Teen Pregnancy

[Caliph]

What do we think? What steps should be taken to reduce it? Is there too much of it around? Is it always bad? Would you ever consider abortion?

Food for thought, last year over 1000 babies were born to girls aged 12 or younger in the UK. WE have on eof the highest teenage pregnancy rates in europe, and Holland has the highest teenage sex rate, but one of the lowest teen pregnancy rates. What are they doing there.

Anyway, someone said that the boards had died, so this should give us something to talk about.

[RachaelHolmes]

seeing as nobody has bothered yet i'll start.
i know loads of ppl who had kids when they were 14/15/16 and think they r plain stupid. i got pregnant when i was 15 and had an abortion as soon as i could, there was no way i was gonna ruin my life by having a baby at 15!
chastity belts should be compulsory from the age of 10 through to 21! j/k maybe something a little less extreme would be good though.

[trancegrrl]

Yeah its sad about all the kids having kids so to speak. I personally think abortion is ok. One thing I think should happend is more education and even easier access to birth control for the young 'cuz you're not going to stop anything so why not prevent it from happening.

[Chica]

Being in the 'at risk' group I know quite a few people who fallen pregnant. Two I know had abortions. I'm not religious at all, but I'm torn into over the abortion issue. It's wrong, especially when the foetus' pain i unknown at the moment. I disagree with it. But I also agree with it.

One girl I know, Carrie, had a very late (but legal) abortion. She had to actually give birth to the 'baby', and it survived for a few minutes afterwards. But the doctors weren't allowed to attempt to save it. Bad case scenario I know. But then, if you think about the alternative, it would have been raised by a (then) 13 year-old, no father, no grandparents (Carrie'd been abused and was in care) and seeing as she was into drugs and drink as well I can't imagine it would have had a good life. She made the right decision.

Personally, I think a lot of it is down to social perception of sex. I've been to Holland quite a lot as my cousin lives there. People talk about orgasms over dinner as casually as they do about what happened on the soaps last night. Say the word 'clitoris' in public in England (around adults) and 99% of people would turn bright red and look away. 1 in 6 parents don't tell their kids ANYTHING about sex. 1 in 3 haven't talked contraception. Terrifying.

The Government et al concentrate SO MUCH on the idea of sex as a sin (let's face it, they do) that in most schools (and peer groups) it's actually cool to suspect your pregnant. It's wrong, so therefore it's right. When the words 'teenage' and 'sex' are mentioned in the same sentence to the average 30+, the mind automatically flips to the pregnant girls. Boys aren't focused on nearly enough. It's a very small minority of boys who are pressurised into sex by girlfriends. If they are pressured, it's almost always by their mates.

If you ask me, the problem is more with parents and their generation. I mean, from the time we can talk we're fed stupid stories about storks and cabbage patches, parents'd be better off giving them a sketchy version of the truth. I know that me and most people my age I know would be OK talking to their parents about sex and contraception. It's rarely the same the other way around.

*|* Chica *|*

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Stay Calm <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/mad.gif">

[Caliph]

I agree with Chica. Part of the problem is that there's still such a stigma surrounding sex. People still feel that they can't really talk about it.

And at the moment the government's knee jerk reaction is to say "sex is bad". That's not going to change anyone's opinion. What we really need is unbiased information that lets young people make an informed decision. And there isn't much of that around.

[GIRL]

well hunny bunnys if u dont do it u cant get pregant. Ohhh i would also like say thank u to every one who helped me on my qusetion about wether i should have sex yet or wait well i would like to tell those who r intersted that iam gonna wait
<IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/eek.gif">

[poppy]

I agree with much of the above, and you mention the Government should do more (I agree) but what could they do? Any ideas?

[~*LIBERTY*~]

We're so badly educated about sex, it's no surpise that teenagers get pregnant.

Think about it, what did you learn in school about sex?
All we did was label a picture of a womb and learn a few words such as "OVA" or "SPERM".

We aren't taught the morals of sex and the dangers of teenage pregnancies and we aren't taught in the right way.

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OPEN YOUR MIND...

[ElisaKate]

Originally posted by ~*LIBERTY*~:
We're so badly educated about sex, it's no surpise that teenagers get pregnant.

Think about it, what did you learn in school about sex?
All we did was label a picture of a womb and learn a few words such as "OVA" or "SPERM".

We aren't taught the morals of sex and the dangers of teenage pregnancies and we aren't taught in the right way.



Sorry Liberty but I've got to disagree with you there. Sex education in our school was really good. I learned loads of stuff, in fact I was beginning to get sick of contraception and STD's!

[helly]

the decision of keeping the baby is personal, and people feel different 2 wether they could cope. i know if i got pregnant, as much as it would disrupt my uni course, theres no way i could have an abortion, have it adopted.
at the ages of 11-15 etc is quite redicilous. but if u think ur old enough 2 shag then u should b old enough 2 deal with the consequences.
u start ur periods so as u can reproduce, so why do we start so early? its just society thats labeled 'teenage pregnancys', and made em out to b wrong.
i known loads a teenage mums, and i have hardly a bad word 2 say, no1 is a perfect parent, no matter the age.

[SexyCinderella]

I dont want to upset anyone But...........
I think abortion is completely and utterly wrong. I am only 15 but I know if I got pregnant now, as much as it would ruin my education etc, I would keep it.
It would be my fault I got pregnant therefore my responsibility and I feel that if you cant hack the responsibility you shouldnt be having sex.
I think that these days abortion is used as an easy escape route, people aren't so careful with contreception because, if they do get pregnant, they can, correct "the problem".
I know people who wouldnt even think twice about it. I think it's awful. It's a baby for godsake.
We did the subject in Ethics @ skool and I cant remember how long it takes, but its not that late on, the baby becomes aware of all of its surroundings and whats going on. Therefore it would be aware, not of whats happening, but the pain and just being terrified.
The only time when I would consider it would be if the baby was very severly disabled, so disabled that it would have an awful quality of life.
Anyone agree with me?????

[RachaelHolmes]

What if the pregnancy was caused by rape? Is the abortion still wrong?

[This message has been edited by RachaelHolmes (edited 10-11-2000).]

[Chica]

That's an opinion, and an opinion can never be 'wrong', but personally I don't agree with that. I do believe abortion is wrong. If it could cause the baby pain, how could it not be? But in a rape situation, I can't imagine you're left with much choice?? Putting aside your own pain, imagine how the child would feel when it finds out how it was conceived. I can quite imagine it's enough to drive someone to suicide. It's the worst possible beginning of a life, and what would you do when he/she asks? Lie? Everyone has a right to know where they come from.

My cousin was actually raped when she was 15, and the thought of being pregnant by this monster (understandably) disgusted her. Fortunately she wasn't pregnant, but as that side of the family are all strict catholics, they wouldn't have let her have an abortion. How the hell was she ever supposed to get over something so traumatic if she was forced to keep a child that was the product of a brutal rape. Of course it would have been the right decision to abort it.


As for the sex education thing, in some schools it can be good and informative, but it many it's utter crap. When I was 14 (FAR too late) we had ONE day, called health education day. We spent most of the time learning about drugs and alcohol (which is important) and only 45 minutes on sex. We watched some crap video that went something like this:
"And when a man and a woman love each other, they want to show it by getting very close to each other." For fuck's sake, they could have been learning the tango! Then our teacher tried to put a condom on a carrot, but obviously had no idea what she was doing. She split about five of them and only managed to get one on by cutting off the end of it so it fit! By which time we were all in hysterics! We taught us nothing, and they even managed to do that years late. How pathetic.

*|* Chica *|*

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Stay Calm <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/mad.gif">

[marmite on toast]

How strange, we've just been discussing this in RE. I think it's a really hard issue to talk about fairly. I tsand by the fact that people should take responsibility of their actions but that loads aren't taught what proper responsibility means. I go to a Catholic school and so don't get sex ed which is so crap. Education is a big problem and i agree that there is stigmatism surrounding sex. The only time i would really think abortion was morally right is when someone had been raped, however, i would still keep it.

Good Luck, to nayone in the position at the moment, i didn't mean to offend anyone.

My teacher saw a video of a legal abortion and she said the baby actually screamed and tried to move away from the poker they were pulling it out with.

Food for thought, i hope.



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"some rarely touch it but it touches them often." Stanley, Streetcar Named Desire, Tennessee Williams

[Caliph]

Sex education in some schools is very good. I'm not denying that. But in other schools it's crap. The majority of 14 year olds have figured out what sex is (I hope). What they probably haven't figured out is the moral issues of it, contraception and the dilema of abortion.

Less of the "the man then puts his penis..." crap and more ethics style stuff that actually gets people thinking about the consequences of unprotected sex, and lets them make informed choices rather than being pressured into something where they're not completely sure of the consequences.

[poppy]

There are so many aspects surrounding sex education etc. When I had sex ed we got loads of info on the physical side, contraception and information on abortion etc. However this was just a 40+ year old teacher, standing up infront of a class 'telling' us the bare facts and giving out leaflets. Nobody talked about the emotional side at all. Until the schools/government stop treating sex as a purely phisical thing and start discussing the emotional stuff, it won't make a huge difference in reducing teenage pregnancy. When I was at school my friend had an abortion and I went with her. Although I believed (and still do) in 'choice' it was the best education I got in preventing and unwanted preganancy, because it was real. I know you couldn't do that for everyone, but it all needs to be less 'text book'.
Also, I don't understand how you can disagree with abortion because of the pain caused to the baby, but excuse it if the baby was the result of a rape? Have I misunderstood?
Just my opinion!!

[Chica]

I don't 'excuse' abortion, you all know I believe in facing up to consequences, but not at the expense of an innocent life. It's not as if the they got pregnant because of there own actions, they fell victim to a horrendous crime. And the girl should do whatever is best. And that is usually abortion. Sadly, we do not live in an ideal world, so actions like abortion are needed for the welfare of people. We shouldn't have abortions. But we should have rape or thousands of ignorant kids giving birth either. I don't think you can say you would or you wouldn't have an abortion if you were raped, or judge anyone else on it if you have been through it. The trauma is unimaginable.

~ Did you know that the average Russian woman will undergo THREE abortions in her lifetime? Apparantly, because the main religion over there only has a relatively small following, it's widely perceived as an acceptable form of birth control.

*|* Chica *|*

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Stay Calm <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/mad.gif">

[Chica]

If you HAVEN'T been through it, I mean!

[Zorro]

The reason why the sex rate is high and the birth rate is low in Holland is one word:

.................Anal.......................

[trancegrrl]

I think that the issue is choice. Although I'm not against abortion if I got pregnant I wouldn't have an abortion at this point of my life becuase I think I could handle the pregnancy, and would give it up for adoption. However, many young girls simply can't and granted then they shouldn't have been having sex. I think many young girls simply can't face their families, many would be kicked out of the house, and many families make young girls keep their unwanted children, and to grow up as an unwanted child is a recipe for disaster.
I don't think abortion should be a cure all or an easy-out, but I do think its good that women can have the power to make choices about their bodies.

[lolly]

whoa...didnt c this topic!Havr to start getting my arse in here more often!
Well I am 18 and pregnant as most of u should know by now so guess Im in the teen catagory.
I think its really bad how many girls are having abbies so young. Its like a fashion round here, not that I look at it like that, but I think a lot of girls do. Since finding out I was pregnant I know five other girl who I went to school with and was in hospital with who have since got pregnant. Also I am the seventh from my year at school and thats not including a boy who has one with his girlfriend! That to me is a joke. So many of my friens have babies or are due to have them I find it really frighteneing.
I think a lot of it is down to the lack of sex education at school. We had one class in secondary school and that was useless.
Still I dont think there is really any excuse for getting pregnant young and at the end of the day, contraception isnt exactly hard to get hold of now is it. I put it down to just not taking precautions.
With me I was stupid and didnt take any care at all. I do have to stick up for myself by saying that I have been told in the past that it would be highly unlikely I would be able to have kids and also with the amount of drugs I was taking I find it quite amazing that I fell pregnant anyway.
This isnt an excuse though and I should have been carefull, but its done now and I am absolutly over the moon at the fact Im gonna b a mum. For me its the best thing to have happened in my life, but I think that Im one of very few young mums that c it like that. This baby has been tha making of me and the only thing that was left to keep me goin in life!
Also I truly beleive u can b a good mum at any age and as long as that child has love, it will b fine.

[lolly]

Originally posted by j9j9:
Tell me that at three O'clock on the morning in February Lolly!! ROTFLOL (j/k)

J9

Tee hee...ok ok so at three in the morning things may look a little different!!U make me laugh <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/tongue.gif"> <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/tongue.gif">

[helly]

nice 2 'c' u again lolly, how u gettin on? not too long 2 go now!! i bet ur dead excited.
i think u'll make a gr8 mum,even at 3 in the morning!
love ya lots helly

[lolly]

Originally posted by helly:
nice 2 'c' u again lolly, how u gettin on? not too long 2 go now!! i bet ur dead excited.
i think u'll make a gr8 mum,even at 3 in the morning!
love ya lots helly

Hiya Helly,
Yea things seem 2 b goin ok. Am fed up with the whole pregnant thing though, just wanna b free to go get mashed without worrying about harming the bubba!!No seriously, its a real bummer carrying this thing around all day. But like u say, not too long now, and ta for the good mum part (am worrying about that one lol!).
Luv Lolly

[Chica]

Yeah, you're totally right lolly! My friend's sister and her boyf have a four month-old baby boy, and apart from being a bit short of cash, they're great parents! They're so responsible and completely committed to him, despite being just 17 and 18. She handles the baby so well, better than my mum who was 27 when she had me! Teen mums can make for great parents. I know a lot of failures, but that's due to selfishness and immaturity. Love your child and do everything you can to make him/her happy. And always be honest about how they came about, there's nothing worse than being lied to as a child. Hope the sprog-delivery does OK!

*|* Chica *|*

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Stay Calm <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/mad.gif">

[whizzygirl]

god i have gotta get in on the act here!
i am 18 and a catholic so yeah i do believe that abortion is wrong.... in a way. trouble is i can see how it is often better than keeping the baby if your just a kid or in a bad situation or whatever. so i think its a very grey area to be honest. if i got pregnant tomorrow i have no idea what i would do but i know that i certainly don't feel ready to be a mother. its a difficult one.
see ya,
angel



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i'm not denying that women are stupid; God made them to match the men.

[lolly]

Originally posted by Chica:
Yeah, you're totally right lolly! My friend's sister and her boyf have a four month-old baby boy, and apart from being a bit short of cash, they're great parents! They're so responsible and completely committed to him, despite being just 17 and 18. She handles the baby so well, better than my mum who was 27 when she had me! Teen mums can make for great parents. I know a lot of failures, but that's due to selfishness and immaturity. Love your child and do everything you can to make him/her happy. And always be honest about how they came about, there's nothing worse than being lied to as a child. Hope the sprog-delivery does OK!

*|* Chica *|*

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Stay Calm <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/mad.gif">

Cheers chica! I hope my delivery goes well too <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/frown.gif">. And I totally agree with the honesty thing, my kid will know its father is a wanker from day one ha ha ha!

[gt2masta]

OK. I'm new to this site, so none of you will know who I am-but I'm here to help. The way to stop teenage pregnancy is simple-contraception education.

It goes like this-you go to you local familly planning clinic (look in the phone book) and ask for sime condoms (simple as "Can I Have some condoms please?").if you don't know how to use it, READ THE INSTRUCTIONS CAREFULLY!!!!!You can get an absolute stack of condoms from there for NO CHARGE-you have no excuse for not having them.therefore, If you do not use them you are an idiot. They protect you from HIV and all sorts of other nasty ailments, like children. another alternative is the pill-you can get them, as well as advice from a PROPER doctor, not a school nurse; absolutely free.These do not give protection from STI's but it works as an insurance policy if a condom breaks(which shouldn't happen if you put it on properly).Use them in conjunction with condoms, because niether are 100% safe, but the chances of them both failing at the same time are half the chance of the pill not doing It's job.

Basically peeps, I'm saying if you're big enough to have sex, you're big enough to know what the risks are. I've had a couple of times where we've had to run around for a morning-after pill due to split condoms. Before that ol' thing is slipped in, always think "do I want a kid in 9 months? <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/eek.gif">".

examine the condom after sex as well.I'm not talking a microscopic analysis, just look for splits-If you spot anything, get to the family planning clinic or casualty within 2 days and get a morning after pill.Even if you have to wait 4 hours at casualty.It's far less than losing 20 years beacause you haven't looked at a johnny, which takes about 10 seconds.Splits are very large-you will see them if they are there.

Overall-get condoms
-use them
-put them on properly
-use other contraceptives if you can-ther is nothing wrong with taking the pill, it's actually good for you
-check your condoms after use

<IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/confused.gif">I hope my advice has been of some help.If you would like to know more, email gt2masta@hotmail.com and I'll be happy to help.

thanks for reading guys, hope I helped

The gt2masta <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/smile.gif">

[Chris]

On the abortion topic:

I've just gone into lower 6th form in skool & in PSE (social studies) we were shown a video of an abortion. They showed really late abortions & showed (in a lot of detail) the doctors pulling the baby out. They actually left the baby on a table & were pointing out "if you look closely you can see the baby's leg. The white liquid is the crushed brain" etc.

Most of the class turned away & some of the girls were crying. Loads of people have complained, apparently the video may have come from the chaplain at our school. (Maybe trying to turn us against abortion).

Chris

[lolly]

Originally posted by Chris:
On the abortion topic:

I've just gone into lower 6th form in skool & in PSE (social studies) we were shown a video of an abortion. They showed really late abortions & showed (in a lot of detail) the doctors pulling the baby out. They actually left the baby on a table & were pointing out "if you look closely you can see the baby's leg. The white liquid is the crushed brain" etc.

Most of the class turned away & some of the girls were crying. Loads of people have complained, apparently the video may have come from the chaplain at our school. (Maybe trying to turn us against abortion).

Chris
Jesus..that is sick! And theres no need for it either. Having an abortion is a hard enough thing to have to do anyway, u dont need to b shown things like that! Id go absolutly balistic at the school for that, infact Im interested in knowing what school it actually is so I can go mad at em and kick up a fuss!aaahhhhh am very mad now

[ElisaKate]

Chris that is AWFUL. When I was in the last year of school, they showed us a video of a woman having an abortion too but it didn't have graphic details in it like that, but it was still really upsetting and me and my friend were nearly crying. They didn't even tell us they were going to show it they should have got peoples permission, especially in the video you were shown. All I can say is Go Lolly !

[Wind]

I think the important thing to realise in what Chris said was that the video concerned late abortions. This is different to an abortion early on, yes it is all killing the early form of human life, yet more pain is felt for both foetus and woman in the later stages. The scary thing is that recent research shows that pain is felt by the foetus even in the early stages, so where do we draw the line? I agree that permission should be sought before showing such videos, but then i remember seeing an extremely distressing video on the haulocaust which we ween't warned about. People complain that we aren't taught enough about the ins and outs of having sex, so surely this should go hand in hand with the consequences of our actions. Maybe it was to turn you against abortion or maybe it was to make you think more what the effect of not being careful is. I'm not saying shock tactics are the way forward, but it is what actually ahppens so why shy away and pretend it doesn't?

[arnesh]

Cool objectiveness from Wind here! THis is what TheSite is looking for surely???

[dirty_harry]

religious people putting out shitty videos to change your mind, I think religious people should stick to their own business. If the parents religion allows abortions then they can to it, if muslims/arabs wotsits dont allow it then they cant. we are christian, well im a freedom type fuck religion bloke, and our religion allows it so bog off. If you dont like it then dont get abortions, you dont own us, stay in your religion and stop trying to convert us.

[lolly]

I dont agree or disagree with abortions but Im definatly against the vidio thing. Maybe not if it were not so graphic but I think that takes the piss a bit really. For instance a friend of mine had an abortion following a rape, this was a late abortion as she wasnt sure wether to go ahead with it or not. Can u imagine the mental torture she would have gone through if she had seen such a vidio and then had to go have an abortion herself?Jesus, she went through hell as it was let alone having to go get an abortion done (which I totally agree with after a rape, by the way). Its a hard decision goin to have an abortion, and one u want to make without having to think about the gory details, to deal with it mentally u literally have to switch off from the whole situation. If u dont do this then it makes the whjole process much harder. Im not saying that aboetions r correct in all situations, for instance is a girl is careless then really she should take responsability. And abortion isnt a form of cintraception. I just think about if my mate would have seen a vidio like that, and how much harder it would have been for her.

[lolly]

Originally posted by j9j9:
With the right counselling, she could have given the baby up for adoption, couldn't she?

J9

This is true but I tend to think, and she did too, that its worse for the child anyway. I mean who would want to know they were adopted and then find out they were conceived from a rape. Also having to go through with the pregnancy and birth and then have to give the child up for adoption is a lot harder than getting an abortion. I couldnt do it myself. I guess its personal choice though.

[Girl-From-Mars]

I agree there should be a lot better sex ed in schools. we got the whole bio thing, and in PSME (personal social moral education) which we had for a few weeks each term we got to discuss the moralities of it.and in gcse RE we discussed thigns like abortion, and looked at it from different religios points of view.i dont follow a relgion, not total atheist but thats another post!i believe that after a rape abortion should be performed if the victim wants.i mean who would want to know they were conceived by a rape, as people have said?? a friend of mine wasnt 100% on contraception, they used condoms mostly but her evil (now ex) boyf talked her into doing it sans condom, saying it would be ok coz of the time of month etc etc (bastard).and well, she would have just believed him if it wasnt for her friends, we talked her into getting the emergency pill.this happened twice, once just before a big trip abroad, total wrong timing.shes an intelligent girl, relgiious so morally objecting to abortion, but her boyf duped her into thinking it was ok for his own selfishness and the fact they couldnt be bothered to get a condom.whats spoling the mood a bit compared to a lifetime of raising a kid?? thats what it comes down to. its unrealistic to expect teengagers to abstain from sex, but i think they should be told about the risks and consequences from a much earlier age than year 10/11.

persoanlly, i couldnt cope with a baby now.im stressed enough with year 13 and a levels and friend troubles and stuff.. im on the pill, but i know its not 100%, but my boyf cant use condoms for some personal reasons (not being selfish,or just doign the normal bloke excuses), and if i did get pregnant i would have an abortion. i agree with lolly (er think it was her, the thread's gone now!) that people trying for babies who cant have them would appreciate being able to adopt these unwanted babies.. but the reality is more likely that the child will go into foster homes and be passed around before finally finding a family who want to adopt.now is that any life for a kid?and they would go their whole life being traumatised by it and not knowing hteir parents, esp if it was after a rape. i dont disagree with adoption obviously, but i just think that if a pregnancy is going to screw up someone's life, including carrying it to term, its not the answer just to give birth to all babies as there isnt exactly a shortage of children. not that abortion should be used in late stages if all that about the foetus pain is true. and it shouldnt be used as contraceptive, people should only use it if theyhave explored all other opportunities or are physically or mentally unable to have a child. theres so much more to say on this, but i'll shut up now as ive been talking forever! i hope i havent offended anyone!!

[RachaelHolmes]

Speaking from experience I had to have that abortion. My pregnancy was the result of rape and the thought of that thing growing inside me made me suicidal. I did look into carry the thing to full term and then adoption but I did some research into similar cases and decided that it was best to have an abortion. I read about 1 girl who was raped and had a baby conceived through the rape. She had the baby adopted out and years later the child (then grown up) came to find her. She had to tell the him the truth and it absolulety shattered him. I couldn't put any1 through that.
I was also advised by friends and family to have the abortion as the mental stress of the whole situation was making me crazy and as I peviously said suicidal. Giving birth to that thing would have been the worst thing I could have done.

[RachaelHolmes]

You'll have to excuse the fact that I refered to it as a 'thing', I find it v.difficult to refer to it as a baby as to me it was the spawn of a v.evil man.

[Caliph]

THe "it" thing is one of the most important aspects of abortion. It's deciding if someone is actually a person.

And a foetus a few weeks old concieved by someone who raped you should not be allowed to ruin your life.

I do realise that abortion is a very sensetive issue. THis will probably have J9 mad at me. But I think that abortion up till 14 weeks should be legal, as up till that time the foetus has absolutley no chance of survival in the world.

I think that if a sixteen year old girl has decided she couldn't cope with a baby, no-one should force her to have a child that she doesn't want,which could ruin her life.

I'm not saying that all teenagers shouldn't become mothers. I'm sure that there are many people out there who got pregnant at an early age, considered abortion and are now very glad that they went through with the pregnancy.

I do think that people should have the right to choose. As for the abortion video, I think I agree with Harry when he says that it was probably done by someone who was wildly anti-abortion who wanted to shock.

Anyone can find the ugliest possible side of a subject and film it. What they normally don't do is look at something objectively.

Most abortions take place very early on in the pregnancy. I see nothing wrong with it.

[whizzygirl]

lots of kids who are adopted end up really f***** up later on and often have behavioural difficulties or find it hard to make friends. it makes me think that adoption is not really the answer....

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i'm not denying that women are stupid; God made them to match the men.

[whizzygirl]

but then i'm not sure abortion is either. hmmmm, i dunno why i'm posting when i can't make up my mind... sorry guys!


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i'm not denying that women are stupid; God made them to match the men.

[BaRt]

I think that teen pregnency is stupid. One little mistake and your f***ed for the rest of your life! The problem is there seems to me no way of stopping it, unless we castrate (spelling?) everything that moves. One option is that the baby is taken away from its mother straight away at birth and put up for adoption. But being adopted myself that isn't a very nice way of going about things! The other option is forcing the mother and father of the baby to look after it.
Has anyone watched big brother, lets face it if you haven't you have lived in a box for the last 9 months, but anyway the baby thing on their seemed like a brilliant way of doing things. The baby gets given to a school pupil at let say the age of 13 and they have to look after it for a weekend, see how they like it. Though this is practiced in some schools, it isn't practiced in a lot, if it was part of the curiculam then they would be forced to do it!
I think my castrating program is more fun though!

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BaRt
Live Life On The Edge!

[Girl-From-Mars]

I agree with you Bart, ive heard about the looking after a doll/baby thingy for a while in some schools in inner city areas, but i think it should be practised everywhere. i have a friend who has had a couple of "accidents" and needed the morning after pill.. but i think she half intended to get pregnant as shes always saying how much she loves her young nephew and how mch she loves spending tiem with him.. and when we see babies in the nursery at school and just generally she always says she wants to take one home.. although deep down she knows she doesnt want the responsibility. but its just one silly mistake like that, girls thinking they want the "glamourous" aspect of having a baby, if you like, andd then not taking proper precautions during sex and that being it for the rest of their life. the looking after a baby like on big brother seems like a goood idea to me, to make sure these girls know what theyre doing when they say they want a baby.

[whizzygirl]

bart i'm gonna disagree with you big stylee now. you can't just take a baby away from its parents at birth because those parents happen to be teenagers. thats terrible!

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i'm not denying that women are stupid; God made them to match the men.

[BaRt]

yeh but what kind of life will it have with a teenage parent. How is the teenage mother going to do well in life? pressuming she was 14 when she had the baby how is she going to do her GCSE coursework and revision, and get decent grades at the end of the day? How about this for an idea, taking the baby away till
a the baby is 2 or 3 years old
b the teenage mother has finished her GCSE's?
In some cultures they would just kill the baby straight away! At least this is kind of fair, isn't it?

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BaRt
Live Life On The Edge!

[Chica]

No, no and no in that order. No offence Bart, but that's bullshit! My friend Carrie was taken into care as a baby for various reasons, and at the age of 3 her mother was declared fit to look after her and she was taken away from the only parents she had ever know, the two other children she felt were brother and sister. Our mums are good pals so I know the story, even though I was only five when it all happened. The mother's life and happiness is important, but she's still a mother and in comparison the baby comes first. Taking it away for years and then bringing it back again wouldn't do it any good. The child comes first.

[Broken Heart]

I don't agree with abortion!!!! It is unfair on the child. It is murder!!! If the mother cannot bring up the child then I think as a very last resort the child should be adopted.

it is difficult for me to imagine this as much as a female would but a life grows inside you and then you suddenly end that life? Imagine what the mother would feel like after. The questions she'll ask herself. I strongly disagree with abortion!!!!

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Life is like a beautiful melody, only the lyrics are messed up

[Chica]

I strongly disagree with abortion as well, of course it's unfair and cruel to the baby. But there are circumstances in which it must be allowed for the BENEFIT of the child. Desperate times call for desperate measures, etc.

[Caliph]

I'm sure that some adopted children can have wonderful lives, with parents who care for them far better than their natural ones would have been able to do so.

However a lot of adopted kids are messed up.
I've known a couple of kids who've been adopted, and they were both fucked up. I'm not saying everyone who's been adopted is messed up, but its more likely.

I don't think adoption is the answer. In anycase, there aren't enough parents who are willing to adopt, when compared with the number of people who have abortions every year.

The alternative to legal adoption, shunting the child round sets of foster parents, is far far worse. How can someone develope normally if they spent no longer than a few years with each set of parents?

Some teenagers make great parents. But most can't cope with someone completely dependant on them, when they are just children themselves. Most fourteen year olds couldn't cope with looking after a completely helpless person throughout their GCSEs and A levels.

Better sex education is needed, and contraception needs to be made more freely availible.

[Caliph]

Here's a question to all teenage girls out there. If, for whatever reason you found out that you were pregnat, would you have an abortion?

[cat]

I am 18 and I have a son who is nearly a year old,as soon as i found out I was pregnant my boyfriend made me choose carry on drinking ,smoking partying and doing drugs or have his child, it was a hard decision but i chose my little boy and it was the best decision i have ever made in my life. Everyone says what a good parent i am and i have known parents twice my age who cant cope. I think its not age but the support and courage you have which determins whether you are fit to be a parent!

[SexyCinderella]

I've had a few pregnancy scares but even though I know it would be SO SO hard I couldnt do that and Kill my child.
I'd keep it.

[Chica]

Cinders, that's a bit insensitive after what Rachel just said, isn't it? You're opinion I know, but that could be hurtful.

Well Caliph, I'm 16 and having sex (not at this moment, you understand!) so I s'pose I'm right in the 'danger zone'. I had a pregnancy scare once a while ago, and I was bloody terrified. I was with my ex Satan then and he'd persuaded me to down a few vodkas and then have sex without any protection. What can I say, I was weak. I should have told him to bugger off then. My period was late and I can't describe the fear of thinking you may be pregnant...it's awful. Luckily I wasn't, but I easily could have been. If I was, I'm almost 100% sure I would have had an abortion.

I'm still at school for one thing, and for another I was a lot less mature then, it's surprising how much you can grow up after something like that! He would have been useless, and anyway, I loved him - it was just some stupid little infatuation. I don't even remember liking that much. Fuck know why I was sleeping with him. I was in no way ready to be a mother and I would have had it terminated as soon as possible, I'm sure.

Now, it would be different. The last thing I would want to do is bring an innocent child into my mess of a life, but it would be better off now. It would have a father. I hope that I'll be with my boyfriend for a long time, but even if we broke up tomorrow it's not as if he would abandon his baby. Despite the fact he's not a bastard, he wouldn't really have much choice unless he wanted to be disowned by the whole family. I really, really wouldn't want to be pregnant as I have so much to learn yet, but I don't think I would have an abortion. If it could have a stable home and a loving family, which it would, it goes against everything I rant about if I had an abortion. So long as I can get my GCSEs and everything, he/she would hopefully have a good life despite the fact they weren't planned.

[Chica]

AAAHHH AAHHHH! I mean I NEVER loved Satan! Jesus Christ, I need some sleep....

[Girl-From-Mars]

if i got pregnant now (im just 18) i would have an abortion. im in a sexual relationship, a long term one (god how long term......).., and on the pill. but ive got enough probs of my own, i couldnt handle a baby at my age and would probably lose my mind if i had it. im so stressed from a levels and friend hassles and stuff, it would totally finish me off! so yes id have an abortion, but not a late one as ive read posts on here saying the foetus suffers and i deifnitely wouldnt want that. but in my situation, i think it would be best for both me and the child not to have the baby. of course not getting pregnant in the first place helps!! so see my above rants about sex education and contraception and stuff!!

[JB]

Originally posted by helly:
...
at the ages of 11-15 etc is quite redicilous. but if u think ur old enough 2 shag then u should b old enough 2 deal with the consequences.
u start ur periods so as u can reproduce, so why do we start so early? its just society thats labeled 'teenage pregnancys', and made em out to b wrong.
...


Sorry ppl, this is a little off topic but kind of relevant. I don't know if you knew but the ages at which women first have periods, at which the first sexual characteristics (etc.) appear have all dropped (dramatically, by several years) in the last 100 years and are still dropping. People believe this is due to:
1. Better health and nutrition, so your bodies can develop faster.
2. Increased levels of hormones such as oestrogen in food and water (this is also believed to increase male infertility).

The net result of this is that women are having to cope with being sexual beings at younger ages than ever before, at more immature stages of their lives. As far as nature is concerned, the only important thing is to get as many babies out there as possible.

It has no innate concept of emotional maturity. While more emotionally mature parents will always have functioned better in the past (leading theoretically to sexuality at an emotionally mature age), nature has produced humans who mature at the 'correct' rate in a more hostile environment than the current one.

Hence, I believe it is possible that women actually do have sexual capabilities and drives that they are not really mature enough to handle. So if you're old enough to shag, are you old to handle the consequences? I don't think so. You know, if women keep maturing quicker and quicker, I think the trend would indicate that at some point in the next hundred years, the 'average' women would be capable of having a baby at more like 11 years old than 13 (whatever it is at the moment). HOW THE HELL CAN PEOPLE AT 11 BE RESPONSIBLE. Hey?

I think the only way to start tackling the issue ATM is much younger sex ed. (and better support systems for women in general).

[TaraReader]

I live in the United Arab Emirates and out here from birth the girls know who they are going to marry. A girls' life 'plan' is to go to school, leave after their GCSE, get married and have children as quickly as posible. I go to an all girls school and I know that most of my arab friends will be doing this - most of them will be mothers at the age of sixteen. I blame this on our sex education. The mothers complaned about their girls knowing about sex before year nine. Last year we labeled diagrams of the male and female reproductive systems and then learnt the basic route of the sperm into the vagina and how the baby grows. We learnt nothing about protection, disease etc. Sex education should start from a younger age and then slowly build up so that when children reach the age of fifteen they know everything there is to know about sex and what dangers it can bring.

[JB]

TaraReader, you sound very mature and sensible for someone in your situation and I agree with you. You sound like you don't like all this, are you also in that difficult situation?

Something else you didn't mention is the emotional complications that sex brings - these are as important as disease in my opinion.

[SexyCinderella]

Sorry Chica and Rachael if i upset you. I hadnt read your post before posting mine.I guess the two situations were v different. Whenever ive hada scre its been with sum 1 i really care about and trusted, not a monster as what you experienced. Im Sorry.
Infact my ex bloke's pickin me up this mornin and we're off down the FPC cos i keep faintin and my periods l8. I really reallly hope im not. Ill keep u updated.

[Reich]

Hey I'm sorry to everyone out there that doesn't like what I have to say but I can't just let it go. I think abortion is totally wrong!!! I know in some cases it can't be help like if a parent is making you, or if you have a med. reason. But if it is just because you don't want to mess up your life you should have thought about that before you had sex!!! Why would anyone want to take a life before it is even given???? Don't you have any morals??? There are different ways to go about it rather then an abortion, you could give the baby up for adoption anything besides kill it!!!! I know alot of people in the world would love to just beat the heck out of me because I am "wrong" but hey this is what I believe in my heart. If i were to get pregnant in my teen years (i'm 14 now) there is no way I would be able to have an abortion and you can mark my word for that. I am pro-life!
Sorry to those who I may have upset.
Lots of love,
N.Reich

[Girl-From-Mars]

no one's going to judge you for your opinion Reich, whether they agree or not, they might have something to say in response! but no one will try to beat you over it. at least no one here will. unless its a subject thats close to their heart for one reason or another, in which case they may become heated. but you're perfectly entitled to your opinion and people will respect it.

i happen to disagree with you myself <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/smile.gif"> but i can see both sides of the coin. i just believe it should be an option.

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It's better to regret things you've done than things you haven't.

[Reich]

okay i've done some more thinking....see the whole thing started with my LA class in school, i picked Why abortion is bad for a topic to write about. And when i came on the net to research it alls i found was the bad stuff. I mean like did everyone out there know that after the 3-4 week of conception the heart beat of the baby can be felt??? And then by the 8th week a baby has it's own finger prints and can feel pain??? I never knew that stuff and with learning all of that and more it just maybe me dislike abortions even more because to me if feels like you are killing an alive but not born child. I just....i don't know how to put it into words. But if i would be pregnant and be going through that kind of stuff i might feel different. I just dont think i would be able to live with myself if i would have an abortion......but then again i haven't been put into that position. It's hard to give real feelings towards something like Abortion when it hasn't be a problem for you!!!!! well nite nite........
~N.Reich

[Burnout_Girl]

I think we should stop for a second and figure out the facts about abortion before we judge. There has been some really scary misinformation given out here.

My big concern is the belief that a fetus feels pain. Anti-abortion activists have always used this argument to make their case, but it simply isn't true. A fetus is incapable of feeling pain until very late in the pregnancy: week 28. The central nervous system, which is required to relay pain messages to the brain has not devloped enough until then. I checked the statistics for Britain, and over 92% of abortions are performed by the end of the first trimester and,99.95% of abortions are performed by week 24. Late abortions are extremely rare, and in every country I know of, only performed if the mother's life is at immediate risk. By the way, the fetus doesn't feel pain during this type of abortion either. The mother is given a local or general anesthesia, both of which travel through the plancenta and anesthetize the fetus as well.

Just thought that the facts should be made clear so people can make informed decisions.

I am happy to respect anyone's opinion, even if it has been formed without all the facts. The only thing I can't respect are pro-life people who think that they have the right to make that decision to have an abortion for me. It's my body, my decision, end of story.

[lolly]

Originally posted by Burnout_Girl:
I think we should stop for a second and figure out the facts about abortion before we judge. There has been some really scary misinformation given out here.

My big concern is the belief that a fetus feels pain. Anti-abortion activists have always used this argument to make their case, but it simply isn't true. A fetus is incapable of feeling pain until very late in the pregnancy: week 28. The central nervous system, which is required to relay pain messages to the brain has not devloped enough until then. I checked the statistics for Britain, and over 92% of abortions are performed by the end of the first trimester and,99.95% of abortions are performed by week 24. Late abortions are extremely rare, and in every country I know of, only performed if the mother's life is at immediate risk. By the way, the fetus doesn't feel pain during this type of abortion either. The mother is given a local or general anesthesia, both of which travel through the plancenta and anesthetize the fetus as well.

Just thought that the facts should be made clear so people can make informed decisions.

I am happy to respect anyone's opinion, even if it has been formed without all the facts. The only thing I can't respect are pro-life people who think that they have the right to make that decision to have an abortion for me. It's my body, my decision, end of story.

Well said burnout girl!

[Reich]

All that was very well put and I did stop to think....i dont know which to believe, i have found in a few differnt places on the net and in books that the baby can feel pain...but then when you said about how the mother is like put out that is a good point that the baby won't feel pain. But i still don't think it is right. and i am not trying to tell you how to run your body or anything like that just like i wouldn't expect you to tell me. I just believe there are many ways you could go about having a baby rather then getting an abortion. Abortions are just becoming so common these days....i mean in a few years what is going to happen??? I just can't sit back and not say anything. But hey if abortion is the way you want to go then there is nothing i can do about it and i am not goin to sit here and yell at you...i'll just voice my thoughts about how i don't think it's right...
but i guess some people can't really help if they have to get an abortion if their parents are making them or their man walks out on them and that is really sad to hear. I just have so many mixed feelings about this whole issue and when i type it it more then likely doesn't sound right at all but at least i can say i tried!!!
well have a happy new year everyone.
N.Reich

[BabyLisa]

Wouldn't it be a better idea to educate people more and give them routes, rather than straight to the abortion clinic like u,
I think that people should keep up their responsibilities than just get rid of them the easiest way.
One of my best m8's had a baby when she was 15 and she makes a better mother than any other I've seen and she still got one of the best grades at Gcse
<IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/rolleyes.gif">

[IcKleMoNSteR]

i think im slightly offended by j9's view, but im also glad that she expressed it.
i was pregnant, through rape. and as much as i wanted to give the child a right to life, i couldnt go through with the pregnancy.
the guy who would be the "father" found out i was going down this path. and lets just say i didnt have an abortion but i didnt have a baby.
a catholic friend in school tells me that what he did is a punishment for what i considered doing and was going to carry through. i dont know what to think.
there are so many different teen pregnancy situations, u cant possibly have one right answer for them all. at the end of the day, it's a personal decision, and people shouldnt be so hard on those that opt that way.
its easy to say that youre against abortion, and that its wrong, when you havent faced the fear of the situation.
if you can go through with it, well done i say. and lisa, your friend is amazing.

[IcKleMoNSteR]

hey j9, i so didnt see it that way. it was just my way of saying i disagree, u no?

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dont frown-u never know who's falling in love with your smile!

[IcKleMoNSteR]

i didnt think you were doing it to be deliberately wotever, it was just my way of saying i disagreed. im glad that u get ur views across, and that everyone on here has a different one.
<IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/smile.gif"> friends?

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dont frown-u never know who's falling in love with your smile!

[mrsrb921]

Re: the post above from Rachel Holmes, yet another spoiled, selfish person interested only in self-gratification, i am not surprised. all i ever hear is how traumatic a rape pregnancy is on the rape victim, how 'bout the children?? Abortion is murder, no matter how that fetus got inside of you--and still part of you! What you did was best 4u, but what about the baby -- did you ever stop to think about him/her&gt;&gt;apparently not. i myself happen to have been born of rape, and i hate the way we "rape babies" are treated as disposable. what complete and utter bull. Most of the time, the woman wasn't truly raped anyway...she just needs a good excuse to get out of being pregnant...which more people would believe if they actually look at the statistics of rape pregancies. Oy vey!

[Turtle]

Originally posted by mrsrb921:
Re: the post above from Rachel Holmes, yet another spoiled, selfish person interested only in self-gratification, i am not surprised. all i ever hear is how traumatic a rape pregnancy is on the rape victim, how 'bout the children?? Abortion is murder, no matter how that fetus got inside of you--and still part of you! What you did was best 4u, but what about the baby -- did you ever stop to think about him/her&gt;&gt;apparently not. i myself happen to have been born of rape, and i hate the way we "rape babies" are treated as disposable. what complete and utter bull. Most of the time, the woman wasn't truly raped anyway...she just needs a good excuse to get out of being pregnant...which more people would believe if they actually look at the statistics of rape pregancies. Oy vey!



Ok, this is going one step further on the abortion issue. I have never really stated my views, mainly because I don't like the argument.

Personally, I think the idea of abortion is fair enough: I'm male myself, so maybe that affects the view. I'm also a teen - i've never had children of my own, which probably affects my views as well.



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I've not lost my mind it's inserted elsewhere - hence the limp.

[dirty_harry]

Originally posted by mrsrb921:
Re: the post above from Rachel Holmes, yet another spoiled, selfish person interested only in self-gratification



what post?

[Girl-From-Mars]

im sorry ive forgotten your name, mrsb something? anyway you know who you are...

how can you say that RachaelHolmes is selfish and spoilt and only interested in self gratification?? did we actually read the same post? she stated clearly she considered adoption, and after hearing of someone who WAS conceived from rape and then adopted, finding out, decided this wasnt something she wanted to wish upon her baby. and that she felt suicidal, this isnt a "spoilt and selfish" mind at work. she was willing to kill herself to prevent the spawn of this rapist from living.

people who are raped go through enough, they dont need the reminder every single day of their ordeal by looking after their child. and loving something that was brought into the world by such a horrific act.

your mum must have been very strong to carry you to term and then care for you, as yu were conceived of rape. but i know i couldnt do it. and people are entitled to their own opinions about this, abortion is legal, and surely it is a better alternative than the victim having to commit suicide??

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If you don't know where you're going, you'll probably end up somewhere else.

[mrsrb921]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Girl-From-Mars:
[B]im sorry ive forgotten your name, mrsb something? anyway you know who you are...

Yes, my name is mrsrb921, thank you!

&gt;&gt;how can you say that RachaelHolmes is selfish and spoilt and only interested in self gratification??

because I read her post

&gt;&gt;did we actually read the same post? she stated clearly she considered adoption, and after hearing of someone who WAS conceived from rape and then adopted, finding out, decided this wasnt something she wanted to wish upon her baby.

Ohh...she "heard about" someone who was born of rape and adopted...so that gives her the right to "play God" with the life growing inside of HER?? Besides, that sad testimony from the person born of rape...did anyone ask that person if s/he would have preferred not to be BORN??...It takes hard work to come to terms with yourself when you find this out about yourself, but to "spare" us by not letting us live??...puh-leez...

&gt;&gt; and that she felt suicidal, this isnt a "spoilt and selfish" mind at work. she was willing to kill herself to prevent the spawn of this rapist from living.

That "spawn of a rapist" is also her spawn, don't forget!!

&gt;&gt;people who are raped go through enough, they dont need the reminder every single day of their ordeal by looking after their child. and loving something that was brought into the world by such a horrific act.

And children born of rape certainly don't need regular reminders of how "traumatic" of a reminder they are...ever heard of "adoption"?

&gt;&gt;your mum must have been very strong to carry you to term and then care for you, as yu were conceived of rape. but i know i couldnt do it. and people are entitled to their own opinions about this, abortion is legal, and surely it is a better alternative than the victim having to commit suicide??

--Yes, abortion is legal, but so is adoption. There are no easy answers in this kind of situation, but at least in adveryone walks away relatively happy...and alive.

--mrsrb921

[This message has been edited by mrsrb921 (edited 19-01-2001).]

[Butterfly]

Hey everyone! I don't think teen pregnency is such a bad thing. My friend is 16 and 2months pregnet, I think its wonderful. Pregnency is something wonderful we shoulden't kill it with abortion and make it out like it ruins your life. It doesen't ruin your life its a blessing. It may be hard to go to school at the same time but you can take homeschooling,alternative school were you only go 3 hours, also you can quiet and get a GED by taking a test and go to college with it all you have to be is 17 to take a GED test. Its not bad, if it was then why would god give it to us.


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Ash

[Butterfly]

Hey everyone! I think it is wrong to say that teenage pregnency is wrong cause its not totally wrong it doesen't realy ruin your life. How can something that is part of you ruin your life by brining a life into the world. My friend is 16 and pregnet and she is keeping it. I am trying to help her out and no it doesen't ruin your life cause they have this insurance called medacade that pays for all the stuff she needs for it. Consider it a blessing to have a child.


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Ash

[opera bitch]

*read this topic the first time round*

*is getting heartily sick of all the abortion/pregnancy topic around at the moment*

<IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/frown.gif">

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<IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/tdo13.gif">

sometimes you've just got to keep going....

[Kermit]

dude. post. dead

People, look at the date! This post hasnt been opened since January, its well and truly dead! <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/rolleyes.gif">

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It matters not who won or lost, but how you place the blame.

[angel_clarabell]

But if it is just because you don't want to mess up your life you should have thought about that before you had sex!!!

I would just like to point out the fact that unwanted pregnancy is unwanted because it was a mistake. Not everyone who falls pregnant is stupid and irresponsible. Sometimes things happen no matter how good your intentions are. Life may not give you a choice. People have sex before they are ready to have a child, this is not their intention. Plenty of people get away with not using contraception, and plenty of people are responsible but something basically beyond their control goes wrong. I just think that we need to stop judging others so harshly. You do not have to agree, but if you have never been in the same shoes you have absolutely no right to criticise someone else's decision.

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This above all, to thine own self be true.

[opera bitch]

will you all just leave this fucking topic alone!!! <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/mad.gif">

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<IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/tdo13.gif">

sometimes you've just got to keep going....