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View Full Version : Does prozac prevent neurotoxic damage after taking ecstasy?



BARTONIOUS
24-06-2002, 04:49 AM
Here's an interesting slideshow that basically explains what happenes to your brain when you take ecstasy: http://www.dancesafe.org/slideshow/ I found it to be very enlightening, useful pictures too.

A theory in the slideshow is if you have been taking ecstasy, then when you come down, taking prozac prevents neurotoxity in the brain because it occupies the reuptake transporters so that dopamine cannot cause damage by getting into the serotonin axon terminal. This theory is confimed as being true in animals: prozac stops neurotoxity. This has not been tested with humans but there is no reason to the suggest that the theory would not work the same as with animals (say the scientists). What does everyone else think?

By the way, where can you buy 5-htp and prozac? How much do they cost to buy and are they expensive? I'm going to Ibiza in 2 weeks for 2 weeks of clubbing madness and want to take care of myself!

Lacy
24-06-2002, 08:59 AM
Ok there was too many clinical names in there...:p

cokephreak
24-06-2002, 03:01 PM
I wont claim expertise on this, but i think they're both perscription only.
However a lot of people (esp. young people) get perscribed prozac but refuse to take it. I'm sure if you were to find one such youth and throw some cash at them you're E taking will be free from brain damage.

I wonder if i was serious about that ?

MattBomb
24-06-2002, 07:52 PM
Prozac is only prescribed by doctors. You have to go to them and tell them u have depression and they will more than likely pescribe u it.

5-htp can be bought from most health stores (holland & barrett for example) Its 15 for 60. This is no miracle cure for a comedown. It will make u feel slightly better but u will still feel shitty. 5-htp doesnt prevent neurotoxic damage, it produces serotonin.

It has been reported that if u take prozac just after u comedown, as soon as it starts to take effect u will have no comedown, and in the process prevents neurotoxic damage to ur brain. But i believe this is only the case if u take at most 3-4 pills. Any more than this and it wont prevent some neurotoxity.

I think if u can get prozac, take it it will do u good. But dont take it BEFORE u are about to drop because it is a vigh high chance u wont feel any effects of the pill

budda
03-07-2002, 01:25 PM
The mixing of prozac and 5htp is VERY dangerous and could easily lead to seratonin syndrome.
This could lead to severe depression, mental problems and even such things as coma and death.

As for chemicals to take on the comedown to ease neurotoxic damage prozac should help in theory but its not really proven. If you do decide to try this then take it 6 hrs after your last pills AT LEAST.

As for 5htp it again in theory will help but it depends on the person, the reason it is said to work is that it helps your body replace the seratonin that you have used during the pills. Some people dont like it though because it can lead to very vivid dreams. The 5htp which can be bought from H&B also contains valarian root in it which is a sedative, this could well make you drowsy.

I'd recomend that 50mg of 5htp is taken for the five nights (before you go to sleep) after you take pills. This I find helps with the 'tuesday blues' caused by the dip in seratonin.

Hopes this helps.

slinkykid
03-07-2002, 01:32 PM
YES-prozac will help, take it as you're coming off the pills and you feel the comedown starting, also it will prevent the neurotoxicity of MDMA to a degree... NEVER take prozac before you drop-waste of money on pills cos they just wont work!!

5htp-never heard of it...

www.repharm.com does a comedown kit called Zero, it is to comedowns what alka-seltzer is to hangovers, miracule (sp?) cure!! highly recommended!:D

ebb
03-07-2002, 02:01 PM
I'm sorry but mixing prozac and ecsatsy isn't clever, the more cheimcals you begin to rely to feel better the worse you feel without them. A come down is a come down, it your body correcting you little adventure, deal with it, we all get them and stop fucking about with your brain.

Just accept that in exchange for a high of pills your going to recieve damge in return, nobody can possibly know if prozac recduces / prevents neurotoxicity, they don't even understand the neurotoxicity yet, one thing is for sure pounding your brain with various un-natural chemicals is going to do nothing but bad, do what you gotta do and then let nature take its course.

budda
03-07-2002, 02:05 PM
I aggre with your point that relying on one drug to counter the effects of another isnt a great idea. But that isnt quite what they're talking about, they want to try and reduce the damage done by the drugs they are using, which to my mind is a sound idea.

ebb
03-07-2002, 02:10 PM
Originally posted by bongbudda
I aggre with your point that relying on one drug to counter the effects of another isnt a great idea. But that isnt quite what they're talking about, they want to try and reduce the damage done by the drugs they are using, which to my mind is a sound idea.

No, they are specualting, as and when the studies are finally allowed and something is understood about ecstasy and the long term effects on your brain, then maybe people can start deciding about how to counter act such effects. I bet the final answer will be a good portion of fruit and veg before and after does the trick, it always comes back to healthy shit, its what the body uses to heal and repair, not fucking prozac.

Moderator
03-07-2002, 06:30 PM
If you have damaged neurones (that's what neurotoxic means), taking Prozac will never mend them. Prozac works by affecting levels of neurotransmitters.

It is not recommended to mix prozac with e or St John's wort, or anything else that affects serotonin.


Prozac factfile:
http://www.thesite.org/info/drugs/the_drugs/prozac.html

slinkykid
03-07-2002, 11:29 PM
neurotoxicity is the amount of damage any given substance CAN cause-therefore a more neurotoxic substance WILL damage your brain more, prozac is suspected to lower the neurotoxic damage caused to your neurones-early trials are showing this and expert are stating publicly that prozac most likely does help lower the amount of damage done. However I never recommended taking prozac to get rid of a comedown, i dont agree that one artificial drug will undo all the bad of another without any side effects. The Zero comedown kit is a natural product-unlike legal/herbal highs it works-well!!

as for medical studies on the neurotoxicity of MDMA, give me a while, i need to get my mum to get me the link for the international medical database-has every trial going on and the results.

MattBomb
04-07-2002, 09:14 PM
Fact is most things about drugs and their effects on u are just speculation and theories. The government arent going to fund a scientific experiement/research with an illegal drug, simply because its illegal, they dont have to do it.

Until they do its all just going to be speculation, theories and "it most probably does this..."

slinkykid
04-07-2002, 11:37 PM
matt-they're not just goverment funded studies, many are independant.

ebb
05-07-2002, 12:12 AM
Originally posted by slinkykid
matt-they're not just goverment funded studies, many are independant.

Sorry but they are generally bollocks, you need a massive sample of individuals to get conclusive evidence, not a hundred or so, nobody has got a fucking clue about the long term effects of pills, its all 'maybe' and 'we believe' and 'leads me to think', until the goverenment comission a nationwide study of thousands of users looking at a massive variety of variables, nothing anyone says is either final or believeable.

Some sceintist does some experiment in some lab somewhere, with any random person who has taken pills and tests the odd thing here and there. He then manipulates the results to fit what he believes, its published on the web under the term scientfic experiment / evidence blah blah blah and sudddenly we've got the definative article on the effects of ecstasy use :rolleyes:

If you wish to fill yourself full of various drugs in order to reduce the harm you do to yourself fair enough, you may prove me wrong, but don't go informing people of these wonderful ideas when they have no basis what-so-ever, it wouldn't suprise me if such experiments are funded by pharmacutical companies, ones which make prozac in particular ;)

slinkykid
05-07-2002, 01:08 PM
ebb-i agree with you on most points, however although most studies are biased, there are a few, some of which are reliable, this link will provide you with all of the literature submitted to the site, should help with any questions people are having, just search for "ecstacy" and whatever else you want to find information about, ie "neurotoxicity+ecstacy"

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi

hope this clears up any problems...? :rolleyes: :) :rolleyes:

slinkykid
05-07-2002, 01:17 PM
matt-The morphology of the synapse is also altered. THC acts on neurone conduction, stimulating polysynaptic transmission. (Neurophysiology of cannabis) im trying to find the article about serotonin and cannabis-takin a while, search the pubmed database (link above!) for the Neurophysiology of cannabis... see what you find out, i said he should smoke less dope because it does lower serotonin and can increase the risk of depression.... :) :confused: :p

ebb
05-07-2002, 02:03 PM
Right slink, I type in ecsatsy and this is the first article


A 20-year-old woman attended a 'rave party' where she took the drug 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA, 'ecstasy'). She had used this drug previously without serious adverse effects. On this occasion, while both she and her friends drank a large quantity of water, only she became seriously ill. The initial manifestation was an altered sensorium; several hours later she had a grand mal seizure. In the Emergency Department, the most striking features were the severe degree of hyponatraemia (112 mmol/l) and cerebral oedema. To explain the basis for this life-threatening clinical presentation, an imaginary consultation was sought with Professor McCance. Using both a deductive and a quantitative analysis that involved several medical subspecialties, he illustrated that a simple story of water ingestion and vasopressin release was not sufficient to explain her hyponatraemia. It was only after events in her gastrointestinal tract were analysed that a plausible hypothesis could be constructed.

:confused: So thats concludes what ? One girl, in one unique case :confused:

Next I type in 'ecstasy + neurotoxicity'

The first sentences of the first two ?




The present study examined the mechanisms by which 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA) produces long-term neurotoxicity of striatal dopamine neurones in mice




The popular dance drug ecstasy (3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine, or MDMA, and some analogues) causes selective and persistent neurotoxic damage of the central serotonergic system in laboratory animals.

mmmmmmmmmmmmmm, something tells me that we shouldn't be taking too much notice.

I haven't got enough time to read on, but I suspect they will be much of the same.

I'm not saying that these have no educational value what-so-ever, but I won't take any considerable notice until a study is done on a large group of English people, of various ages, intelligence, backgrounds, genders etc etc........ I simply don't see what real use any other study can be, what the fuck have the effects on mice got to do with anything ? Or the effects on americans, or the effects on other individuals ? I'd rather use my own experiences of how I've felt as an indicator., over evidence which as far as I can see may have no relevance to my own personal brain and system.

slinkykid
05-07-2002, 02:49 PM
ebb-it takes a bit of searchin but you do get some good research coming up, granted most of it is fairly standard bullsh*t, but some case studies show interesting results which, in my case anyway, help me to see what the little white ones are doing to me, or MAY be doing to me... :eek: