Two held in terror raid released

[Blagsta]

Two men arrested after a raid on a house in east London have been released without charge, Scotland Yard said.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/5066166.stm

[wheresmyplacebo]

just as thought

[Teh_Gerbil]

How unsupprising.

[Kentish]

Just like hundreds of others arrested and released without charge on that day - it means nothing. The shooting aside, this investigation was worthwhile imho. Police don't usually turn up uninvited without solid evidence or convincing leads.

[Blagsta]

Unfortunately, we can't put the shooting "aside" can we? That's 2 innocent people shot by the police in pursuit of the war on terror.

[Kentish]

Unfortunately, we can't put the shooting "aside" can we? That's 2 innocent people shot by the police in pursuit of the war on terror.
Of course, though releasing them from custody says less about their innocence and more about the police's inability to prove guilt.

Do you honestly think the police would risk this adverse publicity without a good lead?

[Teh_Gerbil]

Of course, though releasing them from custody says less about their innocence and more about the police's inability to prove guilt.

Do you honestly think the police would risk this adverse publicity without a good lead?

Perhpas they should check their leads then.

One innocent man, with no links at all to Islamic Terrorism is shot, dead.

This story seems more likley to be genuine but we cannot be sure. This is the lot that killed an innocent in the war on terror. An investigation not yet finished... sohuldn't we be donig MORE to hold them to account?

[Kentish]

Perhpas they should check their leads then.
You think they don't? You think they randomly pick on people who look a bit foreign? Get over yourself.
One innocent man, with no links at all to Islamic Terrorism is shot, dead.
Relevance?
This story seems more likley to be genuine but we cannot be sure. This is the lot that killed an innocent in the war on terror. An investigation not yet finished... sohuldn't we be donig MORE to hold them to account?
We should be doing plenty to bring those who plotted 7/7 and who continue to plot repeated atrocities to account, yes. We should also ensure that those who are doing the intelligence and law enforcement work are doing it properly and within the law, of course. These two points needn't be mutually exclusive aims.

[Blagsta]

Of course, though releasing them from custody says less about their innocence and more about the police's inability to prove guilt.

Do you honestly think the police would risk this adverse publicity without a good lead?

I think they need to check their intelligence more carefully. Jean Charles de Menezes ring any bells with you?

[Kentish]

I think they need to check their intelligence more carefully.
I don't disagree. They should also be thoroughly investigating credible leads.
Jean Charles de Menezes ring any bells with you?
That was a dreadful, dreadful mistake. I don't see the relevance to this case.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2659133.stm

[Blagsta]

I don't disagree. They should also be thoroughly investigating credible leads.

That was a dreadful, dreadful mistake. I don't see the relevance to this case.

You don't see the relevance of two cases where crappy intelligence led to people getting shot? Really? How odd. :confused:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2659133.stm

Now, I don't see the relevance of that.

[Teh_Gerbil]

That was a dreadful, dreadful mistake. I don't see the relevance to this case.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2659133.stm

Erm, why don't you? So.. anti terrorism... people get shot... one innocent has died already... don't you think thats a bit dodgey? The terrible state of affairs and idsorganisation, with the people ment to protect us?

[Blagsta]

...not to mention possibly giving more cause to Islamicist nutters.

[Disillusioned]

Until the full facts of this case are more clearly established (as in the exact events resulting in one of the brothers getting shot in the raid) it's a bit pointless speculating or taking cheap shots at the police. As has been said hundreds of people are released without charge, it's not particularly noteworthy except for the shooting. (And since we don't know the full facts about that yet...) Still for some people any chance to attack the police I suppose. The police are invariably in a difficult position, they have to follow intelligence up. (Look what happened when they didn't...Mohammad Sidique Khan the leader of the 7/7 terrorists was not properly investigated despite being known to police).

[Kentish]

You don't see the relevance of two cases where crappy intelligence led to people getting shot? Really? How odd. :confused:
The circumstances were entirely different. The only link is the fact that they were terror suspects. One shot without warningon unreliable ID , one shot by mistake during a struggle with armed officers.
Now, I don't see the relevance of that.
You don't see the relevance of the murder of an unarmed police officer on an anti-terror raid?

[Blagsta]

The circumstances were entirely different. The only link is the fact that they were terror suspects. One shot without warningon unreliable ID , one shot by mistake during a struggle with armed officers.

Both were failings in intelligence, followed by police misinformation in an attempt to cover their arses.

You don't see the relevance of the murder of an unarmed police officer on an anti-terror raid?

No. Explain.

[Kentish]

...not to mention possibly giving more cause to Islamicist nutters.
...who seemingly jump on any chance to make threats, from Iraq to Bradford.

[Kentish]

Both were failings in intelligence, followed by police misinformation in an attempt to cover their arses.
That remains to be seen. The circumstances of the shootings were entirely different.
No. Explain.
:confused:

The police go in unarmed and they get murdered; they go in armed and let off a shot during a struggle and they are to blame for using faulty intelligence.

What's your underlying point?

[Blagsta]

That remains to be seen. The circumstances of the shootings were entirely different.

Not that different. Failing of intelligence and trigger happy cops. Seems quite similar to me.

:confused:

The police go in unarmed and they get murdered; they go in armed and let off a shot during a struggle and they are to blame for using faulty intelligence.

"let off a shot during a struggle"? You sure?

Mr Kahar's solicitor, Kate Roxburgh, said detectives conducted a "preliminary interview" with her client on Monday evening and she expected more questioning on Tuesday.

Earlier, she said he was "very coherent" and "very clear what happened", adding that "there was no struggle" with armed officers.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/5049800.stm

I also heard reports that the copper who shot the bloke was wearing thick gloves and pulled the trigger unaware that he had done so.

What's your underlying point?

That the police need to be less cavalier in such a sensitive situation. What's yours?

[Kentish]

That the police need to be less cavalier in such a sensitive situation. What's yours?
That they do a thankless task, and I'm glad that they do.

ps What do you expect the suspect to say? That he tried to fight his way out and got shot in the process? Even an idiot would blame the police, let alone an intelligent alleged chemical bomber.

[Blagsta]

That they do a thankless task, and I'm glad that they do.

ps What do you expect the suspect to say? That he tried to fight his way out and got shot in the process? Even an idiot would blame the police, let alone an intelligent alleged chemical bomber.

Why would he lie? He's quite probably innocent. Seeing as the police lied their arses off after shooting de Menezes, I know who I believe.

[migpilot]

This is not about whether the police were right or wrong.
This is about enforcing the law in the right way, in a way that gives confidence to the people and not give doubts!!

Everyone knows that the police are at a disadvantage in normal life, when they patrol or whatever because they don't carry guns. They shouldn't be going into a situation they don't know.
I wouldn't go into a house not knowing whether whoever in there was armed or not.

The police here, the ones that are gun trained, or supposedly gun trained, they are not properly trained to deal with "live" situations. That's obvious to me. And that is not their fault.

Unless one of the guys had a knife or a gun there was no need to shoot.
I do agree that the police do a thankless task, but only because their bosses are dimwits!!

[Aladdin]

It's a fuck up at several levels. The only part of it where the police could be forgiven is the actual intelligence. I don't say I believe it for sure (how can you believe anything they say any more?) but if the police were given direct orders to intervene on account of a 'very reliable' source from MI5, they had little choice.

They however fucked up big time when they decided to make a show out of it, inviting TV crews and all and bringing 250 fucking coppers along.

And of course they fucked up even bigger time when they managed to shoot someone 'because they were wearing thick chemical gloves' and to add insult to injury attempted to blame the brother of the shot man for the shooting.

Heads should fucking roll. But then, heads should have rolled when a certain Brazilian electrician was shot 11 times in a tube carriage, and the only action we've seen so far was the copper who pulled the trigger being given an extra week's holiday, so I won't hold my breath.

[Blagsta]

The police are invariably in a difficult position, they have to follow intelligence up. (Look what happened when they didn't...Mohammad Sidique Khan the leader of the 7/7 terrorists was not properly investigated despite being known to police).

Yes another example of an intelligence fuck up. Rather proves my point I think.

[Man Of Kent]

It wasn't just these two people who were affected in this raid.

Anyone else read what the police did to their next door neighbours. If you are in any doubt about the heavy handed approach of the Police...

[Aladdin]

What did they do?

Let me guess... they tore down the wall or something?

[Man Of Kent]

I'm struggling to find a link right now, but they beat the neighbour when they entered his house too...