How much affection in a relationship?

[alasia]

Hiya...I was wondering what the 'normal' level of affection is in a relationship. I realise everyone is different and there's not really such a thing as 'normal', but for the purposes of this post, please try and humour me! lol.

I'm used to quite a lot of affection in relationships - my last bf was too touchy-feely (IMO) - always hugging me, holding my hand etc., so I'm kind of used to that now.

Now I'm with my current boyfriend, I get barely any affectionate behaviour from him - we've only been together for 8 weeks but I've spent almost every day/night at his place (I'm practically moved in), so I guess it feels more like we've been together for a couple of years. I'm naturally quite tactile, but I'm trying to hold it back because he's said he's not like that - but there's a limit!
He won't sleep upstairs with me because he says he prefers to sleep on the sofa (which I hate - I don't see the point in me staying over if I have to either sleep in the bed alone or squish up on the sofa with him every night!), he won't really cuddle me during the day, apart from occasionally holding my hand if we're out walking round town, or come and kiss/press up against me if we're in the house (but that's more of a lust/sex thing, not really affection!), and he'll put his arm round my waist for a few seconds or squeeze my thigh once in a while if we're out somewhere.

Is this normal, or am I being (as he says) 'too clingy'?

[SuzyCreamcheese]

it sounds like hes got issues tbh.

[Franki]

it sounds like hes got issues tbh.
Aye. What she said.

I'd understand most of it, but who the hell would rather sleep on the sofa than in the bed? Lord.

[StrubbleS]

phhhrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr....

my mummy said if i don't have anything productive to say I better say nowt at all.


I don't want to be destructive, but every week you got a new issue with your boyfriend. I know you love him etc... I think you should really re-consider your relationship. Nothing wrong with an older partner, but you see where this is leading. He is in settle down, sex at birthday and christmas age, you are - still - in an exploring age.

you are tripping head over heels into something...

[Phoenix_]

it sounds like hes got issues tbh.

2nd that.

If you want touchy feely come to surrey!! :naughty:

[red_jelly]

2nd that.

If you want touchy feely come to surrey!! :naughty:

lol, well I agree that if you want touchy feely then there are plenty of guys out there who want the same *puts hand up* and if this is a major loss for you then you need to think about whether this guy is right for you.

It does seem like you're in two different places at the moment and want different things from the relationship.

[alasia]

I know...at the moment there's a bigger issue but I won't go into it (it's in another thread I posted a couple of weeks ago).

Oh and about sleeping on the sofa - apparently he's always done it. In his last relationship he slept on the sofa all the time. I asked how they ever had sex and he said he'd go up to her or she'd come down to him, then they'd cuddle for a bit and go back to their respective rooms. OMG!

[SuzyCreamcheese]

Is that what you want for yourself Alasia?

[lipsy]

:crazyeyes


what are you doing? is this what you really want from a relationship? i presume the other issue never got sorted then.

[lucifer devil]

try spending less time at his house. might show him what he's missing while you're not there and make him a bit more affectionate when you do see him.

as for the sleeping on the sofa..weirdo! :chin:

[alasia]

I'm not seeing him for a few days, I told him I need time to think.

Lipsy - nope, it got sorted for a bit when he decided he was going to do as I asked and not contact her, ignore most of her calls and turn her down when she asked for a lift - and we got on great. But this morning I found texts saying "I luv u2 and miss u when you're not here, believe it or not" and "really soon I hope, like u say the balls in my court. I hate what I'm doing". I confronted him and he said it didnt mean anything, then I texted her on impulse and asked what was going on, and she said the same as him - that they're good friends. She has very strong feelings for him but they havent slept together. And the "I hate what I'm doing" was apparently about me and the way we keep arguing.

So... *shrugs*

[Ballerina]

I'm not seeing him for a few days, I told him I need time to think.

Lipsy - nope, it got sorted for a bit when he decided he was going to do as I asked and not contact her, ignore most of her calls and turn her down when she asked for a lift - and we got on great. But this morning I found texts saying "I luv u2 and miss u when you're not here, believe it or not" and "really soon I hope, like u say the balls in my court. I hate what I'm doing". I confronted him and he said it didnt mean anything, then I texted her on impulse and asked what was going on, and she said the same as him - that they're good friends. She has very strong feelings for him but they havent slept together. And the "I hate what I'm doing" was apparently about me and the way we keep arguing.

So... *shrugs*

no offence, but from all you're other threads, it sounds like you're being used big time. It seems all you are is a pretty young thing for him to have sex with when he feels like it, and has an older woman for the support.

Seriously, this guy is selfish. Get rid.

[lipsy]

i want to shake you!! what do you think those txts mean? do actually believe them when they say they are friends?

what advice would you give to a friend if she told you all of this?

he loves her, he misses her and he wants to see her. that is obvious from those texts. you are being played for a fool. but i dont think you'll realise this until you get really hurt :(

[alasia]

Oh I know, don't worry. He said that he said "love" because he actually meant "love being with" in a friend way, but was too lazy to type it out fully :rolleyes:
Even the fact she backed him up (when there's no way he could have told her to say it, as he didnt think I'd actually text her) didn't convince me he's telling the truth. I texted him about an hour ago saying I can't be with him - unless he makes real changes and gets rid of wendy.

[Ballerina]

Oh I know, don't worry. He said that he said "love" because he actually meant "love being with" in a friend way, but was too lazy to type it out fully :rolleyes:
Even the fact she backed him up (when there's no way he could have told her to say it, as he didnt think I'd actually text her) didn't convince me he's telling the truth. I texted him about an hour ago saying I can't be with him - unless he makes real changes and gets rid of wendy.
she's not the one who needs to go, its him

[alasia]

Maybe. He just texted me and said sorry I cause so much shit. I didn't reply.

[lipsy]

i feel sorry for you alasia. i hope you realise soon that you are worth more than this, more than him and the way he is treating you.

[alasia]

You know, it wouldn't be as bad if he admitted that he just can't choose between us - I asked him earlier if it's that he fancies me but doesnt feel *that* strongly for me, and he doesn't find her sexually attractive but has strong feelings for her.

He was adamant that he just cares about her as a friend and couldn't imagine doing anything with her, whereas he does have "very strong feelings, more than you know" for me.

But I'm sure it's all bull.

[StrubbleS]

I'm not seeing him for a few days, I told him I need time to think.

Lipsy - nope, it got sorted for a bit when he decided he was going to do as I asked and not contact her, ignore most of her calls and turn her down when she asked for a lift - and we got on great. But this morning I found texts saying "I luv u2 and miss u when you're not here, believe it or not" and "really soon I hope, like u say the balls in my court. I hate what I'm doing". I confronted him and he said it didnt mean anything, then I texted her on impulse and asked what was going on, and she said the same as him - that they're good friends. She has very strong feelings for him but they havent slept together. And the "I hate what I'm doing" was apparently about me and the way we keep arguing.

So... *shrugs*

WHAT THE CRAP ARE YOU DOING?

You are reading his texts, they are super suspicious and YOU CONFRONT HIM ABOUT IT! fuck... if a girl is reading my texts, she better be prepared. So you can imagine how he thinks of you. You distrust him, harm his private sphere, move into his house after a few days, overtake his life. he is overwhelmed. how do you think this will work out? everything settles and you be a happy couple?

You can't honestly believe he loves you, with all that. I mean, I don't believe in the "abusing" you story, because he might be out of that age, sounds like he is just too much of a sissy to tell you, that you're dumped.

Do you actually know what you are telling us? Do you understand the absolute twistedness about this ordeal? Sorry to be so negative, but.... there isn't just any positivity at all in this shit-typhoon.

break up. now!

[alasia]

So it's my fault?! Huh.

[Ballerina]

WHAT THE CRAP ARE YOU DOING?

You are reading his texts, they are super suspicious and YOU CONFRONT HIM ABOUT IT! fuck... if a girl is reading my texts, she better be prepared. So you can imagine how he thinks of you. You distrust him, harm his private sphere, move into his house after a few days, overtake his life. he is overwhelmed. how do you think this will work out? everything settles and you be a happy couple?

of course she bulldozed her way into his house and took over, it's all her fault :rolleyes:

[alasia]

HE moved ME in. HE'S the one saying he has feelings for me but doesn't know how to show them. HE'S the one who wanted me to get a job in his town and HE'S the one asking me to come back to his on monday instead of tuesday.
And it's MY fault?!

Explain please.

[Ballerina]

HE moved ME in. HE'S the one saying he has feelings for me but doesn't know how to show them. HE'S the one who wanted me to get a job in his town and HE'S the one asking me to come back to his on monday instead of tuesday.
And it's MY fault?!

Explain please.
his fault for being a selfish controlling twat

but your fault for staying with him, you've make threads every 2 weeks and you've only been together 2 months - seriously, step back and take a look.

[Sofie]

You two should split up before something else happens.

[alasia]

I know. Tbh I'm assuming it's over - I actually texted him earlier and said pretty much what StrubbleS did - that he wants to split but is too gutless to do it. He replied saying "you're not giving me a chance to think. But stop being so negative".

He had the perfect opportunity to just say yes, you're right. Let's end it. But he didn't, which pisses me off. I know I should finish it and I have no idea why I don't. Probably because I know that will be it - even if he realised he did love me and cuts the other woman out of his life, he wouldn't admit it cos he's stubborn like that. I'll just see how we both feel in a few days.

[Ballerina]

you're completely mismatched, best to get away now :yes:

[alasia]

Not completely mismatched because we do get on when a certain someone isn't on the scene, but I see your point - I really do.

I know I'm coming across as a sap who's unable to function on her own, so she stays in a crappy relationship thats making her miserable, but it's not like that at all.

I'll turn my phone off, give it a few days and then see how I feel. If it's the same as now, it's over.

[alasia]

Ok so I didn't switch my phone off. He texted asking me to ring him this morning, so I did. I mentioned the fact he texted me a few days ago saying I was the only one for him and that he loves me, no one else (he interrupted, saying "but I do love you!"), then sent Wendy a message a couple of days later, saying "I love u2 and miss you when ure not here, believe or not". He said his usual "yes, well I do love being with Wendy". To him, 'love being with' is something you say to a friend, and 'love' is what he says to me. I said I could see what he was saying but he put love in his text to Wendy, not love being with. He said that he only put it to save writing too much *shrugs*

Then he said Wendy hasn't been in touch and he's not interested - he doesn't care whether she gets back in touch or not. I told him that he's said that before, then changed his mind a couple of hours later and he said "yeah, then she gets in touch". Didn't really understand that :eek2:

To be fair to him, it's always Wendy that gets in touch with him first, not the other way around. So maybe it's that he wouldn't be too fussed if she didn't contact him again, but when she does he's not going to ignore her, because she's a friend?

I don't know...I'm so confused, I really do love him so my instinct is to believe him and give things another go (with a few rules and boundaries in place!), but I know everyone else would tell me to grow a spine and get rid.

If anyone can give a bit more advice it'd be appreciated!

[lucifer devil]

lots of people have already given you good, honest advice alasia but you're refusing to believe that he could be anything other than genuine.

get rid of him, you deserve better and that is not how a good relationship should be.

[Littleali]

u sound like a complete door mat

i bet they both laugh about u behind your back

get out of the relationship

[lipsy]

this is gonna go one of two ways. either you'll realise that this isn't the kind of relationship you want or deserve (the wendy issue, his insecurities and jealousy, him getting drunk and starting arguments, his lack of affection and sleeping on the sofa). or you're just gona let this drag on and on -things will get resolved then those same things will keep rearing their ugly head. when its finally over and you've moved on you're gona look back at this relationship and him and wonder what the fuck you was doing.

[alasia]

But thats the thing, it has changed a bit - he does show more affection, he doesn't start arguments when he's been drinking now (he does the opposite, getting all "I love you" on me :rolleyes:) and he's done some things to help the wendy situation, by not contacting her unless she contacts him first, and not running around after her.

Trust me I'm not a doormat, but if you're not in the situation it's easy to assume that it's all bad, all the time - it's not. Most of the time we get on really well, have fun and everything like that. It's just once or twice a week we argue.

That's what's confusing me.

[lipsy]

well then, what advice do you need? if hes changing like you said he has you must be happy right? or not?

[alasia]

Yeah I am. I have noticed a change, but everyone's advice on here is at the back of my mind. He made an effort not to contact Wendy or reply to her texts/pick up on her phonecalls last week when I asked him, and it's the best we've got on in ages. I wasn't in her shadow, didn't think about her - and I didn't mention her at all.

He used to ask me to keep quiet when she was on the phone but last week, he called me over when he was talking to her, so she heard him call my name. Then he saw her in town and pointed her out to me (before then it always seemed like he didn't want me to see or meet her). Then a couple of days ago, she got on the bus he was driving. I was sitting on the seat behind the driver's seat and she asked if I was the girlfriend - and Phil said that I was. It doesn't seem like much but it made a difference because before, it always seemed like Wendy was some big secret. I wasn't allowed to meet her or see her, and Wendy made it clear to Phil that she doesn't like my name being mentioned, so he didn't do it. If he did, she'd hang up the phone on him or not contact him for a few days :rolleyes:

So yeah there are changes, and I am happy...but then I found those texts, and that's what's confused me.
They're the only 2 texts he hasn't shown me - he usually shows me every message he sends and receives (including flirty ones she's sent him) then deletes them. So why leave 2 very incriminating ones on his phone? Unless he's trying to give me a hint and hoping I'll leave him.
When I said that to him yesterday though, he told me not to be so negative and said he'd see me monday.

The thing is, he's told me before that he finds it really hard to show his feelings - so if I say I want to finish it, he'll always say "well do it then, if it's what you want". If I ask him if it's what he wants me to do, he'll say of course not and that he loves me.
He does occasionally have a heart to heart with me and let me in on the way his mind works; like he said the other day that when he gets close to someone, he'll start pushing them away and trying to put them off him, but he doesn't know why. They'll stay with him for so long then they "always" end up getting sick of it and leaving him. Then he regrets it, but he can't tell them because he's too stubborn.

[Replicant]

relationships are all about the snuggles tbh :p

[sophia]

.

[alasia]

I know, you're right. It's just the fact that there have been changes recently.

[Deep Fathom]

Les extrêmes, c'est touches. :p

You simply deserve a better guy. Stop wasting your time with him.

[Captain]

Hard to take in, but seriously he doesn't seem any good for you.
It's clear you both want different things. And who the hell would turn down sleeping in the same bed with your partner, and instead sleep on the sofa? He got issssssues.

[StrubbleS]

Dudes, seriously, stop stomping on her.

There HAVE BEEN changes recently! It's all getting good. He will sell his sofa and wendy will die of the bubonic plague. He will change and there won't be any issues anymore until judgement day!

Can't stand the negativity in here...

[alasia]

Oh how I love sarcasm.

Look, I know I'm coming across like I'm looking at the relationship through rose coloured glasses, but I'm really not. I am taking in what you guys are saying, and deep down I know that however much I want the relationship to work, it probably won't. Even if I did get back with him, I wouldn't be able to trust him.

The only reason I'm trying to look at the positive as well as the negatives is because I know I haven't been totally innocent in the relationship - I have a slight impulsive violent streak - so far when he's pissed me off I've slapped him, thrown a cup of (hot) tea over him and kicked him in the thigh while wearing stilletto-heeled boots (that was a week ago and there's still a big fuck-off graze/heel mark and a huge bruise on his leg). I DO try and wind him up by talking with other men - for example if we're in the pub, I'll talk to his friends just out of earshot of him, so he can't hear what we're saying. It's nothing bad but I make it look like I'm flirting to wind him up. And, I'll keep bringing Wendy into arguments by saying stuff like "off to fuck her?" when he walks away after a row. To give him his dues, he's never done anything like that and he's never used my bad behaviour against me, which is something I do all the time.

So it's not all him in that sense - ok he sleeps on the sofa most nights which is weird, but he has genuinely always done it - even when he was younger and lived with his mum (I've asked her). And he's happy to tell the cat and my pet rats that he loves them but finds it hard to tell me. Oh, and he's overly attached to Wendy - but something in my gut says that they're not sleeping together. Even Wendy's said it herself, and she had no reason to as she thought we'd split up when I asked her!

The other day, Phil told his workmate that he's not just sexually attracted to Wendy at all, whereas he is to me. I asked him if that was the problem; maybe he doesnt have as strong feelings for me but fancies me, whereas he doesn't find wendy attractive but has very strong feelings for her.
He said that wasn't true; he has feelings for Wendy but they're friendly feelings, completely different to the ones he has for me. Then he said he could tell I thought that would change, and that he'd develop feelings for Wendy even though he doesn't fancy her, and he said he just doesn't work like that - if there aren't sexual feelings there and he has no desire to sleep with someone, he won't ever want to be with them because he can't just develop feelings like that. It's either there or it isn't.

But obviously he could be talking bollocks :rolleyes:

[alasia]

And who the hell would turn down sleeping in the same bed with your partner, and instead sleep on the sofa? He got issssssues.

Well it is a very comfy sofa :p

Seriously though, it is weird. But he says he's always done it, even with pervious partners. I said I couldn't believe his last girlfriend (who was 18) would be happy hardly ever sharing a bed with him, but he said she didn't mind.

It doesn't bother me too much in the grand scheme of things; he'll come upstairs a few nights a week (although obviously we'll have sex more often than that!) and I spend nights on the sofa with him, which is actually quite nice. All squished together and cosy. He says the reason he doesn't come upstairs much is because he gets home from work at quarter to one in the morning and will watch tv until about 4am. He'll usually fall asleep on the sofa and says that when he wakes up at 5-6am he can't be bothered to drag himself upstairs. I'll be in bed way before then anyway - and he does come upstairs more often than once or twice a week if he gets to put the tv on in the bedroom ;)

[SuzyCreamcheese]

it just doesnt sound very healthy at all from either side to be fair Alasia.

[1983]

it just doesnt sound very healthy at all from either side to be fair Alasia.

Jesus, I know. All in two months?! Slapping, tea throwing, and kicking?! Sleeping seperately, secret texts, another woman..!?

Dear Deidre would love all this.

Like I said 483902 threads of your ago, Alasia..this is meant to be your honeymoon period and you guys are at each others' throats because there's a lack of trust.

I would head for the hills ASAP and stop making excuses and trying to force it to work when it clearly won't.

[alasia]

There aren't secret texts, and the 'other woman' is a friend. Apparently. And we don't always sleep seperately :(

I do see your point though, although we do get on really well most of the time, I guess I can't keep just focusing on the good bits of the relationship and hoping the crap will go away.

Although I'm convinced the reason it's all been so intense is because we've spent so much time together - I mean seriously, 1 week away from each other (in total) in 8 weeks can't be good.

Maybe if we did give it another go, we'd have to cut back on the amount of time we see each other?

[1983]

There aren't secret texts, and the 'other woman' is a friend. Apparently. And we don't always sleep seperately :(

I do see your point though, although we do get on really well most of the time, I guess I can't keep just focusing on the good bits of the relationship and hoping the crap will go away.

Although I'm convinced the reason it's all been so intense is because we've spent so much time together - I mean seriously, 1 week away from each other (in total) in 8 weeks can't be good.

Maybe if we did give it another go, we'd have to cut back on the amount of time we see each other?

It's not meant to be this hard so soon. And I was in the MOST difficult relationship known to man in my circle of friends that I broke free from in January. I'm happier now than throughout the two years I was with him, and I'm still single with a few notches on the bed post and closer to my friends than I ever have been.

I left him because the lack of trust and complications eats away at the time you're supposed to be growing together and doing stupid loved up nonsense with, and this is happening 2 months in. 2 MONTHS!

The way I always see things is that if it's meant to be you don't question it, have others dissect it etc and you just GO FOR IT. No one should sway your thoughts if it's a good thing to be involved in.

And as an outsider, this really isn't.

[Littleali]

i personally dont understand the point of this topic

u ask for opinions, we give them, u make silly little excuses for him?

whatever we say YOU have answer for, so whats the point?

[alasia]

Because at the end of the day Ali, I don't know you guys! You'd have to be pretty stupid to post a message on a forum like this and then blindly follow the advice you're given without sitting down and really thinking about it first! You say dump him, I say ok then go and do it because 5 people I know nothing about, nor will ever meet in 'real life' say so - that's not how it works.

The point of an advice forum IMO is to get opinions, think them over and then make your own decision based on a combination of your gut feeling, and the advice you've been given.

I am taking it all in, honestly I am - but I get the feeling you're all imagining that all me and Phil do is fight and argue, that Phil's out with Wendy constantly while I'm at home being a good little girlfriend and cooking dinner, then he comes home and we go to our seperate beds! Lol. It's not like that at all.

With all due respect (and I know it sounds like a cop-out); you're not in the relationship, I am. 90% of the time, it's great. It's just the 10% that needs work and what I'm trying to do is work out whether I'm blowing the situation out of proportion a bit and making it seem worse than it is, or whether the relationship really is a lost cause.

I'm not making excuses for him, or for me. Just trying to sort my head out :)

[Ballerina]

you seem to be burying your head in the sand tbh

what's with all the 'i love you too' texts and her having a strop when he mentions you?

him getting jealous/picking fights etc

and you've only been together 2 months? Just because there are good points doesn't always mean it's worth it. And if it's already this difficult - it probably isn't worth it.

I really do think he'd rather be with her but hasn't got the balls to. Sorry to be harsh.

[alasia]

I know.

I know Wendy's got feelings for him - she's admitted that to me.
I think there's a touch of manipulation on her part; she'll hang up the phone whenever she hears me in the background or he mentions me, she'll be nice to my face then phone him later on when she knows he'll be on his own and say something like "bit young for you, isn't she?", she'll get him running around after her but deliberately make it awkward for him (for example, making a drink or something to eat when she knows he's on his way to pick her up) - but just when he's thinking that she might be messing him around, she'll phone and say "I know your friends think I'm messing you around...but I'm not really. I do care for you...etc". I KNOW she's trying to split us up, but he says he can't see it.

I've had a chat with my best friend over this and she said that in her opinion, Phil's 'too nice' - he's going out of his way to help wendy out because he doesn't want to let her down (she hasnt really got anyone else), and because he's formed a strong bond with her. She says he also seems quite insecure about himself (I agree), so the idea of having 2 women 'in love' with him (even if one of them isnt genuine) is attractive to him. However, she believes him when he says he isn't interested in wendy in that way.

I really don't know what to think.

ETA: What I don't get, is I've given him the opportunity to be with her - whenever I've said it's over and I can't do it anymore, he's said "if it's what you want...but I still won't want to be with Wendy". I've also given him so many chances to finish it - I keep saying, if you'd prefer to be with wendy, or think you'll be better together than me and you, then I'll walk away.
I've even said it through text, so all he had to do was text back and say "ok", and it'd be done! But he doesn't do it - why?! It can't be a lack of balls, because I've laid it oout there on a plate for him.

[alasia]

It does make sense.

The thing is, despite everything I've never really thought that I don't want to be with him.
I can see us being together for the forseeable future, and the only thing that's getting to me at the moment is those 2 texts. My gut instinct is to give him the benefit of the doubt and believe him when he says that he was just telling her what he wants to hear, but at the back of my mind is the 'what if' factor - what if I trusted him and it turns out there was something going on all along? I'd look stupid.

It's more of a pride thing really.

The few petty squabbles we have and the jealousy (and the sleeping on the sofa a few times a week) really don't bother me.

[SuzyCreamcheese]

stay with him then.
Who gives a fuck?

[lipsy]

stay with him then.
Who gives a fuck?
lol true. she was always gona stay with him anyway!

[alasia]

Not true at all Lipsy. If I stay with him, it could turn out I was wrong about him, and I don't think I can risk it.

xsazx - I don't think you're getting what I'm saying - it's not that I 'don't want' the advice, I am taking it on board - it's just that I'm an analysing kind of person, so "he's a dickhead, dump him" isn't really helping me.

I'm trying to work out why he's like it, and if it's something that could be changed, or at least bent slightly! It's not about being stubborn and completely ignoring the advice I'm being given.

[Ballerina]

he says that he was just telling her what he wants to hear.
he's telling her her loves her cause that's what she wants to hear? Bollocks.
They're seriously screwing with each others minds and yours.

But it must be what you want if you're not going to leave him

[alasia]

No not that bit - he said the "I love you too", was actually meant to be "I love being with you" (as a friend) :rolleyes:

That's the bit that's grating to be honest, the part I can't get past.

[Ballerina]

No not that bit - he said the "I love you too", was actually meant to be "I love being with you" (as a friend) :rolleyes:

That's the bit that's grating to be honest, the part I can't get past.
if he meant 'i love being with you' then he would have put that tbh
he's leading her on

if it's getting at you then do you trust him?

[alasia]

if he meant 'i love being with you' then he would have put that tbh
he's leading her on

if it's getting at you then do you trust him?

I trust him to an extent, but I'll still be trying to eavesdrop on his phone conversations with Wendy and checking his phone for dodgy texts while he's asleep. So no, I don't trust him. But do you blame me?
Btw whenever I say "you told another woman you love her", he says "but I do love being with her!" It's like he can't see the difference between writing 'love' and 'love being with'.
And he is consistent - everything he's said, he's said everytime I've asked, there've been no changes of story or stumbling on his words, as soon as I ask him he'll come straight out with the answer, so either he's a very good liar, or he's telling the truth and just genuinely doesn't think of the consequences of his actions!

I've told him before that he's leading her on and he didn't deny it, he just nodded and when I asked why, he said he didn't know, but he wasn't interested in her in that way.

Part of me wonders whether it could just be the insecurity - he considers himself old and not that good looking (neither of which are true IMO) and is always putting himself down - plus he's been single for over 16 months, so maybe the idea of having 2 women 'fighting over him' is a novelty. I've said this to him too and he said "maybe".
Last time I asked him to stop leading Wendy on if he's genuinely not interested and tell her that he's not interested in that way, he said he couldn't because he didn't want to lose her as a friend.

It's hard to explain, but there is a kind of naivety and innocence about him. He's got absolutely no tact, so he'll say stupid things without thinking (like the time he told his mum I'd shaved my pubic hair and it was growing back very slowly...so it was like "humping a hedgehog"! He didnt realise what he'd said til I went bright red, then he turned red too and apologised). It's this innocent qualilty that makes me think that he could possibly be telling the truth.

Or it could all be an act.

[Ballerina]

I trust him to an extent, but I'll still be trying to eavesdrop on his phone conversations with Wendy and checking his phone for dodgy texts while he's asleep. So no, I don't trust him. But do you blame me?
Btw whenever I say "you told another woman you love her", he says "but I do love being with her!" It's like he can't see the difference between writing 'love' and 'love being with'.

I've told him before that he's leading her on and he didn't deny it, he just nodded and when I asked why, he said he didn't know, but he wasn't interested in her in that way.

Part of me wonders whether it could just be the insecurity - he considers himself old and not that good looking (neither of which are true IMO) and is always putting himself down - plus he's been single for over 16 months, so maybe the idea of having 2 women 'fighting over him' is a novelty. I've said this to him too and he said "maybe".
Last time I asked him to stop leading Wendy on if he's genuinely not interested and tell her that he's not interested in that way, he said he couldn't because he didn't want to lose her as a friend.

so he's leading her on and enjoying the drama, and uses the excuse of 'losing her as a friend' to stop leading her on? :eek2:

ffs get rid of him, he's relying on you giving him the benefit of the doubt and being naive by not giving you straight answers

[Sofie]

Why on earth are you with someone you don't trust/only trust to an extent?

[alasia]

I don't trust anyone completely, because I've been messed around in the past. He's the same though - he says he trusts that I won't go off with anyone else, but if he sees me chatting to another man there'll be a little twinge of "what if" in the back of his mind.

You know, I'm starting to think I should just get over it. Give it another go, put my trust in him and not read his messages, becayuse at the end of the day if he's going to cheat, he'll cheat anyway. Not like I can stop it happening.

*awaits a chorus of I told you so, she's an idiot"*

[Ballerina]

becayuse at the end of the day if he's going to cheat, he'll cheat anyway. Not like I can stop it happening.
you need some self respect

oh well, if you want to sit around waiting to be cheated on then be my guest

[alasia]

I'm not saying he's going to cheat! Lol.

I just mean people who are the cheating type will do it anyway, regardless of whether I'm snooping through their phone to find suspicious texts or not.

Deep down, I really don't think he's the cheating type - we've had this discussion before; he asked whether if I cheated on him, would I tell him (I said no) and he said he wouldn't cheat on me because it's not his thing, but if he did, he'd tell me about it. Not sure how true that is or not though.

[SuzyCreamcheese]

this is just totally going round in circles.

[lucifer devil]

No not that bit - he said the "I love you too", was actually meant to be "I love being with you" (as a friend) :rolleyes:




i CANNOT believe that you believe this bollocks.

if he wanted to say 'i love being with you' he would've said that. it is completely different from saying 'i love you' - neither is it something you say by accident.

and SCC is right - you're blatantly gonna stay with him anyway so this is pointless.

[Ballerina]

I'm not saying he's going to cheat! Lol.

I just mean people who are the cheating type will do it anyway, regardless of whether I'm snooping through their phone to find suspicious texts or not.

Deep down, I really don't think he's the cheating type - we've had this discussion before; he asked whether if I cheated on him, would I tell him (I said no) and he said he wouldn't cheat on me because it's not his thing, but if he did, he'd tell me about it. Not sure how true that is or not though.
er well they can't cheat on you if you're not with them....not difficult

it seems you want to leave him but want to wait til you've got a big reason to

[alasia]

No I don't want to leave him, I really don't.

I feel more for him than I ever have for anyone else, and could see myself being with him for a very long time if the current problems got sorted.

Sounds a cliche but my head says I should split with him, but my heart says trust him.

[Ballerina]

No I don't want to leave him, I really don't.

I feel more for him than I ever have for anyone else, and could see myself being with him for a very long time if the current problems got sorted.

Sounds a cliche but my head says I should split with him, but my heart says trust him.
have him then

but don't be suprised if it goes to bits when its already pear shaped and very suspicious

[alasia]

Tbh I'm not sure why people didn't give up on me sooner, but I'm glad they didn't because it really helped me sort my head out.

Quick update: I phoned Phil last night asking if I could go and see him for 5 minutes when he gets to Wolverhampton (where I'm staying; he's a bus driver so he was doing the wolves-stafford service) - I was planning on ending it with him, and preferred to do it face-to-face than over the phone.

He said he didn't want me to see him, because it would "spoil it" (I asked what he meant and he said it'd spoil him seeing me on monday).
So I hung up, then a few mins later texted him saying it's over. He replied straight away, saying I "could have 5 mins" if I wanted to, and I said I didn't need it and that I'd made my decision.
There were a few more texts from him, asking if I wanted him to drop my stuff over today (I said no, I'd sort it on monday) and as he didn't really seem bothered that I'd finished with him, I texted saying "thanks for seeming so bothered..." he replied saying he wasnt bothered, and that he'd texted Wendy telling her not to contact him again (great...now he does it!).

Anyway that was about it until I phoned him at about 1am, when he got home from work. There was a lot of random chat (we're good at that), then I asked how he can suddenly not be bothered about me, when that morning he'd been saying he loved me!
He said "I am bothered about you! But you've got what you wanted" (meaning splitting up). I said I didn't want to split, but it seemed that it was what he was trying to get me to do, and he said he doesn't want to split up with me, he loves me. I asked about the 'not bothered' text, and he said that he meant that about Wendy - that she's doing his head in now (she phoned him earlier to ask about bus times, then started going on about a dog following her or something...and apparently that was enough to bore him to death and make him think he doesn't want to keep in touch with her after all! fickle isn't he! :rolleyes:). Then he said "hopefully I've sorted the Wendy thing, I texted her earlier telling her not to contact me, and hopefully she'll take notice and not get in touch again".

So...it seems like he's willing to drop Wendy, and he still wants to be with me (he offered to keep the text telling Wendy to stop contacting him on his phone so I can see it tomorrow), but I can't do it.
However much I care about him (and I really do), and even if he does go through with cutting Wendy out of his life, I'm suspicious as to why he's had such a sudden change of heart. Before, he said he'd never cut Wendy out of his life completely, yet as soon as I split up with him he's done it! This has happened before; he split with me and got rid of Wendy too, but as soon as we got back together (the split only lasted a day!), he got back in touch with Wendy. This time, he wants us to be together, but he's still saying he'll get rid of Wendy. I'm wondering whether Wendy's the one that's told him she doesn't want to see him anymore, and he's making out like it's him that's done it.

Anyway not that any of you will believe me, but I can't be with him. It's way to much hassle.

Thanks for the advice :)

[kittie_Keats]

Ok the sofa things a bit odd.
But the rest doesnt seem too crazy. My bf and i are the same. Been together about 2 mths and we're like a little old couple. We'll sit both with laptops, i'll occasioanlyl send a msg via msn saying "give us a kiss" and he'll oblige or we get a bit kissy but we often go for hrs not doing anything but smirking at each other.

In public we hold hands and we joke about "public affection" if he kisses me goodbye.

At our parents we kiss like old ppl every so often.

Errr we sleep in the same bed 3-4 times a week. He usually cuddles me but lately we've slept separate. I dont know...

Now i sort of see that as normal for me. Not too clingy and not too distant. Guess its what you perceive and are happy with.

I found that when i tried for more affection, it certainly wasn't turned down, just think the go ahead was needed. Kitts xx

[alasia]

Yeah that's like me and Phil.

He doesn't turn down affection if I ask for it - like at the moment I've got a bad cold, and felt really rough the other day. I was lying on the sofa with my legs over his (he was watching tv) and I jokingly said that when he'd been ill a few days before I'd been rubbing his back to make him feel better and stuff like that, so I wanted some sympathy from him. He laughed, then started rubbing my leg. Then he came and lied down next to/behind me (I was on my side) and cuddled up to me. Was lovely :D

Anyway we had a chat on the phone today, and it turns out the reason for all the arguments is that he thinks he's too old for me. He said he loves me and wants to be with me, but he knows that he's getting "more wrinkly by the year" (lol) and that I'll come to my senses and go off him eventually - and he can't risk getting hurt.
I believe him when he says it, because since we've been together he's brought the age thing up pretty much every day, always saying he expects me to go off with someone my own age, and that he's old and boring and I'd be happier without him.

Poor thing.

[1983]

Yeah that's like me and Phil.

He doesn't turn down affection if I ask for it - like at the moment I've got a bad cold, and felt really rough the other day. I was lying on the sofa with my legs over his (he was watching tv) and I jokingly said that when he'd been ill a few days before I'd been rubbing his back to make him feel better and stuff like that, so I wanted some sympathy from him. He laughed, then started rubbing my leg. Then he came and lied down next to/behind me (I was on my side) and cuddled up to me. Was lovely :D

Anyway we had a chat on the phone today, and it turns out the reason for all the arguments is that he thinks he's too old for me. He said he loves me and wants to be with me, but he knows that he's getting "more wrinkly by the year" (lol) and that I'll come to my senses and go off him eventually - and he can't risk getting hurt.
I believe him when he says it, because since we've been together he's brought the age thing up pretty much every day, always saying he expects me to go off with someone my own age, and that he's old and boring and I'd be happier without him.

Poor thing.

OMG. You're really thick. Honestly. What tripe he's telling you.

[Ballerina]

Yeah that's like me and Phil.

He doesn't turn down affection if I ask for it - like at the moment I've got a bad cold, and felt really rough the other day. I was lying on the sofa with my legs over his (he was watching tv) and I jokingly said that when he'd been ill a few days before I'd been rubbing his back to make him feel better and stuff like that, so I wanted some sympathy from him. He laughed, then started rubbing my leg. Then he came and lied down next to/behind me (I was on my side) and cuddled up to me. Was lovely :D

Anyway we had a chat on the phone today, and it turns out the reason for all the arguments is that he thinks he's too old for me. He said he loves me and wants to be with me, but he knows that he's getting "more wrinkly by the year" (lol) and that I'll come to my senses and go off him eventually - and he can't risk getting hurt.
I believe him when he says it, because since we've been together he's brought the age thing up pretty much every day, always saying he expects me to go off with someone my own age, and that he's old and boring and I'd be happier without him.

Poor thing.

with all due respect, he probably is too old for you tbh

you're not going to get anywhere if you're going to feel sorry for him every time he tries a sob story

[Jaloux]

OMG. You're really thick. Honestly. What tripe he's telling you.

:yes: He's playing himself as a victim. Whether it's conscious on his behalf or not, everything you posted screams that he's playing mind games with you. You should tell him to grow up and then completely break off contact for a while since you've split up with him anyway.

[alasia]

Oh don't worry, I'm not getting back with him.

He knows that.

[tinydancer]

Oh don't worry, I'm not getting back with him.

He knows that.
i honestly think ur kiddin urself hun, keep away from this guy, he sounds like such a TWAT!!i know it's difficult to see when you care so much- but dont think abt it,jus DO IT!!listen to all the advice uv been given here!xx

[alasia]

Tbh I do think he is genuinely paranoid about the age, because he's been going on about it ever since we got together. Plus all his friends and workmates keep going on about the age gap, and saying things like how the hell did you pull her?! He looks crushed when they say that.

But I can't get back with him, and I'm going out there tomorrow to collect my stuff.

[StrubbleS]

Tbh I do think he is genuinely paranoid about the age, because he's been going on about it ever since we got together. Plus all his friends and workmates keep going on about the age gap, and saying things like how the hell did you pull her?! He looks crushed when they say that.

But I can't get back with him, and I'm going out there tomorrow to collect my stuff.

Jesus christ, finally.... And I thought I have to pop a blood vessel in my head because of you.

[alasia]

Hehe, I'm not that stupid, been thinking all along that I should split with him, I texted him yesterday that it was over.

But you don't stop having feelings for someone just like that. Although nope, definitely not getting back with him.

[lucifer devil]

you made the right decision. i hope you realise that one day. :yes:

[alasia]

I know, I do know that.

It's sad, but I just cba with it anymore. If he wants to end up old and alone, that's his choice.

He's always said he gets close to people then pushes them away - and regrets it when they leave him - so now he has another one to add to his list :(