Gays in the military part Deux

[Treadhead]

Well I'm back (Lucky You! LOL), after checkin' this place out a few months back I kinda forgot about it and found it a few days ago when checkin' My unused "Favorites" 'sites.

Anyway, I noticed Your huge thread on "Homo's in the military" and wanted to post to it but (Alas), it was locked! So, not wanting to be denied (I REALLY hate denial!) I thought I'd start My own thread.

To start: I'm not gay. I'm 38 years old so, I "think" I'm a little late to start showing signs of latency (Just so you know where I'm comin' at this from).

Also, (Just for some "Bona-fides") I spent the end of My teen-age years and early 20's in the 1ST Cavalry division (Back in the new-wave days) as an armored vehicle crewman. M60A1 and M1 Abrams tanks(hence the name), loader/gunner and then TC. Today, I'm a member of the Oregon National Guard (Kind of like Your "Home guard") in a mechanized Sapper (Obstacle breaching) unit.

As well, I've got to admit I read like TWO posts in the original thread so, I'm probably going over ground already covered but, what the heck, maybe Y'all missed somethin'! LOL

Gays in the military? Sure!

Why the hell not? It's as frowned on for Me to make (Unwanted) advances toward a female in uniform as it is for a homosexual to make them towards Me. The "Big secret" of the US Army (and I'm guessin' other branches) is that We serve with gays. Some are discreet and do their jobs without calling attention to themselves and some AREN'T. I put the latter in the same catagory as the numbnuts Who seem "compelled" to hit on every female, support troop We have to do business with in the course of Our duties.

These guys can make things uncomfortable for those of Us that find Our Ladies AWAY from the units in that they present an "Asshole" who must be overcome (By the girls) to complete their assigments.

I'd look at an "over-achieving" gay about the same way. You wanna do things that I'd personally find "Nasty"? Great! Just don't involve Me or My troops and I'll promise not to talk about what "Trips My trigger" as it were. The kids may suspect but, let's not scare 'em!

I currently serve with (What I strongly suspect) are 3 gay troops. One is "fer sure". He works as a male-stripper at some of the clubs around here (Not the ones You find Ladies in!)and, in My opinion, is my best SAW (MINIMI for you Brits) gunner. The kid knows his shit! To force him out of My fire-Team would cost Me big-time. He acts as a tutor to some of the less experienced guys and is an asset to the unit.

My gunner, back in My regular Army days wasn't just Gay, He was a QUEEN! LOL! We ALL knew it! He WAS a "little" (Actually ALOT) over-the-top 'bout it but, He rocked on an M-68 (The Brit' L-7 105mm gun We used). Was I attracted to him? Uhm, NO. So, What's the problem? The guy flat KICKED ASS on the tank tables! He earned Us Two "Distinguished Crew" titles. He was "Da MAN" in my unit. the fact that He didn't like girls made very little difference to Us and, there AIN'T a whole lotta places where guys are shoved together closer than a tank!

Anyway, I just wanted to share this! LOL!

[peacechild]

I think what you have said is right, I spent 16yrs in the brit army and the gays that were discreet no one really knew about so no problem, the "queens" again no problem.

The overt ones were the ones that pissed everybody off.

peacechild

[Lord of Little]

Wow, and I thought all US military-types were gonna be like Thanatos!!

Respect to your POV Treadhead, but surely everyone in your squad doesn't share your enlightened viewpoint??

[Treadhead]

No. Unfortunatly though, they're screwin' around with My SAW gunner right now and are probably goin' to force him out.(His vocation has become an issue).

I'm just a little pissed about it.

As far as what other military types think?
I know Thanatos and diesel personally (We live in the same area). I doubt either would agree with My point of view but that's cool too. My experiences just haven't made the case (To Me at least) that these individuals need to be forced from the services.

I think the fact that they JOINED the military in a country with all-volunteer services says enough about them to Me.

I'm sure there've been negative experiences by some but, like I said, It don't get much closer than armored vehicles and I never saw a problem that affected the readiness of the crew.

[Diesel]

One of the most dangerous people I ever worked with, CC, for this discussion...was a medium height, wirey, tough young man that could and would open you up and bleed you good, without a sound in those special times of need...in his private life he thought he was a little girl...crazy as a shithouse rat probably covers it...nonetheless, tough, smart and deadly...fit a required job description...and never mind trying to talk about it with him...with us he was a man, in his private life it could cost you to poke your nose in...he's dead now...for a long time.

Diesel

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[Mindless all the way]

Ah, but there's no reason to assume that they're gonna fancy you. The way I always look at it is that if someone wants to be gay, or bi, or whatever (as some of my friends are) thats fine. As long as they don't try forcing it on anyone else.

[Balddog]

Mindless, if theres no reason to assume they will fancy you then why dont we have unisex showers/toilets etc etc? Is it because people dont feel comfortable being naked in front of the opposite sex or sexuality in this case? Maybe its a taboo but if its ok for women to shower without having men in there with them then it should be ok for men not to shower with men who fancy men.

[Mindless all the way]

I don't think that that is because there is a chance that the opposite sex might fancy you. Its because its not considered decent to show the naked body in public to the opposite sex.
Otherwise there would be campaigns to have straight male/gay male toilets.

Hmm, don't think I made myself very clear... but hopefully ya get my point.

[Balddog]

I get what ya mean.

I would argue that for all intents and purposes in this argument, gay men are a seperate sex from straight men. The local gym in my town runs seperate classes for women who dont want to exercise around men. These women feel self conscious in front of members of the opposite sex.

I always see the argument about how arrogant a man is if he feels uncomfortable being naked in front of a gay man. It seems strange that a woman who doesnt want to be naked in front of a straight man gets her way and would never be called arrogant for thinking the man might be attracted to her.

[Treadhead]

Well, I know that I like women with "Certain" features that engage My "Infantile preoccupations" (LOL) but, hopefully, I'm enough of a gentleman not to make them aware of My interest and thus cause them discomfort.

I just never worried about being fancied or coveted by these guys because I knew and they knew I wasn't gay. Hittin' on Me for them would be about as profitable as Me tryin' to get a date with Ellen Degeneres.

I guess what bothers Me so much about it is that I identify pretty strongly with military service and those who'v served as well. Right or wrong, I judge people "Higher" for having served than those Who chose not to (For a variety of legitimate reasons, political leanings, school, family ect.) Not serving is fine but, if You DID? I put You a little higher on My "Homie" scale.

Gays who, of their own free will (At least here) raise their right hand and "Do the deed" have My respect. If they dishoner themselves by letting their romantic pursuits interfere with their military ones I'd treat 'em the same as some "Horn-Dog" who found it "Impossible" to work around female troops without makin' them miserable and tense (And We've got PLENTY of those).

The kid that My unit is tryin' to screw with is a pro'. He does his job and imparts what He knows to those less skilled. If He's ever "Bothered" anyone in the unit, it's not been brought to My attention and We're a pretty tight group (My team) so, I'm fairly certain I'd get wind of it if He did.

Anyway, I can understand the feelings of those Who don't care to serve with them and I'm not going to change anything with this post but, keep in mind, there are alot of other vocations for these folks to choose from (As with most of Us). The fact that something in their person said "Join the Military" as it did in Me in a world where MOST DONT (Serve) is important to My view of them.

[Diesel]

Treadhead, do we have a show in Puyallup this next weekend? Thought I'd ask about something important here.

Time to finish out some of the FAL's we been working on so we can get back on the HK's and SUKA's!

Tennessee Guns has the PK-A scopes for $130...you might want to get a few for show and tell at the fairgrounds.

Combat does strange things to folks...the longer you are in it the more deragned you may become...gay probably doesn't cover some of the excesses that are seen...today in places like New Texas...this is why most countries try to not bring the warriors home because of what happens to a controlled society when they are released from service.

Diesel

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[Treadhead]

Beats Me on the show Diesel. I've kinda lost track of the WAC schedule the last couple of months.

I "Thought" it was next week or the week after(?) Hopefully not next week. That's the Reno 'show and I'm going to that one. 10 hour drive or not it flat rocks!

I'll find My copy of the 'show list and E-Mail Ya on the dates.

[Marmite]

As long as someone is able to do and can do the job, does it matter? black, white, woman, man, straight, gay, bi does it affect the job.

The problem is peoples perception. Grrrr narrow minded BASTARDS sorry for the language but if u cannot open your eyes i hope you're offended!

[Diesel]

Marmite, it's not about being narrow minded...some folks just choose not to kow tow to the gender challenged public display of immorality...if they want to function in and with the military 'they' must conform to the rules, not the other way around!

Diesel

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[Marmite]

Don't i know it! Being in the Police there is a similar expected way to be, to fit in. Well i get some stick at times cause i challenge it.

[Balddog]

I gotta say that Treadhead has a good point there. If a gay guy signs up for the military then that puts him above most of the straight people out there.

I have a lot more respect for a bent soldier than I have for some guy dressed in pink at a pride parade.