Steven McLaren...

[Kermit]

Time to go, bonehead.

We can't afford to put up with this moron any longer, at this rate we won't qualify.

I'm not one to jump on someone's back after one bad result, but this man does not have a clue, and he's been out-witted by fucking Macedonia. He wouldn't know a tactic if it hit him over the head with a cricket bat.

Lampard is a waste of space, Gerrard is England's best player so he gets dumped on the right wing just because McLaren wants to prove he's a hard man by dropping Beckham, Carrick showed just what a bargain Scott Parker was, and the only player who actually did anything all game was Crouch.

A disgraceful performance, and its time to get a manager in who's not a plank. We've managed to regress back to the dark days of Idiot Hoddle, not bad considering its only his third game in charge.

Still, at least we're not Welsh or Irish.

[JsT]

We we're a bit shit.

Think 3 games is a bit short to start calling for his head. Although Wednesday's game will be the real big test.

[film_buff]

1 person - David Beckham

McClaren wanted to prove its a new era by dropping Becks from the squad, he is wrong. How can someone go from captain and first team to not even in the squad when we have numerous injuries.

If any one should be dropped its Lampard (im a big fan of lampard) he does nothing apart from shoot from miles out, 1 out of 10 hits target, 1 out of 30 scores.

[godscop]

Time to go, bonehead.

We can't afford to put up with this moron any longer, at this rate we won't qualify.


Talk about an overeaction for fuck sake, two wins and one draw isn't the worst possible start is it?

[migpilot]

It's not about that.
It's about his demeanor and his defensiveness at press conferences too.
He is not a world figure and i don't think he can deal with the players he's got.
One of the reasons is that all these players saw that he had no influence over Ericsson for a lot of years so why should they go and trust him now. It's one thing to manage and another to lead.
And he ain't no leader.

He wasn't even a first choice for the job and that's not a good thing most of the time.

Who was supposed to be a defensive midfielder yesterday?????
There was no shape to England.
And no heart.

[JsT]

Talk about an overeaction for fuck sake, two wins and one draw isn't the worst possible start is it?
Considering who we've been playing.

Macedonia, Jamaica, teams we should be beating easily.

[godscop]

It's not about that.
It's about his demeanor and his defensiveness at press conferences too.

Can't blame him for being defensive at press conferences, the best way to handle the British media is to say nothing.

He is not a world figure and i don't think he can deal with the players he's got. One of the reasons is that all these players saw that he had no influence over Ericsson for a lot of years so why should they go and trust him now.

I didn't realise you were so involved with the england setup.

Considering who we've been playing.

Macedonia, Jamaica, teams we should be beating easily.

Yes, but 3 games into qualifying, 2 wins, 1 draw, they're on 7 points and top the group.

[Yerascrote]

I wouldn't mind dropping him, anything to see the English in a crisis is good for me.

I watched the match last night, with a bit of luck and better execution you could have won that game 2/3-0. Wouldn't have this thread if it had gone like that, give him a chance I say.

[Bri-namite]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fGCsItMlq4&NR

I can't see England not qualifying, same as I can't see Scotland qualifying. Although if they did, I think it'd be up there anything any home nation has done in the last 40 or so years.

Still, Saturday night was the best I've ever felt after a game :thumb:

[Lickalotapuss]

Think its a massive over-reaction calling for his head lol.

We were shite don't get me wrong and I know in the end the buck stops with the manager but its the players who need to take a hard look at themselves after this below average performance.

McLaren made 2 forced changes to his side and swapped defoe for Rooney, I think if any of us had being in the same situation after some good results we would of all made very similar changes.

I'm not convinced Crouch n Rooney can play together and that didn't help us but its probably the front two most of us would have started with as Crouchs record recently is incredible and Rooney's classed as one of the best players in the world, although he's far from showing that with his perfomances for the scum and this performance for England. We did need someone who could have got behind there defence and Crouch or Rooney were never going to do that.

Not sure whether it was a manger decision or whether he told Gerrard to play a free role in this game but he was drifting way too much. Too many times in the game the player in possession was facing the right wing and Gerrard was too far inside to recieve the pass, it was Neville who provided most of the width in the final third on the right hand side but this should be Gerrards job if he's playing there. I like him drifting occasionally, but it happened too much in this game.

We had the chances to win the game and like someones sadi if they had of being put away this thread wouldn't have being made and everyone would still think Mclaren was a genius lol. It was a lack of quality in front of goal and a lot of the final balls just weren't good enough, McLaren can't be blamed for either in my opinion, they get paid shit loads each week and are quality players who should deliver when they cross that white line when its out of the managers hands.

[Kermit]

Talk about an overeaction for fuck sake, two wins and one draw isn't the worst possible start is it?

Nine points is a minimum against those teams. We're gonna get spanked by Croatia.

The point is that England have regressed already under McLaren, the man clearly has no idea how to get the team to play. Pushing Gerrard out to the right wing in order to accomodate a defensive midfielder is stupid, continuing to pick the ineffective Lampard is stupid, dropping Beckham is stupid. Defoe is a waste of space, if he isn't even first choice at Spurs he shouldn't be in the England squad. The substiutions were ludicrous- playing a right winger down the left wasn't going to work, replacing Rooney for a Spurs squad player wasn't going to work (although Rooney did need to be taken off).

England have got much much worse in the space of three games under this bonehead, and that's the honest truth. We're back to the dark days of Hoddle and Keegan, the man is out of his depth, and the blame rests entirely with the incompetent FA. He seems to be more intent on proving he's different to Eriksson than he is at picking his best team and using them sensibly.

The reason why I blame mcLaren for England's delivery is because of his team selection- Gerrard is not a right-winger, and it is a waste of his talent to put him there. England's central midfield were negative and clueless because of the insistence on playing a holding midfielder- I can understand that Hargreaves was undroppable, but he's not playing, so why persevere? Why persevere with Lampard? Perhaps if hje was dropped he'd get his lazy Cockney arse into gear. Why no Beckham, he's still England's best right-sided midfielder.

[Thunderstruck]

Don't quite think it's time for him to go; I don't remember anyone being sacked after three games but England recently have just not had a fucking clue how to play football. To be perfectly honest, if I were a Macedonian defender, I would have been pissing myself at the complete lack of any kind of ideas upfront.

Ok we're missing Hargreaves which is a big setback plus Lampard has forgotten how to play for England, but even so, we drew against a country most people would be hard pressed to find on a map.

The only time we actually looked like scoring was when Wright-Phillips came on and he can't even get a game for Chelsea. Crouch was good, Rooney looked ok but clearly lacking confidence and every England attack was just so predictible.

I can't believe I'm typing this, I wish I were Scottish. They played like fucking heroes.

[Lickalotapuss]

You can't argue though that apart from this game Gerrard has being incredible on the right side and has caused opposition massive problems, he wasn't at the races this weekend but thats not Mclarens fault. He also proves on a regular basis for Liverpool that he is a quality player out on the right hand side.

Substitutions - Something needed to be changed, what changes would you have made??
I called both them substitutions before he made them. Normally though it would have being Joe Cole coming on for Downing if when Joe Cole is fit he doesn't retain his place from Downing. I think we needed someone like SWP coming on and trying to frighten the defence and with the choice of Gerrard or Downing to come off I think he made the right choice, although I suppose he could of brought Lamps off moved Gerrard inside n put SWP on the right. Rooney had to come off, he was poor, he was losing possession too easily and his decision making was slow and crap. Defoe in my eyes was the right choice, he'd linked up well with Crouch in the previous games and he also has the speed and ability to maybe get behind the defence.
I would like to know the changes you would of made.

[Kermit]

I'd have taken both Lampard and Carrick off- neither of them could string two passes together, and in the case of Lampard he hasn't been able to do so since Euro 2004. I'd have replaced them at half time with Parker and SWP, with Gerrard moving inside.

I'd have had Beckham in the squad at the very least.

I'd have put Bent on, because Bent plays regularly and knows where the goal is. Defoe is another Andy Cole.

[Lickalotapuss]

If you watched the analysis after the game Carrick actually played some very good balls. He had a problem at the start as gerrard n lamps were far too close to him.

I'd also have Beckham in the squad although I don't think he would be in my starting 11.

[I'm With Stupid]

I'd have taken both Lampard and Carrick off- neither of them could string two passes together, and in the case of Lampard he hasn't been able to do so since Euro 2004.
Are you kidding? Carrick was hands down our best player (not hard, I know). Every pass he made was positive, and most met their target. But for too long our problem has been a complete lack of movement, for good passers like Carrick to exploit. Agreed on Lampard. Gerrard needs to be given the centre midfield back, because he'll make the quality forward runs for Carrick to pick him out. Right midfield has to go to Wright-Phillips or Lennon when he's fit. And we need to play Rooney or Crouch, because they're both effectively second strikers who need a goal poacher ahead of them. And as soon as Joe Cole is fit, we need him back on the left, because he's one of the few players that we have that can open defences up.

What worries me more than anything though, is that Englands best players are always judged on individual performances, rather than because they dominated the opposition as a team. Someone like Stewart Downing is playing poorly, because he isn't the type of player that's going to take on the whole defence by himself, he's better if the rest of the team are there to make runs for him, where his crossing ability comes to the fore (well usually. I hope Saturday was an off day). We've had the same problem since Sven took charge, and it hasn't changed much yet. On paper we've got one of the best squads in the world, but on the pitch we've got an average team, because we have a team of individuals. And that's down to the manager. But I'm willing to be a bit more patient with McLaren, rather than judging him after 3 games. There's nothing wrong with having a poor performance, if you identify the reasons why and fix it for the next game. So let's see if he does.

[I'm With Stupid]

I'd also have Beckham in the squad although I don't think he would be in my starting 11.
It's ironic that McLaren seems to want to play a game which relies on width and getting crosses into the box, which is exactly what Beckham is good at (as long as you make sure he stays out wide). Dropping him would be fair enough if you were planning on a more Arsenal or Chelsea style of play, but they seem to be going with the 90's Man Utd style for now.

[Flake_Mustaine]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fGCsItMlq4&NR

I can't see England not qualifying, same as I can't see Scotland qualifying. Although if they did, I think it'd be up there anything any home nation has done in the last 40 or so years.

Still, Saturday night was the best I've ever felt after a game :thumb:

Great video :) (Great result!)

[NinjaMaster]

(Great result!)

Incorrect.

Fucking magic result.

[Kermit]

Are you kidding? Carrick was hands down our best player (not hard, I know). Every pass he made was positive, and most met their target.

I didn't realise our strikers were sat in the back of the Stretford End. He was more effective than Lampard, I'll grant you that, but that wasn't hard.

The only two people who turned up on Saturday were Crouch and King.

Poor performances don't bother me, everyone has an off-day, but it was the complete and total lack of any ideas. I can tolerate ideas not working, what I cannot stand is the tactical void at the heart of the English managerial team. McLaren is an excellent coach- he proved that at Derby and United- but that does not make him a decent manager.

[Man Of Kent]

And one draw doesn't make him a bad one.

Am I missing something or isn't this the same team to held us during the last qualification?

[Kermit]

It's the same team with all the ability and passing gone.

I admit that I was completely against the appointment of McLaren as Head Coach, but already it looks like I'm vindicated. He's a good coach, but he cannot manage a team at the highest level, as he showed at Boro.

The FA turned down O'Neill for this?

[Sofie]

For Christ Sake, he's only been there for 5 minutes and just because we drew with Macedonia you want him out? :rolleyes:

[edn1]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fGCsItMlq4&NR

I can't see England not qualifying, same as I can't see Scotland qualifying. Although if they did, I think it'd be up there anything any home nation has done in the last 40 or so years.

Still, Saturday night was the best I've ever felt after a game :thumb:

A fucking quality result not to be undervalued ! :D

In all honest i thought the appointment of McLaren was a mistake. Like was mentioned the guy wasnt first choice and if you're anything behind second choice you're obviously not good enough. You thought the appointment of Sven was bad ?

In saying all that, The English fans need to give him more time, although getting nothing out of games against teams like macadonia, it's understandable to be outraged.

[Man Of Kent]

It's the same team with all the ability and passing gone.

You did watch England under Sven, didn't you?

It's basically much the same but without Beckham in the team - and also no Owen, Cole and Hargreaves at the moment. Problem wit hplaying Crouch is that it's just too easy to punt the ball forward...

I admit that I was completely against the appointment of McLaren as Head Coach, but already it looks like I'm vindicated.

Hardly, he's unbeaten and top of his group.

He's a good coach, but he cannot manage a team at the highest level, as he showed at Boro.

... by only winning their first ever trophy and only taking them to a European final. How many other managers can claim that in this day and age?

The FA turned down O'Neill for this?

Did you seriously believe that they would ever have taken him on?

[godscop]

Nine points is a minimum against those teams. We're gonna get spanked by Croatia.

The point is that England have regressed already under McLaren

No, england were shit, unimaginative and plain fucking boring to watch under sven, nothing has changed yet. 7 points out of a possible 9 is a good start, they're top of the group ffs.

Please stop, by your reaction anyone would think they lost 0-4.

[Kermit]

I didn't expect the FA to appoint O'Neill- that would have been a sensible and intelligent appointment. What is known is that O'Neill would have said yes straight away if he'd been offered it.

I don't have any particular problem with McLaren as a man or as a coach, but he is not able enough for the England job, and his assistant is as clueless as he is.

[Addict]

The FA turned down O'Neill for this?

Yes, but they couldn't risk upsetting the master race could they, with their xenophobic desire for a shite English manager? :rolleyes:

England fans don't deserve O'Neill.

[muse-]

macedonia aren't that bad.... more people would know them as yugoslavia and they have some decent players.

[Kermit]

macedonia aren't that bad.... more people would know them as yugoslavia and they have some decent players.

No, that's Serbia.

Macedonia is a mountain country with two million people and ten million sheep.

[I'm With Stupid]

Though I thought Carrick played well, he was probably one of the reasons that they could pass it around so well. There was no-one to break up play and get possession back for us. Noramally against opposition like this, that wouldn't be a problem, we'd just pass it around better than they do. But as it was, we played shit and let them play, rather than doing one or the other.

[Kermit]

As for over-reaction, is tonight's pathetic scoreline enough?

[Senor Miguel]

i'm no fan of sven but i just heard on the radio that he only lost 1 qualifying game in 5 years, looks like its only taken mcclaren 5 games lol.........enough said, time to bring back beckham.

[Flake_Mustaine]

oh jeez, the less said about tonight's game the better :rolleyes:
Least most the other home nations did well :)

[Lickalotapuss]

As for over-reaction, is tonight's pathetic scoreline enough?
Not to call for his head no.
Don't think the formation worked too badly after the first quarter of the game but its the front partnership thats cost us these last 2 games.
I've said many times Rooney n Crouch can't play together, I said it after the last game and I'm saying it again now. We need an Owen/Defoe type player to get behind n stretch the defence. Carrick had no where to ping balls to cos both Rooney and Crouch looking for it at their feet. Defoe med an impact straight away n it stretched the Croats and made them think about it, was too easy for them knowing England were never going to get in behind them cos Crouch jst doesn't have the pace.
We were shite but the 2-goals were both comedy, that short arse should have never got a header away n the less said about the 2nd goal the better i think. But that 2nd goal really did kill the game.

[Kermit]

Defoe worried the Croats? :lol: He's another Andy Cole- he couldn't hit a cow's arse with a banjo at international level.

Carrick was shit (again), Lampard was shit (again), the only midfielder who wasn't awful was Parker.

And the reason why we didn't stretch the Croats was because knucklehead played five at the back- it's no wonder we didn't have any width or pace.

I always thought Sven did a lot better than he got credit for, and the performance of this moron proves it quite clearly already.

[caenine06]

Go on then Kermit, give us your ideal team line up that we should have played last night. Now i aint saying last night was any good cos frankly we werent, however i would love to hear who you would have had last night...

[Lickalotapuss]

You either didn't watch the game or no very little about football mate.
Lampard and Carrick were shite, why?? Because there was no-one for them to fucking pass to. Lamps n Carrick got the ball looked up for a Defoe/owen type player running in behind the defence, which is where you can cause teams problems and there was no-one cos both Crouch n Roon were both coming towards the player looking for balls into feet.

You laugh at me saying Defoe worried them but just prooves how little you know really. When Defoe came on didn't you notice the game open up?? Maybe worried was the wrong word but the Croats had a lot more to think about. Before Defoe came on they didn't have the slightest bit of worry about an attacking player getting in behind their defence because there was no-one there to do it. Carrick gets ball, looks up, Defoe making the run in behind, Carrick picks him out, excellent control by Defoe and the Croat defence were stretched for the VERY FIRST time in the game, 1 defender just got back and nudged it for a corner just before Defoe could unleash a shot. I know Defoe isn't Micheal Owen but fuck me he's better than a Crouch/Rooney combination. Either Crouch or Roon needs to play with a Defoe type player NOT together.

Another reason why we needed Defoe on from the start, when you play 3-5-2, its esssential you stretch them, allowing the wing backs to make their runs forward. We were nover gonna stretch them playing Roon n Crouch.

I thought it was going to end up as five at the back but it didn't at all, what game was you watching?? Whenever we had possession at the back it was a very spread out back 3 with Rio and Carragher going wide, Carragher actually advanced up the pitch quite regular and Cole was always up the pitch playing as a proper wing back. Neville was a bit less so, he was too deep most of the time. But it was only a back 5 when we were defending which is the how the system is meant to work, and even then it wasn't always a back 5 cos I remember numerous occasions when Rio/Terry/Carragher were fighting for balls at the full back positions.
Seriously were you watching the same game as me??

[Jarvey Of Suburbia]

I never rated him as a manager, mid-table is where he belongs.

btw iv'e been saying rooney is crap for 2 years.

Come back Beckham plz.

[Kermit]

I watched the "highlights" as I don't have Sky, and listened to the radio.

Carrick is crap and Lampard is crap. Lampard in an England shirt does nothing except prove just how good Claude Makelele is. Fact.

I would have dropped Lampard and played 4-4-2. I'd have played the same defence (minus Carragher) but I'd have played Parker and Beckham in the centre of midfield, with SWP down the right and Downing or Etherington down the left (but only because Joe Cole and Lennon are injured). I wouldn't have Defoe anywhere near the England squad because he is rubbish- if he's so good why can't he get a game at mediocre Spurs? I would have probably played Bent instead of Rooney, but only because Andrew Johnson is injured.

I appreciate England are depleted- at least a third of my ideal first team is injured or suspended- but that is no justification for what happened last night. I didn't expect us to beat Croatia because they are a very good team, but I did expect us to fight.

[caenine06]

Well even on the highlights, you would have seen 'crap' Defoe making an impact when he was on. The Croatians suddenly had to think about what they were doing defensively.... So you would have played Parker instead of Carrick... Laughable. sorry but i disagree with that completely. The only problem i can see Carrick had was that there was no one running forward behind the defense for him to pass to.

[Kermit]

Parker has actually done something this season, unlike the overpriced and over-rated Carrick.

A good passer would create space, and if there isn't any space would pass appropriately. Carrick just wangs it up to Crouch. I could do that.

As for Defoe, why should he start for England if he cannot hold down a place up front in a mid-table team? If he isn't good enough for bloody Spurs then he definitely isn't good enough for England.

I can't believe people want to defend the clown in charge now.

[caenine06]

I aint defending Maclaren in fact all i saw last night in the first half was England playing like the Boro played last season... But i wouldnt take carrick off for Parker... And you say Lampard is shit. i just cant understand that at all..

[Kermit]

Lampard has done nothing for England for well over two years, and he isn't a shadow of the player he is for Chelsea. The only difference is that for England he doesn't have Makelele doing his running for him.

[Toadborg]

So you would have played Parker instead of Carrick... Laughable. sorry but i disagree with that completely. The only problem i can see Carrick had was that there was no one running forward behind the defense for him to pass to.

The 'only' problem Carrick has was that he did absolutely nothing all game, I can only remember him doing anything once in the whole 90 minutes, and that wasn't that good.

if he isn't going to help then waht is the point of him being on the pitch? I would much rather have Beckham than Carrick (or at least replacing Jenas in the squad), at least he can deliver a decent ball and not just make 5 yard horizontal passes.

Having said that people are over reacting enormously, especially concerning McLaren.

Neither of the goals was a result of the different formation and we were just as inept going forward against macedonia on Saturday as we were last night. I would say that he should have waited for a friendly to try out the nes fornation though.

The most notable thing McLaren did wrong is waiting until we were 2-0 down to make a change, and then he should have put Bent on rather than richardson (another player who should not be in the england squad)

[Flake_Mustaine]

Lampard has done nothing for England for well over two years, and he isn't a shadow of the player he is for Chelsea. The only difference is that for England he doesn't have Makelele doing his running for him.

Very true.

[I'm With Stupid]

Lampard has done nothing for England for well over two years, and he isn't a shadow of the player he is for Chelsea. The only difference is that for England he doesn't have Makelele doing his running for him.
The only difference, obviously, is that he has a manager who doesn't know how to use him properly. The same applies to Gerrard. We've never seen a Gerrard performance in an England shirt that even comes close to his quality for Liverpool. The only England player that has peformed to a world class standard (which everyone claims a few of our players are) over the past year is Joe Cole in my opinion. Ashley Cole has shown glimpses too, but no-one else comes close. But they've all been playing brilliantly for their clubs.

So it must come down to the manager (both) and the system. Carrick is the classiest midfielder we've got in my opinion (Gerrard is the best, but Carrick is the most polished). He can pick out excellent passes, play with both feet, and rarely gives the ball away, as he proved for Spurs last season (look how they're doing now he's gone). But he's a player that relies on the rest of the team playing well too. He can't force the wingers or forwards to make good runs for him. I think Carrick and Gerrard would be a good combination, because they're quite different. Similar to Gattuso and Pirlo in the centre for Italy, except that Gerrard would be more of an attacking threat than Gattuso.

[I'm With Stupid]

Neither of the goals was a result of the different formation and we were just as inept going forward against macedonia on Saturday as we were last night. I would say that he should have waited for a friendly to try out the nes fornation though.
The first goal was due to there being three centre backs, and none of them knowing who was supposed to be marking who. This confusion was demonstrated by the numerous free headers that Croatia got in the box, which they probably wouldn't have with a flat back four who all know what their responsibilities are.

[Lickalotapuss]

Come back and all these posts, where to fucking start with some of the crap that gets written on here :chin: :p
A good passer would create space, and if there isn't any space would pass appropriately. Carrick just wangs it up to Crouch. I could do that.

Bullshit, thats the only option he had. He's a quality passer of the ball but like someone else has said he can't make the runs aswell as pick out the pass. He had space to make his pass but the only pass available was 5 yards horizontal either side of him.
at least he can deliver a decent ball and not just make 5 yard horizontal passes.

Thats the only option he had..fact. He can't deliver 30/40/50 yard balls when no-one is making a run in them areas, hence why we need a Owen/Defoe type player.
The most notable thing McLaren did wrong is waiting until we were 2-0 down to make a change, and then he should have put Bent on rather than richardson (another player who should not be in the england squad)
Agreed slightly, but there was on 6minutes or something between goals, I think he was planning on changing and whilst deciding which way to do it we conceeded a freak goal, can't blame manager really.
The first goal was due to there being three centre backs, and none of them knowing who was supposed to be marking who. This confusion was demonstrated by the numerous free headers that Croatia got in the box, which they probably wouldn't have with a flat back four who all know what their responsibilities are.
Dis-agree. Look at the previous england fixtures, numurous free headers in and around the penalty box and thats usually with a back 4. I blame Terry for the first goal, that midget didn't even have to jump and he shouldn't have won the header, it was Terrys ball and he failed to get rid of it. Maybe he had a little stumble but it was his to defend and he didn't do his job.
As for Defoe, why should he start for England if he cannot hold down a place up front in a mid-table team? If he isn't good enough for bloody Spurs then he definitely isn't good enough for England.
For me its more about the type of player than Defoe himself. But why shouldn't he start?? We've played a few games under Mclaren before these 2 nightmare performances and we've won them, we've looked reasonably comfortable and we've got confidence throughout the team and the whole nation. The only reason hes being dropped is not because of his performances but because Shrek has come back. He linked up well with crouch and we looked half decent going forward, we threatened teams. We hardly threatened Macedonia and I don't think we threatened Croatia at all. So fair enough hes not holding down a starting place at spurs but the few games before these 2 England actually looked decent and he was very much part of that so why not play him?

[Addict]

Kermit, are you bumming Scot Parker?

He was absolutely shite last night, I don't know how you can defend him ahead of the other midfielders who were admittedly just as poor in that shambles of a system.

Carrick's not going to be able to do much when Crouch and Rooney are both running towards him. You need a striker running away from the midfield to get the best out of Carrick. You have no concept of a good midfielder if you think Carrick is 'crap'. Play Andy Johnson, Defoe or Bent alongside Rooney and you'll see a much more effective Carrick. Yet again Crouch shows he can only play against part-timers.

[Lickalotapuss]

Yet again Crouch shows he can only play against part-timers.
Stop talking shite. Like me saying Rooney proved against Macedonia he's shit.

Why Crouch AND Rooney are both looking shite because they can't play together. Rooney needs a guy on the last man making them runs behind, just like Crouch does. The space between the midfield and Front man is where BOTH them play their best football, Crouch is never going to look good playing on the last man, hes slow as fuck, he needs to be in the gap with the ball played into him with people running off him.

[Addict]

Stop talking shite. Like me saying Rooney proved against Macedonia he's shit.

Why Crouch AND Rooney are both looking shite because they can't play together. Rooney needs a guy on the last man making them runs behind, just like Crouch does. The space between the midfield and Front man is where BOTH them play their best football, Crouch is never going to look good playing on the last man, hes slow as fuck, he needs to be in the gap with the ball played into him with people running off him.

That was a rather tongue in cheek statement about Crouch. I just don't think Crouch merits a place based on goals against shite opposition. He's never played well, never mind score against better opposition for England. I suppose I'm just sick of hearing the scouser 'current best striker in the world' shite. If you read my post I agreed that Rooney and Crouch can't play together. I said you need another Owen-esque striker such as Johnson, and I'd partner whoever it was with Rooney over Crouch any day.

[Lickalotapuss]

That was a rather tongue in cheek statement about Crouch. I just don't think Crouch merits a place based on goals against shite opposition. He's never played well, never mind score against better opposition for England. I suppose I'm just sick of hearing the scouser 'current best striker in the world' shite. If you read my post I agreed that Rooney and Crouch can't play together. I said you need another Owen-esque striker such as Johnson, and I'd partner whoever it was with Rooney over Crouch any day.
Obviously Rooney gets in the team before Crouch but you've got to give Crouch some credit, hes stepped up to the plate in the absence of Owen and Rooney and hes never let the team down in terms of goals and effort. He's probably done too well to tell you the truth because it would have being tough leaving him out of the team but that is what was needed once The Roon returned.

[Toadborg]

Thats the only option he had..fact. He can't deliver 30/40/50 yard balls when no-one is making a run in them areas, hence why we need a Owen/Defoe type player.





I meant as in shooting and crossing from free kicks and corners. I agree that players need to be able to make good runs.

beckham at least poses that threat, which Carrik doesn't, hence why i would rather have Beckham than Carrick........

[Addict]

Do you reckon McClaren will play 3-5-2 again? What a joke. I haven't seen that system used seriously since the 90's.

[Lickalotapuss]

I meant as in shooting and crossing from free kicks and corners. I agree that players need to be able to make good runs.

beckham at least poses that threat, which Carrik doesn't, hence why i would rather have Beckham than Carrick........
You mean Beckham playing in the holding midfield role?? I don't think thats two bad an option, because like you say he'll be on the pitch to deliver from set-plays etc.
We still need that guy making the runs behind otherwise Beckham being on the pitch wouldn't have made the slightest bit of difference in open play because he too would have only 5 yard passes available.

[Addict]

We still need that guy making the runs behind otherwise Beckham being on the pitch wouldn't have made the slightest bit of difference in open play because he too would have only 5 yard passes available.

Which is why Beckham and Owen were so productive together. A ball playing midfielder needs that kind of striker, not Peter Crouch.

[Lickalotapuss]

Do you reckon McClaren will play 3-5-2 again? What a joke. I haven't seen that system used seriously since the 90's.
I'm not sure, thing is I reckon it could work with the right personnel.
In patches we played some decent footie through the middle but it was only in patches.
Imagine 3-5-2
Rio....Terry.....Carragger
Neville...Hargreaves...Lamps.....Gerrard.....Cole (either Ash or Joe)
Rooney....Owen

Decent team on paper and could cause massive problems to opposition if we worked it well. I'd have Neville on the right because if we had another midfielder (say Becks) I think that could be too attacking against a quality side, Neville will keep the balance between defence and attack and then Ash or Joe would have more license to attack.

I do think we need another system to play yes, whether this is the right one i'm not too sure, but we did try it out with a lot of our regular starting 11 missing.

[muse-]

bollocks thought cos it was former yugoslavian republic that it was acually the country lol, now i feel dumb :D

on that note paul robinson had a good game, 10/10 for effort

[Toadborg]

Imagine 3-5-2
Rio....Terry.....Carragger
Neville...Hargreaves...Lamps.....Gerrard.....Cole (either Ash or Joe)
Rooney....Owen



Replace Carragher with King and it would be better.

Carragher looked like he was going in Slow-mo last night....

[Kermit]

Parker was the best of the three, admittedly not tough, but there you go.

Carrick is mediocre at best, he's vastly overrated and vastly overhyped. He couldn't even cut it in the first division with West Ham. How novel to see Addict wowing over the Man Utd players (if anyone merits dropping on current form its Rooney, not Crouch...at least Crouch sticks the ball in the net against the crap teams, which is more than Rooney is doing) as if they're world beaters, and anyone who doesn't join in the daisychain is "clueless" about football. His passing ability is overhyped (he can't pass it half as well as Jenas, for instance) and his tackling ability is non-existant. Useful for a central midfielder. I honestly reckon Fergie paid £15m too much for him (he sure isn't one and a half times better than Ronaldo, and he isn't four times better than Parker).

No top team has played with 3-5-2 for ten years, there's a reason for that.

[Lickalotapuss]

Replace Carragher with King and it would be better.

Carragher looked like he was going in Slow-mo last night....
He did look slow I grant you that but I like him, hes a no nonsense get stuck in defender.
(if anyone merits dropping on current form its Rooney, not Crouch...at least Crouch sticks the ball in the net against the crap teams, which is more than Rooney is doing
You can't really argue with that at the minute. When Rooneys firing though he gets the nod before Crouch everytime but I agree at the minute Crouch could be the better option.
No top team has played with 3-5-2 for ten years, there's a reason for that.
How would you change it then?? I believe we need more than the plain 4-4-2, because we do need that 2nd option in my opinion, something we didn't have under sven. Sven had a plan A and when that didn't work we had no ideas left. I don't think we should ever start the game in a 3-5-2 (unless its a friendly to give lads practice) but we need another formation/option to change to when things are quite going our way and we need to look to push on. 4-5-1 is a possibilty aswell but this could be seen as more of a defensive option than attacking, also don't think the Roon can play a lone stricker but could be pushed out wide like he is for the Scum sometimes.

[Addict]

Parker was the best of the three, admittedly not tough, but there you go.

Carrick is mediocre at best, he's vastly overrated and vastly overhyped. He couldn't even cut it in the first division with West Ham. How novel to see Addict wowing over the Man Utd players (if anyone merits dropping on current form its Rooney, not Crouch...at least Crouch sticks the ball in the net against the crap teams, which is more than Rooney is doing) as if they're world beaters, and anyone who doesn't join in the daisychain is "clueless" about football. His passing ability is overhyped (he can't pass it half as well as Jenas, for instance) and his tackling ability is non-existant. Useful for a central midfielder. I honestly reckon Fergie paid £15m too much for him (he sure isn't one and a half times better than Ronaldo, and he isn't four times better than Parker).

Carrick was easily Tottenham's best player last season. Their team has gone to the dogs without him. IMO he was one of the best midfielders in the league last year and I admired his ability long before he signed for us. Stats would suggest he was the best passer in the league, ahead of Alonso, never mind Jermaine Jenas. Funny you should bring up Jenas - he epitomises the term 'overrated'.

We'll see how over-rated and over-priced Carrick is when he finds his feet at United. He's been getting better every game, and he will prove people like you wrong. It's futile comparing his price tag to people like Ronaldo and Parker. Ronaldo was a one-off bargain (though similarly many said £12m was too much) and parker got out of Chelsea on the cheap to piss poor Newcastle, much like Duff. Had either gone to a rival, you would have seen a much inflated price, fact.

Drop Rooney? Nice one.

[Lickalotapuss]

Drop Rooney? Nice one.
It'd be a tough decision to make but you have to admit he's done nothing these last two games and is a shade of what we come to expect from him. On current England form then Crouch is the man LOL can't believe am saying that over Rooney but its right.
But like I n others have said we still need that Owen type player up front which would make Roons game better also.

[Addict]

It'd be a tough decision to make but you have to admit he's done nothing these last two games and is a shade of what we come to expect from him. On current England form then Crouch is the man LOL can't believe am saying that over Rooney but its right.
But like I n others have said we still need that Owen type player up front which would make Roons game better also.

Can't you see the problem with Rooney is what you've been banging on about?

He needs an out and out striker to play with him, not Crouch.

Rooney drops deep and gives so much more to a team than goals, alot more than Crouch does anyway.

It's not like Crouch has done any more than Rooney in two games to justify a place ahead of him. He's been equally as bad, therefore you drop Crouch and use Rooney with a better partner.

Rooney hasn't even been playing that bad for United, people just overhype because he's not scoring and Ronaldo has been stealing the limelight. He's not at his all-conquering best, but that's no reason to drop him. I'd build the team around him, and that wouldn't include Crouch. I'd use him as an impact plan B sub.

[Lickalotapuss]

Ye your right. Something missing from Rooney though other than a different partner. His touch, vision, decisions all seemed very lax n slow n wrong. It'll come good again for him and then theirs no question who starts between him and Crouch.

[Kermit]

When both are on top form Rooney is better than Crouch, I'd agree with you.

The point is that Crouch is on better form than Rooney, and Rooney does not justify his selection at the moment. Crouch has faced the same problems- he needs someone to run off him- but Crouch has been at the heart of England's few attacking chances. The chance that Crouch gave to Rooney with his flick-on is a good example.

Johnson needs a good go at the team, its a shame he got injured because I would select him ahead of half-baked strikers like Defoe any day of the week.

I know the World Cup isn't a fair example for either player, but even before then I don't think Rooney and Owen was a partnership that was going to work.

[Lickalotapuss]

I know the World Cup isn't a fair example for either player, but even before then I don't think Rooney and Owen was a partnership that was going to work.
I think it could become a great partnership personally but we'll have to wait and see.