour and spare us any more of your mindless chatter will you please!

[Uncle Joe]

Additionally...

Is Deception Wrong? Sun Tzu Art of War Strategy Site (http://www.sonshi.com/deception.html)

'The question still remains: is deception wrong? To Sun Tzu, it is the Way of warfare; it must be applied. For him, deception increases the chances of a quick victory. With it come reduced hardships and the sparing of soldiers' lives. In fact, if the general can successfully deceive the enemy, he will likely achieve the highest accomplishment in warfare -- victory without fighting.

Implied throughout the Art of War, Sun Tzu preferred using implements of psychology (such as deception and diversion) over direct attacks by military force. It's apparent which results in the least amount of loss. He knew that psychological damage can be returned to normal over time but a "destroyed nation cannot exist again, the dead cannot be brought back to life."

Therefore, one can only conclude that deception is amoral; the degree of its morality would depend on the situation, and of course, the observer's perception. Note that from the perspective of a hardened warrior and strategist like Sun Tzu, deceiving someone is simply a duty that must be done...like brushing ones teeth. You brush your teeth so you can keep them clean. This promotes a healthy body. Likewise, he uses deception so he can achieve military victory. This promotes a secure nation. In these particular instances, both acts are neither sinful nor pious, and have little to do with morality.'